Bangkok Doesn't Deserve Its Special Protection And Privilege

[Thaddeus]

What an idiot. That's all that is worth saying.

And he does have the sort of smug face that you wouldn't tire of punching.

[jayboy]

I, too, have objections to the elitist attitude toward Bangkok, but this guy is the governor. If he did any less, I would be disappointed in him.

Unfortunately, they haven't really saved Bangkok--they have just decided which portions would be sacrificed--so far.

More or less my position.I admit also I have changed my mind.Earlier in the crisis I was quite critical of Sukhumbhand for his partisan approach, or taking decisions without taking the nation's interests as a whole into account.On reflection I accepted that his job is to take decisions in the interests of Bangkok alone, and it is for the government to overrule him if appropriate and if within its legal right.I think most Thais want to see co-operation not political bickering at this time.These decisions are incredibly difficult and sensitive, and inevitably some parties will not be happy with them.

Incidentally Pavin, whom I generally respect though he is a bit of a stirrer, makes a silly observation about Sukhumbhand's aristocratic background, introducing a class war element where it's completely inappropriate.

[sfbandung]

"Bangkok might be contributing almost 41 per cent to the country's GDP ..."

I love how he brushes this off as being almost insignificant. That's nearly half, and more than enough justification for taking drastic measures to protect it.

This seems to be a case of a lot of knowledge being a dangerous thing. He's enagaging in some spectacular mental gymnastics to convince himself that the social and financial capital of the nation shouldn't be given some priority.

[whybother]

...

Incidentally Pavin, whom I generally respect though he is a bit of a stirrer, makes a silly observation about Sukhumbhand's aristocratic background, introducing a class war element where it's completely inappropriate.

"introducing a class war element"

That's been the gist of most of his recent articles.

[sfbandung]

What an idiot. That's all that is worth saying.

And he does have the sort of smug face that you wouldn't tire of punching.

He looks like he'd prefer a slap. He certainly deserves one.

[nurofiend]

...

tho i'm still open to someone answering my question of whether they always post guest columnist's pictures for their article as a rule on here?

Looking on the Nation website under "Opinion" / "Guest Columnist" ... the answer would be, generally Yes.

http://www.nationmul...uest-columnist/

seemed to be a more, generally no to my eyes....

i'm sure there's no intention of inciting personal insults against this man by posting up his picture instead of something else or no picture at all...as seen in most of the linked articles you've shown, yes fully sure

this thread certainly proves that by posting his picture, people haven't taken to insulting him personally even based on his looks

[DocN]

Honestly? I really don't give a flying FROC about WHY the govenor did what he did. If his personal agenda was to keep the "elite" (whatever that means) dry or as personal vendetta against the reds.

Fact is: keeping Bangkok dry as best as possible, is a MUST!

First because of the sheer mass of people, who can not possibly be evacuated as easy as village with 3000 inhabitants.

Second because of the fact that the city undoubtedly IS the motor/heart of the economy and because rebuilding and/or compensating is simply not possible without the money and jobs created here.

Third because of the enviromental issues. The dirt that is in that water right now, is bad enough. I don't even want to imagine what mass of extra filth Bangkok would ad to that "soup".

My only point of citicism is (and it is widely speculation, because I am no expert): IF there would have been a functional flood amangement, that would have said "Sir, with all due respect...open the <deleted> gates!", he just has to obey. No matter what his objective is. If the city would have to fall for the "greater good"...so be it!

[erobando]

The Bangkok government hasn't been perfect during this crisis, but I haven't seen Sukhumbhand acting only based upon partisanship.

IMO Bangkok had some sort of plan of what they wanted to and had the ability to protect, while FROC operates with no plan at all.

[AleG]

Funny. The dude puts down one big city (Bangkok) while living in an even bigger one (Singapore).

I was thinking something similar, did you know that Singapore has the widest gap between rich and poor in the world? Or second widest, but you get the idea.

[spidermike007]

This amateur is completely out of his element, and talking out of his ***. This has nothing to do with royal protection, politics, etc. What this tiny minded man cannot see, if that it is about protecting the capital of the nation. 40% of the nations GDP, the banking sector, the stock market, the major malls, transportation hubs, and the highest density of population in the land. It is not about the capital, vs. the farmland. It is so much bigger than that. If all of the capital floods, the country suffers immeasurably more. Why can't these small minded men see that? What is so complex about this equation?

[ratcatcher]

Shame on you Pavin Chachavalpongpun! Stop your hatred against Bangkokians, of which many are poor or average people. Far from all Bangkokians are "Elite´s" as you claim. By the way - Have you ever heard about a country without an elite? It simply does not exist, and also elite´s are important for their country.

What would the true benefit be (other than political), by flooding a major city with 15-20 Million people, just to lead the water away from the flooded mainly rice fields and farming land up north?

This blog is clearly a Red Shirt attack to the country and should not be allowed to be published here on Thai-Visa.

Now that the government have already flooded (intentionally failed to protect) Bangkok, the poor people who support this government and sabotaged the efforts to protect Bangkok, will very soon be a lot poorer. If they think that they are already poor now, they will have to think again!

Freedom of speech and publication is something most people value. I just read between the lines. I might not agree with his opinion, but he is entitled to have one and if The Nation chooses to print, so be it. No need for censorship here.

[tominbkk]

Oh, and by the way, I think that the people of Bangkok have shown commendable calm and fortitude in this flood. None of my staff show the "hyper-hysterical panic" the author writes about. Instead, they wade to work, wash off, put in a day's work, then buy what supplies they can and wade home again. Many spend the night in the upper floor of a house or apartment block without power, toilets or drinkable water. Singpore-boy and The Nation should hang their heads in shame for these disgusting and ill-founded remarks.

+1

the only time I have seen panic is when the government was giving evacuation notices at midnight, that end up being false calls. Otherwise, people in general all around me remain as cheerful, supportive, and calm as possible. How would he know anything about how the people are here when he is currently residing outside of Bangkok?

Edited November 9, 2011 by tominbkk

[nurofiend]

Shame on you Pavin Chachavalpongpun! Stop your hatred against Bangkokians, of which many are poor or average people. Far from all Bangkokians are "Elite´s" as you claim. By the way - Have you ever heard about a country without an elite? It simply does not exist, and also elite´s are important for their country.

What would the true benefit be (other than political), by flooding a major city with 15-20 Million people, just to lead the water away from the flooded mainly rice fields and farming land up north?

This blog is clearly a Red Shirt attack to the country and should not be allowed to be published here on Thai-Visa.

Now that the government have already flooded (intentionally failed to protect) Bangkok, the poor people who support this government and sabotaged the efforts to protect Bangkok, will very soon be a lot poorer. If they think that they are already poor now, they will have to think again!

Freedom of speech and publication is something most people value. I just read between the lines. I might not agree with his opinion, but he is entitled to have one and if The Nation chooses to print, so be it. No need for censorship here.

it has to be said...xonax's post had, oh just an air of elitism to it :lol:

[hammered]

The odd thing is that he is voicing an opinion (minus the touching on certain issues that dont get discussed) that can be heard far and wide across Thailand among those who you wont find posting in places such as these. It has even percolated into cartoons and comment in mainstream Thai media that reaches far more people than the sources cited on this site. To dent the opinion exisits, to deny the opinion has any validity and to try and cast the notion off as stupidity only exposes those who do so as ignorant of the huge divides in Thailand, the massive inequalities and the now huge resentment this has created. Whether people want to agree with the opinion or not, to not take it seriously is ridiculous.

Edited November 9, 2011 by hammered

[473geo]

The volume of water dictates it would be too dangerous to be released quickly through Bangkok, The volume of water will take along time channel around Bangkok........

That is the simplicity of the situation.......the only realistic methodology given the current circumstances would appear to be damage limitation

The Thai people will suffer, but as ever, will do their best to alleviate the suffering

Others will do what they do best........look for somewhere to pin the blame

[Buchholz]

i'm sure there's no intention of inciting personal insults against this man by posting up his picture

It's the exact same photo as used in any number of other web pages about him. So much so, one might imagine that it is the author's own personal favorite.

National University of Singapore Conference Moderator

http://www.nuspaf.nuspa.org/speakers_profile.html

Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, Singapore, Viewpoints

http://web1.iseas.edu.sg/?p=1087

Foreign Correspondents’ Club, Hong Kong, Guest Speaker

http://www.fcchk.org/event?keys=&tid=All&date_filter%5Bmin%5D&date_filter%5Bdefault_date%5D=&date_filter%5Bmax%5D&date_filter%5Bdefault_to_date%5D=&sort_by=created&sort_order=DESC&page=7

etc.

[Calach]

Fortunately the remarkable attitude of most Thais (not shared by their politicians btw) contrasts with those taking the opportunity of these devastating floods to spill their pathetic short-sighted frustrations.

[Gianni77]

It was like reading Berlusconi, Bush and Yingluck all in one... what a waste of my time reading his crap...

[sparebox2]

Do we really have to see a portrait of this person every time he decides to preach to us? There must be something more interesting, relevant and appealing for us to look at.

He now live high and dry in Singapore far from the flood. So he must be at least a little smarter than you, knee deep in water.

[Familyonthemove]

A simplistic and biased view of the floods yes, although he has a point about the major factories to the North of Bangkok, but I think he's totally wrong when he says that Bangkok people did not care when the central plains we're first flooded. Many people living in Bangkok have family in the North and I also saw and supported the regular collections of money and food to help people in the flooded areas. I also know volunteers who headed North in trucks full of emergency supplies .... ordinary Bangkok folk doing what they can to helping others.

Whatever the politics may be behind the scenes, I've been impressed with the calm and constructive way that the Thai people have responded to a tough situation.

[whybother]

So what you really mean is screww the hundreds who died in the outer areas because greedy and stupid people blocked the floods exit to the sea ??? All in the self serving self effacing way of world class <deleted> . You must be an elite member of the Hi So cretins who care for nothing except their own greed ?

And what you're saying is rather than 500 dead, you'd prefer a couple more thousand dead in Bangkok.

[DannyS1951]

It seems I will go along with the majority response. What a silly juvenile article. If you want to make a political point come out openly and say what it is. If you are having childish fantasies about Yingluck and feel the need to protect her reputation there are probably better places to do it.

This is the third Bangkok flood I have had the pleasure of living through. In 1983 there were virtually no real flood defenses and Bangkok was inundated. Flood defenses were increased and by 1995 only low lying parts of the city had real problems. As with today inhabitants outside the defenses certainly suffered and forced open water gates especially in the Minburi region. This time the city has done quite well although obviously more is needed to be to done.

To criticize Sukhumbhand for doing his job seems very strange unless you feel that all Democrats must be evil and all red shirts angelic. He is the governor of Bangkok, not the prime minister of Thailand. His job is to protect Bangkok. Does Khun Pavin really want the Bangkok governor to breach Bangkok's flood defenses? If so what was the point of building them for last twenty years? In fact why didn't Taksin while prime minister command the dismantling of the defenses?

Of course the problem with flood defenses is that there will always be an edge where there is a transition from defended to not defended. The inhabitants on the not defended side of this transition will always be wetter, and wetter for longer than if there had been no defenses. So maybe Khun Pavin feels there should be no defense so all the rich people in Bangkok get as wet as their neighbours. Unfortunately there are far more poor people in Bangkok who will get even wetter as the tend to live in single storied buildings while those richer have an upper floor to retreat to.

A good argument could be made for pushing the flood defenses further out and creating islands behind levees for urban and industrial concentrations in the flood plains. Shame that this article doesn't make any sensible arguments, in fact I get the impression that writer feels that if they couldn't burn the city they should maybe try flooding it instead. Certainly that Phue Thai MP driving the digger a couple of weeks ago looked like he was trying to do that.

[jybkk]

Khun Pavin needs to take a course in disaster management while he is there studying at Singapore.

The only valid reason for protecting Bangkok is because of the population density and the large number of people who would suffer (and die) compared to the surrounding areas.

GNP and economic factors etc are all secondary to the people.

If they had evacuated Bangkok .... sure I would agree ... flood the dam_n place and who cares.

But managing a disaster is about people and saving lives first.

And now: go and take the pill, like the doctor said!

What worries me is that a lot of people seem to share this view; that Bangkokians only live in condos and drive expensive cars, that flooding Bangkok would have significantly improved the plight of the regions flooded upstream, that this is just a ploy from elites to protect their greed or whatever.

Reality is simpler. They are trying to save whatever can be saved. Central Bangkok is the only area that is equipped with flood defenses, and therefore the only thing they seem to have a chance at saving.

The water takes time to go away because the whole area is extremely flat. There was an animation done by a Japanese researcher of the flood spreading and you could clearly see the flow was slowing down and spreading east and west long before even touching Bangkok.

Edited November 9, 2011 by metisdead
Previously deleted post removed from quoted posts.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[OzMick]

Khun Pavin needs to take a course in disaster management while he is there studying at Singapore.

The only valid reason for protecting Bangkok is because of the population density and the large number of people who would suffer (and die) compared to the surrounding areas.

GNP and economic factors etc are all secondary to the people.

If they had evacuated Bangkok .... sure I would agree ... flood the dam_n place and who cares.

But managing a disaster is about people and saving lives first.

And now: go and take the pill, like the doctor said!

What worries me is that a lot of people seem to share this view; that Bangkokians only live in condos and drive expensive cars, that flooding Bangkok would have significantly improved the plight of the regions flooded upstream, that this is just a ploy from elites to protect their greed or whatever.

Reality is simpler. They are trying to save whatever can be saved. Central Bangkok is the only area that is equipped with flood defenses, and therefore the only thing they seem to have a chance at saving.

The water takes time to go away because the whole area is extremely flat. There was an animation done by a Japanese researcher of the flood spreading and you could clearly see the flow was slowing down and spreading east and west long before even touching Bangkok.

You might wonder why a "lot of people" share this view. Could it be because, although they have never been more than 50km from their village, they are "reliably" informed by their trusted news sources, which also accounts for many other of their distorted perceptions.

[Roadman]

Shame on you Pavin Chachavalpongpun! Stop your hatred against Bangkokians, of which many are poor or average people. Far from all Bangkokians are "Elite´s" as you claim. By the way - Have you ever heard about a country without an elite? It simply does not exist, and also elite´s are important for their country.

What would the true benefit be (other than political), by flooding a major city with 15-20 Million people, just to lead the water away from the flooded mainly rice fields and farming land up north?

This blog is clearly a Red Shirt attack to the country and should not be allowed to be published here on Thai-Visa.

Now that the government have already flooded (intentionally failed to protect) Bangkok, the poor people who support this government and sabotaged the efforts to protect Bangkok, will very soon be a lot poorer. If they think that they are already poor now, they will have to think again!

Freedom of speech and publication is something most people value. I just read between the lines. I might not agree with his opinion, but he is entitled to have one and if The Nation chooses to print, so be it. No need for censorship here.

Agree. I lost any respect for this idiot's writings after his winding back Thai governance to pre 2006 coup article. This is just another of his idiotic articles. But I also will defend his right to write his garbage.

[MunterHunter]

You might wonder why a "lot of people" share this view. Could it be because, although they have never been more than 50km from their village, they are "reliably" informed by their trusted news sources, which also accounts for many other of their distorted perceptions.

Nail, head, hit...

[nurofiend]

i'm sure there's no intention of inciting personal insults against this man by posting up his picture

It's the exact same photo as used in any number of other web pages about him. So much so, one might imagine that it is the author's own personal favorite.

National University of Singapore Conference Moderator

http://www.nuspaf.nu...rs_profile.html

Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, Singapore, Viewpoints

http://web1.iseas.edu.sg/?p=1087

Foreign Correspondents' Club, Hong Kong, Guest Speaker

http://www.fcchk.org...der=DESC&page=7

etc.

well the first link you provided is showing you a picture of him as the moderator and the piece is about him... so obviously they have his picture for that

the second link, the picture for the article is of judges in the supreme court... so i'd assume if that article was printed here they would use that picture instead of his face eh? i don't think so personally.

the third link, is again about him, advertising him as a guest speaker... so again of course they would use his picture

so i don't how the two link's of pieces about him showing his picture and the other link not showing his picture as the 'story picture' is relevant to the point i made...at all.

[Crushdepth]

What an idiot. That's all that is worth saying.

And he does have the sort of smug face that you wouldn't tire of punching.

His trade is posting inflammatory articles on the internet to attract attention to himself, because he struggles to get peer reviewed articles published. He also published an unkind article about HM's dog on the same day (what talent!).

Basically, he's a second rate academic trying to justify his existence.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Crushdepth

[nurofiend]

What an idiot. That's all that is worth saying.

And he does have the sort of smug face that you wouldn't tire of punching.

His trade is posting inflammatory articles on the internet to attract attention to himself, because he struggles to get peer reviewed articles published. He also published an unkind article about HM's dog on the same day (what talent!).

Basically, he's a second rate academic trying to justify his existence.

second rate academic?

B.A. (Hons) (International Relations) Chulalongkorn University, MPhil/Ph.D. (Political Studies), School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London.Lead Researcher for Political and Strategic Affairs, ASEAN Studies Centre.