Buying A House But...

[thaiwanderer]

One other thing I forgot to mention, and I'm not sure if it has a bearing, is that according to the paperwork the house was built with a mortgage from a bank here. Isn't it a bit strange that a bank would lend money to build an illegal structure? Or was that common practice pre-1997?

Has no bearing on thee potential problems you might face.

[thaiwanderer]

If it gets resolved to your satisfaction and you go ahead with the purchase then I would suggest if you are looking to sell in the future you provide the purchaser the original Building Permit along with the new BP and an explanation of the reasons why there are 2 documents to prevent any possibility of a claim of fraud.

Fair point.

I've spoken to another lawyer who tells me that this sort of problem with the BP is quite common in Pattaya. He said that he deals on average with around 4 cases a year, and he has never had a problem getting a new BP issued. Apparently City Hall has no problem with this, it's routine here. He said that there is no under-the-table payment to officials necessary.

Then if you have all the documentation as I suggest it should be no problem for the lawyer of any future purchaser to assure him that everything is in order.

Edit: it's only fraud if you deliberately misrepresent the facts, if you declare the true age of the property you would be OK.

2 lawyers doesn't equal all lawyers / clients now or in the future.

Officials' conduct now isn't necessarily right and legal and their attitudes may change before a re-sale.

A new building permit is not a declaration of compliance its essentially a false document which they may not stand by in the future.

Fraud should obviously be avoided but being honest about the faults doesn't remove faults.

OP - I'm not saying you shouldn't buy, rather be aware of what you're buying and if wish to proceed protect youself as much possiible.

[Guderian]

OP - I'm not saying you shouldn't buy, rather be aware of what you're buying and if wish to proceed protect youself as much possiible.

Any suggestions how?

[thaiwanderer]

OP - I'm not saying you shouldn't buy, rather be aware of what you're buying and if wish to proceed protect youself as much possiible.

Any suggestions how?

Full due dilligence by your lawyer on the plot and building/s.

Owner to get the 'corrected' building permit before sale and your lawyer to get formal confirmation they are standing by it.

Negotiate a healthy discount.

Accept the legal faults aren't and cannot be entirely remedied, a knock on the door may come at any time in the future and even if it doesn't on your re-sale you may struggle for a buyer / healthy price.

[Guderian]

Full due dilligence by your lawyer on the plot and building/s. Already done.

Owner to get the 'corrected' building permit before sale and your lawyer to get formal confirmation they are standing by it. Already done.

Negotiate a healthy discount. Already had a 20% discount, but now thinking of asking for some 'extras'.

Accept the legal faults aren't and cannot be entirely remedied, a knock on the door may come at any time in the future and even if it doesn't on your re-sale you may struggle for a buyer / healthy price. This is the bit that prompted me to make the OP. If I am having doubts under the current system, then in 10 years time, when the rules may have changed or been tightened up, then future buyers will probably have even greater reservations.

[InterestedObserver]

All this heartburn over the legality of a 22 year old building permit. Is the company who is going to own the house 100% legitimate; i.e., no nominees?

[thaiwanderer]

Full due dilligence by your lawyer on the plot and building/s. Already done.

Owner to get the 'corrected' building permit before sale and your lawyer to get formal confirmation they are standing by it. Already done.

Negotiate a healthy discount. Already had a 20% discount, but now thinking of asking for some 'extras'.

Accept the legal faults aren't and cannot be entirely remedied, a knock on the door may come at any time in the future and even if it doesn't on your re-sale you may struggle for a buyer / healthy price. This is the bit that prompted me to make the OP. If I am having doubts under the current system, then in 10 years time, when the rules may have changed or been tightened up, then future buyers will probably have even greater reservations.

All to do with your comfort levels, the amount of money involved to you etc

No one here can give cast iron guarantees- and won't be making up to you any shortfall in the future if it turns out they are wrong.

Sure I'm aware of far worse legal problems but its a balance not just between this house / land and another but this versus another without such problems.

The discount should equate to how much you value the risk.

Is the BP now corrected? What exactly does it say?

[thaiwanderer]

All this heartburn over the legality of a 22 year old building permit. Is the company who is going to own the house 100% legitimate; i.e., no nominees?

There is a difference between saying there is no problem (now, for her) and being aware of the potential problems he may be taking on before making a decision.

IIRC OP is happy with the legal structure, though of course that may be an area which should raise more concern - but its not as if that hasn't had a few threads here.

[Guderian]

The company structure will be set up 100% legally in accordance with current Thai law. If that at some stage is open to attack by the authorities, then at least I will not be alone with the problem! Once the BP is sorted (which will take 2 to 4 months, I am told), the Thai tendency towards grandfathering should make it reasonably secure, although I realise that things change and there are no guarantees. My concern really is whether I will ever be able to sell it again, and nobody can tell me the answer but it seems that there is a real problem. It took me 9 months to find this place and weeks of negotiations to reach agreement, but it seems that it would be better to spend another 9 months looking for a house that has no problems than buy a nicer place that may have an in-built time bomb. Difficult, and a personal decision, I know.

[thaiwanderer]

The company structure will be set up 100% legally in accordance with current Thai law. If that at some stage is open to attack by the authorities, then at least I will not be alone with the problem! Once the BP is sorted (which will take 2 to 4 months, I am told), the Thai tendency towards grandfathering should make it reasonably secure, although I realise that things change and there are no guarantees. My concern really is whether I will ever be able to sell it again, and nobody can tell me the answer but it seems that there is a real problem. It took me 9 months to find this place and weeks of negotiations to reach agreement, but it seems that it would be better to spend another 9 months looking for a house that has no problems than buy a nicer place that may have an in-built time bomb. Difficult, and a personal decision, I know.

With the utmost respect the lines about current thai law / grandfathering etc are typical lawyer speak. To the extent the structure allows you beneficial use and control of the land it is in breach of the prohibition on foreign ownership. What is currently tolerated may well change but you don't need a countrywide crackdown to fall foul - only you and yours need to be looked at to have a problem. This has been discussed many times in this section of the forum and there is no consensus since its a very personal thing involving attitude to risk and people's own money - at least you accept there are no guarantees!

I haven't seen the property / price etc but am surprised one of the others you've looked at over 9 months that don't have the same problem aren't now far more attractive.

Good luck whichever way you go.

[Guderian]

The owner contacted me this afternoon and seems to have retreated into denial about the problem. I passed the e-mail on to my lawyer who has advised me to walk away, so that is what I have done. Thank you all for your time and input.

[mrbojangles]

The owner contacted me this afternoon and seems to have retreated into denial about the problem. I passed the e-mail on to my lawyer who has advised me to walk away, so that is what I have done. Thank you all for your time and input.

I've walked away from many houses in my time and never regretted a single one. Something better was always just around the corner, or put on the market the following month etc. Good luck with the hunt and keep us posted if something turns up.

[Guderian]

The owner contacted me this afternoon and seems to have retreated into denial about the problem. I passed the e-mail on to my lawyer who has advised me to walk away, so that is what I have done. Thank you all for your time and input.

I've walked away from many houses in my time and never regretted a single one. Something better was always just around the corner, or put on the market the following month etc. Good luck with the hunt and keep us posted if something turns up.

Thanks.

[rgs2001uk]

The owner contacted me this afternoon and seems to have retreated into denial about the problem. I passed the e-mail on to my lawyer who has advised me to walk away, so that is what I have done. Thank you all for your time and input.

I've walked away from many houses in my time and never regretted a single one. Something better was always just around the corner, or put on the market the following month etc. Good luck with the hunt and keep us posted if something turns up.

Excellent advice there Mr BJ, your sixth sense kicks in, if it doesnt feel right it probably isnt.

Two things about this thread have me asking the following questions,

Why would anyone want to buy a 22 year old property, and why would someone pay good money to buy someone elses problem?