Double Pricing At Palm Hills Hua Hin...

[richard_smith237]

My wife and turned up at Palm Hills For a round of golf....

When I asked why my green fees are more expensive I was told it's because I am a faring!

After speaking with the manager I was told I could play at the Thai price and I received a card telling me to contact them directly next time I want the Thai price.

I had to tell them that the reason I wished to complain was not that I wanted the Thai price but to let them know their policy is racist and insulting. That is why I won't spend any money there at all, and that I'll inform everyone I know of their unfair policy against non nationals.

So. Palm Hills Golf course in Hua Hin charges foreigners more, this is further confirmed on their web page.

[Forethat]

Been there, done that - walked away, that is...

I never figured out why they have this policy, as I was never bothered to try, I simply opted for other courses in the area.

[richard_smith237]

From what I saw the course was mostly full of Westerners. I'm sure they would have encountered double pricing and either didn't know, or didn't care.

Had many Westerners walked away in the past I'm sure the golf course wouldn't maintain this policy. However, I'm sure the golf course really couldn't care less about a handful of people walking off the course. I'm sure they thought I was a 'stupid farang' after I told them I don't need their business card and I don't need the Thai price, I wont be playing there at all....

It might be cutting my nose of to spite my face at times, but I much prefer to walk away than contribute to such policies.

Edited October 28, 2011 by richard_smith237

[GeorgeO]

From what I saw the course was mostly full of Westerners. I'm sure they would have encountered double pricing and either didn't know, or didn't care.

Had many Westerners walked away in the past I'm sure the golf course wouldn't maintain this policy. However, I'm sure the golf course really couldn't care less about a handful of people walking off the course. I'm sure they thought I was a 'stupid farang' after I told them I don't need their business card and I don't need the Thai price, I wont be playing there at all....

It might be cutting my nose of to spite my face at times, but I much prefer to walk away than contribute to such policies.

Richard,

I agree entirely. I have been advocating walking away from any golf course which adopts such a pricing policy for years, but I still see many farangs choosing to put it with it; that is why it still happens.

Kudos to Justin Strachan and Nat Aksornchart at Thana City GSC in Bangkok who have cleared away the old pricing system and put in place a level playing field for all! I just wish other golf course managers would take a leaf out of their book and then see the subsequent outcome ... over 150 rounds per day sold.

[bkkjames]

Never could understand this-i take half as many shots as most locals and get charges 2x as much.

[jeffgood]

Won't be going there then...

[Thailand]

Perhaps a pinned listing of courses all over Thailand that have this policy?

[LarryBird]

Good for you.

[kenny999]

Been there, done that - walked away, that is...

I never figured out why they have this policy, as I was never bothered to try, I simply opted for other courses in the area.

I agree it is insulting but as we all know they have duel pricing because in Thai's eyes we are all filthy rich, my local course is nearly always empty but instead of lowering the price which would attract many they put the price up absolutely crazy!!! I will not play any course that has the nerve to say "you pay more because you are farang" <deleted> off!!!

[mark5335]

Palm Hills is a relatively boring layout compared with other courses in the area. If you plan avoiding the place due to their double-pricing policy, rest assured you not missing much .

[hehehoho]

What a joke this is.

When I was in Uni growing up in Europe I had a Uni card. I used to go to the golf clubs and pay the student price. Why? Because it was perceived that as a student I had less money than other players. A simple look at my car would have told them that wasn't even close to the reality.

Did I hear other players storming off, or complaining because they had to pay more* because the business owners perceived them as being richer? Of course not.

*I forget the rates but they possibly had to pay double the price I had to, because the business thought they had more money.

Companies here are gracious enough to offer locals lower prices as they perceive that for the most part, they are poorer, be it true or not. Just like the businesses in the West offer Uni students discounts because they perceive them to be poorer, so the average customer is charged up to double for the same product or service.

Edited October 30, 2011 by hehehoho

[GarryP]

^And the point is? How does this relate to an issue of student cards? I'm sure the OP would have no problem paying the regular rate (if there was a single rate for Thais and foreigners alike) and allowing students (regardless of race) to play for half price. Comparing apples with bananas?

[hehehoho]

^And the point is? How does this relate to an issue of student cards? I'm sure the OP would have no problem paying the regular rate (if there was a single rate for Thais and foreigners alike) and allowing students (regardless of race) to play for half price. Comparing apples with bananas?

I disagree.

One set of people are perceived to have more money and have to pay more.

It is the exact same with golf courses in the West as I have exampled.

The difference is that I have never seen any of the perceived richer players storm out of a Western golf club because they had to pay more (double!) the other players who were perceived to be poorer.

[zorro1]

Just like most places that charge more for westerners, they couldn't give a rats arse if you never come back, that's why its still a developing country..

[richard_smith237]

What a joke this is.

When I was in Uni growing up in Europe I had a Uni card. I used to go to the golf clubs and pay the student price. Why? Because it was perceived that as a student I had less money than other players. A simple look at my car would have told them that wasn't even close to the reality.

Did I hear other players storming off, or complaining because they had to pay more* because the business owners perceived them as being richer? Of course not.

*I forget the rates but they possibly had to pay double the price I had to, because the business thought they had more money.

Companies here are gracious enough to offer locals lower prices as they perceive that for the most part, they are poorer, be it true or not. Just like the businesses in the West offer Uni students discounts because they perceive them to be poorer, so the average customer is charged up to double for the same product or service.

Your counter discussion is fundamentally flawed: You didn't pay less because you are a white student while the black students were paying more though... Correct ?

I expect no special treatment, nothing more or nothing less than that afforded to anyone else (and by that I mean locals). However, If a golf course wishes to promote a student price or offer a promotion for using a certain credit cards I have no issue as these are not race or nation specific policies.

In a very similar manner: My friend wished to promote a 'buy one get one free' for foreigners to attract more foreigners to the bar. I was the one who stood up and pointed out how unfair this was to the existing customers and how insulting it was to Thai's... I insisted in a 'buy one get one free' for everyone if he wished to offer such a promotion.

I'll not stand for unfair treatment whichever way round it works.

[hehehoho]

Just like most places that charge more for westerners, they couldn't give a rats arse if you never come back, that's why its still a developing country..

That's the main barrier?

Edited October 30, 2011 by hehehoho

[richard_smith237]

Just like most places that charge more for westerners, they couldn't give a rats arse if you never come back, that's why its still a developing country..

That's the main barrier?

Of course not. An while not wishing to push this thread off topic and into a politically motivated discussion - Greed does play a roll in the prevention of the development of a nation.

[hehehoho]

What a joke this is.

When I was in Uni growing up in Europe I had a Uni card. I used to go to the golf clubs and pay the student price. Why? Because it was perceived that as a student I had less money than other players. A simple look at my car would have told them that wasn't even close to the reality.

Did I hear other players storming off, or complaining because they had to pay more* because the business owners perceived them as being richer? Of course not.

*I forget the rates but they possibly had to pay double the price I had to, because the business thought they had more money.

Companies here are gracious enough to offer locals lower prices as they perceive that for the most part, they are poorer, be it true or not. Just like the businesses in the West offer Uni students discounts because they perceive them to be poorer, so the average customer is charged up to double for the same product or service.

Your counter discussion is fundamentally flawed: You didn't pay less because you are a white student while the black students were paying more though... Correct ?

I expect no special treatment, nothing more or nothing less than that afforded to anyone else (and by that I mean locals). However, If a golf course wishes to promote a student price or offer a promotion for using a certain credit cards I have no issue as these are not race or nation specific policies.

In a very similar manner: My friend wished to promote a 'buy one get one free' for foreigners to attract more foreigners to the bar. I was the one who stood up and pointed out how unfair this was to the existing customers and how insulting it was to Thai's... I insisted in a 'buy one get one free' for everyone if he wished to offer such a promotion.

I'll not stand for unfair treatment whichever way round it works.

You seem to be basing your opinion on the concept of them charging Thais less simply on skin colour, not that their perceived beliefs are about the financial being of those other than Thais.

I don't believe they charge foreigners more/Thais less because of the colour of their skin, they do it because they perceive foreigners to have more money. As simple as that.

The exact same goes for golf courses in the West. They charge a group of people more than others, based on what they perceive their income to be. No difference.

Do you actually believe that Thai courses charge more simply because you have a difference ethnicity , or because they believe those of your ethnicity generally have a much better financial standing and income?

Surely you don't believe perceived wealth has nothing to do with it? Do you?

Edited October 30, 2011 by hehehoho

[femi fan]

It's the capitalist system our dear world operates under isn't it... get as much money as you think the market will bear.

It seems clear to me that this golf course are actually charging higher prices for TOURISTS, rather than farang in general, since once you queried it they were willing to charge you the same as thais.

If i'm wrong, and they simply wish to charge all farangs more than thais, then i agree that it's worth just walking away.

But if it's tourists that get charged more, then the debate changes really.

Having said all that, it is still difficult to stomach different prices for different people, whatever the reason (except for discounts for kids, students etc). But if it's a tourism issue, then this is not uniquely a thai thing at all.

[beano2274]

The foreigners playing golf that you saw, did not know about the dual pricing as they probably have no Thais playing with them or cannot read the Thai price list.

I notice many tourist attractions use the aforementioned practice (prices in Thai) so that foreigners do not know they are paying more.

[richard_smith237]

What a joke this is.

When I was in Uni growing up in Europe I had a Uni card. I used to go to the golf clubs and pay the student price. Why? Because it was perceived that as a student I had less money than other players. A simple look at my car would have told them that wasn't even close to the reality.

Did I hear other players storming off, or complaining because they had to pay more* because the business owners perceived them as being richer? Of course not.

*I forget the rates but they possibly had to pay double the price I had to, because the business thought they had more money.

Companies here are gracious enough to offer locals lower prices as they perceive that for the most part, they are poorer, be it true or not. Just like the businesses in the West offer Uni students discounts because they perceive them to be poorer, so the average customer is charged up to double for the same product or service.

Your counter discussion is fundamentally flawed: You didn't pay less because you are a white student while the black students were paying more though... Correct ?

I expect no special treatment, nothing more or nothing less than that afforded to anyone else (and by that I mean locals). However, If a golf course wishes to promote a student price or offer a promotion for using a certain credit cards I have no issue as these are not race or nation specific policies.

In a very similar manner: My friend wished to promote a 'buy one get one free' for foreigners to attract more foreigners to the bar. I was the one who stood up and pointed out how unfair this was to the existing customers and how insulting it was to Thai's... I insisted in a 'buy one get one free' for everyone if he wished to offer such a promotion.

I'll not stand for unfair treatment whichever way round it works.

You seem to be basing your opinion on the concept of them charging Thais less simply on skin colour, not that their perceived beliefs are about the financial being of those other than Thais.

I don't believe they charge foreigners more/Thais less because of the colour of their skin, they do it because they perceive foreigners to have more money. As simple as that.

The exact same goes for golf courses in the West. They charge a group of people more than others, based on what they perceive their income to be. No difference.

Do you actually believe that Thai courses charge more simply because you have a difference ethnicity , or because they believe those of your ethnicity generally have a much better financial standing and income?

Surely you don't believe perceived wealth has nothing to do with it? Do you?

I see your point. And I agree. It's likely they are charging us more, not because they dislike foreigners, but simply because they perceive that we can pay more.

While that might explain the policy, does that make the policy correct or fair or even legal?

I thought it wasn't fair and chose to vote with my feet regardless of how readily I could afford the subtle increase in price.

If many other foreigners did the same and the 'Golf Club' no longer thought that foreigners are the wealthy, money spreading beacons of austerity and affluence they initially had, would the Golf Club perhaps be inclined to level out their fees?

While we are on this subject of perceived wealth - have you seen the cars parked in the golf clubs? I'm sure the management are under no illusion that their Thai members are poor. It is more apparent that they have simply applied a blanket opportunistic policy without a great deal of thought. If this policy were applied in reverse I do wonder if the Thai Golfers would accept it with the same level of tolerance many foreigners appear to.

[hehehoho]

The foreigners playing golf that you saw, did not know about the dual pricing as they probably have no Thais playing with them or cannot read the Thai price list.

I notice many tourist attractions use the aforementioned practice (prices in Thai) so that foreigners do not know they are paying more.

Or to make sure that all the Thais can read their own price.

It's funny to read of people complaining about Thai pricing guides being written in their own language.

The cheek of it, using their own language, alphabet and numerals.

Edited October 30, 2011 by hehehoho

[GarryP]

The irony of it all is that the average Thai golfer is not your average Thai. A great number of Thai golfers are earning just as much as the foreigner on the course. Have you ever seen a Thai factory worker hitting a round? If it is a perception of the foreigner earning more than the locals (golfers) then it is misplaced. More than likely it is a simple matter of "if they can get away with it, why not?", rather than intentional racism. Doesn't make it right though and if I played golf I would not patronize such a place.

[richard_smith237]

Hehehoho again makes a fair point. However, It's not the prices appearing in Thai which I complain about. Rather, it's the addition surcharges charged to foreigners I object to.

Hehehoho, I ask you this. If you were shopping in Tesco's, bought a coke and was charged extra because you are not Thai, would this be acceptable or would you choose to shop else where?

A question for the thread: Regardless of whether or not its enforced (many laws are not); Is double pricing illegal in Thailand?

[chuckd]

I have used my Thai driver's license to get the Thai admission price at government run parks and other venues.

I have further heard the Thai driver's license works at some golf courses and you get the local price.

Has anybody tried it and, if not, why not? Give it a go and see what happens.

[richard_smith237]

My Thai drivers licence didn't help.

My complaint to the management did help and I was offered the Thai price.

But to be honest, as soon as they mentioned the double pricing policy at the green fees desk I knew I wasn't going to spend any money there on principle.

[femi fan]

Hehehoho again makes a fair point. However, It's not the prices appearing in Thai which I complain about. Rather, it's the addition surcharges charged to foreigners I object to.

Hehehoho, I ask you this. If you were shopping in Tesco's, bought a coke and was charged extra because you are not Thai, would this be acceptable or would you choose to shop else where?

A question for the thread: Regardless of whether or not its enforced (many laws are not); Is double pricing illegal in Thailand?

I suggest this higher pricing is a result of two kinds of thinking:

make extra money out of tourists

make as much money as you think the market will bear

Here in chiang mai, it is very clear to all (perhaps an improvement over palm hills in hua hin) that local prices are for thais and anybody else who lives here, while any higher prices that exist are for tourists, especially in high season.

Tourists the world over are fleeced in several areas of life. This is the capitalist model of human life kicking in: they have more money to burn than people busy working and getting by in life, and they are not thinking as clearly as normal, due to being on a holiday and in a foreign place.

Legality issues are prompted by governments and agencies well out of sight of ordinary citizens. Frequently the citizens, operating in real life and in the market, turn a blind eye to laws. This is both advantageous and disadvantageous, depending on who you are.

I think what sticks in the craw of western folk living here in thailand is that tiered pricing is perceived (from a subconscious zone) as non-democratic, unfair, and just fundamentally wrong. However, democracy and the model of capitalism we live under often diverge in life.

And yes, it becomes kind or ironical when i think of my salary here in thailand (teacher) and compare it to thais who play golf, who are often very rich people indeed. But tiered pricing in golf here is not golf thinking, it's get-away-with-what-you-can thinking.

What palm hills should do is make clear to all farang living in hua hin that they get the locals' price, not the tourists' price.

[femi fan]

My Thai drivers licence didn't help.

My complaint to the management did help and I was offered the Thai price.

But to be honest, as soon as they mentioned the double pricing policy at the green fees desk I knew I wasn't going to spend any money there on principle.

I used to do the same at national parks. And there it's 10 or 20 times pricing, not mere doubling!

But our principles are surely based on our beliefs and understandings, both of which come out of our past. Once new understandings and ideas become known to us, can we not then change our principles to adapt?

To be honest, playing golf in chiang mai would be out of my price range - even at locals' price - were it not for various courses offering very decent membership deals. I wonder if hua hin courses offer decent membership deals?

And don't forget, that one could lose a highly enjoyable round of golf over one's principles -principle remains intact, but no delightful feelings that pars and birdies engender occur! I have also found that applying our western principles to life in thailand can have the effect of chopping off one's own neck...!

[LarryBird]

I paid more for my round in NZ because I was a foreigner. To OP, all they would have to change is to make their rates to 'Thai Citizens'. That is actually the way it was in NZ.

Also, I should add, the multiple prices is actually part of a field called 'Revenue Management'. Courses try to add multiple tiers to their pricing in order to stratify the market.

At the same time though, I understand people not liking it. As always, no one's putting a gun to your head, you refused to play the game, and I respect that.

Edited October 31, 2011 by LarryBird

[chuckd]

Following is an interesting article that says residents of St. Andrews pay 180 GBP annually to play all seven courses in St. Andrews.

______________________________________________________

Trust announces St Andrews links ticket price rises

By Cheryl Peebles

Published in the Courier : 10.12.10

The St Andrews Links Trust announced "slight increases" after a freeze for the 2010 season.

A full resident ticket allowing play on all seven courses will go up from £170 to £180, while a restricted resident ticket for play on all courses except the Old and Castle will be £105 instead of £100.

Read more here: http://www.thecourier.co.uk/Sport/Golf/article/8542/trust-announces-st-andrews-links-ticket-price-rises.html

_______________________________________________________

Single round green fees for non-residents on the Old Course from 16 April 2012 through 14 October 2012 are... 150 GBP.

http://www.standrews.org.uk/Playing-in-St-Andrews/Book-Online/All-course-info.aspx

Thailand isn't the only country that has dual pricing.

PS: The first time I played the Old Course it cost me 2.50 GBP. The year was 1976.

Edited October 31, 2011 by chuckd