Bangkok Ignored Warnings

[kutjebu]

I know this 80 year old thai lady who bought vacant land in bangkok a little over 50 years ago in the china town area. She bought it because it was cheap and thought it might be unusable because it was a wet marsh. Sure enough some one came along and wanted to lease it and build on it, she still owns that land today and has made a fortune on it.

Over the decades that i have lived here in thailand i have seen wet marsh built on with shop houses, hotels and apartments time and time again. Now everyone wants to blame someone else when the water now has no where else to go. Did the government build these structures? Answer: No.......When you rob mother nature she will bite you in the ass later! No man made preventive systems is 100% nature proof.

I think i even remember Thaksin saying a second bangkok should be build years ago because of the sinking.

I think i even remember Thaksin saying a second bangkok should be build years ago because of the sinking.

That's right,but then call you just the best PM Thailand ever had.

[kutjebu]

What about Amsterdam.It's built 20 ft below sealevel.

[animatic]

"This sinking mega-city's eight million people are paying the price of ignoring warnings"

In otherwords blame 8 million people for these floods; we should have forseen the dangers. I see. Same like blame the whole world when aliens invade this planet as we ignored all the signs especially from those from making sci fi B pics.

Hmm................

That's not what the quote says.

He says the leaders have ignored it for years,

and NOW the 8 million people pay for

their leaders past and presents mistakes,

[elcent]

What about Amsterdam.It's built 20 ft below sealevel.

the lawyer? Maybe you're right ...

Joke aside. The Netherland North-sea Protection wall is considered as one of the seven modern world wonders in conjunction with taming of rivers and building dams effectively.

[Bagwan]

I know this 80 year old thai lady who bought vacant land in bangkok a little over 50 years ago in the china town area. She bought it because it was cheap and thought it might be unusable because it was a wet marsh. Sure enough some one came along and wanted to lease it and build on it, she still owns that land today and has made a fortune on it.

Over the decades that i have lived here in thailand i have seen wet marsh built on with shop houses, hotels and apartments time and time again. Now everyone wants to blame someone else when the water now has no where else to go. Did the government build these structures? Answer: No.......When you rob mother nature she will bite you in the ass later! No man made preventive systems is 100% nature proof.

I think i even remember Thaksin saying a second bangkok should be build years ago because of the sinking.

Was that around the same time that he opted to build the new airport smack dab in the middle of the flood runoff area?

Normally I defend the guy, against all the hard-core conspiracy types anyway. But that decision was one where the government is guilty of exacerbating the flood problems.

Construction was started in January 2002 when Thaksin was running the country. He knew then it was going to be built on a swamp and was fully aware of defects in the runway and taxiways.

[marinediscoking]

What about Amsterdam.It's built 20 ft below sealevel.

the lawyer? Maybe you're right ...

Joke aside. The Netherland North-sea Protection wall is considered as one of the seven modern world wonders in conjunction with taming of rivers and building dams effectively.

The Dutch were not able to control the Rhine river floods in 1995.

Edited November 3, 2011 by marinediscoking

[ArnoJaco]

The price of living near the water (and building below sea level) is occasional flooding. Just ask New Orleans. The price of living on the Pacific rim is an occasional, tragic, earthquake and tsunami. Just ask Japan. The price of living in the Midwest USA is an occasional tornado. Just ask Oklahoma. The price of living in the desert is an occasional sandstorm.

Bangkok was poorly prepared. So was Japan. So was New Orleans and on and on. Life is full of risks, compromise and trade-offs. Just like buying insurance, you can go broke preparing for every possible disaster, then get hit by a freak tsunami or have a couple of jets crash into your high rises. I don't think Bangkok "ignored" the warnings. I think they heard them, considered them, then bet the other way. Maybe they won the bet maybe they lost, but not 1/100 the amount that Wall Street geniuses did when they knew the risks and bet the other way.

Nicely put...

[elcent]

veen_NT (00.45am) Floodwater is seen in front of the Chao Phaya Park Hotel on Ratchadapisek Road. #ch7

[hedonist44]

Utter rubbish.. Bangkok flooding did not start until just over 1 week ago. Tells you already it's not worth reading the rest.Garbage journalism.

Another statement from someone who has not a clue, and certainly not worth correcting.

[waza]

Digging big holes to put the water in is good water management. This method is used in cities all over the world. Store the water in a hole and then pump out later. It's a solution that works well.

Tokyo has a huge underground storage for floods. Ask there. I saw some images the other day, really impressive.

Yuh. Has huge silos tunnels and 78 high-powered pumps good for up to 200 tons/sec according to this Paradoxoff Planet article . Run by me again what the recent drainage tunnel improvements were done for Bangkok?

BMA goes underground: New drainage system will stretch 50km BKk Post12/11/2010

City Hall is planning to build four more giant underground tunnels to complete its ambitious and long-term flood prevention plan for Bangkok. The added tunnels would double the efficiency of the city's water drainage system, Bangkok Governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra said yesterday.

[Gonsalviz]

The price of living near the water (and building below sea level) is occasional flooding. Just ask New Orleans. The price of living on the Pacific rim is an occasional, tragic, earthquake and tsunami. Just ask Japan. The price of living in the Midwest USA is an occasional tornado. Just ask Oklahoma. The price of living in the desert is an occasional sandstorm.

Bangkok was poorly prepared. So was Japan. So was New Orleans and on and on. Life is full of risks, compromise and trade-offs. Just like buying insurance, you can go broke preparing for every possible disaster, then get hit by a freak tsunami or have a couple of jets crash into your high rises. I don't think Bangkok "ignored" the warnings. I think they heard them, considered them, then bet the other way. Maybe they won the bet maybe they lost, but not 1/100 the amount that Wall Street geniuses did when they knew the risks and bet the other way.

Oklahoma is not one of the midwestern states. It is the one of the plain states. You forget one thing. Some people do not have the luxury of choosing where they live. In each place that you mentioned, It is up to the government to alarm, protect, and come to the aid of their residents. Some governments did....some did not.

Are you implying that there are no tornadoes in OK? Warnings or not floods, hurricanes, earthquakes and tornadoes do huge damage. People that cannot swim do not do well in floods. There was warning.

[Gonsalviz]

Digging big holes to put the water in is good water management. This method is used in cities all over the world. Store the water in a hole and then pump out later. It's a solution that works well.

Tokyo has a huge underground storage for floods. Ask there. I saw some images the other day, really impressive.

Yuh. Has huge silos tunnels and 78 high-powered pumps good for up to 200 tons/sec according to this Paradoxoff Planet article . Run by me again what the recent drainage tunnel improvements were done for Bangkok?

BMA goes underground: New drainage system will stretch 50km BKk Post12/11/2010

City Hall is planning to build four more giant underground tunnels to complete its ambitious and long-term flood prevention plan for Bangkok. The added tunnels would double the efficiency of the city's water drainage system, Bangkok Governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra said yesterday.

What size hole do you propose to hold all this water?

[kimamey]

Utter rubbish.. Bangkok flooding did not start until just over 1 week ago. Tells you already it's not worth reading the rest.Garbage journalism.

If I'm reading you post correctly then it may be garbage not the journalism.

The first paragraph says "warnings over many years" and it clearly says further on that warnings about filling in khlongs were ignored in the 1970s.

Maybe it is worth reading the rest.

[Buchholz]

I think i even remember Thaksin saying a second bangkok should be build years ago because of the sinking.

His more recent version (July 23, 2011):

Pheu Thai Bangkok land reclamation project hits snags; ecosystem damage feared

Villagers in Samut Sakhon coastal province have threatened to hold a mass demonstration if the Pheu Thai-led government goes ahead with a controversial land reclamation proposal in the Gulf of Thailand. The 300,000-rai land reclamation project would create a new city from mangroves and land mass from the sea around three provinces: Bangkok, Samut Prakan and Samut Sakhon.

A week after the election, Pheu Thai's de facto leader Thaksin Shinawatra insisted the party would execute its election pledges, including the land reclamation project. "We will build a dam 10 kilometres out [from the shoreline]," said Thaksin. "Behind the dam, land will be reclaimed to create new land. This will form the base of a new city. If we reclaim 300,000 rai, 200,000 will be for public use and the remainder sold."

Continues:

http://www.thailand-construction.com/news/903--construction-news/871-pheu-thai-bangkok-land-reclamation-project-hits-snags-ecosystem-damage-feared-.html

Edited November 3, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Im rather surpised the "boat engine guy" hasnt suggested digging a big hole to put all the water in, of course we could confuse him and offer to dig half a hole

Digging big holes to put the water in is good water management. This method is used in cities all over the world. Store the water in a hole and then pump out later. It's a solution that works well.

Didn't you know there are already a lot of A.S.S. Holes in and around the city, some are even being used to control the flooding.

(A.S.S = Aquifer Storage System)

A.S.S. holes....

.

[MaxYakov]

Digging big holes to put the water in is good water management. This method is used in cities all over the world. Store the water in a hole and then pump out later. It's a solution that works well.

Yuh. Has huge silos tunnels and 78 high-powered pumps good for up to 200 tons/sec according to this Paradoxoff Planet article . Run by me again what the recent drainage tunnel improvements were done for Bangkok?

BMA goes underground: New drainage system will stretch 50km BKk Post12/11/2010

City Hall is planning to build four more giant underground tunnels to complete its ambitious and long-term flood prevention plan for Bangkok. The added tunnels would double the efficiency of the city's water drainage system, Bangkok Governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra said yesterday.

Thanks, waza - knew I'd seen that around recently. Fairly paltry in comparison to the Tokyo system, I'd say. I believe the Bangkok plan was to use (rather indirectly) the Mariana Trench (Tides, Chao Phraya, The Chin, and that-other-river allowing).

Actually, I replied mainly to fix the broken quote nesting and missing IDs/Timestamps, then I got thinking about Tokyo's alleged 78 pumps with their 200,000 tons/sec capability, Then it struck me. If these are metric tons (1 cubic meter), then they can pump at roughly 40 times the rate of the Chao Phraya (4,800 cubic meters/sec)! If this is correct, then they must be planning on using the Mariana Trench as well, but not so indirectly. I believe their underground storage capacity was around only 620,000 cubic meters, but their system may have several.

This ANMC Best Practices document indicates one reservoir of only 540,000 cubic meters.

Edited November 3, 2011 by MaxYakov

[travelmann]

Im rather surpised the "boat engine guy" hasnt suggested digging a big hole to put all the water in, of course we could confuse him and offer to dig half a hole

Digging big holes to put the water in is good water management. This method is used in cities all over the world. Store the water in a hole and then pump out later. It's a solution that works well.

I think your missing the joke here Mr serious

[MaxYakov]

Im rather surpised the "boat engine guy" hasnt suggested digging a big hole to put all the water in, of course we could confuse him and offer to dig half a hole

Digging big holes to put the water in is good water management. This method is used in cities all over the world. Store the water in a hole and then pump out later. It's a solution that works well.

I think your missing the joke here Mr serious

No joke! The Minister of S & T has contracted with the CERN LHC folks to deploy a black hole. There may be 'unintended consequences', however.

Edited November 3, 2011 by MaxYakov

[LivinLOS]

Over the decades that i have lived here in thailand i have seen wet marsh built on with shop houses, hotels and apartments time and time again. Now everyone wants to blame someone else when the water now has no where else to go. Did the government build these structures? Answer: No.......When you rob mother nature she will bite you in the ass later! No man made preventive systems is 100% nature proof.

I spent a while land hunting up north.. And was shown 100's of plots which were plain paddy or wetlands during wet season. The general view being, simply 'fill' the land and raise yourself above it.. Which is fine until the neighbor does the same. Plot after plot I looked at came with this concern and its just not a concern so many locals seemed to view as one.

ultimately I was glad to find garden land in a more hilly area (not only for the water but the bugs that come with rice land) but the mindset to this issue, in an area that commonly floods, seemed very short sighted to me.

[Gippy]

1320321736[/url]' post='4819308']

Utter rubbish.. Bangkok flooding did not start until just over 1 week ago. Tells you already it's not worth reading the rest.Garbage journalism.

My house in Bangkok flooded 15 days ago.

[jacnl2000]

What about Amsterdam.It's built 20 ft below sealevel.

the lawyer? Maybe you're right ...

Joke aside. The Netherland North-sea Protection wall is considered as one of the seven modern world wonders in conjunction with taming of rivers and building dams effectively.

The Dutch were not able to control the Rhine river floods in 1995.

Very true indeed.

This self proclaimed man made Dutch wonder is impressive and worth a visit but its functionality is rather limited.

The Netherlands is certainly not far future waterproof. The Dutch are totally unprepared for capturing more heavy rains (> 1 % of Thai heavy rains in the north of Thailand) and/or receiving them indirectly via their rivers in the south. The Dutch Royal Prince better not sell his villa yet because his wonderful daughter might be running an aquarium by the time she's becoming queen.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

What about Amsterdam.It's built 20 ft below sealevel.

the lawyer? Maybe you're right ...

Joke aside. The Netherland North-sea Protection wall is considered as one of the seven modern world wonders in conjunction with taming of rivers and building dams effectively.

The Dutch were not able to control the Rhine river floods in 1995.

Very true indeed.

This self proclaimed man made Dutch wonder is impressive and worth a visit but its functionality is rather limited.

The Netherlands is certainly not far future waterproof. The Dutch are totally unprepared for capturing more heavy rains (> 1 % of Thai heavy rains in the north of Thailand) and/or receiving them indirectly via their rivers in the south. The Dutch Royal Prince better not sell his villa yet because his wonderful daughter might be running an aquarium by the time she's becoming queen.

Finally a major source of the problem is at least identified: climate change.