Anger Rises In Flooded Bangkok As Centre Stays Dry

[Misterwhisper]

On one side of the barrier the water is 4 foot deep.

On the other side of the barrier it is dry.

I can't help but think it would be fairer and have less economic impact for the water to be 1 foot deep everywhere.

With water 1 foot deep life can go on as usual for everyone,

But the rich like the poor to suffer the most in Thailand.

I fully agree. It would have been better to open sluice gates from the very beginning in order to allow the water to flow into the sea, even if major parts of Bangkok would have become inundated. The flooding could have been kept in check, reaching perhaps 30 cm in places instead of the 1 or 1.5 metres or more as it does now. Bangkok can deal with 30 cm of water even during a prolonged period. And if those fine khunyings with their stiff hairdos feel impeded during their weekly trip to Emporium, so be it. Not everybody in inner Bangkok is insanely rich and drives a BMW, of course, but it wouldn't have hurt if we all would have shared the burden. It's still dry as a bone at my place (Ramkhamhaeng), although I am used to flooding even after a heavy rainstorm. What an irony.

[h90]

Tawp..........My comment spoke for it's self--like we don't care about 20 million(government) sort of attitude...........sod them. we the government want to care for the areas we want dry. (minority 4 mill) MONEY is the overriding factor--much of it is tied up in this area. VIP zone as it should be called.

Of course money matters. They aren't protecting rich people but businesses and the city center's infrastructure which is where a lot of the money is concentrated. If you let BKK grind to a halt then you might as well shut the country down. A few neighborhoods being flooded is still a lot less expensive than allowing entire urban areas to go under water. Later they can always compensate those people. The question is if the government will do the right thing later or not.

Than they should tell it! Go to Thaveewattana and tell them: Hey you got the water so the important places keep dry. All the bankers imported Italian shoes would cost billions to replace if the get 10 cm water in the center, so we had out 1000 Baht per day you are under water for you poor idiots.

People would make dykes to keep the water.

But no 900 Billions, half will end anyway on the bank accounts of the Shinawatras, 20 % on their cronies accounts and 30 % for the people.

If someone has to suffer, tell it and pay

[Steely Dan]

Dam near Bangkok destroyed in anger

Torn-down dike spares one neighborhood, floods another

At this point, it's abundantly clear that parts of Bangkok's outskirts are being sacrificed to spare the capital. Bangkok's city center is still protected by a network of sandbag walls and dikes that stop floodwaters from gushing into the city center. On the other side, however, are families suffering in homes steeped in brown water and lanes turned to trash-choked canals.

In a few isolated cases, residents are joining forces to tear down dikes -- draining the water from their districts and flooding areas closer to the city. Several such incidents have been reported by the Bangkok Post. China's Xinhua agency has gone so far as to publish this headline: "Bangkok near chaos with flood mobs and drinking water shortage."

Continues:

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/the-rice-bowl/dam-near-bangkok-destroyed-anger

Global Post - October 31, 2011

.

I hope I'm not over romanticizing my home Country in days past, but during the blitz many areas of London were destroyed, children were sent from the capital often to stay with complete strangers living in rural areas. The history we were taught was of everyone pulling together, common in adversity. I'm not certain whether an external enemy caused this, but the situation in Thailand today seems so different with a dog eat dog attitude where beggar thy neighbor seems to be the order of the day. I sense there are very worrying times ahead.

[YellowFeverCAD]

Perhaps 'villagers' is an appropriate description in that in conjures up images of an irate crowd trying to storm the castle gates armed with pitchforks and torches. I suspect the blame game will be truly a spectacle after the floods have subsided.

It is ironic that the all the "poor" people last year ready to die to have the evil BKK elites out of power and their fellow "poor red shirts" in power are now seeing what reality looks like.

Clearly not as they expected things to go.

[wintermute]

Than they should tell it! Go to Thaveewattana and tell them: Hey you got the water so the important places keep dry. All the bankers imported Italian shoes would cost billions to replace if the get 10 cm water in the center, so we had out 1000 Baht per day you are under water for you poor idiots.

People would make dykes to keep the water.

But no 900 Billions, half will end anyway on the bank accounts of the Shinawatras, 20 % on their cronies accounts and 30 % for the people.

If someone has to suffer, tell it and pay

Well, what can you do? Shut the entire country down or flood some provincial areas and hope to drain the water in time? What would _you_ have done? The options are limited.

[Gary A]

I feel for those who are suffering. I have been there and done that but admittedly not to this extent. This has been happening for many years. My worst loss was a water soaked ruined car from the foot and more deep stagnant and stinking water that occurs nearly every year on the village streets. I would hope Bangkok will upgrade their drainage system and avoid flooding the areas out of Bangkok. Bangkok has created this problem and they must correct it. Why should the areas outside of Bangkok suffer when Bangkok refuses to do anything about the obvious problem?

[Jumper]

I'm probably as close as you'll get to an impartial observer in BKK these days. Gates open or closed I won'r get wet.

I don't think the plan to save "the economic heartland" holds true. We are all painfully aware of the economic impact already realized due to the flooding of major industrial parks to the north. The areas now becoming exposed to flood waters are the locations of many factories (maybe second and third tier) necessary to the functioning of the economy. A functioning industrial system requires an operating network of vendors and sub-vendors to perform various specialized tasks. These are not all concentrated within the flood protected areas of the CBD. Indeed, most of them are outside that area and now at risk. Without them the highly visible major operations can be forced to a halt.

I'd say let the water flow. Let's get through this as soon as possible.

[robblok]

I feel for those who are suffering. I have been there and done that but admittedly not to this extent. This has been happening for many years. My worst loss was a water soaked ruined car from the foot and more deep stagnant and stinking water that occurs nearly every year on the village streets. I would hope Bangkok will upgrade their drainage system and avoid flooding the areas out of Bangkok. Bangkok has created this problem and they must correct it. Why should the areas outside of Bangkok suffer when Bangkok refuses to do anything about the obvious problem?

Yes Bangkok did create the problem (not this flooding). They are in a floodplain and block the natural flow of water. What they do is divert it and flood other area's to save themselves. They should get a good drainage system that makes sure there is no need to flood the other area's. But that cost money and they don't want to spend it.

[erobando]

I think the people who think that central Bangkok is blocking the flow of water into the gulf need to do 3 things:

1) Check a satellite image of the extent of the flooding. It will not all flow into, for example, Silom.

2) Look at a map of central Thailand. The "protected area" does not border the gulf.

3) Look at a topographical map of central Thailand. The eastern part of Bangkok is 1-2 meters lower than the "protected area."

The needs to be improvements in the draining of floodwater but this problem is not only Bangkok-related.

Flooded areas have been under water for weeks because of drainage inadequacies in all of affected areas.

[dille]

I am at Salatamasop right now. Very quiet, I hear only ducks and frogs. We are abandoned for sure. Very deep water in village, probably more than 1 m. We are desperate.

[Klong Song]

Let the water flow, BKK bedamned

[orchidlady]

Does anyone know what part of Bangkok Yingluck lives in??? Just wondering if her location has anything to do with choice of water run off locations.

Edited October 31, 2011 by orchidlady

[elcent]

this is about the time when trauma sets in. It can be clearly read between the lines.

Chill out everybody, we all know it's not easy.

Some who suggest that the gates should have been opened I can tell you Bangkok would be literally dead right now.

Do think about those who hindered the opening of the major dam in September. It all would be not so serious.

More and more people, just talked with govt people, believe that a big land grabbing is on it's way.

Put the pieces together and you shall know.

Edited October 31, 2011 by elcent

[elcent]

Does anyone know what part of Bangkok Yingluck lives in??? Just wondering if her location has anything to do with choice of water run off locations.

the shinatra compound is flooded too.

[Gweiloman]

Personally, I don't want to see anybody flooded who doesn't have to be. Being flooded is not something that I wish to share with others.

The frustration, however, gets to be overwhelming when it appears that the water is being held in your area rather than being expedited on it's way.

For me, it will stay at frustration only. I would never knock down a barrier. I may not agree with the government, but they still have a much bigger picture of this mess than I do.

You have the point, but there are people who think either:

1) the government does not have a bigger picture and they are just idiots

2) they have a bigger picture but use it not to protect as much people and property as possible, but instead some super rich who can pay (or is influential or paid donations at the last election). Mr. Super Rich don't want to get wet, so the government with their bigger picture let stay the poor idiots for 1 month in 1.5 meter instead having 30 cm for everyone 2 weeks.

It might be true or not, but people think it is. As well it was the case with all of north or bangkok.

Than they make something desperate...I just learned how to put my excrements in plastic bags.....how it is when the plastic bags and the toilet paper is finished. Bad food, cheap ugly tasting water, no alcohol no cigarettes, maybe no electric and no TV

I would like your response to a possible 3rd alternative

3) the government sees the bigger picture and decides to do what it (not you) thinks is best for the country as a whole.

And don't try and tell me that you think you can do better than any government - if you can, you won't be merely a keyboard warrior instead of being in charge of a COUNTRY.

p/s: who needs toilet paper anyway?

[sbk]

BANGKOK, Oct 23 – Initial damages from the flood crisis on the Thai economy are likely to exceed 400 billion baht, excluding successive impacts and chain of effects to providing goods and service to customers, said Pornsil Patchritanakul, Deputy Secretary-General of the Board of Trade of Thailand.

If flooding hits Bangkok’s business areas, the damage could climb another 120 billion baht per month, as the capital’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is about one trillion baht each year.

http://www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/284528.html

Annual GDP for the entire nation:

GDP (2010 prelim.): $317 billion or 9.83 trillion Baht.

[whatawonderfulday]

Does anyone know what part of Bangkok Yingluck lives in??? Just wondering if her location has anything to do with choice of water run off locations.

She lives in Phanoyotin and her house is nice and dry, but like her big Brother her home is well sand bagged courtesy of the BMA. A little bit more action by the locals is required for her to get her feet wet ! Problem is Thais have short memories so will have forgotten this by the time of the next election.

[whatawonderfulday]

Does anyone know what part of Bangkok Yingluck lives in??? Just wondering if her location has anything to do with choice of water run off locations.

the shinatra compund is flooded too.

Not her house according to her son !

[h90]

Does anyone know what part of Bangkok Yingluck lives in??? Just wondering if her location has anything to do with choice of water run off locations.

the shinatra compound is flooded too.

Source? I read that the water is there but I didn't read about inside.

As well they have many buildings

[h90]

Does anyone know what part of Bangkok Yingluck lives in??? Just wondering if her location has anything to do with choice of water run off locations.

She lives in Phanoyotin and her house is nice and dry, but like her big Brother her home is well sand bagged courtesy of the BMA. A little bit more action by the locals is required for her to get her feet wet ! Problem is Thais have short memories so will have forgotten this by the time of the next election.

next election 500 Baht and minimum salary promise of 400 Baht per day+ the promise that every school children get a ipad and everything will be OK. It is 4 years from now. No one will remember.

[TAWP]

Tawp..........My comment spoke for it's self--like we don't care about 20 million(government) sort of attitude...........sod them. we the government want to care for the areas we want dry. (minority 4 mill) MONEY is the overriding factor--much of it is tied up in this area. VIP zone as it should be called.

But your comment doesn't make sense.

There isn't 20 million affected now or later.

And if BKK is flooded than all that suffer put together would make BKK be the big majority of the people that suffer, in raw numbers.

Do you understand this?

[h90]

Personally, I don't want to see anybody flooded who doesn't have to be. Being flooded is not something that I wish to share with others.

The frustration, however, gets to be overwhelming when it appears that the water is being held in your area rather than being expedited on it's way.

For me, it will stay at frustration only. I would never knock down a barrier. I may not agree with the government, but they still have a much bigger picture of this mess than I do.

You have the point, but there are people who think either:

1) the government does not have a bigger picture and they are just idiots

2) they have a bigger picture but use it not to protect as much people and property as possible, but instead some super rich who can pay (or is influential or paid donations at the last election). Mr. Super Rich don't want to get wet, so the government with their bigger picture let stay the poor idiots for 1 month in 1.5 meter instead having 30 cm for everyone 2 weeks.

It might be true or not, but people think it is. As well it was the case with all of north or bangkok.

Than they make something desperate...I just learned how to put my excrements in plastic bags.....how it is when the plastic bags and the toilet paper is finished. Bad food, cheap ugly tasting water, no alcohol no cigarettes, maybe no electric and no TV

I would like your response to a possible 3rd alternative

3) the government sees the bigger picture and decides to do what it (not you) thinks is best for the country as a whole.

And don't try and tell me that you think you can do better than any government - if you can, you won't be merely a keyboard warrior instead of being in charge of a COUNTRY.

p/s: who needs toilet paper anyway?

Where is the profit in 3)?

[Crushdepth]

Let the water flow, BKK bedamned

Suppose you'd like to see the evacuees go under a second time?

[whatawonderfulday]

Does anyone know what part of Bangkok Yingluck lives in??? Just wondering if her location has anything to do with choice of water run off locations.

the shinatra compound is flooded too.

Source? I read that the water is there but I didn't read about inside.

As well they have many buildings

Always a doubter somewhere. Read my other reply I said it was from her son who is at the same school as mine - any doubts now ?

[Krungbin]

this is about the time when trauma sets in. It can be clearly read between the lines.

Chill out everybody, we all know it's not easy.

Some who suggest that the gates should have been opened I can tell you Bangkok would be literally dead right now.

Do think about those who hindered the opening of the major dam in September. It all would be not so serious.

More and more people, just talked with govt people, believe that a big land grabbing is on it's way.

Put the pieces together and you shall know.

i totally concur...and need to shout it because nobody seems to willing to listen:

DO THINK ABOUT THOSE WHO HINDERED THE OPENING OF THE MAJOR DAMS BACK IN SEPTEMBER!

And when you find the answer, then ask:

WHY?

[Gonsalviz]

On one side of the barrier the water is 4 foot deep.

On the other side of the barrier it is dry.

I can't help but think it would be fairer and have less economic impact for the water to be 1 foot deep everywhere.

With water 1 foot deep life can go on as usual for everyone,

But the rich like the poor to suffer the most in Thailand.

It surely would be more fair.

But realistically, do you think they can take the chance of a "controlled" flooding in the zones of high economical importance?

Central Bangkok is not as flat as it might seem. As a foot of water in one part might mean a whole lot more in other parts.

I'm happy I'm not the one who has to take this kind of decision. I feel it's something like: should we flood heavily 1 million people or lightly 10 million? It's one of these "Would you rather lose an arm or a leg?" questions. There isn't a right and a wrong answer.

Yes how do you balance.

You need to fix your house with a flood 1 foot or 4 feet ,

but if your job is dead with 1 foot

and still there with 4,

you can still pay for fixes.

The 300-400 BILLION baht needed for the repairs in government and loans will need to come from somewhere.

Which engine of commerce will you 'save or lose' to 'be fair'?

I agree I would be angry as a wet hornet if my place were flooded,

but more angry at who caused the flooding to begin with,

than those who have to manage it by the seat of their pants on the fly.

Now if all three things are mis-managed by the same crew in serial FROC-ups,

then I would be in a mood to throw the bums out. No confidence votes are

still how it's done using Democratic means, and legitimate street rage at

government ineptitude is still one of the ways those votes are lost by governments.

2.4 million people displaced by not properly managing this water for 2+ months.

No wonder the spin-miesters are in full backpedal mode.

I agree I would be angry as a wet hornet if my place were flooded, but more angry at who caused the flooding to begin with...

Good remark, and a good question: WHO caused the flooding to begin with?:

Mother Nature and the denuders of the forests.

[elcent]

Does anyone know what part of Bangkok Yingluck lives in??? Just wondering if her location has anything to do with choice of water run off locations.

the shinatra compound is flooded too.

Source? I read that the water is there but I didn't read about inside.

As well they have many buildings

I remember the one on Charoensanitwong

Edited October 31, 2011 by elcent

[skippybangkok]

Same here flooded for a week now but liveable. But BKK is protected at all cost. They should open the gates and let the water in 1 ft for everyone is better as a few meter for some. The water needs to get moving not stay stagnant. All those dams just keep the water on one place.

I can understand people wanting to break them down. Maybe then effort would be made to drain parts outside of BKK. Now there is no immediate problem so no effort is being put in it.

I mean if some breached dams would mean that this whole mess would end a few weeks earlier then im all for it. Too bad for BKK. If it does not make a damm difference then let BKK stay dry. But not save it at the cost of others.

Rob, I'm now stayinig with friends in On Nut, around Soi 50, where there was a minor leak in the floodwall yesterday, the second one in three days. You should have seen how the authorities jumped on things and got them repaired. A stream of trucks carrying hundreds of sandbags for hours on end. For me and my house, they did nothing. Some little twerp rode around in a motorboat to inspect things on Saturday and that was it. I was in a boat for 2 hours yesterday and there was water for kilometer after kilometer after kilometer on Phutthamonthon Sai 3 and all the way down Utthayan. The BMA could care less. Over here in On Nut, people are living and laughing it up like nothing has happened.

Just like in a war, you sometimes need to sacrifice some land to make a good defence. With that logic, why didn't the govt protect everything - quite simple, its just not possible.

[Heng]

A lot of the anger is of the 'misery loves company' variety. Folks gripe about people stocking up on goods, of people owning homes (and in many cases 2nd, 3rd, etc. backup homes in other areas) that are dry and built on higher foundations.... but they don't seem to want to blame themselves for not saving more paychecks or planning ahead.... just assuming life here would be one long never ending party.

btw: We've had plenty of property loss during this thing. We're just not living IN water or in an area not supplied with groceries because we chose to live somewhere with relatively high elevation.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Heng

[manarak]

On one side of the barrier the water is 4 foot deep.

On the other side of the barrier it is dry.

I can't help but think it would be fairer and have less economic impact for the water to be 1 foot deep everywhere.

With water 1 foot deep life can go on as usual for everyone,

But the rich like the poor to suffer the most in Thailand.

the only problem is that the surface of downtown Bangkok isn't so big, and water would be 3 feet deep everywhere, not 1.