Floodwater Spreading Into Inner Bangkok

[harryfrompattaya]

To help Bangkok from floods.

It might be not be popular but taxes must increased at least 500 per cent on beer and tobacco.

And maybe even a Farang tax of at least 80,000 baht a year. The ones with Hi So wives should at 200,000

We Farangs are living here we should our fair share.

All I read here is free advice and we known what that is worth.

Edited November 7, 2011 by harryfrompattaya

[anon8]

This is off topic, and I apologize..

but PLEASE, can we stop quoting the PMs photo!

[Thai at Heart]

To help Bangkok from floods.

It might be not be popular but taxes must increased at least 500 per cent on beer and tobacco.

And maybe even a Farang tax of at least 80,000 baht a year. The ones with Hi So wives should at 200,000

We Farangs are living here we should our fair share.

All I read here is free advice and we known what that is worth.

Harry, I hope this is tongue in cheek. Many pay a hell of a lot more than that, me included already, and to claim it represents anything close to value for money would be a laugh.

[HardenedSoul]

True, I was simply trying to point out that a forum is for discussion and therefore we are not psychopathic to want to discuss the issues that surround the flooding, Humanitarian and Political.

But if it's the same old tripe as what's been said a million times on a million threads, it becomes mind-numbingly boring. The overwhelming majority of commentators on here are foreigners with, mercifully, no vote and no means of influencing the political process in this country. The Thais have chosen to eschew the expertise of those in countries that have licked this problem and that is their right.

I like it here but, if push comes to shove and it all goes Pete Tong, fuc_k it . . . I'm on a plane. There's a reasonable choice of countries that offer a similar climate, comparable or cheaper costs of living and attractive gusset.

[tingtongfarang]

This is off topic, and I apologize..

but PLEASE, can we stop quoting the PMs photo!

[ResX]

The fact is Bangkok will have to be moved.

I totally agree with that but what are the chances this will happen in a rational, planned way? People say this current crisis is a 50 year event. That will prove to be totally wrong given current global climate PLUS the mostly man made problems in Thailand. More like 5 year event or less in the current reality.

The only movement Bangkok will be doing is in the vertical.

There is another good alternative. Just regulate that flood waters efficiently. I promise you it won't be as difficult as you want to believe, if you can make is as a national aspiration. By now everybody knows how damaging uncontrolled floods flows could do to Thailand. The floods can destroy life, properties, plantations, farms, life stocks and the country as a whole.

To me Chao Phraya is a gift to Thailand. Having annual average freshwater of 70billion cubic meter from almost a single main river, Thais have to know how to make full use of it. Be prepared to deal with intense floods that can be as high as 20-25billion cubic meter that can fall in 7-14 days. The flood of this intensity could strike at least once in 200 year. Put a few dams to match the the figure. Regulate dams operations religiously every month without miss as if it will strike that year. Don't compromise with flood control requirement although it has a great tendency to to do so.

[Thai at Heart]

The fact is Bangkok will have to be moved.

I totally agree with that but what are the chances this will happen in a rational, planned way? People say this current crisis is a 50 year event. That will prove to be totally wrong given current global climate PLUS the mostly man made problems in Thailand. More like 5 year event or less in the current reality.

The only movement Bangkok will be doing is in the vertical.

There is another good alternative. Just regulate that flood waters efficiently. I promise you it won't be as difficult as you want to believe, if you can make is as a national aspiration. By now everybody knows how damaging uncontrolled floods flows could do to Thailand. The floods can destroy life, properties, plantations, farms, life stocks and the country as a whole.

To me Chao Phraya is a gift to Thailand. Having annual average freshwater of 70billion cubic meter from almost a single main river, Thais have to know how to make full use of it. Be prepared to deal with intense floods that can be as high as 20-25billion cubic meter that can fall in 7-14 days. The flood of this intensity could strike at least once in 200 year. Put a few dams to match the the figure. Regulate dams operations religiously every month without miss as if it will strike that year. Don't compromise with flood control requirement although it has a great tendency to to do so.

Fortunately I won't be around for the next 200 years to see if any plan they come up with is successful. :jap:

This will happen again, again, and again......

[HardenedSoul]

And maybe even a Farang tax of at least 80,000 baht a year. The ones with Hi So wives should at 200,000

We Farangs are living here we should our fair share.

All I read here is free advice and we known what that is worth.

That's a ridiculous suggestion. The pros of living here outweigh the cons for me for sure but paying tax when I've got no rights in this country would tip the balance in an instant. I wouldn't give 'em a shekel until such time as I could buy the land under a house without resorting to the tomfoolery of a 49/51% split in a limited company with a Thai national or import my 21 yr old car without getting hosed by customs asking for 3 million baht.

Nah, nah, nah; you need to stop smoking whatever it is that inspired that one, son

Edited November 7, 2011 by HardenedSoul

[eastlight]

Molle said that in the long term, Bangkok would eventually be under water. "The only question is when."

And the answer might be : this week..! ;-)

Well, I've just come back to Pattaya having visited Bangkok, the inner area and the airport, and quite frankly I saw no sign of flooding whatsoever. Everything was normal.

[TimJohnson]

... this is as watching a train wreck, in slow motion ... and billions of m3 of water still to pass ... we evacuated, then returned in the middle of last week.

... now believing only what we see and but half of what we hear, we are preparing to re-evacuate.

... our lives and businesses are suspended in a vacuum of freakish incompetence ... what could possibly sabotage the resources available in this modern age of technology and communication?

... this is all so ... absurd.

I am in the same situation: re-evacuate. The kind of information is freacky, unreliable and made by incompetents! When will we finally know the real situation? Is there anyone at FROC competent enough to tell the truth to the people? It is reaaly absurd...

I am in the same situation: re-evacuated for the 2nd time... the University my freinds work at is in the lowest lying area of BKK and floods regularly (ABAC). They are forcing all the teachers and staff to remain until the last possible moment. So much money and the students education at stake, I can't blame them for waiting until the last minute to evacuate... but its difficult for people's lives. I'm here in dry Phnom Penh and am securing residence for more than one professor.

Tim

[Scorpio1949]

Give it to the Dutch , they know what to do , their country has big surfaces UNDER sea level , great water managing experts.

Good idea. We are famous for our water management! But that also takes time. And now that is something Bangkok doesnt have. The longer this take the more damage this gives. We see the water as a problem now, but what problems will you see when the water is gone. Houses that are so damaged that they should be rebuild. I feel sorry for all the people who will go back home when the water is gone and they will face all the things they lost.

I think it's now time to put the hands together for Yellow and Red to become Orange, to show they love Thailand and that they are Real Thai persons. Yellow is now already shouting that the New Goverment is doing so much wrong, but face it, all problems are not from the last 3 or 4 months. Problems started because of lack of service or wrong constructions, or no construction at all. The last years the Goverment did nothing to solve this kind of problems. And yes Thaksin is now the leader, but she had this as a goodbye present from the incompetent goverment who has been in power for the last years.

In my area there is a budget for service, milions of baths going through hands. I guess the money runs like water, but only to the wrong places.

by "give it to the Dutch " i mean the long term solution for future water handling , i know your DeltaPlan took years , (also started after an major flooding Holland expierianced before ) but is an amazing concept as i saw those gigantic doors closing and opening ...... amazing

PS ; but the other water idea to put it in bottles, and label it Heineken is only a joke

To get right info on this please read http://en.wikipedia....iki/Delta_Works fact is that Amsterdam is also build on swampy and the Dutch already for I think hundreds of years ( the building of the Palace in the center started in 1665 in that way and this was not the first building...... ) build the city on a underground of wooden pillars driven into the swamp.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Scorpio1949

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted.

[FarangBuddha]

It might be not be popular but taxes must increased at least 500 per cent on beer and tobacco.

And maybe even a Farang tax of at least 80,000 baht a year. The ones with Hi So wives should at 200,000

We Farangs are living here we should our fair share.

Unt

If they gave qualified expatriates 5-year renewable residency permits maybe...but until something like that comes around I say no way.

[huck]

It might be not be popular but taxes must increased at least 500 per cent on beer and tobacco.

And maybe even a Farang tax of at least 80,000 baht a year. The ones with Hi So wives should at 200,000

We Farangs are living here we should our fair share.

Unt

If they gave qualified expatriates 5-year renewable residency permits maybe...but until something like that comes around I say no way.

I believe Thailand honors international agreements regarding double taxation.

If you pay tax in your home country then you are already helping with climate change taxation.

To add a value added tax is not feasable.

What they could do is let foreigners own property and then start taxing property at proper rates.

[techboy]

"Water began covering the road surface at the BTS Skytrain Kamphaeng Phet station...."

There is only one thing wrong with this statement. The BTS doesn't have a Kamphaeng Phet station, they have a Mo Chit station. It is the MRT that has a Kamphaeng Phet station.

I guess it isn't surprising that the politicians don't know the difference since their chauffeured autos aren't allow on either.

A profound observation mey fellow. Especially considering that the vast discrepancy between the stations locations would be difficult to make with a 10Baht slingshot.!!!

[MaxYakov]

"Water began covering the road surface at the BTS Skytrain Kamphaeng Phet station...."

There is only one thing wrong with this statement. The BTS doesn't have a Kamphaeng Phet station, they have a Mo Chit station. It is the MRT that has a Kamphaeng Phet station.

I guess it isn't surprising that the politicians don't know the difference since their chauffeured autos aren't allow on either.

A profound observation mey fellow. Especially considering that the vast discrepancy between the stations locations would be difficult to make with a 10Baht slingshot.!!!

Why don't you buy one of those slingshots and keep yourself fully occupied for a couple weeks, Tech Boy? On second thought, maybe that's not such a good idea. Get some very small rubber bands.

Edited November 7, 2011 by MaxYakov

[PlanetX]

The perceived incompetence and misinformation isnt only a Thai thing.

The Japanese went through this nightmare during the nuclear meltdown.

The evacuations, re-evacuations, lies, cover-ups, failed planning, cutting of corners, diverting of funds, etc etc etc

Same script

The leaders can play the inept card all they want and we all better hope that is the case because this agenda of pushing 'global warming' is being maximized with every mismanagement of these natural disasters

The UN has plenty of policies/ initiatives on draft, they have the carbon taxes ready -- just dont forget these disasters were COMPLETELY MISMANAGED leading to these catastrophic results. They could have been prevented but I am sure the focus moving forward will only be about man made global warming and how to tax the poor.

[fred110]

The Thai Government better start to pump huge amounts of money into Pattaya for a Sky Train, an underground system, designated areas for government departments, Commecial parks for new Office buildings, etc... etc... because Pattaya will be the capital city when Bangkok goes "waterworld"

Doing this will be far cheaper that trying to save a doomed city. I can see Pattaya becoming more like Rio in Brazil (But not quite as nice).

Not Chiang Mai?

[anon8]

The perceived incompetence and misinformation isnt only a Thai thing.

sure, it isn't only Thai thing! But we have mastered it..

also, corruption as a way of life doesn't help

[TongueThaied]

Reminds me of that early 60's movie, "The Blob." It just comes on, slowly, inexorably. "The Blob is coming! Everybody run!" This whole thing would make a great movie -- for people that dig slow action, but a lot of hysteria. Ying Luck is actual pretty hot when she's not crying.

[Scott]

A bunch of posts have been deleted. Again this topic isn't about climate change. If you want your post to remain, stay on topic. If you know a post is off-topic, don't quote it.

[rakman]

The fact is Bangkok will have to be moved.

I totally agree with that but what are the chances this will happen in a rational, planned way? People say this current crisis is a 50 year event. That will prove to be totally wrong given current global climate PLUS the mostly man made problems in Thailand. More like 5 year event or less in the current reality.

The only movement Bangkok will be doing is in the vertical.

There is another good alternative. Just regulate that flood waters efficiently. I promise you it won't be as difficult as you want to believe, if you can make is as a national aspiration. By now everybody knows how damaging uncontrolled floods flows could do to Thailand. The floods can destroy life, properties, plantations, farms, life stocks and the country as a whole.

To me Chao Phraya is a gift to Thailand. Having annual average freshwater of 70billion cubic meter from almost a single main river, Thais have to know how to make full use of it. Be prepared to deal with intense floods that can be as high as 20-25billion cubic meter that can fall in 7-14 days. The flood of this intensity could strike at least once in 200 year. Put a few dams to match the the figure. Regulate dams operations religiously every month without miss as if it will strike that year. Don't compromise with flood control requirement although it has a great tendency to to do so.

I would like to add a method to help Bangkok from sinking (faster than ocean rise by an order of magnitude, and the oceans have fallen the last two years) would be to stop pulling water out of the aquifer. Build the infrastructure to distribute water from the north to supply the city, and pump extra clean water into the aquifer, forcing the city sinking to slow, stop and hopefully go up a bit.

[MrChangers]

The Thai Government better start to pump huge amounts of money into Pattaya for a Sky Train, an underground system, designated areas for government departments, Commecial parks for new Office buildings, etc... etc... because Pattaya will be the capital city when Bangkok goes "waterworld"

Doing this will be far cheaper that trying to save a doomed city. I can see Pattaya becoming more like Rio in Brazil (But not quite as nice).

Not Chiang Mai?

No NOT Chiang Mai as they are more stupid when it comes to spending public money than any other city I have been to in Thailand. Nice place but kill everyone with the air quality from the bloody awful transport system ..... sorngthaw's belching diesel smog. There is no breeze let alone wind in CM to move the smog

[tonglen]

We dont need to hear what will happen in 2050 or that the flood threat will quadruple or whatever else this article suggests as to FUTURE threats when the IMMEDIATE is completely unknown.

[erobando]

I believe Thailand honors international agreements regarding double taxation.

If you pay tax in your home country then you are already helping with climate change taxation.

To add a value added tax is not feasable.

What they could do is let foreigners own property and then start taxing property at proper rates.

Most of my income, for example, comes from Thailand, so I pay income tax to the Thai government from Thai sources (e.g., salary from a Thai company).

As an American, I pay the US only for income not already taxed here. I report the Thai income but it is tax exempt due to protection from double taxation as you point out.

Rather than a foreigner tax, the Thai government could raise more funds by slightly increasing tax levels on the upper middle classes and up.

For example, my tax rate is lower in Thailand than for an equivalent amount in the US even though the income puts me at in a higher percentile than in the US.

They would also need to actually enforce taxes which will be difficult people many people find creative ways to keep reported income at low levels.

The major obstacles are that... 1) the wealthy make the tax laws and won't tax themselves, and 2) are raised taxes really going to the projects for which they are intended. There is a lack of transparency.

Anyway, I don't think that funding is the major problem in flood prevention.

They could find a way to fund the projects if they wanted to. The problem is a general lack of long-term planning.

[Scott]

More off-topic posts deleted.

[Cloggie]

Give it to the Dutch , they know what to do , their country has big surfaces UNDER sea level , great water managing experts.

Do you really think they will listen to us.........

[Geekfreaklover]

you wherein the army before? take care your family like you did your buddy's don't wine just take care of the situation

Was this post made by an automatic translator from Thai ? I haven't the foggiest what it means

Allow me to translate. I'm fluent in Leo.

In a previous post (s) you claimed that you were once in the army. May I suggest, given the current flood emergency, that you take care of your family the same way that that you should have taken care of your fellow soldiers, if you were indeed, in the army - as you say. This is the time for action, not idle complaints.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Geekfreaklover

[Maestro]

I have deleted an off-topic post talking about the USA and Italy.

[JSPS]

Give it to the Dutch , they know what to do , their country has big surfaces UNDER sea level , great water managing experts.

I believe the Dutch offered to send water management experts to assist. In fact, they have made numerous offers long before this flood. I think they got the same response as the Americans got with their offer of a carrier task force.

That is that Thais will take care of their own problems and will not make a request for help or facilitate any outside that does not go through the government.