All Bangkok Districts To Be Flooded If Klong Sam Wa's Sluice Gate Further Opened: Deputy Governor

[noitom]

Normally if people would forcibly try to do major damage to a major city like Bangkok they'd be branded terrorists....

The Reds who damaged Bkk in Spring '09 and Spring '10 were terrorists in every sense of the word (remember commandeering LP gas truck? .....and raiding hospital?). Yet Thais like them, and voted their leaders in to political power positions months later. The message: It's ok to be a Thai terrorist, particularly if it relates to damaging Bkk.

What about those in yellow who commandeered the international airport and closed it in December of 2008 for almost two weeks? What do you call that? Do you think that was a terrorist act? Do you think that was a breakdown in Thailand's security and ability to safeguard its land? This flood business has been going on for years and years. If Thailand wasn't able to keep its people from closing a major international hub airport and secure it in the middle of December for two weeks, do you really think that they will ever resolve the flood pathways and exposure?

The real issue at this stage is safeguarding the people from health and disease issues. The flooding is a foregone matter - bickering, fighting, and debating which sluice gate should be open and how far has little to do with the fact that a very large segment of the population is dislocated and exposed to health issues, serious diseases, electrocution, and death as the result of no accelerated initiatives by the corporate private sector, government, and the media. Their collective failure in not recognizing the priority of the welfare of its population at large but instead not protecting them from future health and disease risk is unconscionable. They need to come together on this issue. Very few people need to determine how best to manage the outflow of water to the sea. They've been looking at it, investing in it, and analyzing it for decades. When Thailand constructed these canals originally it was to develop its rice industry and then get the water out. They built over many of their own natural canals in Bangkok to develop hotels and "other" businesses. The only "business" in Bangkok originally was the rice cartel meeting for coffee once a week on Silom to determine the pricing. The next "business" that came along was the R & R "entertainment" industry and all the peripheral businesses that benefited from that cashflow such as hotels, apartments, banking, drugs, and the military complex. The national security of the military presence allowed them to curry favor with the Japanese, and Western countries and solicit manufacturing investment which fueled their growth. Bangkok was a by product phenomena of the Thai farming, fishing, manufacturing, and export businesses and of course their "entertainment trade."

Assuming that the "entertainment" business and the tourist business are much smaller segments of the Thai GDP pie, the main legitimate engine of their economic growth in the last twenty five years has been the factories, the farms, the warehouses, and logistics networks and the people working in them who are now flooded out and at risk for up to the past two months. Bangkok needs to wake up and smell the coffee and take care of their disenfranchised and at risk ordinary people. Sure, they need to patronize the Japanese and make promises to rehabilitate their flooded factories and protect all the elite Thai business class golf country clubs, estates, and the sacrosanct Bangkok in the natural path of the water to the sea. But not at the risk of their own ordinary people who worked in those farms and factories to make those hard drives and sneakers and relied on "the system" to take care of them.

[lujanit]

While Yingluck & Company can be, and should be, blamed for the mismanagement of this situation, they can't be blamed for the flood itself. And no one can convince me that any other government could/would do a better job.

This pathetic excuse for a government maybe not be able to be blamed for the rain but they are certainly 100% guilty for the volume, timing and extent of the flooding. Who was the PTP member who expressly ordered the RIA not to release water from the dangerously overfull dams prior to the monsoon season even though RIA strongly advised releasing water? When dams became so full that there was the chance of breaching or, even worse, collapse massive amounts of water had to be released in a very short time. One dam (I don't recall which) was reported to be at 136% of storage capacity prior to water being released. That should be a criminal offence.

The vast amount of suffering and death could have been avoided had the proper and timely release of water been enacted. Frustrations are running high now however I will predict that things will get a lot worse before too long. People are sick of being unnecessarily flooded out and as more of BKK is flooded it will become nigh on impossible for the folks who stayed to protect their properties to get necessary provisions. I speak from a place of knowledge as we are flooded out and we don't even know where to go and get simple goods like rice, noodles, eggs etc.

It's too late for us however all we want is to have this stinking water drained to the sea as quickly as possible. The conflicting reports about how long we can expect to remain flooded (Yingluck said a few days ago 45 to 60 days, then she said we are over the worse of it. The BKK Governor changes his tune as often as he takes in another breath. Don't get me stared on the idiots in FROC) certainly frustrate me and while I am not someone who would take direct action I can fully understand while other folks might and will.

This situation will get a whole lot uglier in the not too distant future.

[ALFREDO]

I am reminded of the movie "The Man Who Would Be King" (based on a Kipling book). Two fortune hunters venture into the mythical kingdom of Kafiristan, and find bunch of locals who hate the people who live up the river. "Why do you hate these people so much?" to which they reply "Every time we go to the river to bathe the tribe upstream pees in the river", the protagonists Daniel and Peachy travel further up the river and find the people living there equally loathe the another tribe further up the river, again they ask "Why do you hate these people so much?" to which they reply "Every time we go to the river to bathe the tribe upstream pees in the river"……….. so it goes.

please get me on your medication..!

-kevbap-

Whats your problem?

That story shows in a funny way, how the blaming of others go on and on. Not much different now here around BKK.

Nobody is responsible and nobody really knows how to solve the problem fast without more damage. But everybody knows somebody he can blame for that crazy disaster!

[bigbamboo]

While I may not agree with the actions of these people in forcing open flood gates and tearing down barriers to try and get some relief from the flooding in their area, I can fully understand their anger and frustration.

These people are tired of the property, their houses and their lives being destroyed just save precious Bangkok year after year. How would you feel if your moo ban was flooded year in and year out just to so the one next to you could be saved? If you can imagine that, then you can understand these people and their actions.

While Yingluck & Company can be, and should be, blamed for the mismanagement of this situation, they can't be blamed for the flood itself. And no one can convince me that any other government could/would do a better job.

For to many years the rich and powerful, which means about .05% of the population, have been allowed to destroy what is, supposedly, protected forest areas to build their mansions and resorts, thereby destroying the ecological balance that Mother Nature provided. For too many years these same people have built, or have allowed to be built, factories, housing and condo projects, and other structures in low lying areas that block the natural flow of water, with zero forethought of what might happen. For too many years the experts, both Thai and foreign, have done studies, made recommendations, and issued serious warnings about what could/would happen, but since there was no "graft" or "corruption" money in it for anyone, they were ignored.

If anyone is to blame for this situation it is EVERY member of EVERY government for the past 50+ years since the last flood for not doing what was necessary to prevent it from happening again.

The one good thing from this is now maybe, just maybe, they will listen to the experts and finally do what needs to be done for ALL of Thailand, and not just Bangkok. We can only hope.

That's just about the size of it.

[TypoMan]

Can anyone point this floodgate out on a map ? I'm looking for it.

Maybe ...

Thanks,

now i understand more of the problem. Wuite logical that they want that opened more. It drains through BKK straight in the sea. Its madness blocking North to South connections and expecting the locals to endure more hardship.

Interesting, from that map it looks as the canal goes dead south all the way to Suvarnabhumi... No wonder they don't want to open it lol

[oevna]

With Bangkok making up around 40% of the GDP of Thailand, it's understandable they're trying to protect it. The damage is already done in the surrounding areas, does it really have to get even worse? It's terrible for the locals who are now up to their waste in water, but forcing more of Bangkok to flood will not lessen their damage, and will cripple the Thai economy even further.

Besides that, it's pretty insane that the government is allowing local people to affect their plans so much. Normally if people would forcibly try to do major damage to a major city like Bangkok they'd be branded terrorists.... Someone needs to take charge and look at the bigger picture, then enforce the plan for the greater good of the country. If the local police can't handle it, have the army protect the sluice gates and dams....

The problem is, nobody has any confidence that the government can provide this sort of leadership. Who can blame them, given the way the government has communicated with the people throughout this disaster.

[saintofsilence]

While Yingluck & Company can be, and should be, blamed for the mismanagement of this situation, they can't be blamed for the flood itself. And no one can convince me that any other government could/would do a better job.

This pathetic excuse for a government maybe not be able to be blamed for the rain but they are certainly 100% guilty for the volume, timing and extent of the flooding. Who was the PTP member who expressly ordered the RIA not to release water from the dangerously overfull dams prior to the monsoon season even though RIA strongly advised releasing water? When dams became so full that there was the chance of breaching or, even worse, collapse massive amounts of water had to be released in a very short time. One dam (I don't recall which) was reported to be at 136% of storage capacity prior to water being released. That should be a criminal offence.

The vast amount of suffering and death could have been avoided had the proper and timely release of water been enacted. Frustrations are running high now however I will predict that things will get a lot worse before too long. People are sick of being unnecessarily flooded out and as more of BKK is flooded it will become nigh on impossible for the folks who stayed to protect their properties to get necessary provisions. I speak from a place of knowledge as we are flooded out and we don't even know where to go and get simple goods like rice, noodles, eggs etc.

It's too late for us however all we want is to have this stinking water drained to the sea as quickly as possible. The conflicting reports about how long we can expect to remain flooded (Yingluck said a few days ago 45 to 60 days, then she said we are over the worse of it. The BKK Governor changes his tune as often as he takes in another breath. Don't get me stared on the idiots in FROC) certainly frustrate me and while I am not someone who would take direct action I can fully understand while other folks might and will.

This situation will get a whole lot uglier in the not too distant future.

That person who made the decision not to let the water go earlier has a lot to answer for and I agree with you this whole situation will get much worst before better.

[edwinchester]

inner Bangkok dry, you get relief , food, shelter and donation......inner Bangkok wet you get nothing because now people have to worry for themself, simple as that.

Donations?!!! You're dreaming. Thai people have no concept of charity! They could watch you die in the street.... Just look how wealth is distributed in a RICH country like Thailand. How many humanitarian THAI organizations do you know of?

I have no idea where you live but I live in a village in Kanchanaburi and the amount of donated food, clothing and money is huge and to my knowledge happening in many other communities in Thailand.

[kevbap]

I am reminded of the movie "The Man Who Would Be King" (based on a Kipling book). Two fortune hunters venture into the mythical kingdom of Kafiristan, and find bunch of locals who hate the people who live up the river. "Why do you hate these people so much?" to which they reply "Every time we go to the river to bathe the tribe upstream pees in the river", the protagonists Daniel and Peachy travel further up the river and find the people living there equally loathe the another tribe further up the river, again they ask "Why do you hate these people so much?" to which they reply "Every time we go to the river to bathe the tribe upstream pees in the river"……….. so it goes.

please get me on your medication..!

-kevbap-

Whats your problem?

That story shows in a funny way, how the blaming of others go on and on. Not much different now here around BKK.

Nobody is responsible and nobody really knows how to solve the problem fast without more damage. But everybody knows somebody he can blame for that crazy disaster!

lighten up, or take some medication !!!!

[webfact]

RT @Saksith: There're more police officers and journalists than residents at Khlon Sam Wa gate! #thaifloodeng

[volk666]

Interesting, from that map it looks as the canal goes dead south all the way to Suvarnabhumi... No wonder they don't want to open it lol

They are more afraid it will flow down San Saeb and into Bangkapi.

Map on the first page is wrong, the actual location is here

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=202464815194156148718.0004b0a54bb471bca688e

[LTGTR]

Didn't ANYBODY catch "overflow into roadside dishes"? LOL

Even I know dishes can't hold much water-they should use bowls or pots instead.

Edited November 1, 2011 by LTGTR

[IAMSOBAD]

Clowns to the left of me...

Jokers to the right...

Here I am stuck in the middle with water!

[TAWP]

Three little pigs lived in three little houses. The first one was built out of straw and was destroyed when the flooding came. The second house was built by wood and stood up when the water came, but the little piggy had to move up to the second floor. The third house was built out of cement and had a large wall around the land and the water didn't enter it. The second piggy become very angry on the third one not 'sharing the pain' and went to break down the wall around it, housing both the third piggy and the first piggy that ran there as a flooding-refugee.

How will the story end?

And where will the piggies live later?

[h90]

I am just curious how much money has been donated to help the common people by Thaksin Shinawatra, Potjamin Domapong and Yingluck Shinawatra. My guess is that it is dam_n little and that donation of a few water pumps by Thaksin was a token effort for publicity.

The elites will only become even stronger after this this is over because they will still have all their wealth and their "red" supporters will have even less than they had before. It is naive to think the government is going to reimburse all of the flood losses. The rich will get help to rebuild their empires and the poor people are Sht Out of Luck.

It is very interesting how Thaksin seems to have distanced himself from Yingluck now that the flood disaster has been so poorly managed. Yingluck may well drown before this is over but the real leader of the country, Thaksin will just swim away.

Thaksin was in Korea to buy pumps for the government, no one ever told that he'll pay them. But it was in a way written that it might be understood that he buys (and pays) pumps for Thailand.

In my opinion the government bought pumps and he took care of the kickback.

[pimay11]

I am just curious how much money has been donated to help the common people by Thaksin Shinawatra, Potjamin Domapong and Yingluck Shinawatra. My guess is that it is dam_n little and that donation of a few water pumps by Thaksin was a token effort for publicity.

The elites will only become even stronger after this this is over because they will still have all their wealth and their "red" supporters will have even less than they had before. It is naive to think the government is going to reimburse all of the flood losses. The rich will get help to rebuild their empires and the poor people are Sht Out of Luck.

It is very interesting how Thaksin seems to have distanced himself from Yingluck now that the flood disaster has been so poorly managed. Yingluck may well drown before this is over but the real leader of the country, Thaksin will just swim away.

I think you are missing a few things there. Like support for Yingluck and ther reds upcountry isnt going away easily, and even if the PTP lose support it certainly isnt going to switch to the Dems under any circumstances. And many many blame the BKK governor as much or more than Yingluck. However, how the recovery goes will be crucial and PTP control that totally so their destiny is in their own hands unless extra-parliamentary powers try to use legal and bureaucratic means to stylie the recovery. That though will likely backfire as badly on them as every other recent manouver has. The elite would be best to just let PTP do what it wants and hope they screw up, but I wouldnt think they will sit back and not interfere.

Also the rich/poor divide has worsened over this as has the BKK/elsewhere divide and the divide in BKK has worsened.

"The elite would be best to just let PTP do what it wants"? You must have overlooked the fact that the leaders of the PTP are the elite.

[Time Traveller]

We are suffering to protect inner Bangkok, but is Bangkok grateful, will they help us refurnish and repair our homes? Obviously as a farang that is out of the question, but what about the Thais?

Just what is being protected that is so important, inner Bangkok is a commercial centre, yes a nexus of head offices, but what use are they with their up country factories and manufacturing bases destroyed. Just tell me in simple language just what is so vital in inner Bangkok that my home is ruined? Then convince the Thais in my area.

These people live from week to week, unlike the salaried elite in Bangkok, how can they start again from scratch, how will they cope with the filth and destruction of their communities. Bangkok has a lot to answer for, I hope they have some damned good answers.

The answer is democracy. A few must suffer for the benefit of the majority. That's how it works, as cold and heartless as that is, that's democracy for you. Bangkok has about 12 million people, the neighboring flooded areas have less than 12 million people. Don't be misled in your thinking, every person is sympathetic to you and all others that have their homes and property flooded and have suffered. But how does making another 12 million people flooded improve the country's situation? Here's something else you should know also. Bangkok is not a city of salaried elite as you say. There are many poor people who live here as well. And something else. Even if it central bangkok were to flood do you really think it would be the elite that would suffer? Yes, you guessed right, it would be the poor people who live in slums along the klongs and rivers, and those who work on the streets who suffer the most.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Time Traveller

[robblok]

Three little pigs lived in three little houses. The first one was built out of straw and was destroyed when the flooding came. The second house was built by wood and stood up when the water came, but the little piggy had to move up to the second floor. The third house was built out of cement and had a large wall around the land and the water didn't enter it. The second piggy become very angry on the third one not 'sharing the pain' and went to break down the wall around it, housing both the third piggy and the first piggy that ran there as a flooding-refugee.

How will the story end?

And where will the piggies live later?

Its more like 2 little piggies one build his house in a flood prone area the other build outside this area. Then piggy nr build a big dam diverting the water into piggy nr 2his house. Piggy nr 2 begged piggy nr 1 to let some water through to help. Piggy nr 1 was too hi so to listen so piggy nr 2 got angry and trashed his dams. Now Piggy nr 2 his house is no longer flooded and the water quickly moved through the house of piggy nr 1 and now they are both dry.

[sparebox2]

I am reminded of the movie "The Man Who Would Be King" (based on a Kipling book). Two fortune hunters venture into the mythical kingdom of Kafiristan, and find bunch of locals who hate the people who live up the river. "Why do you hate these people so much?" to which they reply "Every time we go to the river to bathe the tribe upstream pees in the river", the protagonists Daniel and Peachy travel further up the river and find the people living there equally loathe the another tribe further up the river, again they ask "Why do you hate these people so much?" to which they reply "Every time we go to the river to bathe the tribe upstream pees in the river"……….. so it goes.

please get me on your medication..!

-kevbap-

Whats your problem?

That story shows in a funny way, how the blaming of others go on and on. Not much different now here around BKK.

Nobody is responsible and nobody really knows how to solve the problem fast without more damage. But everybody knows somebody he can blame for that crazy disaster!

lighten up, or take some medication !!!!

This is no time to tell jokes, when million are suffering.

(A bit like the Chiangmai Christian school having a laugh on their sport day uniform a couple of months ago).

[animatic]

This is why the Emergency needed to be declared.

This rash action by a mob was a forgone conclusion.

And nothing is strong enough to stand up to it at the present juncture.

Flood control can NOT EVER be left to the mercurial whims of enraged Mobs.

[animatic]

Three little pigs lived in three little houses. The first one was built out of straw and was destroyed when the flooding came. The second house was built by wood and stood up when the water came, but the little piggy had to move up to the second floor. The third house was built out of cement and had a large wall around the land and the water didn't enter it. The second piggy become very angry on the third one not 'sharing the pain' and went to break down the wall around it, housing both the third piggy and the first piggy that ran there as a flooding-refugee.

How will the story end?

And where will the piggies live later?

And pay for repairing all THREE houses,

and what will the eat and drink while waiting it out?

[Kvwielink]

This is why the Emergency needed to be declared.

This rash action by a mob was a forgone conclusion.

And nothing is strong enough to stand up to it at the present juncture.

Flood control can NOT EVER be left to the mercurial whims of enraged Mobs.

Or to politicians who have no bloody clue what they're talking about. It's madness that it's politicians who decide which gates to open, which gates to close, etc. Get some experts in, give the all the decision making power they need, and have them fix it. Letting politics determine the outcome results in the mess we currently have, and will only get worse if they keep it up.

[MILT]

Donations?!!! You're dreaming. Thai people have no concept of charity! They could watch you die in the street.... Just look how wealth is distributed in a RICH country like Thailand. How many humanitarian THAI organizations do you know of?

What kind of world are you living in? Most of my Thai friends have used their hard earned cash for donations to Red Cross and local flood relief organization. My gf alone have given 3,000 Baht out of a salary around 20,000. How much have you given?

Hush up1 You are just another Thai basher!!!! Take another drink and go to sleep. Know what you are talking about instead of spewing out this kind of sh*t

Edited November 1, 2011 by MILT

[Tanaka]

I am fully in agreement with these people, why should they endure more days of flooding just to keep a few places dry! Here in Don Muang I as still experiencing rising water in my house, I will be unable to work today and will lose income because of it, why should I have a few more days of this if it can be lessened?

Because if the inner centre of Bangkok will be flooded, everything will be much more difficult to organize, communication, economy, helping other people, everything will just collapse.

If you guys fails to see this, you are just not very intelligent.

There has not been much of an organization so far.

[marinediscoking]

Loosing control of the sluice gates is one step closer to anarchy!

"The elite should suffer like us" The elite have already fled bangkok.

All these comments about flooding other parts of bangkok too ease my suffering sound very self centering to me.

Also what happened to "Self reliance"?

Posters asking for compensation from the government and expecting them to provide normal transportation during an disaster?

IS YOUR MOTHER STILL DRESSING YOU IN THE MORNING?

[Tanaka]

This is why the Emergency needed to be declared.

This rash action by a mob was a forgone conclusion.

And nothing is strong enough to stand up to it at the present juncture.

Flood control can NOT EVER be left to the mercurial whims of enraged Mobs.

Or to politicians who have no bloody clue what they're talking about. It's madness that it's politicians who decide which gates to open, which gates to close, etc. Get some experts in, give the all the decision making power they need, and have them fix it. Letting politics determine the outcome results in the mess we currently have, and will only get worse if they keep it up.

By experts you mean foreigners as there are no experts in Thailand. And as that would mean loss of face for the government in their eyes, it will not happen. They will rather drown their citizens.

[ableguy]

now i understand more of the problem. Wuite logical that they want that opened more. It drains through BKK straight in the sea. Its madness blocking North to South connections and expecting the locals to endure more hardship.

It might GO through Bangkok straight to the sea, but how much will it flood on the way ... especially as it goes past Suvarnabhumi and not far from the Lam Lukka industrial estate.

what a soap opera this is.

[whybother]

Interesting, from that map it looks as the canal goes dead south all the way to Suvarnabhumi... No wonder they don't want to open it lol

They are more afraid it will flow down San Saeb and into Bangkapi.

Map on the first page is wrong, the actual location is here

http://maps.google.c...a54bb471bca688e

Same Klong ... just a bit further south. Thanks.

[anterian]

We are suffering to protect inner Bangkok, but is Bangkok grateful, will they help us refurnish and repair our homes? Obviously as a farang that is out of the question, but what about the Thais?

Just what is being protected that is so important, inner Bangkok is a commercial centre, yes a nexus of head offices, but what use are they with their up country factories and manufacturing bases destroyed. Just tell me in simple language just what is so vital in inner Bangkok that my home is ruined? Then convince the Thais in my area.

These people live from week to week, unlike the salaried elite in Bangkok, how can they start again from scratch, how will they cope with the filth and destruction of their communities. Bangkok has a lot to answer for, I hope they have some damned good answers.

The answer is democracy. A few must suffer for the benefit of the majority. That's how it works, as cold and heartless as that is, that's democracy for you. Bangkok has about 12 million people, the neighboring flooded areas have less than 12 million people. Don't be misled in your thinking, every person is sympathetic to you and all others that have their homes and property flooded and have suffered. But how does making another 12 million people flooded improve the country's situation? Here's something else you should know also. Bangkok is not a city of salaried elite as you say. There are many poor people who live here as well. And something else. Even if it central bangkok were to flood do you really think it would be the elite that would suffer? Yes, you guessed right, it would be the poor people who live in slums along the klongs and rivers, and those who work on the streets who suffer the most.

Typically you miss my point, the crux of my post was the concept of gratitude, tangible gratitude not just platitudes.

As to democracy, since when has that ever applied to Thailand? Furthermore I lived in Bangkok for several years when I first came here, so yes I know about the poor, the shop front sleepers and those 5 or more to a room. Your own comment reinforces my point, the elite never suffer, more to the point very few help.

I'm not bothered about me, I can take the hit, but what about the high and dry in Bangkok are they going to help the Thais around me? In one fell swoop the poor have become poorer, what little they had is gone or ruined. We don't want you sympathy, we (the Thais) want compensation, beds, clothes, fans, children's toys and school books, the list goes on.

Take the example of the neighbour with the house on fire, it is beyond saving, so he helps you save yours. Do you just say thank you very much here's a 100 Baht. Or do you help him to rebuild his home?

[whybother]

now i understand more of the problem. Wuite logical that they want that opened more. It drains through BKK straight in the sea. Its madness blocking North to South connections and expecting the locals to endure more hardship.

It might GO through Bangkok straight to the sea, but how much will it flood on the way ... especially as it goes past Suvarnabhumi and not far from the Lam Lukka industrial estate.

Suvarnabhumi Airport is now at risk of being inundated now that Govt is forcing open the sluice gate at Khlong Sam Wa./via@thanongK