Pheu Thai And Red Shirts Do Nothing To Help Their Own

[monkfish]

How do you conspiracy theorist explain this photo then? Also photoshopped?

Tell me which bit you want changing!

[whybother]

Thank you for expressly demonstrating one possible explanation for the photo. It is hard to imagine people being so callous in a natural disaster.

And thank for "TomnearCentral" for clearly demonstrating how callous some red shirts are in a natural disaster.

[TomnearCentral]

How do you conspiracy theorist explain this photo then? Also photoshopped?

Tell me which bit you want changing!

The white stickers on the boats please, thanks.

By the way, I can do that myself as well, but it would not look and be real. And I doubt that you could do a better job than me but please go ahead and prove me wrong!

[nicknostitz]

How do you conspiracy theorist explain this photo then? Also photoshopped?

If I am not mistaken, the location is at the elephant building at the Lardprao/Pahon Yothin intersection, and this is where i have seen a team of a Red Shirt community radio station being positioned. Neither run by either the UDD or the government. Just a small team that does things on their own.

[monkfish]

Thank you for expressly demonstrating one possible explanation for the photo. It is hard to imagine people being so callous in a natural disaster.

And thank for "TomnearCentral" for clearly demonstrating how callous some red shirts are in a natural disaster.

Is it the Red Shirts who spreading rumours and lies? or who is doing that and why?

[hanuman1]

How do you conspiracy theorist explain this photo then? Also photoshopped?

That does look pretty similar to the content of the other photo. I wonder which Red faction this is? The sign on the back of the truck says 'Niti...or' (the rest is illegible). The registration plate is from Phrae province.

Edited October 29, 2011 by hanuman1

[Gweiloman]

Thank you for expressly demonstrating one possible explanation for the photo. It is hard to imagine people being so callous in a natural disaster.

And thank for "TomnearCentral" for clearly demonstrating how callous some red shirts are in a natural disaster.

For the sake of objectivity and balance, shouldn't your comment be "And thank for "TomnearCentral" for clearly demonstrating how callous some red shirts are in a natural disaster."

You wouldn't want anyone thinking that you are blinkered to any other possibility, right?

Edited October 29, 2011 by Gweiloman

[serenitynow]

How do you conspiracy theorist explain this photo then? Also photoshopped?

If I am not mistaken, the location is at the elephant building at the Lardprao/Pahon Yothin intersection, and this is where i have seen a team of a Red Shirt community radio station being positioned. Neither run by either the UDD or the government. Just a small team that does things on their own.

And for what purpose do they claim to be there Nick?

[whybother]

Is it the Red Shirts who spreading rumours and lies? or who is doing that and why?

It is clearly a red shirt truck. Unless someone is driving trucks around the floods pretending to be red shirts.

For the sake of objectivity and balance, shouldn't your comment be "And thank for "TomnearCentral" for clearly demonstrating how callous some red shirts are in a natural disaster."

If you can show me evidence of others with "<name a group> only" then I will be more general with my comments. Since this is a red shirt boat with "red shirts only" on it, then I will talk about some red shirts being callous.

[TomnearCentral]

It is really unbelievable......

You could show some people Youtube-Videos of Red Shirt leaders promoting violence and the burning of a City, but they would still question if this really happened. Oh, wait....

Surely they were "Fake Reds" that did it.

Thank you for expressly demonstrating one possible explanation for the photo. It is hard to imagine people being so callous in a natural disaster.

And thank for "TomnearCentral" for clearly demonstrating how callous some red shirts are in a natural disaster.

For the sake of objectivity and balance, shouldn't your comment be "And thank for "TomnearCentral" for clearly demonstrating how callous some red shirts are in a natural disaster."

You wouldn't want anyone thinking that you are blinkered to any other possibility, right?

[serenitynow]

Thank you for expressly demonstrating one possible explanation for the photo. It is hard to imagine people being so callous in a natural disaster.

And thank for "TomnearCentral" for clearly demonstrating how callous some red shirts are in a natural disaster.

For the sake of objectivity and balance, shouldn't your comment be "And thank for "TomnearCentral" for clearly demonstrating how callous some red shirts are in a natural disaster."

You wouldn't want anyone thinking that you are blinkered to any other possibility, right?

You're not going to use the fake moon landing being shot in a movie studio as an example are you? I hope not because I've allowed myself to be blinkered to that possibility for 42 years now.

[monkfish]

Took the liberty of making a translation for those who do not speak Thai.

Have to admit I also couldn't get the reflection of the white sticker right so left it out.

P.S. aren't reflections normally reversed??

Anyway not to confuse people as being original I watermarked it.

Thank you for expressly demonstrating one possible explanation for the photo. It is hard to imagine people being so callous in a natural disaster.

The only real real way to tell if a digital image is real would be if it taken taken in RAW format on a Camera with Digital Authentication turned ON.

Mostly only Pro cameras have this feature for Journalists to prove there picture are Authentic.

Even then only the manufacturer can Authenticate the image. Its uses kind of a digital certificate.

Edited October 29, 2011 by monkfish

[nicknostitz]

How do you conspiracy theorist explain this photo then? Also photoshopped?

If I am not mistaken, the location is at the elephant building at the Lardprao/Pahon Yothin intersection, and this is where i have seen a team of a Red Shirt community radio station being positioned. Neither run by either the UDD or the government. Just a small team that does things on their own.

And for what purpose do they claim to be there Nick?

They are there with boats, and donation packages, so i guess, using my Einsteinian powers of deduction - they are there for ... flood relief work.

But yes, if these stickers are indeed on their boats, and if they also do exclude non-Red Shirts in their relief work, this would be quite scandalous. And it would be against stated UDD policy, and does not reflect what i have seen on the ground, where Red Shirts have helped regardless of color, and who have also worked together with the military.

Satisfied?

[rubl]

How do you conspiracy theorist explain this photo then? Also photoshopped?

If I am not mistaken, the location is at the elephant building at the Lardprao/Pahon Yothin intersection, and this is where i have seen a team of a Red Shirt community radio station being positioned. Neither run by either the UDD or the government. Just a small team that does things on their own.

OK, just some unrelated red-shirt individuals. Makes sense

[serenitynow]

How do you conspiracy theorist explain this photo then? Also photoshopped?

If I am not mistaken, the location is at the elephant building at the Lardprao/Pahon Yothin intersection, and this is where i have seen a team of a Red Shirt community radio station being positioned. Neither run by either the UDD or the government. Just a small team that does things on their own.

And for what purpose do they claim to be there Nick?

They are there with boats, and donation packages, so i guess, using my Einsteinian powers of deduction - they are there for ... flood relief work.

But yes, if these stickers are indeed on their boats, and if they also do exclude non-Red Shirts in their relief work, this would be quite scandalous. And it would be against stated UDD policy, and does not reflect what i have seen on the ground, where Red Shirts have helped regardless of color, and who have also worked together with the military.

Satisfied?

Yes I am. I have always said that I thought you were a very fair reporter in documenting events you have witnessed personally.

[nicknostitz]

Yes I am. I have always said that I thought you were a very fair reporter in documenting events you have witnessed personally.

Thanks.

[Gweiloman]

If you can show me evidence of others with "<name a group> only" then I will be more general with my comments. Since this is a red shirt boat with "red shirts only" on it, then I will talk about some red shirts being callous.

It is really unbelievable......

You could show some people Youtube-Videos of Red Shirt leaders promoting violence and the burning of a City, but they would still question if this really happened. Oh, wait....

Surely they were "Fake Reds" that did it.

You guys really ARE blinkered that you can't read beyond what you want to read. The fact is that in any disaster, anywhere in the world, some people will be callous enough to try and benefit from it (there is another thread about landlords - are you saying they are all red shirts?).

[nurofiend]

How do you conspiracy theorist explain this photo then? Also photoshopped?

If I am not mistaken, the location is at the elephant building at the Lardprao/Pahon Yothin intersection, and this is where i have seen a team of a Red Shirt community radio station being positioned. Neither run by either the UDD or the government. Just a small team that does things on their own.

OK, just some unrelated red-shirt individuals. Makes sense

Does it make more sense and convenience to you that all red shirts have the exact same mind and no individual thought's or actions?

i guess it does

ps not defending the stickers etc etc blah blah blah

Edited October 29, 2011 by nurofiend

[GentlemanJim]

How do you conspiracy theorist explain this photo then? Also photoshopped?

If I am not mistaken, the location is at the elephant building at the Lardprao/Pahon Yothin intersection, and this is where i have seen a team of a Red Shirt community radio station being positioned. Neither run by either the UDD or the government. Just a small team that does things on their own.

OK, just some unrelated red-shirt individuals. Makes sense

Does it make more sense and convenience to you that all red shirts have the exact same mind and no individual thought's or actions?

i guess it does

ps not defending the stickers etc etc blah blah blah

well from my point of view being neither red or yellow or pink or blue, it does seem that the reds are a bit like the Borg!

[serenitynow]

If you can show me evidence of others with "<name a group> only" then I will be more general with my comments. Since this is a red shirt boat with "red shirts only" on it, then I will talk about some red shirts being callous.

It is really unbelievable......

You could show some people Youtube-Videos of Red Shirt leaders promoting violence and the burning of a City, but they would still question if this really happened. Oh, wait....

Surely they were "Fake Reds" that did it.

You guys really ARE blinkered that you can't read beyond what you want to read. The fact is that in any disaster, anywhere in the world, some people will be callous enough to try and benefit from it (there is another thread about landlords - are you saying they are all red shirts?).

I'd like you to take a look at this and then re-present your argument. Thanks.

http://philosophy.hk.../think/fallacy/

Edited October 29, 2011 by serenitynow

[rubl]

How do you conspiracy theorist explain this photo then? Also photoshopped?

If I am not mistaken, the location is at the elephant building at the Lardprao/Pahon Yothin intersection, and this is where i have seen a team of a Red Shirt community radio station being positioned. Neither run by either the UDD or the government. Just a small team that does things on their own.

OK, just some unrelated red-shirt individuals. Makes sense

Does it make more sense and convenience to you that all red shirts have the exact same mind and no individual thought's or actions?

i guess it does

ps not defending the stickers etc etc blah blah blah

It doesn't. I was talking about this particular situation, photo, NN's comment. Any extrapolation you think you can do from there is strictly your opinion.

No offence, but keeping an eye on the flooding / non-flooding situation makes a wee bit more sense at this moment. Written from a (luckily) still dry Khet Dusit

[whybother]

If you can show me evidence of others with "<name a group> only" then I will be more general with my comments. Since this is a red shirt boat with "red shirts only" on it, then I will talk about some red shirts being callous.

It is really unbelievable......

You could show some people Youtube-Videos of Red Shirt leaders promoting violence and the burning of a City, but they would still question if this really happened. Oh, wait....

Surely they were "Fake Reds" that did it.

You guys really ARE blinkered that you can't read beyond what you want to read. The fact is that in any disaster, anywhere in the world, some people will be callous enough to try and benefit from it (there is another thread about landlords - are you saying they are all red shirts?).

We're talking about red shirts. If we started talking about landlords, we'd be O/T.

[Publicus]

You missed the boat in your remarks about the OP as a journalist. The test of the OP's opinion piece is whether it is provably false or whether it was written with a reckless disregard of the facts. That's the standard of modern jounalism and has been so for 40 years. Yet I continually read forumists here who attack legitimate journalism as it appears in the Nation. The Nation, as with the BP, practice modern journalism, which presents sound reasoning based on facts. That is the contemporary standard of English language journalism globally. The contemporary standard also extends to newspapers in foreign democracies. Some democracies have more strict laws of libel and slander, others less strict laws. Thailand has some certain speech laws that are strictly enforced but Thailand, on the whole, also has a vibrant and free press which managed to survive the varieties of insidious and pernicious censorship practiced by Thaksin during his rule.

The days of the objective, facts only, balanced news story are the bad old days of pretensions, of a false propriety and of outright tomfoolery. I'm pleased to say the illusion of a factual, objective and "balanced" news story or editorial were left behind long ago. The old primary school level of journalism and the body politic is kaput. Get used to it. The facts of journalism are that the Nation and the BP are respectable newspapers that publish respectable opinion.

I believe you confuse gutter journalism with modern journalism. There are many very interesting publications that have vibrant, modern approaches to journalism. None of them in Thailand can hold themselves long though, and are most definitely not to be found in either the Nation or in the Bangkok Post, which, by international standards, are so bad that you cannot even call them antiquated. And no - neither the Nation nor the Bangkok Post have ever been proponents of modern journalism. Thailand has far better publications in the newspaper genre anyhow, such as Matichon or Thai Rath.

The few good journalists at the Nation and the Bangkok Post do unfortunately not change this sad fact. Go to India for excellent newspapers, and to a free and vibrant press, if we want to stay in this part of the world.

If you want to read modern journalism you have to read for example Germany's Lettre for top standard journalism, or Colors in his heyday for extremely modern magazine journalism.

And in the world of journalism i am working, that is international publications, the fact based story is far from dead. Several publications i regularly work with have entire departments that are checking facts of each single story before it goes to print. Journalists that are liberal with facts are soon out of job and their reputations destroyed, and even possible legal consequences follow, if found out.

Anyhow, here a few beauties of Thanong that are provably false, with reckless disregard of the facts, or simply idiotic:

Thanong:

The police force is an idle watcher of the tragedy.

False.

The police is actively working in the flood districts. I have been with police officers patrolling on boats inundated neighborhoods, trying to guard them against thieves. I have photos of police officers helping people evacuate, both on boats and lorries. Etc.

In most countries in the world it is anyhow soldiers that are foremost asked to do disaster relief work. Police has still their regular duties to perform.

Thanong:

Korbsak Sabhavasu, the Democrat's strategist,

...who with his antiquated and completely confuse election campaign strategies has strongly contributed to the election loss of the Democrats. I shudder seeing this man in charge of anything. I could tell you a few more funny stories about him.

Thanong:

Pheu Thai MPs and ministers are not helping flood victims. They are nowhere to be seen. Where are they?

False, and the answer: out there working. I have seen Sae Daeng's daughter inspecting one of the worst areas. Today i have seen the Dusit Pueah Thai MP at the breach at Samsen Soi 21, inspecting the repair works by soldiers and residents. She was in the water. They may not have the time to drop into Thanong's office so he can see them.

Thanong:

Red-shirt leaders have not come out to help those affected by the floods either.

Entirely false. They have been helping since the beginning of the floods, both being on the ground (as can be seen on their TV station), and managing donation centers, lead relief teams, collect donations for victims, etc.

Thanong:

At the same time, Pheu Thai wants to go against the military by pushing for legislation to nullify the coup in 2006. Jatuporn Promphan, a red-shirt leader, is trying to have the Defence Ministry's regulations amended so that the government can have more control over the reshuffling of military posts

That attempt to reign in the military has already begun long before the floods. And what is so wrong about having a military under control of elected governments?

Thanong:

Yingluck has refused international assistance although Thailand is facing bankruptcy from the floods. I was told that Ban Ki-moon, the secretary-general of the United Nations, asked the prime minister how the UN could help. Yingluck's response was to the effect that UN assistance would not be needed. The US offered to send aircraft carriers, which were also refused. Why did she refuse international assistance, which now has to go through private channels rather than official channels.

Where has the Thai Government refused international assistance, please? The US ambassador has already stated that the article by AFP about the refusal of the aircraft carrier is false. In FROC are international experts. etc.

And is UN assistance needed now? I see so far the authorities handling the mess quite well. On the ground things are as well ordered as can be under the circumstances.

Thanong:

Who are the invisible hands who apparently have a malicious intent for Thailand?

If you, dear "Publicus" are calling this ending "modern journalism", then you have me baffled. I call this right wing loony conspiracy theory rubbish.

You will note that I said the basis of modern journalism is "sound reasoning based on facts." (I am indeed aware of fact checking and fact checkers, thank you.) You of course recognize I am posting about general circulation daily and Sunday newspapers. As to specialization, reading the Economist or watching Bloomberg, I get a lot of facts, sources, and much else too by way of opinion (along with the appropriate disclaimers).

I take it that by "gutter journalism" you refer to the Murdoch clan and Board of Directors (excepting the WSJ)?

I think we also could agree that Journalism in a democracy such as Thailand's is comparable to the parliamentary system. As we would not expect the Thai parliamentary system to be of the same caliber and quality as that of the UK (ahem), neither should we expect Thai English language journalism to be on a par with the Times whether in London or New York - or the Washington Post for that matter. In 2007 after Thaksin was kicked out of Hong Kong, Phillip Bowering wrote an opinion column in the South China Morning Post that, if the former PM were to return to Thailand, he might do well to have learned something of the democratic government of HKG and to consider some of it as perhaps suitable to Thailand.

[nurofiend]

It doesn't. I was talking about this particular situation, photo, NN's comment. Any extrapolation you think you can do from there is strictly your opinion.

No offence, but keeping an eye on the flooding / non-flooding situation makes a wee bit more sense at this moment. Written from a (luckily) still dry Khet Dusit

whatever

and no offence, but you can save your usual and predictable topic changing attempt to take the moral high ground in the conclusion of your post, for a thread that is about keeping on eye on the flooding... *smiley face*

[letitbe]

Sorry I do miss the certain point. Govt should not label donations from others as from any individual.

But I see people do this times and times again. Now it's the highlight because the situation is big and people need somewhere to put their anger. And it's being flamed actively by a few. I can only think of it as another political game.

Btw, I just watched the actual video clip. That's inappropriate.

About the info source, TV3, TPBS and CH9 tend to be more objective. The rest has their sides.

"Govt should not label donations from others as from any individual." - That's correct. To suggest that my donation to the people that I gave through the government is from anyone else but "The Government" is absolutely wrong.

Labeling goods donated by the people as being from PT or from Thaksin is the "political game".

give up who cares anymore Taksin and his tribe can steal lie cheat do whatever and people in north will love him for ever Dont you know he paid all thai debts with his own money everyone here knows that why dont you know that. Im just sick of them and hope they sink in their own vile corrupt filth but in meantime I live here with my family and hope one day Thailand will see the end of this most dangerous and evil despot. I dont hold out a lot of hope though and made our preparations should we be forced to leave instead of living under a Taksin state. Only good thing is I will laugh when all Taksin and red supporters here suddenly wake up and understand they have been totally fooled but of course like me they can just leave but I feel really sad that my Thai family will also have to leave or cow tow to a pol pot type of government. Their may be hope in south where people are not just taksins sheep.

[Buchholz]

How do you conspiracy theorist explain this photo then? Also photoshopped?

Now that there are multiple images of these boats (besides your example), they'll be forced to claim they are all fake.

Most likely made by fake Red Shirts.

.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Buchholz

[rubl]

It doesn't. I was talking about this particular situation, photo, NN's comment. Any extrapolation you think you can do from there is strictly your opinion.

No offence, but keeping an eye on the flooding / non-flooding situation makes a wee bit more sense at this moment. Written from a (luckily) still dry Khet Dusit

whatever

and no offence, but you can save your usual and predictable topic changing attempt to take the moral high ground in the conclusion of your post, for a thread that is about keeping on eye on the flooding... *smiley face*

Amazing! Truly amazing! We agree on one thing: whatever

[nurofiend]

It doesn't. I was talking about this particular situation, photo, NN's comment. Any extrapolation you think you can do from there is strictly your opinion.

No offence, but keeping an eye on the flooding / non-flooding situation makes a wee bit more sense at this moment. Written from a (luckily) still dry Khet Dusit

whatever

and no offence, but you can save your usual and predictable topic changing attempt to take the moral high ground in the conclusion of your post, for a thread that is about keeping on eye on the flooding... *smiley face*

Amazing! Truly amazing! We agree on one thing: whatever

Why don't we focus on what's really important, the welfare of the people...i'm sure we are both more concerned over that more than anything else :)

[monkfish]

How do you conspiracy theorist explain this photo then? Also photoshopped?

Tell me which bit you want changing!

The white stickers on the boats please, thanks.

By the way, I can do that myself as well, but it would not look and be real. And I doubt that you could do a better job than me but please go ahead and prove me wrong!

Its obvious the first picture is a fake but the second picture not so clear because it's not on water.

But any way even if the sticker is true they are also clearly transporting Non RED shirt people.

What's funny are the touches of RED to the original picture to make it more authentic

But anyway YES I could fake it and you would not know the difference. It would take

about 4-5 hours to reconstruct the boats in 3D and then Photoshop them together.

I worked in Special effects bussiness for a long time and can make a pig talk if you want.

Question is how much is somebody prepared to spend making fake pictures?

[DP25]

But any way even if the sticker is true they are also clearly transporting Non RED shirt people.

I didn't think red shirts were required to wear red 24/7, yet