Thai Officials On Defensive As Flood Anger Mounts

[Lite Beer]

Thai officials on defensive as flood anger mounts

by Janesara Fugal

BANGKOK, November 1, 2011 (AFP) - Bangkok authorities insisted on Tuesday they could not ease the flooding crisis for everyone in the city, as anger and misery grew in inundated areas over the lack of assistance from officials.

Although inner areas of the capital have remained dry, the situation is critical in several outlying districts, where residents have protested that their homes are being sacrificed to save central parts of the city.

But Bangkok authorities justified efforts to spare the glitzy downtown area as much as possible by diverting the brunt of the water to other neighbourhoods.

"Bangkok is the heart, you can cut your hand but you have to save your heart, because if your heart fails, everything fails," Jate Sopitpongstorn, a spokesman for the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA), told AFP.

Thailand's worst flooding in decades, triggered by unusually heavy monsoon rains that began three months ago, have claimed more than 380 lives and affected the homes and livelihoods of millions across the kingdom.

Inflation rose in October as flood damage to farmland forced up food prices, according to government data released on Tuesday.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and Bangkok officials have clashed over how much water should be let through certain sluice gates to the north of the city centre to ease the pressure on inundated communities.

On Monday, Yingluck caved in to protesters and ordered a gate in the northeastern district of Khlong Sam Wa to be raised to one metre (three feet) to allow more water through and relieve those in the immediate vicinity.

But Bangkok governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra on Tuesday warned the move could put other areas of the city, including industrial estates, at risk of flooding if other gates further north were not closed.

He said he had to consider the needs of all of the megacity's economic and political heartland.

"I love the people, as do other elected politicians, but sometimes I have to be tough with the demands of the minority for the sake of the majority," Sukhumbhand said in a televised press briefing.

"I cannot yield to every demand," he said, adding city authorities and the government should try "to find a common position".

Central Bangkok has largely been spared from major inundation after barriers along Bangkok's swollen Chao Phraya River prevented a major overflow during a spring high tide over the weekend.

But in districts such as western Bang Phlat, just five kilometres (three miles) from downtown Bangkok, homes were badly damaged and streets turned into deep canals of filthy water, with no official help in sight.

"I want the government to come and take care of us. We have asked for help but nobody comes. We asked for boats, food, medicines, but nothing," said Pailin Sontana, 58, as he waded waist-deep through the brown liquid.

Yupin Songsuk, a 38-year-old housekeeper at a hotel, said the situation showed no signs of improving, with more water on the way.

"We can still eat and drink the things we stocked, but what about later on, if nobody comes to help us?" she told AFP.

BMA spokesman Jate admitted they were unable to help everyone who refused to move to a shelter. "We have limited numbers of army vehicles and boats and we cannot go into every street and hand out food and water three times a day."

And an official from the government's Flood Relief Operations Centre (FROC) said parts of western Bangkok could be inundated for another month because of ineffective drainage systems.

Further east, Bangkok's main international air hub Suvarnabhumi is operating as normal but Don Mueang airport, the city's second-largest which lies to the north, has been shut for a week.

"I have assigned the air force chief to pump out water from Don Mueang airport's taxiways and runways before Friday," Defence Minister General Yuthasak Sasiprapa told reporters.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-11-01

[wintermute]

"We have limited numbers of army vehicles and boats and we cannot go into every street and hand out food and water three times a day," he said.

Gee, maybe this wouldn't be a problem if maybe they accepted the help of a certain massive carrier equipped with a dozen helicopters and aircraft capable of providing logistics.

[Thaifever]

How can you argue with that? Get these people some help. I don't understand how this place can be so unorganized during such a serious crisis. The way these people act makes them come across as plain stupid. They to deny international help as if it's an embarrassment rather than taking help which is needed to keep people alive and minimize damage to people and infrastructure. Instead of sending a clear message it just gets garbled in political jargon and superficial attmpts at pacifying, or lying to the general public. Idiots!

[krading]

I love the people, as do other elected politicians

:lol:

[metisdead]

A post containing false information has been removed as well as a reply to that post.

[yoshiwara]

To ask someone to help or accept offered help, you need the State of Emergency???

"Beam me up, Scotty! There is no intelligent life down here!"

State of Emergency = Army on the streets en masse = C**p d'etat = Thaksin cannot return home as planned.

For the government to currently accept international support it is de facto recognising that there is a state of emergency or at least would have to respond to some uncomfortable questions.

With the Thai army controlling the the streets and authorised by the government, this would oh so confuse the red supporters who would see it as being pushed back (again) and upset the Thaksin agenda. For sure.

Beam him up!

[givenall]

As usual, can’t count on the government and police to keep the peace. It istime to call the Army

Also These actions by angry Thais will not be forgotten by Bangkokresidence. When time comes, then people with Bangkok will be less generous tohelp the flood effected people. What I know about Thai people they are very revengeful

[aaacorp]

As usual, can't count on the government and police to keep the peace. It istime to call the Army

Also These actions by angry Thais will not be forgotten by Bangkokresidence. When time comes, then people with Bangkok will be less generous tohelp the flood effected people. What I know about Thai people they are very revengeful

Well in fact if such scenario becomes true then the bangkokian will have a lot to worry about...as far as i remember there are few rice fields, chicken farms and so so in bkk.....

[ramrod711]

"We have limited numbers of army vehicles and boats and we cannot go into every street and hand out food and water three times a day," he said.

Gee, maybe this wouldn't be a problem if maybe they accepted the help of a certain massive carrier equipped with a dozen helicopters and aircraft capable of providing logistics.

or, they could have begun preparing bangkok for flooding when record rainfalls were happening in the north and every city downriver flooded. instead of preparing for flooding they prepared their excuses, "the water came so fast, we had no time". true, only three months, what could they do. they did manage to make an international laughing stock out of the country by putting all those boats on the river and burning a lot of fuel.

[DocN]

To ask someone to help or accept offered help, you need the State of Emergency???

"Beam me up, Scotty! There is no intelligent life down here!"

State of Emergency = Army on the streets en masse = C**p d'etat = Thaksin cannot return home as planned.

For the government to currently accept international support it is de facto recognising that there is a state of emergency or at least would have to respond to some uncomfortable questions.

With the Thai army controlling the the streets and authorised by the government, this would oh so confuse the red supporters who would see it as being pushed back (again) and upset the Thaksin agenda. For sure.

Beam him up!

Ok, I know this question was put to other peopel on other threads: what would a SOE help and what would it allow, that is not enforced now?

Why does even the Army chief say, it is not necessary to have the SOE and you seem to know better?

Please tell! Otherwise "Scotty...pleeeeeeease..."

[sparebox2]

After what the army have done last year, nobody wants another SOE, even if the whole country is flooded.

[metisdead]

It is perfectly acceptable to report on events and give opinions, it is not acceptable to post in a manner in which to bash any specific country. One post removed as well as a reply.

[jybkk]

"We have limited numbers of army vehicles and boats and we cannot go into every street and hand out food and water three times a day," he said.

This is exactly why they can't afford to let the flooding to extend to a lot more districts in Bangkok. While it might (very hypothetically) reduce the height of water in the already flooded zones, it will spread even more thinly the resources they have for rescue. It's probably much easier to handle a limited perimeter of high level flooding than a larger perimeter of medium level.

[sparebox2]

"We have limited numbers of army vehicles and boats and we cannot go into every street and hand out food and water three times a day," he said.

This is exactly why they can't afford to let the flooding to extend to a lot more districts in Bangkok. While it might (very hypothetically) reduce the height of water in the already flooded zones, it will spread even more thinly the resources they have for rescue. It's probably much easier to handle a limited perimeter of high level flooding than a larger perimeter of medium level.

Spread evening is good. So everyone get 10 to 15 cm of water. Rather than having some poor farmers take 2m deep water by themselves.

Also, most people in central BKK live in condos. 10 to 15 cm of water won't even hit their lobby.

[whybother]

Spread evening is good. So everyone get 10 to 15 cm of water. Rather than having some poor farmers take 2m deep water by themselves.

Also, most people in central BKK live in condos. 10 to 15 cm of water won't even hit their lobby.

It doesn't quite work like that. Many areas would get a metre or more of water. There are also a lot of basements that would get flooded.

A lot of major roads would not be able to be used. Look at what's happening around Don Mueang. 1 - 2 metres of water.

Most people in Bangkok live in 4-6 story apartment buildings, without cooking facilities. They rely on all the food businesses at ground level to eat. How do you get food to a 5 million people?

[Lifer]

"We have limited numbers of army vehicles and boats and we cannot go into every street and hand out food and water three times a day," he said.

Gee, maybe this wouldn't be a problem if maybe they accepted the help of a certain massive carrier equipped with a dozen helicopters and aircraft capable of providing logistics.

Your right about that!

[alexakap]

"We have limited numbers of army vehicles and boats and we cannot go into every street and hand out food and water three times a day," he said.

This is exactly why they can't afford to let the flooding to extend to a lot more districts in Bangkok. While it might (very hypothetically) reduce the height of water in the already flooded zones, it will spread even more thinly the resources they have for rescue. It's probably much easier to handle a limited perimeter of high level flooding than a larger perimeter of medium level.

Spread evening is good. So everyone get 10 to 15 cm of water. Rather than having some poor farmers take 2m deep water by themselves.

Also, most people in central BKK live in condos. 10 to 15 cm of water won't even hit their lobby.

...and how did you get those "10-15cm" per Bkk?

Bkk is just a small dot on the map. And you seems have no idea HOW MUCH water is waiting up there, right on DonMueang...This "dot on the map" WILL BE FLOODED without any noticeable level drops in the already flooded arres (read: the deepness will be somehow equal to the already flooded areas). And now have an educational drive to Don Mueang...

[jybkk]

"We have limited numbers of army vehicles and boats and we cannot go into every street and hand out food and water three times a day," he said.

This is exactly why they can't afford to let the flooding to extend to a lot more districts in Bangkok. While it might (very hypothetically) reduce the height of water in the already flooded zones, it will spread even more thinly the resources they have for rescue. It's probably much easier to handle a limited perimeter of high level flooding than a larger perimeter of medium level.

Spread evening is good. So everyone get 10 to 15 cm of water. Rather than having some poor farmers take 2m deep water by themselves.

Also, most people in central BKK live in condos. 10 to 15 cm of water won't even hit their lobby.

Do you really think it works like that? Just "spread" the water evenly? Bangkok is not flat.

I'm not even talking about Central Bangkok but for example suburbs on the east. Around Suvarnabhumi for example you have a low-lying basin. This basically means that if you try to "spread" a flooding of 10-15 cm over central Bangkok, then this area will be under 2-3 m. of water... then the water will be stuck there for a long while (see definition of "basin"). What would be the point? Damage more houses so that houses that are already damaged by floods will have... less water? They will still be damaged. And they will still be flooded. So you will still have to organise rescue over there AND in the newly flooded zones. It's a bit like catching your nighbour's cold to show your support. Doesn't help him much, but now both of you are sick.

Furthermore, if you think "most people" in Bangkok live in Condos, you've not been looking very carefully.

Unfortunately, I don't think authorities have much choice here: they're trying to contain the flood in the zones already flooded while evacuating as much water as they can through the sea. Maybe they could drain it even faster by pushing more on the capacity of the canals. I'm no hydrologist. But I'm convinced that "spreading" the problem would just make things worse.

[alexakap]

Unfortunately, I don't think authorities have much choice here: they're trying to contain the flood in the zones already flooded while evacuating as much water as they can through the sea. Maybe they could drain it even faster by pushing more on the capacity of the canals. I'm no hydrologist. But I'm convinced that "spreading" the problem would just make things worse.

But keeping water on north side (as it is now) is also dangerous: the water MUST flow to South, and more you block it now - more will flow tomorrow.

But that WILL flow (as a spice melange, yeah.

Seems whatever you do - you'll fail....We ppl cant play Gods well.

Edited November 1, 2011 by alexakap

[whybother]

Unfortunately, I don't think authorities have much choice here: they're trying to contain the flood in the zones already flooded while evacuating as much water as they can through the sea. Maybe they could drain it even faster by pushing more on the capacity of the canals. I'm no hydrologist. But I'm convinced that "spreading" the problem would just make things worse.

But keeping water on north side (as it is now) is also dangerous: the water MUST flow to South, and more you block it now - more will flow tomorrow.

But that WILL flow (as a spice melange, yeah.

Seems whatever you do - you'll fail....We ppl cant play Gods well.

The river isn't blocked. It is still flowing. Some of the canals are also flowing, but in a controlled manner (except for the one forced open by locals ofcourse).

[alexakap]

Unfortunately, I don't think authorities have much choice here: they're trying to contain the flood in the zones already flooded while evacuating as much water as they can through the sea. Maybe they could drain it even faster by pushing more on the capacity of the canals. I'm no hydrologist. But I'm convinced that "spreading" the problem would just make things worse.

But keeping water on north side (as it is now) is also dangerous: the water MUST flow to South, and more you block it now - more will flow tomorrow.

But that WILL flow (as a spice melange, yeah.

Seems whatever you do - you'll fail....We ppl cant play Gods well.

The river isn't blocked. It is still flowing. Some of the canals are also flowing, but in a controlled manner (except for the one forced open by locals ofcourse).

Once again: SEE THE MAP.

The river NOT helping here, nor canals. You can't emprty your swimming pool with a teaspoon, I am sorry.

It is a HUGEEEEEE volume of water going down everywhere (out of the river's basin).

Hold on, I'll search the pic for you...

[alexakap]

Hold on, I'll search the pic for you...

Here it is: http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=76234

(download a huge res to get the whole picture of the problem)

[whybother]

But keeping water on north side (as it is now) is also dangerous: the water MUST flow to South, and more you block it now - more will flow tomorrow.

But that WILL flow (as a spice melange, yeah.

Seems whatever you do - you'll fail....We ppl cant play Gods well.

The river isn't blocked. It is still flowing. Some of the canals are also flowing, but in a controlled manner (except for the one forced open by locals ofcourse).

Once again: SEE THE MAP.

The river NOT helping here, nor canals. You can't emprty your swimming pool with a teaspoon, I am sorry.

It is a HUGEEEEEE volume of water going down everywhere (out of the river's basin).

Hold on, I'll search the pic for you...

If the river and the canals aren't helping, what can anyone do?

The water is moving SLOWLY flowing to the south. You can break down the flood walls, and it will still move SLOWLY to the south. It isn't being "kept" on the north side. There is a hell of a lot of water, and it is moving slowly.

[alexakap]

If the river and the canals aren't helping, what can anyone do?

The water is moving SLOWLY flowing to the south. You can break down the flood walls, and it will still move SLOWLY to the south. It isn't being "kept" on the north side. There is a hell of a lot of water, and it is moving slowly.

Don't explain to me abot how and where the water flows: it is my 2nd week of being soaked at Pathumthani, and it flows right through my corridor.

Once again: you have no idea how MUCH and how FAST those waters are. I do.

PS: and it IS being kept here. Go and see the CLOSED watergates at Klong Prapa (protecting the lower areas such as ChaengWattana and so on). Those are shut, man. And at my house I got around 1.5-1.8m of water then (Im higher that thi watergate),

PPS: and the water (here) flows NOT no Bangkok - not to south. It flows (here) from east to west, bypassing Klong prapa (which leads north to south but shut).

Edited November 1, 2011 by alexakap

[jybkk]

Unfortunately, I don't think authorities have much choice here: they're trying to contain the flood in the zones already flooded while evacuating as much water as they can through the sea. Maybe they could drain it even faster by pushing more on the capacity of the canals. I'm no hydrologist. But I'm convinced that "spreading" the problem would just make things worse.

But keeping water on north side (as it is now) is also dangerous: the water MUST flow to South, and more you block it now - more will flow tomorrow.

But that WILL flow (as a spice melange, yeah.

Seems whatever you do - you'll fail....We ppl cant play Gods well.

The river isn't blocked. It is still flowing. Some of the canals are also flowing, but in a controlled manner (except for the one forced open by locals ofcourse).

Once again: SEE THE MAP.

The river NOT helping here, nor canals. You can't emprty your swimming pool with a teaspoon, I am sorry.

It is a HUGEEEEEE volume of water going down everywhere (out of the river's basin).

Hold on, I'll search the pic for you...

From "another" newspaper this morning:

The Flood Relief Operation Command yesterday estimated that about 9.9 billion cubic metres of northern run-off had been drained to the sea in the east and west of Bangkok and there remained about 5.5 billion cu/m.

At a rate of 550 million cu/m a day of drainage capacity, the water volume should be drained in 10 days.

Doesn't sound much like "blocking" to me.

Another indication that this strategy seems to be working is that over the last few days, the extension of the flooding in the southern part has been pretty limited while most of zones already flooded report a stabilisation of the level or even a decrease.

I sure hope hydrologists do more than just looking at a map and decide on a hunch that the best route from A to B is the straight line.

[whybother]

If the river and the canals aren't helping, what can anyone do?

The water is moving SLOWLY flowing to the south. You can break down the flood walls, and it will still move SLOWLY to the south. It isn't being "kept" on the north side. There is a hell of a lot of water, and it is moving slowly.

Don't explain to me abot how and where the water flows: it is my 2nd week of being soaked at Pathumthani, and it flows right through my corridor.

Once again: you have no idea how MUCH and how FAST those waters are. I do.

If it's flowing fast, it isn't blocked.

[whybother]

Spread evening is good. So everyone get 10 to 15 cm of water. Rather than having some poor farmers take 2m deep water by themselves.

Also, most people in central BKK live in condos. 10 to 15 cm of water won't even hit their lobby.

It doesn't quite work like that. Many areas would get a metre or more of water. There are also a lot of basements that would get flooded.

A lot of major roads would not be able to be used. Look at what's happening around Don Mueang. 1 - 2 metres of water.

Most people in Bangkok live in 4-6 story apartment buildings, without cooking facilities. They rely on all the food businesses at ground level to eat. How do you get food to a 5 million people?

A good example of how the water doesn't spread.

Expensive Don Muang grounding, give it a meter or so more and these big birds may even float away http://yfrog.com/nz7d6aj @BangkokDan

[givenall]

After what the army have done last year, nobody wants another SOE, even if the whole country is flooded.

the only ones who are afraid of SOE and asking Army to get involved, are theThaksin gang, that their incompetence become obvious and then they lose face

[whybother]

Don't explain to me abot how and where the water flows: it is my 2nd week of being soaked at Pathumthani, and it flows right through my corridor.

Once again: you have no idea how MUCH and how FAST those waters are. I do.

PS: and it IS being kept here. Go and see the CLOSED watergates at Klong Prapa (protecting the lower areas such as ChaengWattana and so on). Those are shut, man. And at my house I got around 1.5-1.8m of water then (Im higher that thi watergate),

PPS: and the water (here) flows NOT no Bangkok - not to south. It flows (here) from east to west, bypassing Klong prapa (which leads north to south but shut).

And one place where they have been forced to open the flood gates is now flooding areas south of it, without making much difference up stream of the flood gate.

[alexakap]

From "another" newspaper this morning:

The Flood Relief Operation Command yesterday estimated that about 9.9 billion cubic metres of northern run-off had been drained to the sea in the east and west of Bangkok and there remained about 5.5 billion cu/m.

At a rate of 550 million cu/m a day of drainage capacity, the water volume should be drained in 10 days.

Doesn't sound much like "blocking" to me.

I also was listening to FROC announcements - right until the water entered my Soi.

And now there is 1.8m of water. Sorry, I stop listeting that FROCced crap 2 weeks ago then.

They can't even protect THEMSELVES from flooding, and must relocate..How will they protect ME??