Free-Lance Police Inspection

[bendejo]

For a while our friends in brown were doing spot checks of foreigners in upper Sukhumvit, around Thonglor and Ekamai, searching bags, pockets, etc.

Is this still going on?

[ukrules]

From what I've heard, yes they are. They inspect pockets and wallets. I can only assume they're looking for drugs. Someone mentioned this to me only a few days ago when I was talking in a local bar.

If I remember correctly the guy I was talking to said it only generally happens when he's in the taxi on his own. If he had a Thai with him in the car then he wasn't stopped.

[Semper]

Is this still going on?

Why? Do you have something to hide?

[boggle]

Been happening for more years then I can remember. More thais then forigners for sure.

Thai friends have had to do piss tests in the Police boxes as well. Havent heard of a farang having to do this.

[richard_smith237]

Is this still going on?

Why? Do you have something to hide?

I really do believe that your avatar is actually a picture of you....

I'm guessing that given the reports of corruption being stopped by the BIB for a random search is quite a harrowing experience (although I have never heard of anything unfair occurring).

[rkidlad]

I got randomly pulled out of a taxi not too far from Narz nightclub once. It was the first and only time in 4 years here. 1 cop on his own just opened the door and signaled me to get out with his hands. He pulled my arms up and patted down my front and back pockets. He never actually put his hands inside. When he patted my fag packet he asked' 'What this?' to which I replied 'cigarettes'.

He just said 'okay' and that was it. It was weird because if I did have drugs he wouldn't have known 'cos he didn't search me properly. I had nothing to hide, but I was pissed off. The way he can just rudely pull me out alone in front of a girl and do as he pleases. Not too worry. He was alone. Who will the courts believe? Some low level scumbag cop. Or me, a law abiding tax paying foreigner. Actually, don't answer that. I'm still in my honeymoon period.

I just sarcastically said 'Well done'.

[givenall]

Is this still going on?

Why? Do you have something to hide?

This is a stupid question. No law aboding person would liketo give up his liberty to an authorities I know I would not like to be searchedwithout cause and I have never used of had drug in my life

[BigRick]

Honestly I would tell him NO just to make the guys life hell! Make him go through a ton of hassle especially if you have nothing to hide. Make a scene call the monkey out!

[Semper]

Is this still going on?

Why? Do you have something to hide?

This is a stupid question. No law aboding person would liketo give up his liberty to an authorities I know I would not like to be searchedwithout cause and I have never used of had drug in my life

Another reason to not leave your home/not to live in Bkk.

[Rumblecat]

Yeah, it's happened to me a few times in the past couple of years- most recently a couple of weeks ago. They've always been pretty good and polite about it- and I always carry a photocopy of my passport ID page and visa with me. Although the first time I was stopped they asked me where I was going and I told them (honestly) I was off to meet some friends in a bar to watch the football. They made me write down the name of the bar. I couldn't remember the name off the top of my head, so I just wrote down "Some sports bar". The policeman looked and it and nodded and said "Oh yes, I know that place."

It doesn't bother me that much- sure, I'd rather it didn't happen but as a foreigner living here I've been well aware of a long time that I don't have that many rights. Keep quiet, keep your nose clean, keep smiling.

[richard_smith237]

Is this still going on?

Why? Do you have something to hide?

This is a stupid question. No law aboding person would liketo give up his liberty to an authorities I know I would not like to be searchedwithout cause and I have never used of had drug in my life

Another reason to not leave your home/not to live in Bkk.

Quite.. in fact this has made me think of moving out of Bangkok. In the number of years living in Thailand I am in perpetual fear of being stopped searched by the BIB while walking down Sukhumvit rd. In fact I'm starting to suspect there is only one place on this planet where issues like this do not occur. The problem is, I suspect too many retards already live there...

[carbine1125]

Another reason to not leave your home/not to live in Bkk.

Quite.. in fact this has made me think of moving out of Bangkok. In the number of years living in Thailand I am in perpetual fear of being stopped searched by the BIB while walking down Sukhumvit rd. In fact I'm starting to suspect there is only one place on this planet where issues like this do not occur. The problem is, I suspect too many retards already live there...

we can always squeeze in one more!

[gkinbkk]

I got stopped driving down Suk 53 one Sat night a few months back.

Out of the car, empty pockets, empty wallet, flashlight around the car.

2 cops. They were extremely 'nice' about it. Asked where I was coming from and where was I going. Told me there was a big problem around Thong Lo with 'Dugs', did I mind if they had a look in the car and to make sure I watched them because some police 'no good, put dug in car'

Couple of mins I was on my way but yes, a bit dam_n scary, especially wanting to look around the car as the plant could have been on easily......

[impulse]

Being old enough to require a few various (legal) prescriptions throughout the day, I'm not looking forward to the first time this happens to me. Pockets can't hold all the prescription bottles separately, so I have them all in a single pill dispenser. I keep the appropriate prescription labels from Bumrungrad (sp?) in my wallet, but I can easily see a train wreck coming. Anybody experienced that and have any suggestions?

[bendejo]

A few years ago a TV member who lived in the area said some BiB types he hung out with said they were just doing this as a favor to the self-exiled former PM to make the current administration look bad. Talk about lousy excuses!

I believe this is only done in that area, and solely for the sake of pocket stuffing. Of course the copper will have a commanding officer (possibly watching from a distance) to see if he's making an effort. They have to pass the take up the line.

[Rumblecat]

But they're not taking money off people... or do you mean "pocket stuffing" if they do find something and want a bribe to look the other way?

[snorkster]

This is interesting. This hasn't ever happened to me.

Does anyone know what the law is? I.e., are they allowed to search you for no reason? You could refuse a search like this in the US. Do they have the authority to compel you to allow a spot-check search of your person for no reason?

If the answer is that they are not allowed to compel the search, I'll flatly refuse it if it ever happens to me. I don't do anything illegal and I won't have anything illegal on my person or in my urine, etc. However, I simply don't wish to comply with this nonsense.

If they are legally allowed to do it, then I guess I'd just have to comply.

But will be helpful to know beforehand what the law is. If the law is that they can't do it, I will tell them that and politely decline with a smile.

Edited October 5, 2011 by snorkster

[snorkster]

Honestly I would tell him NO just to make the guys life hell! Make him go through a ton of hassle especially if you have nothing to hide. Make a scene call the monkey out!

I would like to agree with this. However, the important piece of information which is missing is, is it legal for them to search without cause.

If the law says they can do it, there's no point in doing anything other than complying in a friendly fashion.

If the law says they can't, then I'd politely decline, smiling and saying no.

[Richard4849]

Honestly I would tell him NO just to make the guys life hell! Make him go through a ton of hassle especially if you have nothing to hide. Make a scene call the monkey out!

I would like to agree with this. However, the important piece of information which is missing is, is it legal for them to search without cause.

If the law says they can do it, there's no point in doing anything other than complying in a friendly fashion.

If the law says they can't, then I'd politely decline, smiling and saying no.

The Constitution says there must be cause, but your definition of cause and the officer's might not match. It could be that you merely look suspicious.

By declining an invitation to be searched, you have just provided even more "cause": it looks like you have something to hide.

Trust me, you don't want to get into an argument with a Thai cop on the street about Constitutional rights. If you can't cope with that, you need to find another country.

[richard_smith237]

As I understand it from a friend (RTP).

The police are not allowed to place their hands inside your pockets etc, but they can pat you down and can ask you to remove items from your pockets for further inspection.

The police are allowed to stop and question you given reasonable cause. This reasonable cause is highly subjective, the police will win this discussion.

You are well within your rights to refuse a search on the street and request to be taken to the station and searched in front of a witness there. Unlikely this will happen.

And most importantly: Most of the police do not know the law. The law according to them is what their supervisors do or have done, so if they have seen their supervisors stop a motorbike driver for having a red helmet on, they are likely to attempt the same and not accept that its ok for a motorbike driver to have a red helmet (silly example but it makes my point)...

I was stopped on a small dark sub-soi at about 2am a few years back near Thonglor. The police stopped the taxi and indicated me to wind my window down. I did by an inch. They asked me for my Passport, I wasn't carrying it so I simply replied 'No'.... The then asked me for ID, I was carrying a Thai DL but wasn't about to hand it over at 2am to two guys who may or may not be cops... so I said 'No'... They drove off without further issue....

My friend told me that in this situation, if they wanted to search me the best option would be to tell them to follow the taxi to the police station and they can question or search me in a lit area with witnesses.... Explaining this might be a little tricky however !!!

Edited October 5, 2011 by richard_smith237

[PattayaParent]

Honestly I would tell him NO just to make the guys life hell! Make him go through a ton of hassle especially if you have nothing to hide. Make a scene call the monkey out!

I would like to agree with this. However, the important piece of information which is missing is, is it legal for them to search without cause.

If the law says they can do it, there's no point in doing anything other than complying in a friendly fashion.

If the law says they can't, then I'd politely decline, smiling and saying no.

The Constitution says there must be cause, but your definition of cause and the officer's might not match. It could be that you merely look suspicious.

By declining an invitation to be searched, you have just provided even more "cause": it looks like you have something to hide.

Trust me, you don't want to get into an argument with a Thai cop on the street about Constitutional rights. If you can't cope with that, you need to find another country.

Or in the USA.

It's all well and good saying you can decline to be searched in the US but then what does the cop do?

Doff his hat and say sorry to have caused you an inconvenience, please accept my apologies?

Or are you more likely to find yourself in the back of a paddy wagon with a few big hairy arsed gorrillas for company?

[snorkster]

Honestly I would tell him NO just to make the guys life hell! Make him go through a ton of hassle especially if you have nothing to hide. Make a scene call the monkey out!

I would like to agree with this. However, the important piece of information which is missing is, is it legal for them to search without cause.

If the law says they can do it, there's no point in doing anything other than complying in a friendly fashion.

If the law says they can't, then I'd politely decline, smiling and saying no.

The Constitution says there must be cause, but your definition of cause and the officer's might not match. It could be that you merely look suspicious.

By declining an invitation to be searched, you have just provided even more "cause": it looks like you have something to hide.

Trust me, you don't want to get into an argument with a Thai cop on the street about Constitutional rights. If you can't cope with that, you need to find another country.

Do you have a citation for the constitutional restrictions on police search powers? I'd be curious to look at it.

I'm certainly capable of "coping" as you say, if it is warranted, however, before I conclude that it is warranted, I'm curious to know what real-life data people have. I am open to the possibility that it isn't worth it to decline a search. Thailand is known to be a pretty corrupt country. However, declining a search doesnt necessarily mean getting into an argument. One can decline a search politely, without being argumentative. That's a matter of social graces.

Has anyone had experience with declining a search from the police? If one were to ask them what the cause for the search was and request that they call their superior or the tourist police to review the cause, what would happen?

Again, I'm perfectly open to the answer being that this would be a bad idea, but I want to base this on some more data from people who have actually had experience doing it.

As far as declining a search in the USA is concerned, I did it once in New York, and it was no problem. Yes, they really do say ok have a nice day, then. They don't take it personally and get into a pissing contest with you, necessarily. It depends on attitude, I would assume. If you give them the finger and say no, you'll probably have problems. If you smile and ask whether or not compliance is mandatory, they may well say that it is not, and then you say you would prefer not to be searched.

I have also declined searches in Japan, twice. There are certain neighborhoods in Tokyo where they harass foreigners, under the theory that foreigners probably have drugs because they're foreigners, in that neighborhood, at 2 am. This has happened to me three times in Tokyo. The first time the cops in Japan did this to me, I complied with the search request as I have nothing against cops trying to do their jobs and I thought, what the heck, if they felt they had some reason to suspect me, I didn't mind them checking me out. However, when it became clear that this was a pattern of behavior on the part of the police, and after searching on the web and finding out it was a common experience for foreigners out late at night in certain areas, I decided not to go along with it any more. The next two times they randomly stopped me and asked me if they could search me for drugs or weapons, I simply said no.

It wound up being a hassle as they tried to pressure me into it for a while, and they were cheeky about things because I was discussing the law with them, and they were simply avoiding my questions about whether or not compliance was mandatory, but I just politely stood my ground and repeated that I was declining the search. Eventually said ok I can go.

It would have saved me time to comply with the search request, but I didn't wish to do so, I'm glad I declined the search, and I would do it again in the future.

So, I'd be interested in actual data about what occurs when one politely and non-argumentatively declines a search request. My gut instinct is that it would be a bad idea, but I don't have data on this. Has anyone actually done it, in a polite and congenial, non-argumentative fashion?

Edited October 5, 2011 by snorkster

[boggle]

Honestly I would tell him NO just to make the guys life hell! Make him go through a ton of hassle especially if you have nothing to hide. Make a scene call the monkey out!

Let us know how you go. Should be entertaining.

Seriously not a very smart thing to do here. Just smile let them do what they want and on your way.

Keep your nose clean and a smile keeps you out of trouble here.

Edited October 5, 2011 by boggle

[Semper]

I was stopped on a small dark sub-soi at about 2am a few years back near Thonglor. The police stopped the taxi and indicated me to wind my window down. I did by an inch. They asked me for my Passport, I wasn't carrying it so I simply replied 'No'.... The then asked me for ID, I was carrying a Thai DL but wasn't about to hand it over at 2am to two guys who may or may not be cops... so I said 'No'... They drove off without further issue....

Sure.

[zorro1]

hmmm a few posts about civil rights and comparisons to America. This is ridiculous, its a developing country and a pat down is a small price to pay in exchange for all the other benefits thailand has to offer right??

Why do people feel the need to Americanize Thailand

You cant have it both ways folks

[Richard4849]

Honestly I would tell him NO just to make the guys life hell! Make him go through a ton of hassle especially if you have nothing to hide. Make a scene call the monkey out!

I would like to agree with this. However, the important piece of information which is missing is, is it legal for them to search without cause.

If the law says they can do it, there's no point in doing anything other than complying in a friendly fashion.

If the law says they can't, then I'd politely decline, smiling and saying no.

The Constitution says there must be cause, but your definition of cause and the officer's might not match. It could be that you merely look suspicious.

By declining an invitation to be searched, you have just provided even more "cause": it looks like you have something to hide.

Trust me, you don't want to get into an argument with a Thai cop on the street about Constitutional rights. If you can't cope with that, you need to find another country.

Do you have a citation for the constitutional restrictions on police search powers? I'd be curious to look at it.

From the Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand.

Section 32. A person shall enjoy the right and liberty in his life and person.

A torture, brutal act or punishment by a cruel or inhumane means shall not be made; provided that punishment under judgments of the Courts or by virtue of the law shall not be deemed the punishment by a cruel or inhumane means under this paragraph.

Arrest and detention of person shall not be made except by order or warrant issued by the Courts or there is a ground as provided by the law.

Search of person or act affecting the right and liberty under paragraph one shall not be made except by virtue of the law.

In the case where there is an act affecting right and liberty under paragraph one, the injured person, public prosecutor or any person acting for the benefit of the injured person shall have the right to bring lawsuit to the Courts so as to stop or nullify such act and to impose appropriate measure to alleviate damage occurred therefrom.

Specific interpretation as it presents itself in day-to-day police operations would probably be included in police training guidelines, but I do not have access to those.

[bendejo]

Sure, being within your rights etc is one thing, but the copper can make your life miserable by dragging you through the judicial process, and the trumped-up charges etc will all be dismissed. In the meantime you've gone through time in jail, bail funds, draining your savings for lawyer fees, and the stress of dealing with it all. This can happen anywhere, especially in 'the land of the free.'

[Tokay]

Meanwhile, why they are harassing tourists, countless of Africans are selling drugs (and trafficking women) in the open on Soi 4, spreading down Suk in all directions.

[OM3N]

Was recently on a moto taxi from Carrefour Rama 4 (now Big C those bastards!)going to Kluaynamthai in full business attire midday. 2 motocops pulled us over, usually this is due to helmet infractions, but I had one supplied by my driver. I was pocket searched, and when asked where my passport was I replied in uber-polite Thai that I don't make a habit of carrying it around with me daily, as I don't want to risk losing it. They seemed satisfied and went on their way. I asked the motorcycle taxi dude if that was a common occurence and he replied "Those two cops always bother me." HAha such is life here. Was pretty strange though.

Edited October 7, 2011 by OM3N