1,000 Boats To Push Flood Waters From Chao Phraya River

[ratcatcher]

You need Moses here to sort out the problem, NOT 1000's of boats.....

BUT

even with Moses, as soon as he put his arms down the waters went back to their previous level drowning everybody

Next plan please.

Let's not forget that Moses will need a visa AND a work permit.

[BabySun]

This project is nothing original.People use pumps to pump water in irrigation etc.since milleniums.Look on some post cards from Holland or VanGogh pictures - you will see wind mills doing the same job,in India even today - they use cattle.

Just open your minds and you will see these boats as pumps.Each express boat is ....50kW? times 1000? it is 50(fifty)(MW) megawatts,this is quite a number.,it can change dynamic of the flow.

[JAS21]

Do we not think that this could be a bit of a PR Exercise.....although there is little that can be done.....seeing to be doing something is better than seeing to be doing nothing.....if the flooding is not as bad as it is forecast to be then 'yes we did it!' would be the cry. I'd actually be surprised if even this minister thinks that it will have any effect.

[indothai]

This project is nothing original.People use pumps to pump water in irrigation etc.since milleniums.Look on some post cards from Holland or VanGogh pictures - you will see wind mills doing the same job,in India even today - they use cattle.

Just open your minds and you will see these boats as pumps.Each express boat is ....50kW? times 1000? it is 50(fifty)(MW) megawatts,this is quite a number.,it can change dynamic of the flow.

A lot of people don't think it will work because of the lack of details...I don't blame them.. I don't think it'll work either.

- 1000 boats?.. what type? engine size? propeller size?

- Where will they place them?

- 1000 boats running full steam all at the same time? or will they alternate, 500 now then 500 later?

I believe 1000 boats can do the job, but it's got to be serious boats, I have not seen one in Thailand and I believe it's got to be Nuclear Powered.

More important question(s), has anyone figured out the flow rate of the river?

[Crushdepth]

This project is nothing original.People use pumps to pump water in irrigation etc.since milleniums.Look on some post cards from Holland or VanGogh pictures - you will see wind mills doing the same job,in India even today - they use cattle.

Just open your minds and you will see these boats as pumps.Each express boat is ....50kW? times 1000? it is 50(fifty)(MW) megawatts,this is quite a number.,it can change dynamic of the flow.

Maybe in a rice field irrigation canal. But in a river with 5,000 cubic metres per second running through it - it's a joke. I just went down and had a look at some of the tugs in action. It's ridiculous.

[Payboy]

You need Moses here to sort out the problem, NOT 1000's of boats.....

BUT

even with Moses, as soon as he put his arms down the waters went back to their previous level drowning everybody

Next plan please.

Let's not forget that Moses will need a visa AND a work permit.

And being from the middle east, he wouldn't be received well outside of Nana.

[skippybangkok]

I got it ! Since the water table is sinking, and bangkok is sinking - pump it underground !

[Soutpeel]

I got it ! Since the water table is sinking, and bangkok is sinking - pump it underground !

Not as daft as it sounds...water flood systems...ie re-injection of produced water into oil & gas wells is a pretty established practice in the industry...

Would it work on this scale.....dont know..

[SantiSuk]

You people just don't understand Thai culture at all.

The point is not whether it works at all but that something is seen to be done which makes the politicians feel better and the people involved in the (useless) exercise feel very important. Everyone can go home for a day feeling their chests puffed out a bit and status enhanced

Gotta love it here

[MaxYakov]

This project is nothing original.People use pumps to pump water in irrigation etc.since milleniums.Look on some post cards from Holland or VanGogh pictures - you will see wind mills doing the same job,in India even today - they use cattle.

Just open your minds and you will see these boats as pumps.Each express boat is ....50kW? times 1000? it is 50(fifty)(MW) megawatts,this is quite a number.,it can change dynamic of the flow.

Maybe in a rice field irrigation canal. But in a river with 5,000 cubic metres per second running through it - it's a joke. I just went down and had a look at some of the tugs in action. It's ridiculous.

Yes, it's like Obama's 'jobs saved' through whatever action was taken by the government. Any claimed result cannot be disproved just as with any claimed 'flooding lessened' by using boats to increase water velocity.

Edited October 9, 2011 by MaxYakov

[mgreijm]

everyone should go to the river ,fill up and take home a bucket of water and flush it down their toilet ......

555555 ladies and gents, the next Ploppie!!! LOL

[Skywalker69]

From the Thai press today:

"Mr. Plotprasop said that, the method of spreading the water out into the Gulf of Thailand, will employ 1000 ships to push the water, and the Security Center is confident that the water level will definitely decrease."

So there.

And this guys are running a country, my ooohhh my. bet they can´t even run a kindergarden!!!

[gl555]

It may be stupid and it may not work but at least they're trying to do something. It's better then having the whole country flood and still have time to officially open a district office!

[EyesWideOpen]

Let's inject a bit of physics here.....The Chao Praya is flowing at 3900 metric tons per second according to the Nation newspaper. According to Deputy Director-General for the Royal Irrigation Department Weera Wongsaengnark, the flow rate is 3.22 billion metric tons of water per second. This according to an article in the TAN network. Clearly they are getting their information from different sources..... But the bottom line is this. This is whole lot of water moving at about 5 or 6 knots I am guessing. The sheer mass of this water on a one second basis is boggling, were you to calculate the kilograms of energy produced by this flowing mass of water. For the " science minister" to think for a millisecond that some running boats tied up to bridge pilings are going to affect this mass is beyond bizarre. I think he needs to attend some high school physics classes, and study Newton's Laws.. Think their plans to appeal to the mercy of the water goddess will have far more effect.....

[ginjag]

You people just don't understand Thai culture at all.

The point is not whether it works at all but that something is seen to be done which makes the politicians feel better and the people involved in the (useless) exercise feel very important. Everyone can go home for a day feeling their chests puffed out a bit and status enhanced

Gotta love it here

Bring in the aircraft carrier--for power water push.

[Spalpeen]

If you read the OP again you'll note that the minister believes that his 1,000 boat cunning plan will treble the speed at which the river flows. Imagine the Chao Phraya in flood, and then imagine it flowing three times faster. It's not hard to see the flaw in this plan - it would wash away everything between Bangkok and the sea.

Better to stick with praying - safer.

[ratcatcher]

I am wondering if the 1000 vessels, boats or ships that are proposed to be located at the mouth of the Chao Phraya to speed up flow will be filmed so that Thai people can all see on TV what sort of results this project achieves.

I am one of the people, who among many on this forum, doubts the practicality of this idea, but I am always willing to be proved wrong.

I am sure the esteemed Science Minister will be out there urging the river on.

[siampolee]

Just been talking to a friend in the U.K. Seems as if the news has hit the press and indeed Thailand is a laughing stock due to Plod the plop within the U.K and Europe in general.

Bring on the clowns.

[Credo]

Wouldn't it have been wiser to use all those boats and all that fuel to dredge out some of the khlongs and maybe even deepen the delta area?

[MikeOboe57]

This plan would work, if water was a frictionless fluid, which of course it isn't.

What will most likely happen is:

- a shallow layer of water will receive a temporary speed boost.

- the friction with the surrounding water layers will slow it down within a few hundred meters at best.

- the result will be a more or less stationary wave of 50cm to 1m (just guessing), which will spill over the banks.

- the enormous bubble stream of 1000 cavitating propellers will most probably sink those boats in the rear rows.

At least it will be interesting to watch

Edit: typo

Edited October 9, 2011 by MikeOboe57

[siampolee]

Two problems there Credo and two talents as rare as hens teeth..

"Forward planning" that led or would have led to . "Proactive actions."

[slapout]

Give the man some credit, his tenure as expert at Night Safari in CM, is/was not know for its success, his beginning as Minister of Science may raise more questions as to his capability/thought process, but he does seem to have a knack for accumulating money while being employed in the various government positions. Seems he may be adapt at making room for himself at the trough of Thai politics.

[Buchholz]

Give the man some credit, his tenure as expert at Night Safari in CM, is/was not know for its success, his beginning as Minister of Science may raise more questions as to his capability/thought process, but he does seem to have a knack for accumulating money while being employed in the various government positions. Seems he may be adapt at making room for himself at the trough of Thai politics.

ah yes, worth remembering this "Ideas Guy" is the richest Cabinet Minister... nearly a billion...

The richest, Science Minister Plodprasop Suraswadi, has Bt963 million

[rubl]

It seems also our dear PM Yingluck doesn't have too much faith in this project. Today before meeting the Defence Minister and Armed Forces Chiefs she seems to have said that the government cannot prevent floods in all areas as there is too much water. Only those areas that can be prevented will be strengthened, while in other areas people will be evacuated to high grounds such as temporary refuge centres or even army barracks in Saraburi.

So now it's official: "there's too much water"

If it wasn't so serious and disastrous I'd be tempted to announce another hub "Bangkok, Venice of South-East Asia"

Edited October 9, 2011 by rubl

[Buchholz]

Just been talking to a friend in the U.K. Seems as if the news has hit the press and indeed Thailand is a laughing stock due to Plod the plop within the U.K and Europe in general.

Bring on the clowns.

Australia's been informed of the comedic matter...

In a desperate attempt to speed up the flow of water before peak tides, officials have assembled a fleet of 1000 boats they will use to try to push water faster out to sea.

Read more:

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/environment/weather/bangkok-on-alert-as-waters-rise-20111009-1lfq7.html#ixzz1aI7UQe00

Brisbane Times

[MaxYakov]

I am wondering if the 1000 vessels, boats or ships that are proposed to be located at the mouth of the Chao Phraya to speed up flow will be filmed so that Thai people can all see on TV what sort of results this project achieves.

I am one of the people, who among many on this forum, doubts the practicality of this idea, but I am always willing to be proved wrong.

I am sure the esteemed Science Minister will be out there urging the river on.

That's the beauty of the 1000-vessel plan/hypothesis/experiment. It would be difficult to falsify it, like AGW. Don't forget the 'Holy Beings' that have been beseeched lately. He might need them. If Physics fails then bring in the HBs.

[TAWP]

Imagine the kinetic energy that currently floods past the boats as they sit tied in the rivers. Now imagine how much energy the propellers have to spend to double that...

Not even taking into account what it would do down-stream to embankments and houses in the risk-zone.

[morphic]

To accurately estimate the impact of this large mass of boats on the flow of water through the river we would need to simulate it properly as fluid flow problem subject to moving obstacles and boundaries. Who, knows, maybe they are right, but id liove to see supporting arguments and evidence.

But my guess is it won't cause the water to drain faster. To drain three times faster as claimed, that vast mass of water needs to be provided with a gigantic energy boost. The existing flow of water has attained its kinetic energy from the potential energy of having previously been at a greater height, i.e., gravity. To move a huge mass of water three times faster we would have to believe, to start with, that these 1000 boats were somehow going to transfer that energy to the water, either by pushing the water or otherwise. As we are talking about billions of cubic metres of water the energy required would be huge. Even if the boats started with sufficnet energy they also need to transfer the energy efficiently in the required direction, i.e,., downsteam rather than to the sides or into useless churning turbulence. But I doubt the energy required from the boats would be available and I doubt the transfer mechanism would be efficient. So, I would be surprised if this project achieves its objective. More likely is that it will in fact lead to undesirable, unintended consequences, i.e., make the problem worse.

[wana]

Not even taking into account what it would do down-stream to embankments and houses in the risk-zone.

i would not like to be in a ground floor condo on the banks of the river when 1000 large boats all turn on their propellars ...............when 1 longtail river taxi boat drives down it creates a wave that hits and splashes off both banks

somebody didnt think this through ..............

[MaxYakov]

Maybe we should get an additional two translations from the original Thai, if there is any.

Back to the internet search to see if there's ever been a precedent for this approach anyplace, anytime, anyriver.

Edited October 9, 2011 by sbk
Bkk post doesn't allow links or quotes.