As Thailand Floods Spread, Experts Blame Officials, Not Rains

[webfact]

As Thailand Floods Spread, Experts Blame Officials, Not Rains

By SETH MYDANS

BANGKOK — As some of Thailand’s worst flooding in half a century bears down on Bangkok — submerging cities, industrial parks and ancient temples as it comes — experts in water management are blaming human activity for turning an unusually heavy monsoon season into a disaster.

The main factors, they say, are deforestation, overbuilding in catchment areas, the damming and diversion of natural waterways, urban sprawl, and the filling-in of canals, combined with bad planning. Warnings to the authorities, they say, have been in vain.

“I have tried to inform them many times, but they tell me I am a crazy man,” said Smith Dharmasaroja, former director general of the [more...]

Full story: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/14/world/asia/a-natural-disaster-in-thailand-guided-by-human-hand.html?_r=3

-- nytimes.com 2011-10-14

[DocN]

Yeah...ahm...floodings during rainy season in Thailand. That has been going on since...what is the correct term, I am looking for?...oh yeah: FOREVER!

If you are talking about "floods", you always have to talk about "worst case scenario" and not "mai pen rai"!

But as long as rainforrest will be destroyed and replaced by the giant asphalt parking lot of an even gian'er industrial complex and no one gives a sh**...this is what you get.

Who is responsible? The rain? Yeah...now here is the deal: rain = being around for 4 billion years...

Politics, greedy people...basically all people, who just don't care...are to blame for the current situation.

[hammered]

The obvious simple thing that could have been done and could be every year is to release water from behind dams at an earlier point rather than wait until everything is full and then release huge deluges all at the same time

[thaicbr]

The obvious simple thing that could have been done and could be every year is to release water from behind dams at an earlier point rather than wait until everything is full and then release huge deluges all at the same time

And also make sure the waterways that the released water is going down have been dredged clear so that the maximum water could travel........Oh and make sure that the local town / city drainage system was clean and clear. It's amazing driving through standing water that is going no where due to blocked drains (3 days in a row in Nakhon Pathom)

But mai pen rai.

[animatic]

The obvious simple thing that could have been done and could be every year is to release water from behind dams at an earlier point rather than wait until everything is full and then release huge deluges all at the same time

And telling those in charge to just do their job when it needs be done,

and not wait for orders from above rather than be thought wrong.

Because those giving orders from above usually do NOT understand the situation, they're just the politically appointed boss.

Edited October 14, 2011 by animatic

[OzMick]

The obvious simple thing that could have been done and could be every year is to release water from behind dams at an earlier point rather than wait until everything is full and then release huge deluges all at the same time

And so easy to do with 20/20 hindsight !

Flood mitigation is only one of the functions that have to be considered, as well a hydro-generation and irrigation water storage. Perhaps in the future the priorities will be reconsidered, at least until the next drought when the farmer's will be screaming about lack of water that was dumped for the flood that didn't eventuate.

[wana]

thailand needs a much more advanced water management system ,something thats monitored 24/7 365 days a year

every year ,its either OHO SHIT ,THERE IS TOO MUCH WATER .........!!!!! WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO ??? ITS UNPRECEDENTED

how can they still call it unprecedented when it happens nearly every year ? wasnt there droughts and floods last year and previous years before that killed hundreds as well ?

same every year and the answer seems to be ,fix it as cheaply as possible and say it must never be allowed to happen again

then go for dinner and drinks ,and relax until it happens again

[Roachiebkk]

We really need to get all dem boats to just go upstream and push all da water out to sea. It's such a brilliant and innovative plan. Got to love dear old Yingluck. Stop boats going downstream because that just slows the whole process down.

[WarpSpeed]

The obvious simple thing that could have been done and could be every year is to release water from behind dams at an earlier point rather than wait until everything is full and then release huge deluges all at the same time

And also make sure the waterways that the released water is going down have been dredged clear so that the maximum water could travel........Oh and make sure that the local town / city drainage system was clean and clear. It's amazing driving through standing water that is going no where due to blocked drains (3 days in a row in Nakhon Pathom)

But mai pen rai.

Well that's true but also requires a better drainage system design entirely that doesn't block up so easily. These drains here and the entire system is <deleted>, they shouldn't be in the road surface for one and they shouldn't be just 2 small holes with 1.5 inch PVC pipe going through them, a single large leaf can block these let alone a plastic bag..

Here's one very nice example of what should be used

Here's another nice example, the vertical grating allows water to pass through even if the horizontal grating is blocked by debris.

These are kind of clever and cheaply constructed, if not dirty.

Here is a real prime example.

All of these pictured also have large internal traps that catch debris to prevent more pollution and blockage so there are many successful solutions to be found in the western world, the question is do they really want to know and spend the needed funds or is narcissism and pocket corruption the real obstacles to blocking their education?

None of these will dent your new rims, knock the fillings out of your teeth while damaging your suspension, nor break in half to seriously injure a cyclist or pedestrian either.

On a final note all of these designs have been around for decades in the western world..

Edited October 14, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Crushdepth]

thailand needs a much more advanced water management system ,something thats monitored 24/7 365 days a year

every year ,its either OHO SHIT ,THERE IS TOO MUCH WATER .........!!!!! WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO ??? ITS UNPRECEDENTED

how can they still call it unprecedented when it happens nearly every year ? wasnt there droughts and floods last year and previous years before that killed hundreds as well ?

same every year and the answer seems to be ,fix it as cheaply as possible and say it must never be allowed to happen again

then go for dinner and drinks ,and relax until it happens again

They have one. It doesn't work because politicians interfere with it.

[leo12345]

The obvious simple thing that could have been done and could be every year is to release water from behind dams at an earlier point rather than wait until everything is full and then release huge deluges all at the same time

AMEN, This is the way the whole country works and see what happens.

[leo12345]

Maybe they should change the law and give money back for first boat buyers

[apalink_thailand]

The obvious simple thing that could have been done and could be every year is to release water from behind dams at an earlier point rather than wait until everything is full and then release huge deluges all at the same time

And also make sure the waterways that the released water is going down have been dredged clear so that the maximum water could travel........Oh and make sure that the local town / city drainage system was clean and clear. It's amazing driving through standing water that is going no where due to blocked drains (3 days in a row in Nakhon Pathom)

But mai pen rai.

Well that's true but also requires a better drainage system design entirely that doesn't block up so easily. These drains here and the entire system is <deleted>, they shouldn't be in the road surface for one and they shouldn't be just 2 small holes with 1.5 inch PVC pipe going through them, a single large leaf can block these let alone a plastic bag..

Here's one very nice example of what should be used

Here's another nice example, the vertical grating allows water to pass through even if the horizontal grating is blocked by debris.

These are kind of clever and cheaply constructed, if not dirty.

Here is a real prime example.

All of these pictured also have large internal traps that catch debris to prevent more pollution and blockage so there are many successful solutions to be found in the western world, the question is do they really want to know and spend the needed funds or is narcissism and pocket corruption the real obstacles to blocking their education?

None of these will dent your new rims, knock the fillings out of your teeth while damaging your suspension, nor break in half to seriously injure a cyclist or pedestrian either.

On a final note all of these designs have been around for decades in the western world..

They used to have the iron grates but guess what happened? They all got stolen and sold for scrap. TIT

[bmwbloch]

What Thailand needs to do

• set-up a permanent year round flood prevention team
• team shall manage/coordinate all dams, reservoirs, flood gates
• use dams to manage water flow (decharge early)
• straighten soom rivers to increase water flow by
  • adding canals short cutting large river knees (add a gate to close during dry season, open during flood season)

[Tokay]

Well that's true but also requires a better drainage system design entirely that doesn't block up so easily. These drains here and the entire system is <deleted>, they shouldn't be in the road surface for one and they shouldn't be just 2 small holes with 1.5 inch PVC pipe going through them, a single large leaf can block these let alone a plastic bag..

Here's one very nice example of what should be used

Here's another nice example, the vertical grating allows water to pass through even if the horizontal grating is blocked by debris.

These are kind of clever and cheaply constructed, if not dirty.

Here is a real prime example.

All of these pictured also have large internal traps that catch debris to prevent more pollution and blockage so there are many successful solutions to be found in the western world, the question is do they really want to know and spend the needed funds or is narcissism and pocket corruption the real obstacles to blocking their education?

None of these will dent your new rims, knock the fillings out of your teeth while damaging your suspension, nor break in half to seriously injure a cyclist or pedestrian either.

On a final note all of these designs have been around for decades in the western world..

Mods, please ban this poster. Solid logic and sound ideas such as his should not be tolerated.

[WarpSpeed]

The obvious simple thing that could have been done and could be every year is to release water from behind dams at an earlier point rather than wait until everything is full and then release huge deluges all at the same time

And also make sure the waterways that the released water is going down have been dredged clear so that the maximum water could travel........Oh and make sure that the local town / city drainage system was clean and clear. It's amazing driving through standing water that is going no where due to blocked drains (3 days in a row in Nakhon Pathom)

But mai pen rai.

Well that's true but also requires a better drainage system design entirely that doesn't block up so easily. These drains here and the entire system is <deleted>, they shouldn't be in the road surface for one and they shouldn't be just 2 small holes with 1.5 inch PVC pipe going through them, a single large leaf can block these let alone a plastic bag..

Here's one very nice example of what should be used

Here's another nice example, the vertical grating allows water to pass through even if the horizontal grating is blocked by debris.

These are kind of clever and cheaply constructed, if not dirty.

Here is a real prime example.

All of these pictured also have large internal traps that catch debris to prevent more pollution and blockage so there are many successful solutions to be found in the western world, the question is do they really want to know and spend the needed funds or is narcissism and pocket corruption the real obstacles to blocking their education?

None of these will dent your new rims, knock the fillings out of your teeth while damaging your suspension, nor break in half to seriously injure a cyclist or pedestrian either.

On a final note all of these designs have been around for decades in the western world..

They used to have the iron grates but guess what happened? They all got stolen and sold for scrap. TIT

Not in the burbs, they've never used steel and it's more about the design and placement not the materials. As for stealing them I'm already aware of that but there are remedies to that too, like locking or welding them down and requiring the police to enforce the law against thieves so that's just another excuse and it speaks to a larger issue in Thailand..

Edited October 14, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Well that's true but also requires a better drainage system design entirely that doesn't block up so easily. These drains here and the entire system is <deleted>, they shouldn't be in the road surface for one and they shouldn't be just 2 small holes with 1.5 inch PVC pipe going through them, a single large leaf can block these let alone a plastic bag..

Here's one very nice example of what should be used

Here's another nice example, the vertical grating allows water to pass through even if the horizontal grating is blocked by debris.

These are kind of clever and cheaply constructed, if not dirty.

Here is a real prime example.

All of these pictured also have large internal traps that catch debris to prevent more pollution and blockage so there are many successful solutions to be found in the western world, the question is do they really want to know and spend the needed funds or is narcissism and pocket corruption the real obstacles to blocking their education?

None of these will dent your new rims, knock the fillings out of your teeth while damaging your suspension, nor break in half to seriously injure a cyclist or pedestrian either.

On a final note all of these designs have been around for decades in the western world..

Mods, please ban this poster. Solid logic and sound ideas such as his should not be tolerated.

............................................... The suggestion I just posted in another thread about the military base providing sand bags out front will really do me in then ...

Edited October 14, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Artisi]

Well that's true but also requires a better drainage system design entirely that doesn't block up so easily. These drains here and the entire system is <deleted>, they shouldn't be in the road surface for one and they shouldn't be just 2 small holes with 1.5 inch PVC pipe going through them, a single large leaf can block these let alone a plastic bag..

Here's one very nice example of what should be used

Here's another nice example, the vertical grating allows water to pass through even if the horizontal grating is blocked by debris.

These are kind of clever and cheaply constructed, if not dirty.

Here is a real prime example.

All of these pictured also have large internal traps that catch debris to prevent more pollution and blockage so there are many successful solutions to be found in the western world, the question is do they really want to know and spend the needed funds or is narcissism and pocket corruption the real obstacles to blocking their education?

None of these will dent your new rims, knock the fillings out of your teeth while damaging your suspension, nor break in half to seriously injure a cyclist or pedestrian either.

On a final note all of these designs have been around for decades in the western world..

Mods, please ban this poster. Solid logic and sound ideas such as his should not be tolerated.

No need to ban the poster, it's only a farang talking and what would they know.

[bitterbatter]

Maybe people should go to the temples and learn how to meditate on cloud busting. If that doesn't work, then they should recognize that humans are like other animals and not meant have to stay in one place (be nomadic). To blame the government for the rain is absurd. Wake up.

[WarpSpeed]

What Thailand needs to do

• set-up a permanent year round flood prevention team
• team shall manage/coordinate all dams, reservoirs, flood gates
• use dams to manage water flow (decharge early)
• straighten soom rivers to increase water flow by
  • adding canals short cutting large river knees (add a gate to close during dry season, open during flood season)

I have to say that the suggestion of early release without a certainty of excess rain is a real seriously potential disaster of a crap shoot. Water diversion and storage is the answer not early release as that can cause serious drought if guessed wrong and that comes from a lot of past experience in a flood prone environment where that's been done and failed miserably.. Water is life, just not so much at one time and in the wrong place..

Edited October 14, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

Well that's true but also requires a better drainage system design entirely that doesn't block up so easily. These drains here and the entire system is <deleted>, they shouldn't be in the road surface for one and they shouldn't be just 2 small holes with 1.5 inch PVC pipe going through them, a single large leaf can block these let alone a plastic bag..

Here's one very nice example of what should be used

Here's another nice example, the vertical grating allows water to pass through even if the horizontal grating is blocked by debris.

These are kind of clever and cheaply constructed, if not dirty.

Here is a real prime example.

All of these pictured also have large internal traps that catch debris to prevent more pollution and blockage so there are many successful solutions to be found in the western world, the question is do they really want to know and spend the needed funds or is narcissism and pocket corruption the real obstacles to blocking their education?

None of these will dent your new rims, knock the fillings out of your teeth while damaging your suspension, nor break in half to seriously injure a cyclist or pedestrian either.

On a final note all of these designs have been around for decades in the western world..

Mods, please ban this poster. Solid logic and sound ideas such as his should not be tolerated.

No need to ban the poster, it's only a farang talking and what would they know.

guilty as charged..

[WarpSpeed]

Maybe people should go to the temples and learn how to meditate on cloud busting. If that doesn't work, then they should recognize that humans are like other animals and not meant have to stay in one place (be nomadic). To blame the government for the rain is absurd. Wake up.

Is anyone blaming them for the rain? Or rather the management of it?

[surangw]

persons thinking they will make money selling grates for scrap would probably use more fuel transporting them then they would get for scrap iron

[NanLaew]

We really need to get all dem boats to just go upstream and push all da water out to sea. It's such a brilliant and innovative plan. Got to love dear old Yingluck. Stop boats going downstream because that just slows the whole process down.

The farcical '1000 boats' idea isn't hers.

[ResX]

Yeah...ahm...floodings during rainy season in Thailand. That has been going on since...what is the correct term, I am looking for?...oh yeah: FOREVER!

If you are talking about "floods", you always have to talk about "worst case scenario" and not "mai pen rai"!

But as long as rainforrest will be destroyed and replaced by the giant asphalt parking lot of an even gian'er industrial complex and no one gives a sh**...this is what you get.

Who is responsible? The rain? Yeah...now here is the deal: rain = being around for 4 billion years...

Politics, greedy people...basically all people, who just don't care...are to blame for the current situation.

Before blamming deforestation let have a close look on how your main reservoirs are operated and managed. If we allow the rainfall to create flood of this magnitude, probably it does once in 400 years. Maybe. What happens if you have basically normal flood flow that you have seen many times over the last 20 years plus the reservoirs releases and they were channeled through the same river paths?

As far as the flood is concern it doesn't really matter whether the water comes from rainfall or reservoirs releases. If the river bank is breached then, you have it.

There is one thing important that all of us shall learn. The flood control reservoirs cannot release water during natural flood period. It it does then one of these possibilities must be true: 1) The reservoir has inadequate design for flood control operations, or 2) The natural flood flow is higher then the expected maximum used by the designers. In your case I don't know which one is true. That is why I suggest please have a look at water management methodology for your main reservoirs. If the methodology is accurate then you will see clear strategy how the releases are done to circumvent the need to release during natural flood season.

Obviously, my opinion is basically similar with press statement given your ex director of your Irrigation Department.

[Rinrada]

For a country trying to imitate Atlantis its not doing too bad on the economic front 47=pound..and with Som Chai selling buckets of sand and fake lifejackets..who knows what will happen this time Next Year when the BIG ONE has been forcast...hum...hum...

[WarpSpeed]

persons thinking they will make money selling grates for scrap would probably use more fuel transporting them then they would get for scrap iron

Oooops! You're guilty of my crime of using too much logic, "you tink too much".

I can't see how they can get away with doing that anyways? If laws were passed and most importantly enforced making it a real crime to even receive such property it would cease quite quickly as not only are they not easily or quickly removed but also easily identifiable by the scrap merchant and anyone policing for them.

[ThaiKiwi]

The obvious simple thing that could have been done and could be every year is to release water from behind dams at an earlier point rather than wait until everything is full and then release huge deluges all at the same time

I wonder who would guarantee that the rains are actually going to come?

Often the dams never get to completely full during the rainy season. From memory, I believe this is one of the first times in a long history that all of the dams across the whole country have reached capacity in the same year.

[chaoyang]

Perhaps Science and Technology Minister Plop-sop can come up with another brain storm (oh, sorry he says we need a "brain drought", not more storms) that combine some of his previous breakthroughs.

Instead of eating exotic animals at the Night Safari in Chiang Mai, we could use them instead -- float giraffes and the like down to Krung Thep to help heighten the levies.

"Giraffes are good because they are tall and also able to drink up some of the water," Plop-sop said. "Though elephants can also spray it."

He said that the floods will also hurt the rice harvest, so finding a good end use for large animals will also help conserve food. "In this day and age I don't know why we still think we need so many elephants around anyway," Plop said. "Though eating their young can be delicious, finding a more practical use is crucial."

After getting off the phone to Dubai, he suggested a that Auyathya could become a water them park and Bangkok become a hub for water studies.

Edited October 14, 2011 by chaoyang

[MaxYakov]

Maybe people should go to the temples and learn how to meditate on cloud busting. If that doesn't work, then they should recognize that humans are like other animals and not meant have to stay in one place (be nomadic). To blame the government for the rain is absurd. Wake up.

If this rain keeps up, I might just revert to Nomadism myself. But first, I've got to get my licks in on the government to induce some additional paranoid incentive - as if the dread of having to dodge alligators (all kinds) in the flooded streets of Bangkok was not enough. Peace.