Where Is Our Uniquely Caring Thai Society?

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE

Where is our uniquely caring Thai society?

Pravit Rojanaphruk

After weeks of suffering perhaps the worst flood in a century and being inundated with selfish reactions, how many of us can still hold that Thailand is a uniquely caring and united society?

If you lived in a poor community like Klong Sam Wa and were told by politicians to endure waist-deep stinking water for nearly three months as "a sacrifice" just so others could remain dry, would you still believe in the myth of a uniquely caring Thai society?

Reports of these poor residents forming "mobs" to demand action because they have had enough made headline news yesterday. These angry folks won't settle for the opening of a sluice gate - they want a channel to be dug up so more water can be released downstream, to the possible detriment of richer parts of Bangkok, including the eastern industrial estates.

Is that fair? The answer depends very much on who you are.

So far, some 200 soldiers have been deployed to guard flood barriers in the northern parts of the capital as conflicts between flooded and non-flooded sides continue breaking out in provinces like Nakhon Pathom and Chachoengsao.

The past month or so has certainly tested the notion of a caring and united Thailand, with the stress and strain stripping this cherished idea to the point where can we see our society naked.

People have been selfishly hoarding masses of bottled drinking water and food, while cars are double- or even triple-parked on elevated roads with no regard to how it's affecting traffic. Then there is the constant bickering between the ruling Pheu Thai Party and opposition Democrats as both sides try to make the most out of this disaster, not to mention those who are so busy watching this political soap opera that they have no time to help. Adding to the spectacle are the movie stars and television hosts who see the floods as a chance to promote themselves.

In addition to all that, some shops are cashing in by selling basic necessities at marked up prices, while luxury malls seem to be too busy putting up plastic Christmas decorations to help raise funds for victims.

Nobody can deny that for every instance of selfishness, there are also examples of selfless sacrifice, but we need to ask ourselves one question: have the richer parts of Bangkok become so important that they need to be saved at the cost of Thailand's future?

In reality, rich folk can avoid the floods by taking refuge at posh beach resorts that charge Bt10,000 per night, which is more than a month's wage for most factory workers, some of whom have already lost their jobs to the floods. Others can fly abroad to escape the reality at home.

If people want to cling to the image of Thailand as a uniquely caring and united society, that's fine - but they must make it a reality through their actions. If you have already abandoned that image, or never subscribed to it in the first place, that's also fine. But it would be much appreciated if you would be kind enough not to cause any unnecessary burden at this stage.

-- The Nation 2011-11-02

[endure]

You can always leave the wordprocessor at home and fill a few sandbags Pravit. Isn't middle class angst sickening?

[whybother]

Nobody can deny that for every instance of selfishness, there are also examples of selfless sacrifice, but we need to ask ourselves one question: have the richer parts of Bangkok become so important that they need to be saved at the cost of Thailand's future?

In reality, rich folk can avoid the floods by taking refuge at posh beach resorts that charge Bt10,000 per night, which is more than a month's wage for most factory workers, some of whom have already lost their jobs to the floods. Others can fly abroad to escape the reality at home.

It's idiotic to suggest that Bangkok is being saved for the few "rich folk" that would pay 10,000 baht per night to stay out of Bangkok.

Does Pravit think that flooding Bangkok would be good for Thailand's future?

[jackr]

If people want to cling to the image of Thailand as a uniquely caring and united society, that's fine - but they must make it a reality through their actions. If you have already abandoned that image, or never subscribed to it in the first place, that's also fine

I'm of the latter, thanks. Deep down, it's generally been dog-eat-dog for as long as I've lived here from top to bottom.

And this notion that inner Bangkok is populated by the rich only is getting old.

[sparebox2]

No double standard please.

Poor people must have equal right to survive.

Rich bangkok people must share the pain, and take the water too.

[LuckyLew]

Ever since I have been here, Thailand has never been united

There has always been some sort of feud going on.

Seems every year one form of disaster its Thailand

Airports closed - Downtown core shut down - now floods

It is always one side versus the other.

Thai people are always happy and smiling until something

affects them negatively .... then we see another side

[whybother]

No double standard please.

Poor people must have equal right to survive.

Rich bangkok people must share the pain, and take the water too.

Actually, what you're calling for is that "Poor people have an equal right to be flooded", because that's what would happen if Bangkok was flooded.

[digibum]

First off, let me say that I'm not trying to bash Thai people here. I think this is a valid observation about this so-called uniquely caring Thai society.

As farangs males we learn that there is one time that it is always okay to lie. Whenever we're asked to comment on a woman's looks, fashion, or personality society has rammed it into our heads that we must say something nice. Does my butt look big in these jeans? Of course not, baby. You look wonderful. Do you like this top? It's beautiful and you'll look beautiful in it.

And in Thailand, Thai women, more than any other type of women I've ever met, fish for those compliments. They're constantly looking for validation via baiting you to send them compliments. In fact, unlike farang women, Thai women help you answer the question. Don't I look cute? Yes, of course. Isn't this dress beautiful? Yes, darling.

But in Thailand, the other thing you're expected to lie about is your love of Thailand, Thai culture, Thai food, and anything else Thai. I can't even count the number of times I've been asked whether I love Thailand or Thai culture. It's one of the first questions you get asked after being introduced. In fact, even traveling outside of Thailand if you meet Thai people and tell them you've been to Thailand they ask you whether or not you love their country.

How does this relate? Because both forms of white-lies create a sort of false reality. Fat women think they look good in too tight jeans. Women think that having oversized irises that are shockingly blue make them look cute instead of like a character out of a Twighlight movie.

And so too, the Thai people have a completely unrealistic view of Thai culture. And most have no clue, nor do they care, how their culture stacks up against other cultures. They're so used to hearing about how great, how generous, how caring, how compassionate Thai culture is that few people actually bother to validate whether or not what they're hearing is correct.

That doesn't mean Thai people are bad or worse than anybody else. It just means that there's a tendency to believe things about their culture that aren't true.

The only people really surprised at the flood efforts turning into total chaos with infighting and political bickering are . . . the Thais. It hasn't surprised any of the farangs I've spoken with who know how things work in Thailand. It doesn't surprise any of the economists or regional experts who cover Thailand.

This article, just like many other OpEd pieces in every other Thailand-based newspaper, written by a Thai journalist, has that same sort of fantasy air to it. They believe what they're saying but that doesn't make it accurate. They believe what they're saying because they shut out all of the contradictory evidence.

Thais haven't been what K'Pravit describes for at least 20 or 30 years. I only go back that far because that's as far back as I know people who can give first-hand accounts. But based on the fact that there have been 18 coups since 1932 it doesn't seem that the Thai people have been especially united.

[jonclark]

And this notion that inner Bangkok is populated by the rich only is getting old.

You've obviously never been to Klong Toei, beautiful place, swimming pools, models waltzing around in bikinis, mercs and BMW in each and every drive way, impeccably manicured gardens. A very rich and salubrious district. Too rich? Perhaps sir might like to consider Klong Tan or Din Daeng, slightly less up-scale but still an enviable address for those with money to spend.

You are spot on- It's a myth created by people who live outside of Bangkok to justify their actions and prejudices. Similar to the old Dick Whittington story and the streets of London being paved with gold.

Is Thailand a caring society - I think the fairest assessment would be to say Thailand is as caring as any other 21st Century country. Unfortunately bad news makes good headlines as we often overlook the good in our society and focus on the bad.

[Sharp]

Many Thais r not truly nice people anymore and u can all argue the fact but after nearly 20 yrs here they have changed beyond belief maybe learning the western ways then going overboard picking the bad habits but I live with it and accept it but it is truly my opinion honest and true..

[Cnxforever]

a uniquely caring Thai society....very funny ..nobody gives a dam_n here about anybody else unless it's family or friends.

Any disaster here is mostly seen as an opportunity to make a profit by those in the position to exploit the situation.

Where are all the super-rich Thais donating I wonder ??? - Oh yes - they are making money by supplying the relieve goods bought for cash donated by the average Somchai.

and regarding the flooding - Whats new?

I read a book called "Profit and Loss" published in the 1970's about a Hamburg,Germany based tropical wood trader in the 60's - apart from the "influential" people and corruption involved in the destruction of the Thai forests it deals with the yearly flooding of Bangkok during the rainy season and how the influential and rich made sure certain areas of Bangkok never flooded because the water was diverted into areas away from the "important, rich and influential" people.

This was in the 1960's - 50+ years have passed and nothing has changed!

[maidu]

a uniquely caring Thai society....very funny ..nobody gives a dam_n here about anybody else unless it's family or friends.

Any disaster here is mostly seen as an opportunity to make a profit by those in the position to exploit the situation.

Where are all the super-rich Thais donating I wonder ??? - Oh yes - they are making money by supplying the relieve goods bought for cash donated by the average Somchai.

and regarding the flooding - Whats new?

I read a book called "Profit and Loss" published in the 1970's about a Hamburg,Germany based tropical wood trader in the 60's - apart from the "influential" people and corruption involved in the destruction of the Thai forests it deals with the yearly flooding of Bangkok during the rainy season and how the influential and rich made sure certain areas of Bangkok never flooded because the water was diverted into areas away from the "important, rich and influential" people.

This was in the 1960's - 50+ years have passed and nothing has changed!

I have to agree. It sounds sweet to say the phrase "a uniquely caring Thai society" but it doesn't reflect reality. Thais are perhaps a bit more 'caring' of others than Chinese, but that's like saying that Thais use a bit less MSG than the Chinese. Which countries consistently go out of their way and donate to the well being of other countries - in personnel, funding and donations? It's the US and western European countries, and not just because they're comparatively rich. There's no such thing as Red Cross in Asia or 'Medicines Sans Frontier' or 'Greenpeace' or Oxfam stemming from Thailand or Asia. Indeed, I'll challenge anyone to name one such do-good organization which originates in Asia without farang backing.

[Squigy]

Many Thais r not truly nice people anymore and u can all argue the fact but after nearly 20 yrs here they have changed beyond belief maybe learning the western ways then going overboard picking the bad habits but I live with it and accept it but it is truly my opinion honest and true..

Here here! It has always since I have been here about "how much Thai's can get out of the falang Bank"smack's of rip off and I see ir more and more in the villages of Thailand. Most are too lazy to go and find a real job. Easier scamming the falang than go and work.

[jonclark]

Many Thais r not truly nice people anymore and u can all argue the fact but after nearly 20 yrs here they have changed beyond belief maybe learning the western ways then going overboard picking the bad habits but I live with it and accept it but it is truly my opinion honest and true..

Here here! It has always since I have been here about "how much Thai's can get out of the falang Bank"smack's of rip off and I see ir more and more in the villages of Thailand. Most are too lazy to go and find a real job. Easier scamming the falang than go and work.

Can see the direction this thread is going in. But alas one can only nod in agreement with many of the statements. However maybe the concept of lazy is a western one. I think being 'lazy' is all part of the wider culture / excuse (you choose) of 'sanook'

[KKvampire]

a uniquely caring Thai society....very funny ..nobody gives a dam_n here about anybody else unless it's family or friends.

Any disaster here is mostly seen as an opportunity to make a profit by those in the position to exploit the situation.

Where are all the super-rich Thais donating I wonder ??? - Oh yes - they are making money by supplying the relieve goods bought for cash donated by the average Somchai.

and regarding the flooding - Whats new?

I read a book called "Profit and Loss" published in the 1970's about a Hamburg,Germany based tropical wood trader in the 60's - apart from the "influential" people and corruption involved in the destruction of the Thai forests it deals with the yearly flooding of Bangkok during the rainy season and how the influential and rich made sure certain areas of Bangkok never flooded because the water was diverted into areas away from the "important, rich and influential" people.

This was in the 1960's - 50+ years have passed and nothing has changed!

.

I have to agree. It sounds sweet to say the phrase "a uniquely caring Thai society" but it doesn't reflect reality. Thais are perhaps a bit more 'caring' of others than Chinese, but that's like saying that Thais use a bit less MSG than the Chinese. Which countries consistently go out of their way and donate to the well being of other countries - in personnel, funding and donations? It's the US and western European countries, and not just because they're comparatively rich. There's no such thing as Red Cross in Asia or 'Medicines Sans Frontier' or 'Greenpeace' or Oxfam stemming from Thailand or Asia. Indeed, I'll challenge anyone to name one such do-good organization which originates in Asia without farang backing.

I can think of a few "unique" descriptions of Thailand , "Caring" is certainly not one of them

[DocN]

Another of these articles by guys, who are living a dream that has long, long gone. Reminds me of 3 girls on Songkhran, harming the picture of Thailand in the world. Wake up and then grow up, please!

[JohnBliss]

But in Thailand, the other thing you're expected to lie about is your love of Thailand, Thai culture, Thai food, and anything else Thai.

Let me just go slightly off topic and say that I find most Thai food sickeningly sweet these days. Thais don't seem to mind spooning heapfuls of sugar on an already sweet dish of pad thai. I just find it disgusting and order now 'mai sai naamtaan' (without sugar).

And you're right, it seems mandatory for everyone to love Thailand. In the LOS love and respect aren't earned, they're enforced.

[Lifer]

a uniquely caring Thai society....very funny ..nobody gives a dam_n here about anybody else unless it's family or friends.

Any disaster here is mostly seen as an opportunity to make a profit by those in the position to exploit the situation.

Where are all the super-rich Thais donating I wonder ??? - Oh yes - they are making money by supplying the relieve goods bought for cash donated by the average Somchai.

and regarding the flooding - Whats new?

I read a book called "Profit and Loss" published in the 1970's about a Hamburg,Germany based tropical wood trader in the 60's - apart from the "influential" people and corruption involved in the destruction of the Thai forests it deals with the yearly flooding of Bangkok during the rainy season and how the influential and rich made sure certain areas of Bangkok never flooded because the water was diverted into areas away from the "important, rich and influential" people.

This was in the 1960's - 50+ years have passed and nothing has changed!

I agree for the most part. Where I disagree is that I have found the rural villager truely care for their neighbhors and work together to help one another. Having been married to my wife for many years now, I have learned quite a bit about village life. One reason is that for years and years they have lived together and do not move much. Also most in a village are related to one another. In Chiangmai not many Thais give a dam_n about each other. I've seen garbage tossed over on someone's property when no one is looking. I've seen blue refuge trucks back up on public property or personal property and unload their shit from the truck, all along looking to see who is coming along that might see them.

City Thais are very different from the hard working farmers and village people. The city people are far more interested in earning money and buying material things using the poor Thais to do the dirty work. Not much has changed in my opinion, but can only go back to the 70's. I'm sure many will come out with long winded contradictions, but who really cares. Everyone is entitled to express their thoughts without ridicule.

[connda]

I've posted some criticism regarding government and bureaucratic (and corporate) planning and response to the flood.

Today I offer some praise.

After weeks of dealing with the floods, one of the things that I'm seeing is efficiencies building in the relief efforts. There does seem to be a synergy building between all people who are assisting with the relief efforts: volunteers, corporate donors, government workers, and the military.

A lot of what I'm seeing now on TV is less about individual entities trying to get the best "photo opportunity" to show the world their "generosity". What I'm seeing more of is a united, group effort to assist those in need. Is it perfect? Probably not. But let's do a comparison:

In the US, Hurrican Katrina devastated low, lying areas in New Oleans. The New Orleans area shares some commonalities with Bangkok: it's a low-lying area, near the mouth of a major river that empties into a Gulf. The relief efforts for Hurricane Katrina we're abysmal. Instead of focusing on assisting people in distress, a state of emergency was called and then groups of armed police systematically went door to door is flooded neighborhoods, broke into people's homes, confiscated legally owned weapons (and who knows what else), and then left. It wasn't about bringing food, water, and medical assistance to flood victims -- it was about the government exerting control. The assistance effort in New Orleans was a national embarrassment.

On the other hand, what I'm seeing in Bangkok, in comparison, is organized and relatively efficient given the extent of the flooding and the huge numbers of people affected. Kudos to the Army official who understood that declaring a "state of emergency" would be counter-productive. Instead, people are making the best of a bad situation that best they can. The outpouring of people helping people is admirable. And it's about 110% better than what I saw in New Orleans during the Katrina flooding.

So Thailand -- good job!

[Kananga]

And this notion that inner Bangkok is populated by the rich only is getting old.

You've obviously never been to Klong Toei, beautiful place, swimming pools, models waltzing around in bikinis, mercs and BMW in each and every drive way, impeccably manicured gardens. A very rich and salubrious district.

Ahh, you've been to Emporium then.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Kananga

[jonclark]

And this notion that inner Bangkok is populated by the rich only is getting old.

You've obviously never been to Klong Toei, beautiful place, swimming pools, models waltzing around in bikinis, mercs and BMW in each and every drive way, impeccably manicured gardens. A very rich and salubrious district.

Ahh, you've been to Emporium then.

No the market behind it !

[Kananga]

And this notion that inner Bangkok is populated by the rich only is getting old.

You've obviously never been to Klong Toei, beautiful place, swimming pools, models waltzing around in bikinis, mercs and BMW in each and every drive way, impeccably manicured gardens. A very rich and salubrious district.

Ahh, you've been to Emporium then.

No the market behind it !

You should go to Emporium. Beautiful place, swimming pools, models waltzing around in bikinis, mercs and BMW in each and every drive way, impeccably manicured gardens (well park). One would hate for it to be flooded. Although I would imagine there would be good looting opportunities.

[SOTIRIOS]

.....the present government garnered the common peoples' vote.....

.....this is the government's way of:

-thanking them

-making sure they won't demand that the government be held to task on their empty campaign promises

As for Bangkok.....

that will be the last straw as, they have the clout, still, to change things....as we saw on a previous occasion...hopefully

[Awohalitsiktoli]

a uniquely caring Thai society....very funny ..nobody gives a dam_n here about anybody else unless it's family or friends.

Any disaster here is mostly seen as an opportunity to make a profit by those in the position to exploit the situation.

Where are all the super-rich Thais donating I wonder ??? - Oh yes - they are making money by supplying the relieve goods bought for cash donated by the average Somchai.

and regarding the flooding - Whats new?

I read a book called "Profit and Loss" published in the 1970's about a Hamburg,Germany based tropical wood trader in the 60's - apart from the "influential" people and corruption involved in the destruction of the Thai forests it deals with the yearly flooding of Bangkok during the rainy season and how the influential and rich made sure certain areas of Bangkok never flooded because the water was diverted into areas away from the "important, rich and influential" people.

This was in the 1960's - 50+ years have passed and nothing has changed!

I agree for the most part. Where I disagree is that I have found the rural villager truely care for their neighbhors and work together to help one another. Having been married to my wife for many years now, I have learned quite a bit about village life. One reason is that for years and years they have lived together and do not move much. Also most in a village are related to one another. In Chiangmai not many Thais give a dam_n about each other. I've seen garbage tossed over on someone's property when no one is looking. I've seen blue refuge trucks back up on public property or personal property and unload their shit from the truck, all along looking to see who is coming along that might see them.

City Thais are very different from the hard working farmers and village people. The city people are far more interested in earning money and buying material things using the poor Thais to do the dirty work. Not much has changed in my opinion, but can only go back to the 70's. I'm sure many will come out with long winded contradictions, but who really cares. Everyone is entitled to express their thoughts without ridicule.

I have never seen "truly caring" here in the big cities or rural Thailand on any large scale. Thailand, in contrast to say, Japan, is a "me, me, me" society. We are seeing that now with the hoarding of food and water. I feel like we are glimpsing the future.

[fire and ice]

There's no such thing as Red Cross in Asia or 'Medicines Sans Frontier' or 'Greenpeace' or Oxfam stemming from Thailand or Asia. Indeed, I'll challenge anyone to name one such do-good organization which originates in Asia without farang backing.

Greenpeace should not be in this list. Greenpeace is a self-righteous organisation purely in existence for the benefit of their own egos, full of people with "father issues". It does little of any benefit apart from distort the truth. They are totally numerically illiterate. The true aim of Greenpeace is to "make them wrong", not to help society. They will attack ANY progress and defend any nonsensical alternative no matter how absurd or impractical. Whist they sometimes get it right (out of pure statistical chance), they cloud the vast majority of issues with absurd negativity with little or no basis - the truth behind it being they just want to make "someone" wrong even when there is no basis for it. Nuclear power is a classic example - the best & cleanest power we have, but given bad press by these a**holes.

[hanuman2543]

"People have been selfishly hoarding masses of bottled drinking water and food, while cars are double- or even triple-parked on elevated roads with no regard to how it's affecting traffic. Then there is the constant bickering between the ruling Pheu Thai Party and opposition Democrats as both sides try to make the most out of this disaster, not to mention those who are so busy watching this political soap opera that they have no time to help. Adding to the spectacle are the movie stars and television hosts who see the floods as a chance to promote themselves."fairytale

Was it ever different? The only thing Thai people are interested in is themselves, themselves and themselves. If you do not walk around blind here you can see it every day everywhere in this country. The united, unique and caring society is a fairytale. Screw everybody for your own benefit, that is the motto of the vast majority here.

[Kananga]

Nuclear power is a classic example - the best & cleanest power we have, but given bad press by these a**holes.

and Earthquakes...

[Wuffy]

Nuclear power is a classic example - the best & cleanest power we have, but given bad press by these a**holes.

and Earthquakes...

Except it got hit by an earthquake it wasn't rated for, smashed by a tsunami... and still didn't meltdown.

The only difficulty right now is an energy shortage because the Sheer amount of power coming from a nuclear plant is now missing and would take MANY alternative sources to even fill that gap and using anythig but renewable power to fill that gap is more damadging to the environment then anything that leaked out of that plant.

[ianf]

"People have been selfishly hoarding masses of bottled drinking water and food, while cars are double- or even triple-parked on elevated roads with no regard to how it's affecting traffic. Then there is the constant bickering between the ruling Pheu Thai Party and opposition Democrats as both sides try to make the most out of this disaster, not to mention those who are so busy watching this political soap opera that they have no time to help. Adding to the spectacle are the movie stars and television hosts who see the floods as a chance to promote themselves."fairytale

Was it ever different? The only thing Thai people are interested in is themselves, themselves and themselves. If you do not walk around blind here you can see it every day everywhere in this country. The united, unique and caring society is a fairytale. Screw everybody for your own benefit, that is the motto of the vast majority here.

My view on Thai people is that they are greedy and selfish, well that is to say it is a generalised opinion and probably does not apply to everyone.

I was married to a Thai woman who had some academic achievements. I married her, not because she was the best ;looking woman in the bunch, but because she appeared to be intelligent and 'sorted'. It turned out that she was a liar and thief and a very clever manipulator. While with me she was seeing a boyfriend elsewhere and using my money to buy him gifts, such as a watch and an i-phone. She was always on about the dishonesty of bar girls and Esarn girls, but in fact she was worse than them. Addicted to shopping she swamped herself with brand names and ended up with so many clothes it was obscene. At the end she left me because she "wanted to be independent". But this was part of a manipulative lie. Pretending to want me to be her best friend and someone I could always rely on, she coaxed some cash out of me. Got as much as she thought she could get and then turned against me overnight in an attempt to extract a few more million. Yes, Wachiraporn is typical of the lying cheating and manipulative Thai person. They all pretend to be good buddhists sticking to the precepts ..... but hey! Look at the whisky they drink, the greed, the selfishness, the lies and the theft as well as the cheating on their wives and husbands. So come to Chiang Mai and see this ex wife of mine. Absolutely diabolical and unbelievable. The caring society? Yeah well........

[DocN]

There's no such thing as Red Cross in Asia or 'Medicines Sans Frontier' or 'Greenpeace' or Oxfam stemming from Thailand or Asia. Indeed, I'll challenge anyone to name one such do-good organization which originates in Asia without farang backing.

Greenpeace should not be in this list. Greenpeace is a self-righteous organisation purely in existence for the benefit of their own egos, full of people with "father issues". It does little of any benefit apart from distort the truth. They are totally numerically illiterate. The true aim of Greenpeace is to "make them wrong", not to help society. They will attack ANY progress and defend any nonsensical alternative no matter how absurd or impractical. Whist they sometimes get it right (out of pure statistical chance), they cloud the vast majority of issues with absurd negativity with little or no basis - the truth behind it being they just want to make "someone" wrong even when there is no basis for it. Nuclear power is a classic example - the best & cleanest power we have, but given bad press by these a**holes.

Another one who should please put the crackpipe down. Greenpeace has been (if nothing else) helped to create awareness for many things, concerning the environment. Their actions may be populistic, but that's exactly what you need in a world of media-overkill, if you want to get attention.

And now, go and get a shark-fin - soup!