NZ Man Goes On Trial Over Thai Sex Tour

[Scott]

A particularly offensive comment and replies to it have been deleted or edited.

Please stick to the topic.

[inquisitive]

As far as 'entrapment," who cares?" The sex tour thing was obviously an investigation to see if they guy was in Thailand to have sex with underage boys. It seems pretty clear that he was. That is the real crime here. And if it takes a sting about a sex tour, well, I can live with that.

The guy is a pervert, sex tour entrapment part of it or not.

Golly, this one really pushed your buttons, didn't it?. I think you have projected something on the news article that was not there. As I understand it, the person that was arrested was not the one that said he wanted to engage in pedophilia, but rather the guy who got paid for a tour and who subsequently gave advice that could potentially be used by the purchaser to facilitate his engaging in such activities. None of the illegal activities themselves ever took place, nor did the person arrested arrange for them to take place. So far as we can tell from the information given here, the only thing that seems to tie the arrested to a crime is the perfectly legal use of the word "gay" in metadata of his website and the use of italics for the word "your" in a letter to the customer.

Do we know that this was not a stock, boilerplate phrase the accused used in all his letters to potential clients? Are we so sure that when the letter was written the author was not thinking of some other activities that the customer mentioned? Could he have been thinking of legal activities such as cruising gay bars? Would that have been a crime?

And even if this was naughty, did the undercover agent first offer money to the arrested before the accused gave the advice (which would be entrapment) or did the advice come before the customer indicated that he'd pay for it?

And finally, is it a crime to tell someone how a crime is committed by others? For example, it the naughty phrases that the accused supposedly supplied were listed here, would that make the newspaper guilty of a crime? Would we be in trouble for reading it? Could those phrases be used by you and me in heterosexual encounters with our spouses or are they magic words and phrases that are illegal in any context? In other words, where is the line drawn? Judging from the limited information given in the OP, I'd have to say that there certainly was some smoke involved - on both the accused and the government's side - but the flames are totaly lacking.

In our eagerness to show the world that we are not ourselves pedophiles, let's not forget to uphold some of the other important ideas, such as at least proof of a crime before we commit some poor bastard to punishment.

And I'm not even dealing withth eissue of whether a coutyr should have the power to punish someone for something they did outside their juristiction. That's another BIG issue for another day.

[charmonman]

*deleted quote edited out*

Should just ban any topic have to deal with Pedo / Gay / Straight, etc topics from the press. Let's be politically correct, good christian men and women. Just deny underaged sex goes on in Thailand.

No one denies it still occurs, but it is very fair to say that Thailand has taken at least some effective actions against child sex tourism. Years ago, in the late eighties early nineties, I was often approached by touts in tourist areas offering "young boys" or "young girls", which was annoying to say the least. Now, that seems to never occur, thankfully. International organization that monitor such things have commented on the improvements made in Thailand in this regard. Many recent media reports of child sex tourism in Thailand are hyperbole or complete fabrications. One a few years ago even called Washington Square a well know center for underage prostitution in Bangkok! You'd have been lucky to find anyone under the age of 30 working there!

The point I am making is that one should not deny the continued existence of a problem, but it should be kept in proportion.

[jsflynn603]

Sick bastards i think abit of good old fashioned Thai justice would do the job here.

In Australia when you go back if they search you on arrival they also look at your camera and mobile phone

laptop as well looking for this sick perverted stuff.

they are right onto it and good job too!!!

Take all these sick bastards out of society i say.

I can't say that I disagree with such actions but I find it interesting that Australia's aboriginal male population culturally were once all pedophiles. (Research it if you don't believe) It was the cultural norm for the village elders to "introduce" sex to the young girls just turning pubescent. It's not something that most Australians either know much of, or if they do, that they'd say much about... Of course Australians like Americans have all but supplanted the original inhabitants, by various means, so perhaps this observation is immaterial.

It does worry me when the attitude turns to: let's put "them" into prison where they can all be raped--which essentially is the way America's prison system is turning to, except that it does not always end up being the pedophiles that suffer this end, often it is simply the young, the attractive, or those whose demeanor or looks are effeminate. But no matter, let them all be raped, and let them all die from HIV, eh.... Just hope that you are not young and attractive and in America and find yourself in prison for something fairly menial like second possession of marijuana... In the end, prison systems (at least in America) have turned into simple highly efficient economic money making machines for the corporations and believe me they are very, very happy to hear your views....

[sirchai]

As far as 'entrapment," who cares?" The sex tour thing was obviously an investigation to see if they guy was in Thailand to have sex with underage boys. It seems pretty clear that he was. That is the real crime here. And if it takes a sting about a sex tour, well, I can live with that.

The guy is a pervert, sex tour entrapment part of it or not.

So you are judging him guilty of something he isn't being accused of????

Yep. You see, I am not a jury nor judge. I can take a look at circumstances and make my own decisions. Based on what I read, I would bet dollars to doughnuts that he had sex with underage boys in Thailand.

It would be nice if more would get caught in LOS............

[sydneyjed]

The US aggressively prosecutes its citizens who obtain underage sex overseas. It is good to see New Zealand taking a stance, too.

I would be curious to know how many nations do pursue this when the crime was not committed on that nation's soil.

I have watched a number of shows on tv about the pursuit of underage sex, and most mention that Thailand has largely cleaned up its act in this area, pushing the crime to Cambodia and other areas. However, as the arrests here prove, the problem is not totally eradicated.

Hillary Clinton has been actively lobbying governments and politicans on her travels of late...Apparently the raids by police in the Phillipines over the last few months in the well known sex tourist areas there were instigated and acted upon due to her threats to foreign aid being reduced ...Australia already has a watchdog organisation based in SEA actively persuing individuals and internet rings..while things aren't perfect they are at least better than they were..The majority of these under age sex organisations are actually run by local thai nationals catering to their own!

[luckizuchinni]

As far as 'entrapment," who cares?" The sex tour thing was obviously an investigation to see if they guy was in Thailand to have sex with underage boys. It seems pretty clear that he was. That is the real crime here. And if it takes a sting about a sex tour, well, I can live with that.

The guy is a pervert, sex tour entrapment part of it or not.

Golly, this one really pushed your buttons, didn't it?. I think you have projected something on the news article that was not there. As I understand it, the person that was arrested was not the one that said he wanted to engage in pedophilia, but rather the guy who got paid for a tour and who subsequently gave advice that could potentially be used by the purchaser to facilitate his engaging in such activities. None of the illegal activities themselves ever took place, nor did the person arrested arrange for them to take place. So far as we can tell from the information given here, the only thing that seems to tie the arrested to a crime is the perfectly legal use of the word "gay" in metadata of his website and the use of italics for the word "your" in a letter to the customer.

Do we know that this was not a stock, boilerplate phrase the accused used in all his letters to potential clients? Are we so sure that when the letter was written the author was not thinking of some other activities that the customer mentioned? Could he have been thinking of legal activities such as cruising gay bars? Would that have been a crime?

And even if this was naughty, did the undercover agent first offer money to the arrested before the accused gave the advice (which would be entrapment) or did the advice come before the customer indicated that he'd pay for it?

And finally, is it a crime to tell someone how a crime is committed by others? For example, it the naughty phrases that the accused supposedly supplied were listed here, would that make the newspaper guilty of a crime? Would we be in trouble for reading it? Could those phrases be used by you and me in heterosexual encounters with our spouses or are they magic words and phrases that are illegal in any context? In other words, where is the line drawn? Judging from the limited information given in the OP, I'd have to say that there certainly was some smoke involved - on both the accused and the government's side - but the flames are totaly lacking.

In our eagerness to show the world that we are not ourselves pedophiles, let's not forget to uphold some of the other important ideas, such as at least proof of a crime before we commit some poor bastard to punishment.

And I'm not even dealing withth eissue of whether a coutyr should have the power to punish someone for something they did outside their juristiction. That's another BIG issue for another day.

Many crimes "push my buttons," and particularly crimes against those tho cannot defend themselves.

Once again, I am not in a jury for this guy's trial. I am a non-involved bystander. And just as I thought OJ Simpson was guilty, I can think what I want based on the information given. I can see a video of young kids posing with guns and bags of cash, bragging, and yes, I would assume that they committed the robbery and just didn't happen to "find" the guns and cash and were making up a story for the video (an actual true story and claim by the kids.). If I was in the jury for the kids, I would have to consider that, but as a bystander, I can make up my own decision as to what I think and who is guilty.

This pervert, and yes, I will call him that, had photos "suggesting" that he might have been involved with underage sex. When pressed by the police in their little sting, he offered advice as how to approach boys, and I believe underage boys, for sex. He offered to help the policeman get what he thought the policeman wanted. So as a reasonable man, yes, I think he had sex with underage boys in Thailand. Using Occam's Razor, I find that far more believable than he somehow got that knowledge from reading from the internet or something and just happened to offer that advice.

I am not knowledgeable enough to know if New Zealand has jury trials with the jury just being normal citizens, but if I was on this guy's jury, I would have to consider that he got the knowledge from the internet and never actually had sex with underage boys himself. But since I am not charged with determining his fate, I can make the most reasonable assumption and call the guy a perverted criminal. And any of you decrying his situation, while you may or may not have a legal argument, if you really doubt this guy's guilt in the base fact of underage sex, then I think you may have blinders on your eyes.

Could he be innocent? Sure. Would I bet on that? No.

[sirchai]

Let's us hope he meets some real men in prison who knows how to deal with perverts!!!!

I do not know if the guy's actually guilty, or what the guy had done. But should he be guilty, let's hope that some much older ugly men inside prison will play some games with him......

Edited October 31, 2011 by sirchai

[inquisitive]

Could he be innocent? Sure. Would I bet on that? No.

Valid points, all. In the past, whenever I found someone who didn't agree with me I assumed it was because they simply didn't have the knowledge or experience to recognize that I was right. Then someone finally taught me that even if the other guy knows what I know, they won't necessarily decide what I would decide. I think this case is a perfect example. Your viewpoint certainly has merit and I'd be hard-pressed to say you were wrong. At the same time, I'm looking at the same limited information and it tells me a completely different story than it tells you. We both share the same repugnance of pedophilia, but we disagree whether the limited facts presented (if they are even facts at all!) make a good enough case against the arrested fellow. Maybe more information will come out as this develops and we'll end up in agreement. Until then, thanks for opening my eyes to a different but reasonable point of view. Let's both hope that justice will be served.

Edited October 31, 2011 by inquisitive

[luckizuchinni]

Could he be innocent? Sure. Would I bet on that? No.

Valid points, all. In the past, whenever I found someone who didn't agree with me I assumed it was because they simply didn't have the knowledge or experience to recognize that I was right. Then someone finally taught me that even if the other guy knows what I know, they won't necessarily decide what I would decide. I think this case is a perfect example. Your viewpoint certainly has merit and I'd be hard-pressed to say you were wrong. At the same time, I'm looking at the same limited information and it tells me a completely different story than it tells you. We both share the same repugnance of pedophilia, but we disagree whether the limited facts presented (if they are even facts at all!) make a good enough case against the arrested fellow. Maybe more information will come out as this develops and we'll end up in agreement. Until then, thanks for opening my eyes to a different but reasonable point of view. Let's both hope that justice will be served.

A very reasonable post.

And you could have interpreted the facts in a more accurate way that I did. If I was a betting man, though, while I admit I could lose my money, I would still bet that the man is a practicing pedo.

We should know more as more facts come out.

[jimbeam1]

That's Entrapment and I hope the guy gets off! The cops probably offered the dude a bunch of money and he couldn't resist it even at the guys website doesn't promote anything child sex *edited out*

I feel sorry for him and his family, the police must have nothing better to do.

If this is the website in question I can see no evidence at all of 'promoting a child sex tour on his website' which he has been accused of.

I would agree, I despise anyone who takes part in child sex. But remember the term boy/girl does not necessarily mean the same as in the west, eg lady boy/bar girl they can easily be in their 20s or 30s + many Thais look at least 10yrs younger that they actually are?

jb1

As an after thought don't they now have bar boys ?

Edited October 31, 2011 by jimbeam1

[johna]

-quote-:

Ms Walker said an undercover officer was assigned to approach the accused after an airport search in December 2009 found a thumb drive with photos of the accused with his arm around "teenage-looking males" and a card including Thai phrases of how to ask for specific sexual acts."

-unquote-

Jesus... I must have hundreds of pictures with my arm around "teenage - looking" girls..... And if they also find some naughty phrases scribbled by just those "teenage - looking" girls, that is enough to have a special agent on my heels who tries at all costs, using all means to prove that I am a criminal pedophile??

I'm on my knees, thank God, I'm not a NZ citizen!!!

pandering legal definition of pandering. pandering synonyms by the ...

To pimp; to cater to the gratification of the lust of another. To entice or procure a person, by promises, threats, Fraud, or deception to enter any place in which prostitution ...

[marquess]

-quote-:

Ms Walker said an undercover officer was assigned to approach the accused after an airport search in December 2009 found a thumb drive with photos of the accused with his arm around "teenage-looking males" and a card including Thai phrases of how to ask for specific sexual acts."

-unquote-

Jesus... I must have hundreds of pictures with my arm around "teenage - looking" girls..... And if they also find some naughty phrases scribbled by just those "teenage - looking" girls, that is enough to have a special agent on my heels who tries at all costs, using all means to prove that I am a criminal pedophile??

I'm on my knees, thank God, I'm not a NZ citizen!!!

:lol:

[allan michaud]

"Who cares?" well I reckon the accused for one. I can't see evidence of anything except entrapment. Innocent until proven guilty and all that?

[chuang]

Let's us hope he meets some real men in prison who knows how to deal with perverts!!!!

It's better still if he meets up with macho-homo men...'Midnight Express'

[saroq]

u look at the website and i see nothing about promoting sex on it. look at the Itinerary page!!

To quote the OP,"The website's metadata - keywords not on the viewable pages but which were behind the website - included "gay", "gay sex", and "boy", she said."

You are telling me the website is not gay?

Only thing in the meta data is this ONE word gay, so what, gay people are a huge source of revenue for travel agents

meta name="keywords" content="travel, Thailand, family tour, get-together, Gay, thailand, tour, 7 day, Pattaya, Bangkok, travel, beach, fun, island, business" />

<meta name="description" content="7 Day personally escorted tours of Bangkok and Pattaya for individuals and small groups" />

The site is not even close to a gay site!!

The undercover gent asked how to and the guy is a travel agent and in business to make money.

Clear case of entrapment!!!

It's not entrapment if the undercover cop used the website functions to book the tour. When asked to provide illegal services the "travel agent" should have refused to provide these or information about how to source them. Just as if I asked my travel agent to provide me with drugs on a tour they would / should refuse to provide these or suffer the consequences.

[TechnikaIII]

Don't worry folks. He will get deal with. They will first send him to Mt Eden then up to Paremoremo. Maxi Jail. When I go to Thailand I make sure they are legal age.

So you are a sex tourist too ... you sicken me.

[Wallaby]

Don't worry folks. He will get deal with. They will first send him to Mt Eden then up to Paremoremo. Maxi Jail. When I go to Thailand I make sure they are legal age.

So you are a sex tourist too ... you sicken me.

Not as much as your reply sickens everyone else.

[luckizuchinni]

Don't worry folks. He will get deal with. They will first send him to Mt Eden then up to Paremoremo. Maxi Jail. When I go to Thailand I make sure they are legal age.

So you are a sex tourist too ... you sicken me.

What someone chooses to do with another consenting adult is a far different situation than child molestation. I could give a flying fig on the first one. What two adults willingly do with or without money changing hands is no concern of mine. But child prostitution does sicken me. It is rape no different that if you hold a knife to an adult in order to rape him or her.

[mobiryder]

Playing devil's advocate here. If this article is sensationalized then 'teenage-looking' referring to Thai males, coming from another country, I see males probably from 27 on down that look teenage every day. And yes, it's my understanding that gays do throw the term 'boys' around liberally. 'Boys without hair', a gay man that's all shaved!

While I don't know the details in this particular case, if these broad terms are all they have to go on, then they don't really have a case (if you look at this objectively, realistically. Without jumping on the pious 'lynch him NOW!' train.)

[luckizuchinni]

Playing devil's advocate here. If this article is sensationalized then 'teenage-looking' referring to Thai males, coming from another country, I see males probably from 27 on down that look teenage every day. And yes, it's my understanding that gays do throw the term 'boys' around liberally. 'Boys without hair', a gay man that's all shaved!

While I don't know the details in this particular case, if these broad terms are all they have to go on, then they don't really have a case (if you look at this objectively, realistically. Without jumping on the pious 'lynch him NOW!' train.)

You can call it pious if you want, but if this guy has been here in Thailand for sex with minors, then he needs to be slammed with whatever legal method can be brought against him. And I have to think that the New Zealand police would not waste time and resources on this case if all there was was a few photos of him with some guys who look youngish.

I have not seen the photos, obviously, nor have I seen any of the evidence. But are the NZ police so incompetent and/or corrupt that they would pursue this guy based on insubstantial evidence? I rather doubt it.

So you can defend this guy all you want. You have no more data than I do. And if you were on this guy's jury, I would hope you give credence to any possibility that the guy is innocent. But it rather amazes me that so many jump to this guy's defense when the easiest and most logical conclusion, the most rational conclusion is that he is in fact an actual, practicing pedo.

Without naming names, I know that at least one of you who has rushed to this guy's defense has also been very critical of accused terrorists in another thread. Why the difference?

Legally, if New Zealand law is the same as in the US, for example, the guy is innocent until proven guilty. But that is a technicality. If he is guilty, he is guilty, verdict notwithstanding.

[TAWP]

What does the term 'underage' reefer to? Under 18?

If so, better stop traveling to Europe and never ask anyone about pick-up lines for picking up British girls in Ibiza...

[luckizuchinni]

What does the term 'underage' reefer to? Under 18?

If so, better stop traveling to Europe and never ask anyone about pick-up lines for picking up British girls in Ibiza...

For Americans, "underage" means younger than 18 in most cases (depending on the age of the older person.) Whatever "underage" means in New Zealand is something of which I imagine the police there are quite aware.

[jeanelie]

u look at the website and i see nothing about promoting sex on it. look at the Itinerary page!!

To quote the OP,"The website's metadata - keywords not on the viewable pages but which were behind the website - included "gay", "gay sex", and "boy", she said."

You are telling me the website is not gay?

Only thing in the meta data is this ONE word gay, so what, gay people are a huge source of revenue for travel agents

meta name="keywords" content="travel, Thailand, family tour, get-together, Gay, thailand, tour, 7 day, Pattaya, Bangkok, travel, beach, fun, island, business" />

<meta name="description" content="7 Day personally escorted tours of Bangkok and Pattaya for individuals and small groups" />

The site is not even close to a gay site!!

The undercover gent asked how to and the guy is a travel agent and in business to make money.

Clear case of entrapment!!!

Some people think it is more adviceable to control policemen then to check for paedophiles.

.

[Ijustwannateach]

Let's tone things down or the thread will be closed. I'm sure none of us is in favour of child abuse, and there's no need to have a 'but *I'M* harder on child abuse!!!' pissing contest.

First of all, just to make things clear regarding an earlier post by a homophobic moron, child abuse has nothing to do with homosexuality per se and any attempt to suggest the contrary, no matter how oblique, will receive severe warnings and penalties, anywhere on the forum. As I frequently remind our dear straight observers when these warnings become necessary, the people most likely to be child abusers (according to Dr. Spock, the late great author of THE Baby Book) are straight people; namely, parents. That's about as shocking as saying that most crime in China is committed by Chinese- it goes with the territory.

Secondly, I will take this opportunity to repeat another of my several-times-repeated pet hates: that many tourist-type gay men in Thailand have a tourist argot which refers to GROWN gay Thai men of way over consenting age (we're talking about guys sometimes in the 30s, here) as 'boys'. I unfortunately run across this occasionally in my own acquaintance (usually friends of friends who are tourists). Whether this is offensive on the basis of racism ('Boy, fetch me a drink!') and/or creepy ('Thai boys are cute!'), and/or condescending/deluded ('All Thai boys are that way...'), I personally find it objectionable and sad, and this is one case where possibly the crows came home to roost.

And thirdly (but borrowing from part 1) most of the abusers of Thai children are- wait for it, shock, awe- Thai people. As in part one, goes with the territory. Not much can be done about it because there are very few government resources and too many victims. Most of these victims would not be available for victimhood by either Thai or foreigner if their Thai parents and families were functional and sane. While it makes for good press and a spirit of gung ho vengeance to find and prosecute a predator, our gentle readers would be doing much better for children- if the point was caring for children- by raising your own well, or adopting and being a good and loving parent to some of them, or supporting the work of reputable charities (if any) taking care of them.

[bangkoktiger]

There is no such thing as taking the political correctness angle when a child is being sexually abused,

Being of a chosen religion makes no difference as we have witnessed over and over, These predators will do anything to protect each other and to cover there tracks,

They could be your Doctor, your childs school teacher, your neighbour, they dont wear signs saying " Im a Sex Tourist, I love children"

Benefit of the doubt you say! No way, if there's a suspicion somethings wrong there usually is,

All sexual offenders caught and prosecuted should be tattooed across there forehead!

There fore, never to be able to leave there Country to prey on the less fortunate and most vulnerable.

manydoes not make you a good person

*deleted quote edited out*

Should just ban any topic have to deal with Pedo / Gay / Straight, etc topics from the press. Let's be politically correct, good christian men and women. Just deny underaged sex goes on in Thailand.

[Orac]

What does the term 'underage' reefer to? Under 18?

If so, better stop traveling to Europe and never ask anyone about pick-up lines for picking up British girls in Ibiza...

For Americans, "underage" means younger than 18 in most cases (depending on the age of the older person.) Whatever "underage" means in New Zealand is something of which I imagine the police there are quite aware.

From Wiki

New Zealand has had a uniform and equal age of consent of 16

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Oceania#New_Zealand

and for the Cook Islands

There is no minimum age of consent for boys, although sodomy is illegal at any age (s155) and it is illegal for men aged 21 or more to commit indecent acts on boys under the age of 15 (s153). Similarly, it is illegal for women aged 21 or more to commit indecent acts on girls under the age of 15 (s152).

[luckizuchinni]

There is no such thing as taking the political correctness angle when a child is being sexually abused,

Being of a chosen religion makes no difference as we have witnessed over and over, These predators will do anything to protect each other and to cover there tracks,

They could be your Doctor, your childs school teacher, your neighbour, they dont wear signs saying " Im a Sex Tourist, I love children"

Benefit of the doubt you say! No way, if there's a suspicion somethings wrong there usually is,

All sexual offenders caught and prosecuted should be tattooed across there forehead!

There fore, never to be able to leave there Country to prey on the less fortunate and most vulnerable.

manydoes not make you a good person

*deleted quote edited out*

Should just ban any topic have to deal with Pedo / Gay / Straight, etc topics from the press. Let's be politically correct, good christian men and women. Just deny underaged sex goes on in Thailand.

Not to quibble with your post as I agree with most of it, but Abdujabbar01 was certainly being sarcastic and satirical. He was not being serious in really advocating those words.

[mobiryder]

I agree that I'd expect NZ police to be more thorough than say, the local MIB.

I don't agree that busting this guy as a pedo is the most logical or rational explanation, but definitely is the easiest. Of course it's easy to just agree with everything the news tells you. Is that logical though?

If the story mentioned they found illicit pictures of obviously or confirmed minors then sure, I'd say it's rational to start screamin for a lynching but really, 'boys without hair' 'seemingly teenage boys' 'gay boys'. Really?

I'd be the first one to condemn someone if the reported evidence was clear and compelling enough. But this article, at least, doesn't present any clear-cut damning evidence for me to come to any conclusion other than this guy needs a proper, fair trial.

Playing devil's advocate here. If this article is sensationalized then 'teenage-looking' referring to Thai males, coming from another country, I see males probably from 27 on down that look teenage every day. And yes, it's my understanding that gays do throw the term 'boys' around liberally. 'Boys without hair', a gay man that's all shaved!

While I don't know the details in this particular case, if these broad terms are all they have to go on, then they don't really have a case (if you look at this objectively, realistically. Without jumping on the pious 'lynch him NOW!' train.)

You can call it pious if you want, but if this guy has been here in Thailand for sex with minors, then he needs to be slammed with whatever legal method can be brought against him. And I have to think that the New Zealand police would not waste time and resources on this case if all there was was a few photos of him with some guys who look youngish.

I have not seen the photos, obviously, nor have I seen any of the evidence. But are the NZ police so incompetent and/or corrupt that they would pursue this guy based on insubstantial evidence? I rather doubt it.

So you can defend this guy all you want. You have no more data than I do. And if you were on this guy's jury, I would hope you give credence to any possibility that the guy is innocent. But it rather amazes me that so many jump to this guy's defense when the easiest and most logical conclusion, the most rational conclusion is that he is in fact an actual, practicing pedo.

Without naming names, I know that at least one of you who has rushed to this guy's defense has also been very critical of accused terrorists in another thread. Why the difference?

Legally, if New Zealand law is the same as in the US, for example, the guy is innocent until proven guilty. But that is a technicality. If he is guilty, he is guilty, verdict notwithstanding.

[luckizuchinni]

I agree that I'd expect NZ police to be more thorough than say, the local MIB.

I don't agree that busting this guy as a pedo is the most logical or rational explanation, but definitely is the easiest. Of course it's easy to just agree with everything the news tells you. Is that logical though?

If the story mentioned they found illicit pictures of obviously or confirmed minors then sure, I'd say it's rational to start screamin for a lynching but really, 'boys without hair' 'seemingly teenage boys' 'gay boys'. Really?

I'd be the first one to condemn someone if the reported evidence was clear and compelling enough. But this article, at least, doesn't present any clear-cut damning evidence for me to come to any conclusion other than this guy needs a proper, fair trial.

We are all convicting him or exonerating him based on a news report, which can hardly lay out the full evidence. But as I have written before, none of us are tasked with determining his fate.

Those of us who tend to agree that, based on what was reported, it is reasonable to conclude that he is a pedo are counterbalanced by those who are sure he is a victim of entrapment or that he is a victim of the supposed fact that Thai men look younger than their real age. As I have written before, if I was a betting man, I would go for the guilty side of the ledger, and I wonder how many of his supporters here would lay down money that he is innocent.

But I do agree with your last statement. This guy does need a proper, fair trial.

Whether this guy is specifically guilty or innocent, child predation is a real and serious problem. Thailand has made great strides in combating it, but more can be done. (CNN has an informative article on the child predation in Cambodia today.)