Best Age To Retire To Thailand

[Ulysses G.]

Some people are content to live in a flat above a shophouse and eat somtam, and those people can live on 30 or 40k per month

More like 15,000 or 20,000 with English TV and the Internet and fairly comfortably, but almost no drinking.

[ludditeman]

Some people are content to live in a flat above a shophouse and eat somtam, and those people can live on 30 or 40k per month

More like 15,000 or 20,000 with English TV and the Internet and fairly comfortably, but almost no drinking.

You are right

Makes one wonder where the excess money theses people are spending is going.

Extravagant amounts of western food and air-con is a possibility.

Hopefully not a cheating partner, inflating the prices on every outgoing.

Edited October 16, 2011 by ludditeman

[BuffaloRescue]

6% wont even keep you up with inflation - at real terms

Name 10 items that went up more than 6% in Thailand in the last year?

I can't do it!

(Items you use in everyday life, and can own yourself, so not gold or a house)

food, beer, petrol, rent, electricity.. um

[BuffaloRescue]

The problem I have is the 6% Interest rate

I see this 6% alot on TV, but any time I ask the question (where) nobody can give me a straight answer.

Australia, the banks pay that on the 1 year fixed deposit accounts (5%-7% in the last two years, current best 5.8% for 1 year, 6% for 2 years)

Australia Bank interest rates

Get on a plane to Australia, stay overnight, and you can open a bank account to take advantage of these rates.

But I made 9% last year on my portfolio, so I think 6% is a bit low and sticking money in bank accounts a poor way to invest.

The year before I think it was a bit highter 11%, what did I make this year .... dunno ask me next year.

OK but do I not have to be resident in Australia to open a bank account there? And what about the exchange rate I have Euros only?

The Thai stock market has done 10% a year for the past 10 years.. plus dividends tax free:). Until recently anyway

[BuffaloRescue]

The problem I have is the 6% Interest rate

I see this 6% alot on TV, but any time I ask the question (where) nobody can give me a straight answer.

Australia, the banks pay that on the 1 year fixed deposit accounts (5%-7% in the last two years, current best 5.8% for 1 year, 6% for 2 years)

Australia Bank interest rates

Get on a plane to Australia, stay overnight, and you can open a bank account to take advantage of these rates.

But I made 9% last year on my portfolio, so I think 6% is a bit low and sticking money in bank accounts a poor way to invest.

The year before I think it was a bit highter 11%, what did I make this year .... dunno ask me next year.

They will tax you 30% on interest at source if you are a non resident i believe?

[ludditeman]

food, beer, petrol, rent, electricity.. um

Be more specific?

People tend to have short memories on prices.

Chicken is cheaper now than last year, pork is about the same (but switched supplier to Makro as Tesco have become uncompetitive and Macro opened a store very close to me).

Eggs are cheaper 110bht for 30 large eggs, last year was 120 for 30 large

Large Beer Chang still 43 in 7/11, still 60 in my local bar, no change in price

Internet still 631 (but speed increased from 1 meg to 7meg where I live)

Rent 5000 a month now, was 7000 a month last year (many houses vacant so you can switch to a more desperate landlord)

Petrol was 30-35bht a liter last year, currently 33bht so about the same (have I mis-remembered this one?)

Electricity is slightly more per unit, but I bought an efficient new fridge, reducing my overall bill by 200bht a month

[KeyserSoze01]

There has been a lot of very good advise posted on this thread, in saying that sometimes it is just as good to let your heart rule your head. In the end we all will die and being the richest man in the graveyard won't matter much. Maybe just go for it and let tomorrow take care of it's self.

Seen people come with money and lose and others come with little and make a life. One thing is for certain, if you don't try you will never know. It's not just a health thing, how long you live that counts. It's a fitness thing, how many years do you have to enjoy life, before you become that old guy sitting in the corner,living in the past. Jim

I'd rather end up the richest man in the graveyard, than the poorest man on the plane home.

What kind of philosophy is that, can you spend your money after you have hit the bucket ?

I'd rather say, I do not want to die as a rich man ! When I die , I want to have spent all the money I had ! Only then, you have truly lived up to your budget !

So what happens when you've run out of $$$ because you retired too young and still have plenty of good years ahead of you? Take a long walk off a tall building?

[guzzi850m2]

Well I guess I am one of the lucky ones (49 year old), working in the oil offshore industry, 2 month work followed by 2 month holiday and therefore no plan of retire before at 60 years earliest and I even have the option to work for say 2- 4 month a year when turning 60 due to severe shortage of skilled people.

If you got the right Thai woman its a very good life here, a bad woman can quickly turn your life into hell, so be careful before doing any commitments, and yes many of them are worthy of a Oscar nomination, think with the big head and not the small one. I consider myself very lucky and got a very gentle, good hearted wife that take very good care of me and our 2 year old boy, and she thinks first and foremost of OUR family, all the people in her village that tried to borrow money was told to get fuxked (in polite Thai, he-he) so they stopped asking.

When living here there is a huge difference in living cost depending of where you live, which others posters also mention. I can't live in the country side, we sometimes drive up to my wife's house some 600 clicks North East of Pattaya, but after 3-4 days stay I am bored out of my skull and wants to go back to the buzz of Pattaya, and yes I like my pizzas and Burger King now and again. Its also easier to live in a heavy touristed area, many speaks fairly English, so the need for learning Thai is not that big.

My wife and I co own our quite nice house which means that I live cheap, no 25k bath/month rent money and I don't consider the house as an investment as such but more like a nice place for my family to live in. I used to live in those studio shoe boxes in BKK and I never want to do that again. To watch the garden grow is also a very nice relaxing experience/hobby and I was/am stunned how fast thing grow here compared to Denmark.

If I was to retire tomorrow I think I could live comfortable for app. 100K bath pr month, BUT due to too many uncertainties here in life I will keep on working until min 60 years old and knock my pensions fonds up as much as possible.

[ronz28]

There has been a lot of very good advise posted on this thread, in saying that sometimes it is just as good to let your heart rule your head. In the end we all will die and being the richest man in the graveyard won't matter much. Maybe just go for it and let tomorrow take care of it's self.

Seen people come with money and lose and others come with little and make a life. One thing is for certain, if you don't try you will never know. It's not just a health thing, how long you live that counts. It's a fitness thing, how many years do you have to enjoy life, before you become that old guy sitting in the corner,living in the past. Jim

I'd rather end up the richest man in the graveyard, than the poorest man on the plane home.

What kind of philosophy is that, can you spend your money after you have hit the bucket ?

I'd rather say, I do not want to die as a rich man ! When I die , I want to have spent all the money I had ! Only then, you have truly lived up to your budget !

So what happens when you've run out of $$ because you retired too young and still have plenty of good years ahead of you? Take a long walk off a tall building?

Well some people have Mack insurance in the US to cover catastrophic health conditions, etc. since they oppose Obama care. Mack as in the movie CARS, you just step out in front of a Mack truck on the highway and you will never know what hit you. Save the hook, I'll get me hat...

[Mossfinn]

Do not sell the House, Period!!

I always find this advice scary, it is very determined in nature, almost absolute as if there is no other option. I am not saying it is wrong, just talking in such absolute terms is possibly contentious, probably in my view wrong, we do not know his exact circumstances, or others who might be reading this thread and take it as an absolute in this world of options of varying degrees.

Perhaps selling the house is the best option to finance his future ideas, perhaps not, but the house has to be financed and kept, this may cost as much as 15% of his rental income, will the remainder contribute sufficiently to his expected lifestyle.

If you do not have the back stop of a house to return to, will it make you more determined to succeed? Will not selling leave you short of Capital/Cash flow to succeed?

Put a plan together using the info these threads generate and make an informed decision based on your own known circumstances and future possible outcomes and all tied in around your own expectations.

You have to second guess the future to a certain extent:

Did Churchill know that the D-Day landings would succeed on the 5th, 6th or the 7th June 1944?

Rhetorical quyestion of course

[hhfarang]

I live in a very nice bungalow for 5000bht a month

It also depends on where you decide to settle. I can tell by some of the posts above where people say they can live comfortably on a small amount that they must live in a less expensive area than I do. I live in one of the three most expensive places to reside in this country and you will not find a "nice bungalow" for less than 20,000 per month and to find that you will have to search diligently and get lucky as most of the nice bungalows around here go for 30k+ per month.

If you plan to live in Issan or a smaller Thai town away from a tourist area then you can retire and live on much less. If you plan to live in one of the main tourist centers then you will need a lot more.

Good luck and plan well.

[ludditeman]

I live in a very nice bungalow for 5000bht a month

It also depends on where you decide to settle. I can tell by some of the posts above where people say they can live comfortably on a small amount that they must live in a less expensive area than I do. I live in one of the three most expensive places to reside in this country and you will not find a "nice bungalow" for less than 20,000 per month and to find that you will have to search diligently and get lucky as most of the nice bungalows around here go for 30k+ per month.

If you plan to live in Issan or a smaller Thai town away from a tourist area then you can retire and live on much less. If you plan to live in one of the main tourist centers then you will need a lot more.

Good luck and plan well.

No

I live 8km from the centre of one of the main tourist towns in Thailand.

[David48]

Ref your option B: Remember you can only rent your house for maximum of 6 years tax exempt. Beyond that you will be up for 50% capital gains tax when you decide to sell.

It's good to think about this however the law doesn't work exactly as you have described it.

What happens is that if the property is not the 'primary place of residence' then any capital gain AFTER you have started to rent it out is potentially liable to be taxed and then only if he doesn't have any carried forward capital loss to offset the capital gains.

So if you are to rent a property for an extended period of time then best to obtain registered valuers valuation of the property so that you have the documentation for the tax office.

You can get a retrospective valuation done many years later when you sell ... needless to say, that would cost considerably more because of the extra research required.

[David48]

Hi expatdreamer … my free opinion for what it’s worth.

Like you I am also an Aussie and have travelled to Thailand more times then I have fingers and toes, but almost 10 years your senior, having hit 50 this year.

Specifically, I’ll restrict myself to the house question because that is my area of expertise have a property degree from QLD Uni and worked in a Valuers firm for 5 years.

The question of selling your property has a number of relating issues.

Currently property prices are stagnating, if not already in current downtrend in the major Australian cities.

While current building approvals hover near all time lows which would indicate upward demand on house prices, net migration is in decline in previously popular states like Queensland.

Additionally Australian immigration is slowing (despite the current influx of ‘boat people’).

These factors combined with the high interest rates that we have are combining to reduce demand for housing.

The outlook for property remains not good with downside risk.

All the above information is for your mind, at heart … how good is your financial discipline?

If you sold your place and had maybe $100,000 or $200,000 instantly could you put it in the bank and not touch it?

Have a long hard think about this because many people have won Lotto, gone from paupers to millionaires and back to paupers in under 5 years because the didn’t have the fiscal smarts to deal with money.

Back to brain food … another factor in your decision will be the exchange rate.

Currently it is nearer to 31 Baht to the Aussie Dollar and close to 10 years highs, see …

For me the solution was to bring some of that money into Thailand at the current good exchange rate and buy into some reasonable high dividend paying Thai stocks.

Never invest all your money at once, invest wisely, take slow and informed choices.

IF, and I repeat IF you have the financial discipline to not blow all the money OR slowly spend your capital then selling the house is probably a good option for you.

Wishing you the best of luck what ever you decide …

[PattayaParent]

^Non Aussie mates that have gone to work in Australia tell me that house prices are high and rent is also high because there is not enough to go around and there is a large infliux of foreigners and even locals into Perth, Brisbane and Gladstone due to the massive O&G (specifically LNG) projects there.

If the OP has a property in those places he could maybe rent it out and find a cheaper / smaller place for just himself to live in if he no longer needs the larger family home and is still paying off a motgage on it.

[David48]

Hi PP, yes you are correct with 2 of those three places. Perth previously and Gladstone now is now experiencing a boom in prices, where Brisbane, the State capital languishes.

Had to give hard nosed advice to the OP until we know where he lives and what time frame we wants to sell his house in, or indeed is he wants to sell at all.

There is a fair weight of evidence that Australia is in a ‘housing bubble’ based on the number of time the average salary has to be multiplied to buy the ‘average’ house.

Not wanting to bore all the readers here with endless statistics a good understanding can be got by reading … http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_property_bubble

To quote directly from the website … “Several surveys and popular commentaries have suggested that the Australian housing market is overvalued. The Economist (21 Oct 2010) found that Australian house prices were overvalued by 63.2%,” and “An earlier study by The Economist had found that Australian property was "the most overvalued of any of the 20 countries we track."^[16]”

Hope this helps and doesn’t muddy the waters with to much information.

[Pingis]

<br>

If you are struggling and in dire straits living on 80k per month, then you are in desperate need of a financial advisor. I'll give you some advice for free to start you off. Sell of one or both your cars. Sell you house and downsize to a smaller one. Stop smoking, quit drinking. Eat local. Come to think of it, if you follow this advise, you won't need a financial advisor after all. It's not rocket science.

<br><br>I have tried to sell my house (to downsize) for about 1/2 of what it was worth when I finished building for the last four years. The current economic situation where I live won't allow it to sell. I don't smoke and the cars are both paid for and 2004/2005 models. I not only eat local, I eat in my home 90% of the time with the food my wife cooks. I drink but its the cheapest boxed wine and Chang beer at home. <br><br>Some people are content to live in a flat above a shophouse and eat somtam, and those people can live on 30 or 40k per month but I don't think that was what the OP was asking. That's why I started my post off with "enjoying your lifestyle is subjective". I chose to build a nice home for my family (I support 3 people) and I originally thought I had enough money to do that plus go back to the U.S. once a year. That has not turned out to be the case. I'm just honestly trying to help other people to plan better so as not to end up like me. <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" alt=""><br>

Do you mean you have a big expensive loan on your house?

How can you have trouble geting a nice life even for 30 - 40 k per month? You seem to be fooled to pay very high "farang prices"...

<br>

<br>Some people are content to live in a flat above a shophouse and eat somtam, and those people can live on 30 or 40k per month

<br><br>More like 15,000 or 20,000 with English TV and the Internet and fairly comfortably, but almost no drinking.<br>

<br>Yes. I don't live in Thailand yet, but I expect around that will be enough, because my ex thai gf have "everything" just needing 8 000 per month.</div><div>She earn 12 000 per month spend 8 000 of them on living and put the rest on insurances. She will get more retirement money than I probably will get Then she:</div><div>live in a rather nice house with standard rather similar to farang (WC, microwaveowen...)</div><div>own laptop, both cable and mobile Internet</div><div>have an old car (bad, so repairs cost rather much)</div><div>motorbike</div><div>2 mid size dogs...</div><div><br></div><div>My startup costs will of course be biger, but after I have bought things I expect 15 - 20 000 per month will be enough even to travel to my birth country once a year.</div><div><br></div><div>Some high spenders seem to miss to think of it's possible to get much amusement for very small costs in the long run by buying amusement equipments as e g canoe, sailing, tabletennis, billiard....

Edit: How come the system show that much junk code? It didn't when I wrote yesterday. (I took away some.)

Edited October 17, 2011 by Pingis

[Bkkorupcountry]

If you are struggling and in dire straits living on 80k per month, then you are in desperate need of a financial advisor. I'll give you some advice for free to start you off. Sell of one or both your cars. Sell you house and downsize to a smaller one. Stop smoking, quit drinking. Eat local. Come to think of it, if you follow this advise, you won't need a financial advisor after all. It's not rocket science.

I have tried to sell my house (to downsize) for about 1/2 of what it was worth when I finished building for the last four years. The current economic situation where I live won't allow it to sell. I don't smoke and the cars are both paid for and 2004/2005 models. I not only eat local, I eat in my home 90% of the time with the food my wife cooks. I drink but its the cheapest boxed wine and Chang beer at home.

Some people are content to live in a flat above a shophouse and eat somtam, and those people can live on 30 or 40k per month but I don't think that was what the OP was asking. That's why I started my post off with "enjoying your lifestyle is subjective". I chose to build a nice home for my family (I support 3 people) and I originally thought I had enough money to do that plus go back to the U.S. once a year. That has not turned out to be the case. I'm just honestly trying to help other people to plan better so as not to end up like me.

I absolutely don't get it. You own your house, so no rental. You own both your cars, so no hire purchase / loan. You eat at home, you don't smoke. What are you spending your money on????

[Pingis]

The Thai stock market has done 10% a year for the past 10 years.. plus dividends tax free:). Until recently anyway

Not suprising. Although big parts of Thailand are undeveloped yet, parts have developed very fast.

I haven't checked rules for farangs investing in the Bangkok stock market yet, but when thai gf show interest what to do with her saved money (from her salary and inherit from her mother) then I looked just to show her how to value stock market companies roughly, and then I found several thai companies with good profit rather fast. (If I understood corect tax on share profits are low (just around 7%) but perhaps that's just for thai?) Some companies have a policy paying much to shareholders, which hold down the price increasing on them, but no big difference in profit.

[ludditeman]

I absolutely don't get it. You own your house, so no rental. You own both your cars, so no hire purchase / loan. You eat at home, you don't smoke. What are you spending your money on????

10k a month for his lady to let him live in her house ??

20k a month for her to live in it with him ???

Only kidding, but I have seen guys actually doing this.

[Bkkorupcountry]

There has been a lot of very good advise posted on this thread, in saying that sometimes it is just as good to let your heart rule your head. In the end we all will die and being the richest man in the graveyard won't matter much. Maybe just go for it and let tomorrow take care of it's self.

Seen people come with money and lose and others come with little and make a life. One thing is for certain, if you don't try you will never know. It's not just a health thing, how long you live that counts. It's a fitness thing, how many years do you have to enjoy life, before you become that old guy sitting in the corner,living in the past. Jim

I'd rather end up the richest man in the graveyard, than the poorest man on the plane home.

What kind of philosophy is that, can you spend your money after you have hit the bucket ?

I'd rather say, I do not want to die as a rich man ! When I die , I want to have spent all the money I had ! Only then, you have truly lived up to your budget !

So what happens when you've run out of $$ because you retired too young and still have plenty of good years ahead of you? Take a long walk off a tall building?

Actually yes. How many of us have the luxury of being able to choose the time and method of death? The only proviso is that we should leave a little something behind for children if any

[newbepat]

The problem I have is the 6% Interest rate

I see this 6% alot on TV, but any time I ask the question (where) nobody can give me a straight answer.

Australia, the banks pay that on the 1 year fixed deposit accounts (5%-7% in the last two years, current best 5.8% for 1 year, 6% for 2 years)

Australia Bank interest rates

Get on a plane to Australia, stay overnight, and you can open a bank account to take advantage of these rates.

But I made 9% last year on my portfolio, so I think 6% is a bit low and sticking money in bank accounts a poor way to invest.

The year before I think it was a bit highter 11%, what did I make this year .... dunno ask me next year.

I am very interested in any advise I can get , as I am also thinking of the big move to Thailand in 2012

As regards to what you need to live on in Thailand per month, I have seen 5k to 300k been reported, I suppose it depends on your circumstances

To live alone in Ireland no mortage, Dont drink or smoke, I travel to Thailand 2/3 times a year,I can live on about €€2000K per Month.

Can I live in Thailand on €€2000 = 84k Baht per month?, I Hope So.

Question of Interest rate :

Ludditman says : You need an Australian address for 1 night (hotel is ok) But how could I become an Australian resident by spending 1 night in a hotel that can't be correct ???

Wow 6% to 9% I wish! Best I can do is 3% to 3.9% Irish/British/Cyprus banks (Euros) We pay 27% tax on Interest

I never played the stock market game and @ 63 years of age, I dont think I should risk my pension pot at this time of my life,such as it is.

Edited October 17, 2011 by newbepat

[ludditeman]

Question of Interest rate :

Ludditman says : You need an Australian address for 1 night (hotel is ok) But how could I become an Australian resident by spending 1 night in a hotel that can't be correct ???

You don't need to be a resident, just have an Australian address to put on the forms.

[chops]

I didn't wait. I moved here when I was 27. I'd hate to have had to wait til I was 50 or 60 to live here.

[DavidWilliams]

Depends on when you are going to die.

wonder if anyone knows the latest rules about Aussie pensions in Thailand I come of pension age in 3 years

[David48]

Depends on when you are going to die.

wonder if anyone knows the latest rules about Aussie pensions in Thailand I come of pension age in 3 years

Hi David there has been a lot written about this subject.

The current thread is up to page 24.

Here is the direct link to the last page and latest information.

[David48]

Question of Interest rate :

Ludditman says : You need an Australian address for 1 night (hotel is ok) But how could I become an Australian resident by spending 1 night in a hotel that can't be correct ???

You don't need to be a resident, just have an Australian address to put on the forms.

For opening a bank account in Australia, this might be also be helpful.

http://www.australianaustralia.com/page/Opening_a_Bank_Account_in_Australia/190

From the Australian Tax Office ... http://www.immi.gov.au/living-in-australia/settle-in-australia/to-do-first/open-bank-account.htm

Quote ... " 3. Open a Bank Account You should open a bank account within six weeks of your arrival, as you usually need only your passport as identification. After six weeks you will need extra identification to open an account."

More information here ... http://www.jobaroo.com/open-bank-account.html

[Ulysses G.]

I didn't wait. I moved here when I was 27. I'd hate to have had to wait til I was 50 or 60 to live here.

I came here when I was young too. After 50 years old, many men have a lot less interest in the main attractions.

Edited October 18, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[hhfarang]

I live 8km from the centre of one of the main tourist towns in Thailand.

8k from the center of many tourist towns (including mine) could put you in the jungle or a small Thai village.

I absolutely don't get it. You own your house, so no rental. You own both your cars, so no hire purchase / loan. You eat at home, you don't smoke. What are you spending your money on????

Ok, here's a partial list. I know I will get flamed for this, but remember, I said it is subjective on how you want to live. I wanted to keep up the same standard of living I had before retirement. If you're willing to go backwards, that's up to the individual.

6k per month to the missus as an allowance (no woman wants to come begging to her husband for money)

7k per month to support the missus Mom

2.5k per month on car insurance and road tax (I get first class insurance as I don't want to lose my home in a lawsuit)

5k approximately per month medical even though I don't have insurance (that will be another expense for most. My 5k goes for some expensive maintenance meds and an annual checkup.

2k per month for satellite TV

1k per month for a reliable internet connection

2k average per month for gasoline for both cars and lawn equipment

3k per month on a part time housekeeper

7.5k per month for a full time gardener (we have a rai and a half of garden, less the footprint of the home.

7k average electric bill. That's only using one aircon (or none, out of eight) at a time as I only aircon the room I'm in at the time and only if it's hot enough that I start to sweat. The rest is pumps I guess (we have 5 of them for various purposes) and yard lighting (the low wattage fluorescent type) that I leave on all night for security reasons

.5k average for water to water the garden, higher in dry season lower in wet season.

2k average per month phone bill (cell and land line) the missus likes to talk to her mother and daughter (overseas).

1k per month cable tv. I have satellite in one room and cable in all the others for the Thai family and visitors

1k per month for pest control

5k per month estimated for general maintenance and upkeep on home, garden, and cars

1k per month estimated for the care, medical, and feeding of two dogs

8k per month estimated alcohol as I like to drink wine and it is expensive here.

15k estimated per month for groceries including anything we buy at a supermarket like cleaning supplies, soap, detergent, powders, lotions, etc., etc.,

That's close to the 80k and I'm sure I forgot something. And we have no health insurance or home insurance as we can't fit either into the budget. We also make a trip to Bangkok to buy my meds (cheaper there) or for other medical reasons about 4 times a year, 3 days at a time at a cost of an annual average of at least 2k per month. We go to Issan once a year to visit relatives at a cost of around 12k or average 1k per month (half of which is gasoline).

So there you have it... over 80k per month with no international travel and no dining out. I realize all people will not need all or maybe even most items on my list and that is why I said it is subjective and depends on the lifestyle you want to live.

To continue the above, plus get health insurance on my family, homeowner's insurance on my home, and travel internationally at least once a year I would need a minimum of 120k per month income.

But as the girls here say, "Up to you".

[Bkkorupcountry]

I live 8km from the centre of one of the main tourist towns in Thailand.

8k from the center of many tourist towns (including mine) could put you in the jungle or a small Thai village.

I absolutely don't get it. You own your house, so no rental. You own both your cars, so no hire purchase / loan. You eat at home, you don't smoke. What are you spending your money on????

Ok, here's a partial list. I know I will get flamed for this, but remember, I said it is subjective on how you want to live. I wanted to keep up the same standard of living I had before retirement. If you're willing to go backwards, that's up to the individual.

6k per month to the missus as an allowance (no woman wants to come begging to her husband for money)

7k per month to support the missus Mom

2.5k per month on car insurance and road tax (I get first class insurance as I don't want to lose my home in a lawsuit)

5k approximately per month medical even though I don't have insurance (that will be another expense for most. My 5k goes for some expensive maintenance meds and an annual checkup.

2k per month for satellite TV

1k per month for a reliable internet connection

2k average per month for gasoline for both cars and lawn equipment

3k per month on a part time housekeeper

7.5k per month for a full time gardener (we have a rai and a half of garden, less the footprint of the home.

7k average electric bill. That's only using one aircon (or none, out of eight) at a time as I only aircon the room I'm in at the time and only if it's hot enough that I start to sweat. The rest is pumps I guess (we have 5 of them for various purposes) and yard lighting (the low wattage fluorescent type) that I leave on all night for security reasons

.5k average for water to water the garden, higher in dry season lower in wet season.

2k average per month phone bill (cell and land line) the missus likes to talk to her mother and daughter (overseas).

1k per month cable tv. I have satellite in one room and cable in all the others for the Thai family and visitors

1k per month for pest control

5k per month estimated for general maintenance and upkeep on home, garden, and cars

1k per month estimated for the care, medical, and feeding of two dogs

8k per month estimated alcohol as I like to drink wine and it is expensive here.

15k estimated per month for groceries including anything we buy at a supermarket like cleaning supplies, soap, detergent, powders, lotions, etc., etc.,

That's close to the 80k and I'm sure I forgot something. And we have no health insurance or home insurance as we can't fit either into the budget. We also make a trip to Bangkok to buy my meds (cheaper there) or for other medical reasons about 4 times a year, 3 days at a time at a cost of an annual average of at least 2k per month. We go to Issan once a year to visit relatives at a cost of around 12k or average 1k per month (half of which is gasoline).

So there you have it... over 80k per month with no international travel and no dining out. I realize all people will not need all or maybe even most items on my list and that is why I said it is subjective and depends on the lifestyle you want to live.

To continue the above, plus get health insurance on my family, homeowner's insurance on my home, and travel internationally at least once a year I would need a minimum of 120k per month income.

But as the girls here say, "Up to you".

I won't comment on your individual items, that's totally up to you but from the looks of it, you are hardly struggling and in dire straights. I would say instead that you have a very comfortable existence, better than many. I spend about Bht 20 k per month on groceries/wine/entertainment (less than you do) and I can safely say I'm having a ball of a time on that - I eat out every meal (2.5 of us).

If international travel is important for your overall quality of life, then it's no great shakes to amend your spending habit for a few months and you can then easily afford to take an overseas holiday.