Floods Likely To Renew Interest In Condos: Thailand

[tingtongfarang]

Tried living in a condo and the main reason i moved was the lack of security, One time i found the 2 security guys with tools under my car!

Girl next door woke up to find a guy in her room ...said he had been in while she was sleeping many times and came to loan dvds but always brought the old ones back,

I was on the 6th floor and the whistlers were making me crazy and not just from my condo building but others around too,

3 years ago i rented a two bedroom house 10 minutes away from the bts by bycicle if i should need it...1 car about every 30 mins goes past and its hard to beleive your in the city and no whistlers or dogs barking, Car ,motocyc and bycicle are outside the door about 1 meter away and all for 5000bht pm ...about 1/4 of the condo rental,

The only time i get disturbed or woken in the night is when a monitor lizard climbs on my car and sets the alarm off...although i did have one fall though the kitchen roof some days ago...guess he was too heavy.

[xthAi76s]

What is good living in a condo when y you still have to comeout and try to get food and water in the flooded area or even in places thatare dry? You still have other logistic problem whether you live in a flooded area,house or condo

I am most interested to hear the response from the condo " bulls " to this particular question?

I would like to see/know the underlying reasoning behind this article. It seems a stretch to anticipate an upswing in condo living as a result of this flooding.

I am also interested to know what they think. I am in a business which requires me to study and to keep abreast of housing preferences in Bangkok. I think given the historical Thai propensity for true house ownership, I doubt this flooding will precipitate a huge upswing in condo ownership. It would seem in Bangkok, people live in condos overwhelmingly because they feel they have to. They are either students from outside of Bangkok who goto school in Bangkok and thus want to live closer to their schools. Perhaps they are families who need a temporary place in Bangkok in addition to their house(s) else because of work. Of course, many expats (like myself) like the 'convenience' of not having to tend to all the responsibilities of house ownership. My research has led me to believe that Thais almost always would prefer a house to a condo. Unlike a city like Tokyo or New York, Thai people are not trying to move into the center of the city to 'live the city life'.

My wife and I reside in a condo, and there are all kinds of issues with all but the most high-end condos here in Bangkok.

The building materials are woefully suspect. Maintenance is performed CONSTANTLY, but alas thing slowly deteriorate anyway. It's a well-known phenomenon here that the investment condo owners will generally sell their units or otherwise pull out after 4 or 5 years after which time it's quite well-known that the buildings begin to deteriorate. I have yet to see one (even on the higher-end like Sansiri north of 6 - 10 mil) that a properly constructed for the climate. The units end up being sauna/sweat boxes in this climate. The houses, on the other hand, are very often constructed with the necessary sensibilities to provide comfortable, open, airy, shady & cool living environments.

The thing that makes condos attractive in cities that people actually *want* to live in the middle of like NYC, Tokyo, Seoul, ect is that they are in the middle of those cities. Otherwise, people will most often want more space, not living on top of or below other people, a place where they can blast their bass-heavy music and drink and party without bothering (too many) people, etc. Condos are generally not pleasant as compared to houses. That is amplified here where they really are overpriced, very poorly constructed sweatboxes with nice signs in the front of the property and security guards who salute every time you pass...

Reason for edit: grammar

"I doubt this flooding will precipitate a huge upswing in condo ownership"

You are wrong. Your whole post is nonsensical and based on a false belief.

plenty of townhouses flooding the market soon for obvious reasons (no pun)

.

Care to elaborate?

[WhizBang]

A few years back In British Columbia province in Canada even with building codes they had a big problem with condos and mold and rot destroying the buildings. Whole condo buildings had to be opened up and repaired at great cost to the condo owners. Many people had to just walk away from their condo homes. If this can happen where there is building codes and no flooding, What do you think will happen to condos built here in Thailand with no codes and poor materials?I quess 15 years after they are built they will have to be evacuated for being unsafe to live in.

Oh my God.  I had better tip toe quietly out of my 35 plus year old condo, lest it go up in a puff of dust.

[zorro1]

...

Reason for edit: grammar

"I doubt this flooding will precipitate a huge upswing in condo ownership"

You are wrong. Your whole post is nonsensical and based on a false belief.

plenty of townhouses flooding the market soon for obvious reasons (no pun)

.

Care to elaborate?

"My research has led me to believe that Thais almost always would prefer a house to a condo"

Im assuming your research was done before the flood would that be correct? No doubt you will have to start researching from scratch again after this event.

Go in the field and ask those in 2 m of water what they would prefer?

[bkkjames]

A few years back In British Columbia province in Canada even with building codes they had a big problem with condos and mold and rot destroying the buildings. Whole condo buildings had to be opened up and repaired at great cost to the condo owners. Many people had to just walk away from their condo homes. If this can happen where there is building codes and no flooding, What do you think will happen to condos built here in Thailand with no codes and poor materials?I quess 15 years after they are built they will have to be evacuated for being unsafe to live in.

Oh my God. I had better tip toe quietly out of my 35 plus year old condo, lest it go up in a puff of dust.

What Lovelosmak didn't say was that problem in BC and elsewhere was due to condos that were NOT built from concrete - I haven't seen any condos here built with 2x4's, fiberglass insulation and gyproc.

[xthAi76s]

Zorro1,

I see.

Yes, it was done before this flood. I suppose to be fair, though, and for the sake of argument, it was indeed done after other floods. Would you agree with that statement?

Anyway, to get back to the point, I would suspect that if I go into a field of people affected by the flooding, many might think owning a condo would be a pretty swell idea. Well, that is, if/until the center of the city and its condos are hit.

I'm interested to know if you can develop your argument a bit more thoroughly. I'm sure there are people here who disagree with my thinking (I expect there to be), but I can't quite make sense of your overall argument.

At any rate, thanks for the contribution.

-

tm

[scotto]

Being seriuos i reckon a house that rises in floods like the ones in holland would be a good idea

but then again why not buy a house in a non flood prone area?

or buy a condo if thats what you like but do not moan about upkeep, i no many farang buy

condos because of the law but you have to look at everything involved with what you are buying and whether its the right

thing for your current situation my wife wants to but a house but i like the idea of renting because if we ever split up

guess who gets everything yep not me!!

Some posters might say thats a bit harsh but i have been through it all before once bitten twice shy?

Also many people say thai -farang marriages do not last i would hope i am wrong in this sentence

because i love my wife and son very much.

So think before you buy is it right for me

[Firefan]

I do not think that this will affect condo prices positively as such. Both foreign/Thai investors/buyers should rush to flooded country/city to buy condos? Makes no sense.

House prices in some flood prone areas might drop though.

I live in (and own)a condo, but if the electricity(Incl. elevators) goes - I would have to leave(swim?) no matter what floor I am on, as the condo get too hot.

Time will show! Cheers!

[xthAi76s]

I do not think that this will affect condo prices positively as such. Both foreign/Thai investors/buyers should rush to flooded country/city to buy condos? Makes no sense.

House prices in some flood prone areas might drop though.

I live in (and own)a condo, but if the electricity(Incl. elevators) goes - I would have to leave(swim?) no matter what floor I am on, as the condo get too hot.

Time will show! Cheers!

I agree. The article *as reported* stands rather weak on this point.

There should be all kinds of complex variables affecting people's desire or lack-thereof for condo ownership. The author listed some of them that contradict the article title. A couple of the big ones are difficulty with project financing and a contraction in consumer spending.

A condo may or may not be better from a technical/engineering perspective as compared to a house. Time will also tell. One major issue I would anticipate after flooding is mold damage throughout the building even in the many condos that don't have units on the ground level. Damaged foundations, etc. Condo owners have to pay for any work required to be done, or, at a very minimum, fight with the developers who will most certainly win forcing the owners to either foot the bill or pull out. With respect to these types of disasters, there are vulnerabilities to condo ownership which is likely to be esp pronounced for people who own condos as investment properties.

Also, condo culture is a relatively new thing here in Thailand that is in general conflict with Thai/Chinese preferences with respect to collective taxation. Thais/Chinese are not very keen on the concept of shared taxation and esp for things they don't see as having personal benefit. As an example, in our condo there have been board meetings recently to assess whether we should convert our small gym into a space to be rented for business events. There is a heavy leaning towards this because the owners who don't use the gym, don't want to pay for it. We will most likely loose our gym. Anyway, the point is that condo culture requires a collaborative, open, sharing financial spirit that as of yet does not exist here (as it would not likely exist in most poor countries). I think this is a major hurdle to overcome for sustainable local ownership in condos.

For the people with more money to throw around, owning a condo in the CBD, for instance, is great because logic would tell us that in any disaster these types of very important economic centers will be guarded as well as possible, but how many people (including those newly affected who have now lost significant wealth as a result of damaged property -- homes, cars, other) will be in a position financially in the near future to own a high rise condo along Sukhumvit?

You're right. It doesn't make any sense that the flooding would drive people into condos. Might encourage people to be more prepared, spend more time considering the location of their home, build houses up on stilts in areas prone to repeated flooding, but I still think it's a stretch to make the jump from flooding to 'let's move into a condo ... so we don't get flooded' kind of argument.

[Gary A]

All mine are 10th floor and above.

I was dealing on a really nice condo unit on the 16th floor. The day I was to give the seller a firm answer, the electricity was off and I found that they had no backup generator. I passed up the deal. I bought a unit on the third floor and seldom use the elevator except after shopping when I have a lot of things to carry.

If you are on the higher floors and the elevators are not working for one reason or another, you may not be too happy.

[RichardinBKK]

What is good living in a condo when y you still have to comeout and try to get food and water in the flooded area or even in places thatare dry? You still have other logistic problem whether you live in a flooded area,house or condo

I pity you if you can't see why it's better. Just sit down and have a think about it. If you really can't figure it out, let me know and I'll enlighten you. Or maybe stop a 5-year old in the street and ask them. I'm sure they'll figure it out right away.

Really...Yes...i think a 5 year old could break that one down easily.

But here is my current situation.

Chareon Nakorn, floor 30 facing Sathorn.

Power on - Check!

Internet running - Check!

Hot and cold running water - Check!

2 week supply of canned food, water, etc - Check!

10,000 Baht in small bills and coins - Check!

No water in sight form a 270 degree panoramic view - Check!

4 restaurants in the lobby - Check!

Laundry in Lobby - Check!

Dentist office in lobby - Check!

Water filtration machine to buy even more water from - Check!

Emergency generator - Check!

2 day reserve of fresh water for entire building - Check!

Water pumps to put the water back in the river (if it ever does come...) - Check!

5 security guards -Check!

Taxis lined up out front - Check!

3 7-11's within walking distance - Check!

5 pharmacies withing walking distance - Check!

Fresh food market open every morning at temple - Check!

Business as usual for miles around - Check!

This is getting tiring! Check!

OK, lets try it your way.

Power off Check!

internet dead Check!

Possibility of electrocution Check!

Chance of getting a serious disease Check!

Chance of actually losing a limb to infection Check!

Chance of being bitten by animal / insect Check!

Chance of being robbed

Sorry . need to stop...just got a call from Hong Kong on Skype... (sorry you can't do the same in the dark...

[elgenon]

1320798094[/url]' post='4833202']

Especially in dry areas in BKK. In lower Suk we are still unaffected

Is bottled water readily available in lower Sukumvit. 7/11 ? Elsewhere? Where?

[HerbalEd]

What is good living in a condo when y you still have to comeout and try to get food and water in the flooded area or even in places thatare dry? You still have other logistic problem whether you live in a flooded area,house or condo

I am most interested to hear the response from the condo " bulls " to this particular question?

Isn't the "good living in a condo" obvious? Yes, if your area is flooded then you have to deal with the ground-level flood hassles, but your home and possessions are high and dry.

[bkkjames]

All mine are 10th floor and above.

I was dealing on a really nice condo unit on the 16th floor. The day I was to give the seller a firm answer, the electricity was off and I found that they had no backup generator. I passed up the deal. I bought a unit on the third floor and seldom use the elevator except after shopping when I have a lot of things to carry.

If you are on the higher floors and the elevators are not working for one reason or another, you may not be too happy.

True, but honestly speaking in the last dozen years here I have lived in many condos / apartments and don't recall having the power go out to the lifts more than one time - for 30 mins.

[HerbalEd]

With land ownership laws and all, the issue may be moot for many people since only citizens may own land. However, I don't know how the average Thai would want to own a condo. The biggest problem I see is upkeep. Anywhere you go in BKK with older Condos, there just is no upkeep by the associations. Even places that aren't that old have the paint peeling off and plants growing all over the place. The condo in Thailand is made to look good just long enough to sell by the developer and then is allowed to fall apart.

Not my experience. My condo building is well managed and well maintained.

[HerbalEd]

A few years back In British Columbia province in Canada even with building codes they had a big problem with condos and mold and rot destroying the buildings. Whole condo buildings had to be opened up and repaired at great cost to the condo owners. Many people had to just walk away from their condo homes. If this can happen where there is building codes and no flooding, What do you think will happen to condos built here in Thailand with no codes and poor materials?I quess 15 years after they are built they will have to be evacuated for being unsafe to live in.

Indeed you do "guess."

[sparebox2]

Especially in dry areas in BKK. In lower Suk we are still unaffected

Is bottled water readily available in lower Sukumvit. 7/11 ? Elsewhere? Where?

Yes, if you don't mind Evian or Perrier.

[hammered]

The wealthy Bangkokians who dont already have one are going to definitely buy a condo or second home in nearby destinations that dont flood so that they have a place to play when the next one comes. I doubt anyone is going to trade the family house on a bunch of BKK rai in for a BKK condo and I doubt anyone is going to add a BKK condo to their current BKK holdings

[HerbalEd]

Especially in dry areas in BKK. In lower Suk we are still unaffected

Is bottled water readily available in lower Sukumvit. 7/11 ? Elsewhere? Where?

While water was in short supply for a few days, it is now readily available at Tops and Villa markets. I haven't checked 7/11 recently.

[bkkjames]

Especially in dry areas in BKK. In lower Suk we are still unaffected

Is bottled water readily available in lower Sukumvit. 7/11 ? Elsewhere? Where?

While water was in short supply for a few days, it is now readily available at Tops and Villa markets. I haven't checked 7/11 recently.

Perhaps just me or the guy looking for water in 711 posted in the wrong thread? Maybe he wants a condo as well but his OP was a bit fuzzy on that point.

[bendejo]

Buildings to be equipped with docks for boats? Tuktuk drivers trading in for longtails? How about a new, romantic gondola service for the tourists?

I would think some of these companies that have manufacturing plants and are currently taking a hit from the flooding are going to be researching the likelihood that these floods are going be a regular occurrence. This could be bad news for the Thai economy. Not going to be much of a market for 20,000,000 baht condos either.

[thedistillers]

Why would a sane person have any interest to buy a condo in Bangkok at this point? Pollution, traffic and now we can add terrorism and massive flooding to the list; welcome to Jakarta 2.0. Value will significantly drop within the next 50 years as the city is sinking and the capital will be move elsewhere eventually, so rent is the only sane solution for those unfortunate enough to be stuck in Bangkok.

[khaan]

Why would a sane person have any interest to buy a condo in Bangkok at this point? Pollution, traffic and now we can add terrorism and massive flooding to the list; welcome to Jakarta 2.0. Value will significantly drop within the next 50 years as the city is sinking and the capital will be move elsewhere eventually, so rent is the only sane solution for those unfortunate enough to be stuck in Bangkok.

[finnomick1]

The wealthy Bangkokians who dont already have one are going to definitely buy a condo or second home in nearby destinations that dont flood so that they have a place to play when the next one comes. I doubt anyone is going to trade the family house on a bunch of BKK rai in for a BKK condo and I doubt anyone is going to add a BKK condo to their current BKK holdings

I own an apartment / condo in Jomtien ( 17th floor ). The building is quite old but well maintained. It was built at a time when Bangkokians had spare cash and the ownership ratio is over 70% Thai to others. Normally, it's amazingly quiet with most Bangkokians visiting only once or twice a year. Not quiet now, it's choka. Luckily, I also have a house ' up country ' and can escape.......anyone want to buy a condo ?

[khaan]

The wealthy Bangkokians who dont already have one are going to definitely buy a condo or second home in nearby destinations that dont flood so that they have a place to play when the next one comes. I doubt anyone is going to trade the family house on a bunch of BKK rai in for a BKK condo and I doubt anyone is going to add a BKK condo to their current BKK holdings

I own an apartment / condo in Jomtien ( 17th floor ). The building is quite old but well maintained. It was built at a time when Bangkokians had spare cash and the ownership ratio is over 70% Thai to others. Normally, it's amazingly quiet with most Bangkokians visiting only once or twice a year. Not quiet now, it's choka. Luckily, I also have a house ' up country ' and can escape.......anyone want to buy a condo ?

bingo!

In case anyone hasn't noticed there is currently a slow motion train wreck occurring throughout Europe's economies which will shortly

be followed by USA and in China they are slashing condominium prices by 30%. It would be absolutely naive to think even without

these current floods that Thai's will continue to have so much spare cash in their pockets ?

[shunima]

A few years back In British Columbia province in Canada even with building codes they had a big problem with condos and mold and rot destroying the buildings. Whole condo buildings had to be opened up and repaired at great cost to the condo owners. Many people had to just walk away from their condo homes. If this can happen where there is building codes and no flooding, What do you think will happen to condos built here in Thailand with no codes and poor materials?I quess 15 years after they are built they will have to be evacuated for being unsafe to live in.

Wrong guess.

[ginjag]

Why would a sane person have any interest to buy a condo in Bangkok at this point? Pollution, traffic and now we can add terrorism and massive flooding to the list; welcome to Jakarta 2.0. Value will significantly drop within the next 50 years as the city is sinking and the capital will be move elsewhere eventually, so rent is the only sane solution for those unfortunate enough to be stuck in Bangkok.

Will be very interesting what percent of posters and Thais who do not need to live there, will relocate after this, property prices will drop. Outside up country houses are so cheap, many will be looking there--my home at 799 thousand -detached- 2 meter wall around -double block house wall-karaoke-mini mart-sep self cont-granny flat-large garage. Hence the reason to inform posters re prices up here. Soon the house prices will increase up country -especially on higher land.

[IsaanUSA]

It would be absolutely naive to think even without these current floods that Thai's will continue to have so much spare cash in their pockets ?

No kidding. I don't know a lot of Bangkokonites that have a few million baht just burning a hole in their pocket.

[chooka]

I hear the prices have increased In Chiangmai.

[culicine]

I would much rather live in a house and put up with the occassional floods here inThonburi than live in an 30 floor elevated dog kennel built by illegal immgrants using suspect buildng materials. What happens when you need supplies and have to go down stairs and mingle with the soi people ? What happens if your power is cut ?

If the power is cut you just use candles and/or torches. I'd rather live in a dry condo without power than in a house flooded up to waist/chest height. But if you prefer a house then you are very lucky, because there should be some bargains around at the moment.

Also, the condos people buy are more likely to be in non-flooded areas, so the problems you talk about are highly unlikely to happen. This is the worst flood for 50 years and central Bangkok is still dry. It doesn't mean floods will never affect it, but it means it's pretty safe from flooding. Also, water management is bound to be improves, so flooding will be even less likely.

Dog kennels are very small. Some condos are huge. Some houses are extremely small. So whether it's better to have a house or a condo depends on what size house or condo you buy/rent.

You could ask the same questions about a flooded house. What happens when you need supplies and have to go out and mingle with the soi people ? What happens if your power is cut ? Your questions are equally relevant to houses and condos, so no idea why you are aiming it at people who live in condos. It is obvious that condos have an advantage in floods because they stay dry. Whether you have a house or a condo is a personal choice. Houses suit some people and condos suit others.

Another advantage of condos, is that they have security.

So if the area is flooded, and you want to get out of the city for a while, you know that somebody is guarding your property.

If you leave your house for a week, it might get robbed.

Well our security guards in our village are still there - patrolling in boats over the last few weeks. They have been promised 500 baht from each house owner if no property goes missing over the period of flooding. It's fair enough as they are working in difficulty conditions. Don't think your average condo is any more secure. Quite a number of friends have had their apartments broken into here. It's all about location and what you are willing to pay.

Still I'd rather live out of town and get the occasional flooding (bear in mind we only took 25-30 cm of water above our floor) - still devastating for timber furniture, but not as bad as many areas. Our floor is 3m above mean sea level.

I don't believe there will be a massive shift to buying condos - far too many people have been affected across a wide area for it to really depress resale values, certainly not in the long term. Perhaps new buyers will think twice about buying a detached house / townhouse, especially single story places.

Anyway my plan is to rebuild to make it a little more 'flood proof' - concrete / tile / plastic or solid hardwood timber to replace composite wood products.