Pheu Thai MPs Seek New Military

[webfact]

Pheu Thai MPs seek new military

THE NATION

The Pheu Thai Party has not decided whether it will seek to amend military provisions related to appointing top brass, but a number of its lawmakers are pushing for change, MP Phiraphan Phalusuk said yesterday.

"Under the Defence Ministry Administrative Act, the defence minister just serves as a rubber stamp, without any say in the military reshuffle," he said.

Phiraphan said that in his personal view, the government should have a say in the reshuffle of the top military commanders.

He dismissed concern that the legislative push to amend the provisions would trigger a coup, arguing that soldiers understand they are obligated to comply with government supervision, as in any democracy. He conceded, however, that he had no idea how long it would take for the amendment process to begin or to complete.

Pheu Thai MP Surasit Jiemvichuck said he supported the move to amend the military provisions because the existing legislation barred the prime minister from overseeing the military line-up.

The prime minister should have the mandate to oversee military affairs, he said. If the military or other government agencies can resist political supervision, then there was no point in electing a prime minister or forming a government to run the country, he said.

-- The Nation 2011-10-07

[whybother]

He dismissed concern that the legislative push to amend the provisions would trigger a coup, arguing that soldiers understand they are obligated to comply with government supervision, as in any democracy.

The difference being, that in "any democracy" there aren't the levels of political interference and corruption as there are in Thailand.

When the politicians can show that they don't want to interfere in the military for their own political purposes, then they can have more of a say in what happens.

[timekeeper]

this posturing regarding the military is intended only to try to protect the Thaksin PM clone and the red menace from a coup

but antagonizing them may have exactly the effect that they are trying to avoid.

lets not forget it is not only the reds who are still stinging from the deaths within their ranks............................

[animatic]

Actually, if they go beyond posturing this is the fastest route to a coup.

[somo]

So that's it then. Don't rock the boat or we'll have a coup.

Great

[OzMick]

So that's it then. Don't rock the boat or we'll have a coup.

Great

Actually, it's more to stop some Shinawatra relative getting conscripted, promoted to general within 6 months, then claiming seniority to be the next head of the armed forces.

Unlikely, you think? How about Chalerm's sprout getting promoted after going AWOL to dodge a murder charge?

[moe666]

So that's it then. Don't rock the boat or we'll have a coup.

Great

As usual whose boat are we rocking

[gl555]

I hope they do it. Push the military and force them to stage a coup.

[jonclark]

Should this come to pass we can all expect a general merry go round every time the government changes, just like we see now in the police force with Ponjamans brother in law NOW at the head. Sounds like a plan batman. Will it improve the current situation - who cares!!

Thailand - Nepotism at its finest !!

[animatic]

I hope they do it. Push the military and force them to stage a coup.

Problem is the next one will be push comes to shove,

and goes well past, on to mow them down.

There will be no flowers and the losers and their families will not fair well.

Sad to say they did it nice last time and it didn't take...

the kid gloves will be removed if it comes to pass this time.

Edited October 7, 2011 by animatic

[SICHONSTEVE]

"then there was no point in electing a prime minister or forming a government to run the country", he said.

They haven't and they aren't - they are only intent on getting a fugitive back in the country by underhand means!!!!

Running the country is incidental and a nuisance, clearly!!!!

Edited October 7, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[tragickingdom]

It is quite a simple ABC. The people are responsible military appointments. "The" people are the voters. If the Democrat party and dictators in spa like Anupong and Prayuth think different wise, they should be fired on the spot. One should ask why this absurd law was introduced in 2008 in the first place. Imagine when the American president or the elected members of congress would be told that they should shut up and that the military would sort out their own leadership. It is the world up side down in Thailand. OI THailand it are the military approving the government of the country.

[h90]

It is quite a simple ABC. The people are responsible military appointments. "The" people are the voters. If the Democrat party and dictators in spa like Anupong and Prayuth think different wise, they should be fired on the spot. One should ask why this absurd law was introduced in 2008 in the first place. Imagine when the American president or the elected members of congress would be told that they should shut up and that the military would sort out their own leadership. It is the world up side down in Thailand. OI THailand it are the military approving the government of the country.

Well here is not the USA (for example in American election the candidates don't pay everyone 50$ for their vote) and in the last say 10 years the military was the only reasonable organization in Thailand. Democratic or not democratic.

[ratcatcher]

For heaven's sake someone go out and buy PTP a new box of toy soldiers and some yellow submarines.

[SICHONSTEVE]

For heaven's sake someone go out and buy PTP a new box of toy soldiers and some yellow submarines.

You forgot the helicopters (or are they the same as submarines)??? I think they had better be "red" submarines as well, as yellow is not acceptable!!

[Payboy]

<snip> we can all expect a general merry go round every time the government changes <snip>

We're going to see a general - that's for sure. Won't be merry though.

[neboway]

It is quite a simple ABC. The people are responsible military appointments. "The" people are the voters. If the Democrat party and dictators in spa like Anupong and Prayuth think different wise, they should be fired on the spot. One should ask why this absurd law was introduced in 2008 in the first place. Imagine when the American president or the elected members of congress would be told that they should shut up and that the military would sort out their own leadership. It is the world up side down in Thailand. OI THailand it are the military approving the government of the country.

Well here is not the USA (for example in American election the candidates don't pay everyone 50$ for their vote) and in the last say 10 years the military was the only reasonable organization in Thailand. Democratic or not democratic.

..................

where have you been for the past 20 plus years , in the good ol USA the candidates get paid ( bought ) $ mill's by corporations , and they get to keep some of it for they're own sky rockets , whereby here as you say they pay everyone 50 $ for votes , now that what i call real democracy , because everyone get's to share the $ , and not just one ( the candidate )

[Crushdepth]

So that's it then. Don't rock the boat or we'll have a coup.

Great

The alternative is a totalitarian state.

[hellodolly]

So that's it then. Don't rock the boat or we'll have a coup.

Great

Have you a workable alternative or are you saying let Parliament run the army.

That is what they are seeking.

Personally I would like to see them help flood victims and do some thing about the cost of living.

A bit naive of me wouldn't you say.

But what can one expect of a government that has a leader in exile.

Edited October 8, 2011 by hellodolly

[animatic]

So that's it then. Don't rock the boat or we'll have a coup.

Great

Have you a workable alternative or are you saying let Parliament run the army.

That is what they are seeking.

Personally I would like to see them help flood victims and do some thing about the cost of living.

A bit naive of me wouldn't you say.

But what can one expect of a government that has a leader in exile.

No they are seeking the PM and his self appointed Defense Minister

having control over top brass appointments,

vs,

Soldiers going up the ranks based on merit, and not arbitrarily in these absurd annual reshuffles.

Basically in Thailand terms:

He who buys the election, also buys the right to control the army brass; do as I say or you're fired. Which removes the last vestiges of a countervailing force to total nepotism and totalitarism by a megalomaniac. In more normally run democratic country, this would not be a scary prospect... but TIT.

No doubt someone will come along and say I hope this will happen yada yada yada, not so. But I can see why it IS so here. Until they nail down harsh, REAL, checks and balances that apply to all players politicians especially this will not change.

[phiphidon]

No they are seeking the PM and his self appointed Defense Minister

having control over top brass appointments,

vs,

Soldiers going up the ranks based on merit, and not arbitrarily in these absurd annual reshuffles.

Basically in Thailand terms:

He who buys the election, also buys the right to control the army brass; do as I say or you're fired. Which removes the last vestiges of a countervailing force to total nepotism and totalitarism by a megalomaniac. In more normally run democratic country, this would not be a scary prospect... but TIT.

No doubt someone will come along and say I hope this will happen yada yada yada, not so. But I can see why it IS so here. Until they nail down harsh, REAL, checks and balances that apply to all players politicians especially this will not change.

"Soldiers going up the ranks based on merit, and not arbitrarily in these absurd annual reshuffles".

If this was the case in Thailand nobody would be worried. What actually happens in these absurd reshuffles is whoever is flavour of the day drags his classmates with him to populate the top positions.

Gen Prayuth on appointment under the Democrats almost immediately ordered the reshuffle of 229 (red leaning?) Senior Officers and replaced them with members of the Eastern Tigers and members of his old Pre - prep Class 12. Obviously, this benefitted the democrat party due to their close alignment and reliance upon the Army so the Defence Minister at the time was hardly likely to protest.

(Read more at http://asiancorrespo...new-army-chief/ )

The PTP win the election and not wishing to rock the boat for obvious reasons, keep Prayuth in place. Bearing in mind Prayuths role in the coup and the events of last year, previous utterings about not hating red shirts and exhorting the Thai people to vote for "the good guys", it seems that the PTP have been quite restrained.

So it doesn't seem to me strange that the Defence Minister of the PTP wishes to regain some control over the reshuffle. After all as Prayuth said

"Whatever can stabilise our country, go ahead and do it, the army will support it, but when our country is in jeopardy we will act,"

He didn't say what his definition of jeopardy was.............

[h90]

No they are seeking the PM and his self appointed Defense Minister

having control over top brass appointments,

vs,

Soldiers going up the ranks based on merit, and not arbitrarily in these absurd annual reshuffles.

Basically in Thailand terms:

He who buys the election, also buys the right to control the army brass; do as I say or you're fired. Which removes the last vestiges of a countervailing force to total nepotism and totalitarism by a megalomaniac. In more normally run democratic country, this would not be a scary prospect... but TIT.

No doubt someone will come along and say I hope this will happen yada yada yada, not so. But I can see why it IS so here. Until they nail down harsh, REAL, checks and balances that apply to all players politicians especially this will not change.

"Soldiers going up the ranks based on merit, and not arbitrarily in these absurd annual reshuffles".

If this was the case in Thailand nobody would be worried. What actually happens in these absurd reshuffles is whoever is flavour of the day drags his classmates with him to populate the top positions.

Gen Prayuth on appointment under the Democrats almost immediately ordered the reshuffle of 229 (red leaning?) Senior Officers and replaced them with members of the Eastern Tigers and members of his old Pre - prep Class 12. Obviously, this benefitted the democrat party due to their close alignment and reliance upon the Army so the Defence Minister at the time was hardly likely to protest.

(Read more at http://asiancorrespo...new-army-chief/ )

The PTP win the election and not wishing to rock the boat for obvious reasons, keep Prayuth in place. Bearing in mind Prayuths role in the coup and the events of last year, previous utterings about not hating red shirts and exhorting the Thai people to vote for "the good guys", it seems that the PTP have been quite restrained.

So it doesn't seem to me strange that the Defence Minister of the PTP wishes to regain some control over the reshuffle. After all as Prayuth said

"Whatever can stabilise our country, go ahead and do it, the army will support it, but when our country is in jeopardy we will act,"

He didn't say what his definition of jeopardy was.............

Actually what is wrong with replacing red officers? The army shouldn't take side with someone and specially not with someone who tried to burn down Bangkok.

[animatic]

Get rid of the arbitrary ,military reshuffles and the opportunity to lard in your old boy network is automatically reduced significantly.

[phiphidon]

No they are seeking the PM and his self appointed Defense Minister

having control over top brass appointments,

vs,

Soldiers going up the ranks based on merit, and not arbitrarily in these absurd annual reshuffles.

Basically in Thailand terms:

He who buys the election, also buys the right to control the army brass; do as I say or you're fired. Which removes the last vestiges of a countervailing force to total nepotism and totalitarism by a megalomaniac. In more normally run democratic country, this would not be a scary prospect... but TIT.

No doubt someone will come along and say I hope this will happen yada yada yada, not so. But I can see why it IS so here. Until they nail down harsh, REAL, checks and balances that apply to all players politicians especially this will not change.

"Soldiers going up the ranks based on merit, and not arbitrarily in these absurd annual reshuffles".

If this was the case in Thailand nobody would be worried. What actually happens in these absurd reshuffles is whoever is flavour of the day drags his classmates with him to populate the top positions.

Gen Prayuth on appointment under the Democrats almost immediately ordered the reshuffle of 229 (red leaning?) Senior Officers and replaced them with members of the Eastern Tigers and members of his old Pre - prep Class 12. Obviously, this benefitted the democrat party due to their close alignment and reliance upon the Army so the Defence Minister at the time was hardly likely to protest.

(Read more at http://asiancorrespo...new-army-chief/ )

The PTP win the election and not wishing to rock the boat for obvious reasons, keep Prayuth in place. Bearing in mind Prayuths role in the coup and the events of last year, previous utterings about not hating red shirts and exhorting the Thai people to vote for "the good guys", it seems that the PTP have been quite restrained.

So it doesn't seem to me strange that the Defence Minister of the PTP wishes to regain some control over the reshuffle. After all as Prayuth said

"Whatever can stabilise our country, go ahead and do it, the army will support it, but when our country is in jeopardy we will act,"

He didn't say what his definition of jeopardy was.............

Actually what is wrong with replacing red officers? The army shouldn't take side with someone and specially not with someone who tried to burn down Bangkok.

If you read the Asian Correspondent piece you'll find there is an opinion that if the Army hierarchy comprises a mix of officers from different pre-prep classes and loyalties there is less of a chance of a coup occuring which is pretty obvious if you think about it. If , as Animatic said, Officers were promoted on merit only, there would be less chance of a preponderance of officers of one flavour or another being in the ascendancy and more chance of the RTA doing what it is supposed to be doing i.e defence of the country and not getting involved in politics. Checks and balances need to be put in place to prevent the tail wagging the dog as has been the case in the past - why do you think there is all the fuss over the revisiting of Article 36 of the constitution - the one about the past present and future amnesty of military personnel involved in coups?

[h90]

If you read the Asian Correspondent piece you'll find there is an opinion that if the Army hierarchy comprises a mix of officers from different pre-prep classes and loyalties there is less of a chance of a coup occuring which is pretty obvious if you think about it. If , as Animatic said, Officers were promoted on merit only, there would be less chance of a preponderance of officers of one flavour or another being in the ascendancy and more chance of the RTA doing what it is supposed to be doing i.e defence of the country and not getting involved in politics. Checks and balances need to be put in place to prevent the tail wagging the dog as has been the case in the past - why do you think there is all the fuss over the revisiting of Article 36 of the constitution - the one about the past present and future amnesty of military personnel involved in coups?

But as you can clearly see at the police force: it is not about mix the classes or checks and balances. Thaksin tried to push in his class, relatives and friends. Now they try the same at the army. Unfortunately is defending the country ALWAYS also getting involved in politics. If it is only trying to secure a sufficient budget or protecting the country against internal enemies, like at the last coup. The army has to protect the COUNTRY and not the Shinawatra clan.

[gl555]

Until the day comes in this country when corrupt and inept politicians can be handled and brought to justice by the courts or Parliament, I'm happy to have an independant Army that reports only to His Majesty and who will stage a coup if a Prime Minister gets TOO corrupt and dirty. Checks and balances. Since the judiciary and the legislative branches can't seem to do much against certain people in the executive chair, it's good to have a back up in the military.

[otherstuff1957]

Well, it sounds like everything is going according to plan:

1. PM Yingluck - check

2. Pojemon's brother in charge of police - check

3. Chaiyasit Shinawatra in charge of the army - in progress

4. Brother-in-law and ex-PM Somchai as head of the Supreme Court - in progress

5. Triumphant return - TBA

[animatic]

Well, it sounds like everything is going according to plan:

1. PM Yingluck - check

2. Pojemon's brother in charge of police - check

3. Chaiyasit Shinawatra in charge of the army - in progress

4. Brother-in-law and ex-PM Somchai as head of the Supreme Court - in progress

5. Triumphant return - TBA

And coup to take them all out at once,

after luring T back into their hands.

Or not...

but this is more than a little plausible.

[Crushdepth]

I had hoped Thaksin had learned, but he hasn't. This government is doomed and its their own stupid fault.

[JAG]

I note many looking forward to a coup, with varying degrees of relish. You may dislike (detest) the current governement, and loathe it's every action, but does it mean nothing to you that they were elected less than three months ago. Everyone knows that they intended to allow Thaksin to return, everyone knew that they were going to redress the balance of power / put their own people in power within the military. Prior to the election they argued that the military and judiciary were biased against them. They were elected, they have a mandate.They are doing what they said they would do. A coup would be wrong, especially as the last two trucks in the convoy to roll out of the barracks would be carrying the Democrats (remember them, they lost the election) to form the replacement government!

Edited October 9, 2011 by JAG