Democrat Urges Thaksin To Tell Red Shirts To Stop Causing Rifts

[metisdead]

A post attempting to bait another poster into another bickering session has been removed.

[ThaiOats]

FYI, the influence of Red Shirts goes beyond Isaan and Northern Thailand, it's international. I have a business here in the US and it's taboo to talk about what political party you support. It's unforgiving to show support to either side because you'll lose (Thai) customers very quickly. So last month I got a phone call from the "Committee of Thaksin Supporters" asking to donate some money for their cause (this was AFTER the election, not flood related) but I couldn't decline because they'd boycott my business. I know how Thais are and they are very spiteful. I'm Thai and the Thai community in my city is very small; everyone knows every rumor about you and it spreads like wildfire. I'm sure some of you would agree with me that Thais are very good at gossiping.

I really wished this Red-Shirt nonsense would just end. The yellow-shirts have been quiet for some time now... and those opposing this government is most likely not a yellow shirt. Thai people should just step back and look at this from a 3rd person point of view... perhaps come and read posts on TVF.

[rixalex]

And given how biased and agenda driven many media outlets are, it always makes me laugh when people here label someone like Nick Nostitz as biased. There you have someone who actually does the hard work, goes out, takes photos, documents, and reports on what he witnessed. He gets slammed from all sides because he is not aligned with one side or another.

Well if working hard, going out, taking photos, documenting and reporting, was any measure of objectivity, Nick would most certainly be one of the most.. objective that is. Sadly it has no bearing. There's no doubting how well informed he is though. I respectfully give him that.

[tlansford]

And given how biased and agenda driven many media outlets are, it always makes me laugh when people here label someone like Nick Nostitz as biased. There you have someone who actually does the hard work, goes out, takes photos, documents, and reports on what he witnessed. He gets slammed from all sides because he is not aligned with one side or another.

Well if working hard, going out, taking photos, documenting and reporting, was any measure of objectivity, Nick would most certainly be one of the most.. objective that is. Sadly it has no bearing. There's no doubting how well informed he is though. I respectfully give him that.

Hi Rixalex - yes, (lol) he is very well informed. I'm not going to try to convince you of his objectivity, but for perspective, mention a couple of points. I don't know if you have read his books, or not?

I've read some of his articles and I've read 2 of his books. Some good points with the books - first, they are a re-write of the events. He already did the articles at the time. That has the advantage of more time since the events for 1) more information, 2) more reflection on the events, and 3) placing each event in an historical timeline (and with perspective).

Not many people are doing this about the politics in Thailand, and no one else, who I am aware of, is doing it from the street perspective.

So in reading the books, you get the events. when, where, who, how, etc. Really good first-person information & reporting that often times did not appear in other media, ever. Then you get the input from the other actors on the scene. He speaks fluent Thai, so he can understand what the army, police, politicians, protesters, and bystanders are saying. He also knows these officials, police, military, yellow shirts, and red shirts and talks directly with them. When one person tells him a piece of information, then he verifies it with other sources. It is not an academic study of Thai politics, it is street level photo-journalism. And it's really good.

In the books, he periodically interjects his analysis - not only is it really valuable to you as a reader, but he also very clear when he does this so that there is no confusion between events that took place and his analysis of the events.

So, IMO, anyone who compares the writing of Robert Amsterdam and ASTV/TAN with Nick's books will clearly see the left, the right, and the objective.

[Crushdepth]

While the gf was flipping between news now I saw some from VoiceTV where a reporter in the field, during an introduction to people standing waist-high in flood water, talked for 40 second and 3(!) times mention 'Thaksin Shinawatra' (full name), and ends with 'So what do you want to tell Khun Thaksin' (said in Thai) and the man closest to the reporter in the group start to reply how grateful they where over Thaksin and how they want him to come back.

I tell you, it was freaking insane, scary and absolute nuts.

Yes, the channel is owned by members of the family itself, but this unhindered propaganda goes out 24/7.

Everyone has their propaganda channels. Look at The Nation ;-)

But this reminds me that I saw that ASTV satellite stopped broadcasting because Sondi owes 12m Bht to the satellite company. They are still broadcasting (internet, etc) but not on satellite.

And given how biased and agenda driven many media outlets are, it always makes me laugh when people here label someone like Nick Nostitz as biased. There you have someone who actually does the hard work, goes out, takes photos, documents, and reports on what he witnessed. He gets slammed from all sides because he is not aligned with one side or another.

Not biased? Oh come on, he has a pile of posts on here that speak otherwise.

[tlansford]

While the gf was flipping between news now I saw some from VoiceTV where a reporter in the field, during an introduction to people standing waist-high in flood water, talked for 40 second and 3(!) times mention 'Thaksin Shinawatra' (full name), and ends with 'So what do you want to tell Khun Thaksin' (said in Thai) and the man closest to the reporter in the group start to reply how grateful they where over Thaksin and how they want him to come back.

I tell you, it was freaking insane, scary and absolute nuts.

Yes, the channel is owned by members of the family itself, but this unhindered propaganda goes out 24/7.

Everyone has their propaganda channels. Look at The Nation ;-)

But this reminds me that I saw that ASTV satellite stopped broadcasting because Sondi owes 12m Bht to the satellite company. They are still broadcasting (internet, etc) but not on satellite.

And given how biased and agenda driven many media outlets are, it always makes me laugh when people here label someone like Nick Nostitz as biased. There you have someone who actually does the hard work, goes out, takes photos, documents, and reports on what he witnessed. He gets slammed from all sides because he is not aligned with one side or another.

Not biased? Oh come on, he has a pile of posts on here that speak otherwise.

.

I recommend that people read his books and verify for themselves what I wrote. Nick goes out, reports first-hand information, does the work of photojournalism, and then gives that information to the public.

After reading his books, people can decide for themselves whether or not Nick has an agenda - in the same way as Amsterdam, The Nation, ASTV, etc, have an agenda.

---- as for postings here ----

Sorry Crusheddepth. Anyone who is not biased and posts on TVF is labeled a red support. That's the unfortunate reality of this forum. I would correct your statement by saying "there are a pile of posters on here that say otherwise"

[TAWP]

Sorry Crusheddepth. Anyone who is not biased and posts on TVF is labeled a red support. That's the unfortunate reality of this forum.

That is pure and utter hogwash.

There are a lot of posters that are neither yellow nor red - but Nick (nor you) hasn't shown any attempts to be balanced in his (your) posts.

In my view: A balanced poster would be anti-yellow when their nonsense is reported - and anti-red when their nonsense when their nonsense is reported.

It is very easy to see what posters that fall into this category - and who does not.

[hanuman1]

Sorry Crusheddepth. Anyone who is not biased and posts on TVF is labeled a red support. That's the unfortunate reality of this forum.

That is pure and utter hogwash.

There are a lot of posters that are neither yellow nor red - but Nick (nor you) hasn't shown any attempts to be balanced in his (your) posts.

In my view: A balanced poster would be anti-yellow when their nonsense is reported - and anti-red when their nonsense when their nonsense is reported.

It is very easy to see what posters that fall into this category - and who does not.

To add to your view on what a balanced poster would do, I'd say they'd also be able to praise or point out clever/useful/constructive actions of the yellows or reds when they are made, as well as recognize nonsense if it is written about them.

[TAWP]

Sorry Crusheddepth. Anyone who is not biased and posts on TVF is labeled a red support. That's the unfortunate reality of this forum.

That is pure and utter hogwash.

There are a lot of posters that are neither yellow nor red - but Nick (nor you) hasn't shown any attempts to be balanced in his (your) posts.

In my view: A balanced poster would be anti-yellow when their nonsense is reported - and anti-red when their nonsense when their nonsense is reported.

It is very easy to see what posters that fall into this category - and who does not.

To add to your view on what a balanced poster would do, I'd say they'd also be able to praise or point out clever/useful/constructive actions of the yellows or reds when they are made, as well as recognize nonsense if it is written about them.

Agreed - if there was any.

[tlansford]

Sorry Crusheddepth. Anyone who is not biased and posts on TVF is labeled a red support. That's the unfortunate reality of this forum.

That is pure and utter hogwash.

There are a lot of posters that are neither yellow nor red - but Nick (nor you) hasn't shown any attempts to be balanced in his (your) posts.

In my view: A balanced poster would be anti-yellow when their nonsense is reported - and anti-red when their nonsense when their nonsense is reported.

It is very easy to see what posters that fall into this category - and who does not.

Thank you, TAWP for being so kind as to prove my point with a live example.

[looping]

IMO this has been a perfect opportunity for Thaksin to (partially) silence his critics by donating a few billion baht to help the people of Thailand and show how he really loves them.

His inaction speaks a thousand words, and more, yet people will blindly follow him for they respect only money and fear the loss of face from accepting the reality of his mission as it becomes clearer by the day, even to them.

To admit that you've been duped is a hard thing, too hard for many. And so it continues... So sad.

[gl555]

IMO this has been a perfect opportunity for Thaksin to (partially) silence his critics by donating a few billion baht to help the people of Thailand and show how he really loves them.

His inaction speaks a thousand words, and more, yet people will blindly follow him for they respect only money and fear the loss of face from accepting the reality of his mission as it becomes clearer by the day, even to them.

To admit that you've been duped is a hard thing, too hard for many. And so it continues... So sad.

Dude he gave up his premiership and his home to live abroad for those few billion baht! It would be morally wrong after giving up so much to actually give that money back to the people he stole from.

[rubl]

Academics see no basis to Army 'water coup' threat

By Pravit Rojanaphruk October 21, 2011 12:33 pm

People should not believe in conspiracy theories and rumours that the Army is sabotaging flood-protection efforts to unseat the Yingluck Shinawatra government, or other counter conspiracy theories, academics say.

The warning came after some red shirts began entertaining the idea the Army was disrupting flood-relief by putting in fewer officers and doing too little to help protect or reinforce flood barriers in various areas. This, they said, led to the total inundation of half a dozen industrial estates in Ayutthaya and Pathumthani provinces and affected hundreds of thousands of workers, seriously damaging the economy and the government.

"It makes no sense," Sirote Klampaiboon, a Mahidol University political scientist told The Nation.

Yesterday, red-shirt community radio FM92.25, broadcasting from Samut Prakan province, south of Bangkok, queried whether there was an attempt to unseat the Pheu Thai government through a coup by the Army and the established elite.

"Yesterday, many are asking whether the government is now facing a ’water coup d'etat,'" a female radio host said. She added that on April 10 last year, when soldiers were despatched to launch a bloody crackdown on red shirts their numbers were massive, contrary to the few soldiers she claimed were now battling the flood.

Sirote said such theories- including one held by yellow shirts that the government intentionally neglected the alleged advice of His Majesty the King to allow water from dams to be released much earlier - are simply not plausible. The academic said people must accept that the amount of rainfall this year was unprecedented. Even though he feels the government isn’t doing a good job at protecting some areas from the flood, the theories should still be regarded as "cheap conspiracies."

Kasetsart University red-shirt political scientist Kenkij Kitirianglarp concurs, saying it’s most unlikely that anyone, be it the Army or the government, would want to see such damage incurred on the Kingdom. Kenkij said the blame game should stop as it is clear Thailand lacked an integrated system to deal with flooding and that's not a problem of just this administration.

Sirote urged the government to declare a state of emergency in some provinces in order to effectively evacuate people. The emergency decree in limited areas would not allow the Army to seize control over the government as some pro-government red shirts feared.

-- The Nation 2011-10-21

[Buchholz]

IMO this has been a perfect opportunity for Thaksin to (partially) silence his critics by donating a few billion baht to help the people of Thailand and show how he really loves them.

His inaction speaks a thousand words, and more, yet people will blindly follow him for they respect only money and fear the loss of face from accepting the reality of his mission as it becomes clearer by the day, even to them.

To admit that you've been duped is a hard thing, too hard for many. And so it continues... So sad.

By the latest interview with him, he could give a Trillion Baht, and still be a Billionaire.

*signature updated*