Rememberance Day

[robitusson]

I'm starting this on a new thread to keep it off the respectful thread dealing with this. Firstly the soldiers who died in WW1 were either forced to go under threat of jail or brain-washd into thinking it was in their own interests. Secondly when they did go, they killed, maimed and bombed millions of others just like them as well as countless civilians. Thirdly and most importantly, they were fighting for the interests of the ruling elite and royalty of Europe whose only concern at the time was to take over and colonise as much of the rest of the world as they could, which they did, enslaving countless people for generations and murdering millions all over the planet. I'm not just trying to be contoversial. Admitting that the people who died in those wars died pointlessly is a hard admission to make but it has to be said.

[zaz]

I agree. I don't see the point of Remembrance Day at all. In fact I think it's a complete hypocracy to comemorate wars and the dead while wars and mindless killing continues even today. I'm glad younger people have little interest in this commemoration and soon it will just disappear. Total pompous rubbish.

[Thomas_Merton]

I'm starting this on a new thread to keep it off the respectful thread dealing with this. Firstly the soldiers who died in WW1 were either forced to go under threat of jail or brain-washd into thinking it was in their own interests. Secondly when they did go, they killed, maimed and bombed millions of others just like them as well as countless civilians. Thirdly and most importantly, they were fighting for the interests of the ruling elite and royalty of Europe whose only concern at the time was to take over and colonise as much of the rest of the world as they could, which they did, enslaving countless people for generations and murdering millions all over the planet. I'm not just trying to be contoversial. Admitting that the people who died in those wars died pointlessly is a hard admission to make but it has to be said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nobody is discussing politics - just remembering.

Anyone's death in war is a sacrifice - whatever the reasons.

And there are no resonable reasons for war - war is the absolute in unreasonableness.

So kindly keep your thoughts to yourself, today, and remember those who are better than any of us.

Edited November 11, 2005 by Thomas_Merton

[Sir Burr]

I'm starting this on a new thread to keep it off the respectful thread dealing with this. Firstly the soldiers who died in WW1 were either forced to go under threat of jail or brain-washd into thinking it was in their own interests. Secondly when they did go, they killed, maimed and bombed millions of others just like them as well as countless civilians. Thirdly and most importantly, they were fighting for the interests of the ruling elite and royalty of Europe whose only concern at the time was to take over and colonise as much of the rest of the world as they could, which they did, enslaving countless people for generations and murdering millions all over the planet. I'm not just trying to be contoversial. Admitting that the people who died in those wars died pointlessly is a hard admission to make but it has to be said.

What a crock of shit! Maybe you should study history.

Firstly, in the first world war, the recruiting stations at the beginning of the war were overwhelmed. Admittedly, nobody had any idea at the time of the horrors ahead.

Secondly, relatively few civilians died in that war. The first "total war" was the second world war.

And to Zaz,

The reason you are free today is because of the sacrifices made by soldiers fighting tyranny in the second world war. You owe them a debt you can never hope to repay.

You two guys make me sick!! I hope the mods close down this thread that is so disrespectful to the millions that died to ensure the freedoms you enjoy today.

I can't believe that anybody could be so stupid as to start this thread on this day of all days.

Edited November 11, 2005 by Sir Burr

[zaz]

With all due respect, I think we can have a civilised discussion here.

No-one can say what would have happened if the wars didn't take place. We can make all sorts of scenarios up. The reason we are free today is because of the sacrifices of all those soldiers? I'm not sure. All wars are wrong and I think it's wrong that any soldier should die from any side. Today I don't think the world is any better than it was 60-70 years ago as far as aggressors go. We seem not learn anything from history.

Edited November 11, 2005 by zaz

[Thomas_Merton]

The reason you are free today is because of the sacrifices made by soldiers fighting tyranny in the second world war. You owe them a debt you can never hope to repay.

You two guys make me sick!! I hope the mods close down this thread that is so disrespectful to the millions that died to ensure the freedoms you enjoy today.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said.

[taxexile]

yes well said sir burr , without the sacrifices made by the millions of those who fought and died in the last century , our lives would be very different , look at the war torn regions of the world today and imagine growing up and trying to live like that , look at the poor iraqi people , look at what the cambodians went through , look at the tribal warfare that is forever flaring up in africa.

only by studying history can you understand the mistakes that were made usually by politicians , and the sacrifices called upon by the average man to rectify those ego driven or stupidity driven mistakes and the knowledge gained from that study and analysis will hopefully help you make better choices today and tomorrow as to who is in power.

these are crazy times in the world right now , and my feeling is its all slowly but surely building up to a big showdown in the possibly not too distant future , depends whos in charge on all sides of course.

what has happened in the past is a good guide as to what may happen in the future.

do not forget what happened , and never forget those who gave their all trying to stop it.

Edited November 11, 2005 by taxexile

[daleyboy]

The only time i will agree with Merton.

To the op and zaz Show some respect for those that fell to defend yours and my freedom.

I agree all war shouldnt happen, but sometimes there are no options.

Do you think Hitler would be happy to sit down and talk about his problem with Jews. Of course not he was intent on killing as many people as possible and the only way to stop this man was by going to war.

Grow up and keep your opinions to yourself, there not wanted here.

[Jeff1]

Thank you all who served .

[Davey]

I'm starting this on a new thread to keep it off the respectful thread dealing with this. Firstly the soldiers who died in WW1 were either forced to go under threat of jail or brain-washd into thinking it was in their own interests. Secondly when they did go, they killed, maimed and bombed millions of others just like them as well as countless civilians. Thirdly and most importantly, they were fighting for the interests of the ruling elite and royalty of Europe whose only concern at the time was to take over and colonise as much of the rest of the world as they could, which they did, enslaving countless people for generations and murdering millions all over the planet. I'm not just trying to be contoversial. Admitting that the people who died in those wars died pointlessly is a hard admission to make but it has to be said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a crock of shit! Maybe you should study history.

Firstly, in the first world war, the recruiting stations at the beginning of the war were overwhelmed. Admittedly, nobody had any idea at the time of the horrors ahead.

Secondly, relatively few civilians died in that war. The first "total war" was the second world war.

And to Zaz,

The reason you are free today is because of the sacrifices made by soldiers fighting tyranny in the second world war. You owe them a debt you can never hope to repay.

You two guys make me sick!! I hope the mods close down this thread that is so disrespectful to the millions that died to ensure the freedoms you enjoy today.

I can't believe that anybody could be so stupid as to start this thread on this day of all days.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said Sir Burr !! To Zaz who claims that the younger generation have little interest in remembrance day... I'm 19 and I for one am incredibly grateful and indebted to my forefathers who sacrificed their today to ensure our tommorrow, I think you should be too !!

Edited November 11, 2005 by Davey

[daleyboy]

Yep its not only the older blokes on here who appreciate what our elders did for us. I am 29 and have remembered the fallen every year for as long as i can remember.

Edited November 11, 2005 by daleyboy

[Morden]

I agree with the OP. Wars are usually about protecting commercial interests; that's why we see images of armed forces personnel rushing to protect oil pipelines while innocent civilians are blown to pieces elsewhere. Thailand suffered during WWII only because one country wanted access across it to reach another country so that it could take military, political and economic control.

However, there are other reasons for some wars that we may regard as more acceptable. If the Allies had not resisted Hitler's advances in Europe, many more innocent lives would have been lost. I dare say that very few Thai wives would be living in Europe today. Having said that, WWII would not have even been possible if the world's major banks had not funded (and profited from) the arming of both sides.

I cannot agree that the observance of Remebrance or Veterans' Day is hypocritical. We each have our own reasons for observing it. My reasons are:

1. To honour the lives of those who made sacrifices believing that they were for the good of their own countries and for humanity.

2. To reflect on how different the lives of my relatives and me might have been if there had been no wars - no killings, no maimings, no bombings of my home town.

I abhor the greedy, manipulative architects of war but I respect the trusting and innocent people who laid down their lives for what the were told was a just cause.

Compare the attitude of many Thais with the greedy attitude of the natives of certain Western states. Also note how many wars those states have involved themselves in compared with Thailand.

[rio666uk]

normally i tend to stay away from topics that have all the hallmarks of turning into a flaming match... but i think SirBurr, TM & Tax have made good points here, that will hopefully end the thread before we get page long diatribes about the pros and cons of war.

ill leave you to it.

[Sir Burr]

With all due respect, I think we can have a civilised discussion here.

No-one can say what would have happened if the wars didn't  take place.  We can make all sorts of scenarios up.  The reason we are free today is because of the sacrifices of all those soldiers?  I'm not sure.  All wars are wrong and I think it's wrong that any soldier should die from any side.  Today I don't think the world is any better than it was 60-70 years ago as far as aggressors go.  We seem not learn anything from history.

I was going to give you a history lesson. About the origins of WW I and how that led to WW II which led to the cold war. But really it can all be summed up in one sentence.

Freedom is worth fighting for and if necessary, dying for.

[TAWP]

The reason you are free today is because of the sacrifices made by soldiers fighting tyranny in the second world war. You owe them a debt you can never hope to repay.

You two guys make me sick!! I hope the mods close down this thread that is so disrespectful to the millions that died to ensure the freedoms you enjoy today.

I can't believe that anybody could be so stupid as to start this thread on this day of all days.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who is free of what...?

Remember, not everyone is an englishman here. Or french. Nor dutch.

(Infact, for many, the end of the second world war was the beginning of enslavement and restriction of freedom. But that is another topic.)

Honor those that deserve it, who-ever they may be. But try to restrict yourselfs from claiming 'your' heros are better then 'ours'.

And from the other thread...yes, the soldiers (on many sides) are worthy of your rememberence...it's the politicians and high command that deserves our disrespect, if any. A soldier only does their job.

[ThaiPauly]

I'm starting this on a new thread to keep it off the respectful thread dealing with this. Firstly the soldiers who died in WW1 were either forced to go under threat of jail or brain-washd into thinking it was in their own interests. Secondly when they did go, they killed, maimed and bombed millions of others just like them as well as countless civilians. Thirdly and most importantly, they were fighting for the interests of the ruling elite and royalty of Europe whose only concern at the time was to take over and colonise as much of the rest of the world as they could, which they did, enslaving countless people for generations and murdering millions all over the planet. I'm not just trying to be contoversial. Admitting that the people who died in those wars died pointlessly is a hard admission to make but it has to be said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nobody is discussing politics - just remembering.

Anyone's death in war is a sacrifice - whatever the reasons.

And there are no resonable reasons for war - war is the absolute in unreasonableness.

So kindly keep your thoughts to yourself, today, and remember those who are better than any of us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said Thomas. This post is tosh. I lost a lot of relatives in both Wars.

I wish the OP had an idicom of common sense. Yes this Sunday us Brits will commemorate those that gave their lives so we could be FREE MEN, not part of the GERMAN Empire and since we have been respectful of other countries and given many lands we HELPED back.

RIP myancestors who died for MY (and your) freedom

What you wank*rs have to remember is that we are the ONLY country with the word GREAT in front of our name and YOU ALL have to accept that

Oh and ENGLISH is what we all speak on this forum, nothing else but English!!

Edited November 11, 2005 by ThaiPauly

[zaz]

I was going to give you a history lesson. About the origins of WW I and how that led to WW II which led to the cold war. But really it can all be summed up in one sentence.

Freedom is worth fighting for and if necessary, dying for.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's ok I studied WW1 & WW2 at school and sort of know what went on.

But hey ok I understand we're you're all coming from and don't get so touchy ok?!

"Freedom is worth fighting for and if necessary, dying for."

You're right - many have lived and died for freedom in the past and from all parts of the World. From the Native American Indian protecting his homeland to the Aboriginie (spelling?) protecting his homeland to the South African blacks protecting their rights to the Jews fighting for the right to live in WW2 to the Palestinians of modern day the list goes on and on and on....

People have fought for freedom for years before WW1+2 and are continuing to this day to fight for freedom one way or another.

We should remember them ALL because they all had/have a cause which makes our lives what they are today.

So fair enough I retract (95%) what I said earlier...it's not that I have disrespect for the fallen it's just that the whole fighting and killing thing never really stopped did it?

[daleyboy]

I was going to give you a history lesson. About the origins of WW I and how that led to WW II which led to the cold war. But really it can all be summed up in one sentence.

Freedom is worth fighting for and if necessary, dying for.

It's ok I studied WW1 & WW2 at school and sort of know what went on.

But hey ok I understand we're you're all coming from and don't get so touchy ok?!

"Freedom is worth fighting for and if necessary, dying for."

You're right - many have lived and died for freedom in the past and from all parts of the World. From the Native American Indian protecting his homeland to the Aboriginie (spelling?) protecting his homeland to the South African blacks protecting their rights to the Jews fighting for the right to live in WW2 to the Palestinians of modern day the list goes on and on and on....

People have fought for freedom for years before WW1+2 and are continuing to this day to fight for freedom one way or another.

We should remember them ALL because they all had/have a cause which makes our lives what they are today.

So fair enough I retract (95%) what I said earlier...it's not that I have disrespect for the fallen it's just that the whole fighting and killing thing never really stopped did it?

If you actually took the time to look into rememberance day, then you would realise it is to respect the memory of ALL those that have fallen, not just from ww1 and ww2

Edited November 11, 2005 by daleyboy

[zaz]

Zaz , put a <snip>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And comments like that will earn you a lot of respect? That's the type of thing Hitler probably said to those who opposed him. That's the type of thing that Saddam probably said to those who opposed him. I'm just having a civilised discussion and expressing MY opinion which I'm entitled to do because all those who died before me fought for this exact freedom did they not...?

Edited November 11, 2005 by RDN

[daleyboy]

They shall not grow old,as we that are left grow old,

Age shall not weary them,nor the years condemn.

As the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them

Fourth Stanza of 'For the Fallen'

By Laurence Binyon(1869-1943)

Edited November 11, 2005 by daleyboy

[ThaiPauly]

Zaz , <snip>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And comments like that will earn you a lot of respect? That's the type of thing Hitler probably said to those who opposed him. That's the type of thing that Saddam probably said to those who opposed him. I'm just having a civilised discussion and expressing MY opinion which I'm entitled to do because all those who died before me fought for this exact freedom did they not...?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They did Zaz they did.....and many of us and your distant relatives gave their lives for us.

<snip>

Edited November 11, 2005 by RDN

[Rooo]

And comments like that will earn you a lot of respect? That's the type of thing Hitler probably said to those who opposed him. That's the type of thing that Saddam probably said to those who opposed him. I'm just having a civilised discussion and expressing MY opinion which I'm entitled to do because all those who died before me fought for this exact freedom did they not...?

Zaz you are full of knowldge lmao. GO READ & learn.

[ThaiPauly]

And comments like that will earn you a lot of respect? That's the type of thing Hitler probably said to those who opposed him. That's the type of thing that Saddam probably said to those who opposed him. I'm just having a civilised discussion and expressing MY opinion which I'm entitled to do because all those who died before me fought for this exact freedom did they not...?

Zaz you are full of knowldge lmao. GO READ & learn.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It 's all irelavant Roo.

<snip>

TROOPS do as they are TOLD they have NO CHOICE

<snip>

Edited November 11, 2005 by RDN

[the scouser]

The reasons for the start of both the 1st and 2nd world wars are many and complex, Remembrance Day is just that - a time for contemplation and reflection.

Whilst I defend the rights of Robitusson and zaz to air their opinions, I don't feel that this thread is appropriate in a Thailand-related forum, and am closing it for that reason.

Scouse.

//Edit: Well done Scouser - you beat me to it. I'm going to clean up the rubbish that's been posted here and leave it closed.

RDN

Edited November 11, 2005 by RDN