Installing A Water Tank/Storage System

[ravip]

Hi, As we have started renovating our house (nearby Cha am /Hua hin area) I was planning of having a reliable water storage system. My idea was to have one tank underground which will be replenished by the city water supply system (which is not very reliable in the area our house is) and a pump automatically topping up the overhead tank.

I would greatly appreciate some advice on...

- brand and material of tank

- brand of the water pump

- best method of installation

- approximate cost

Thank you

[stgrhe]

Chose a Grundfos pump. They cost a little more but run as clockwork.

[Crossy]

I wouldn't bother with the overhead tank, just a pump (with pressure tank) direct off your main underground storage. Ensure you have a bypass for mains water for when your pump is out of action.

[lopburi3]

With current flooding do not believe I would want underground storage myself if wanting to count on having unpolluted water in an emergency. In Bangkok normal above ground storage seems to be the preferred method, fed by float valve on normal water supply and feeding a water pump to pressure house. Grundfos if you want high pressure and only using single pipe (no separate hot water line) as pressure is about double that of normal well pump most people use. I use a valve change to switch to normal city water if pump fails and prefer that than trust in one-way automatic systems working.

[Crossy]

Do something like this:-

If you worry about the reliability of a non-return valve, just use an ordinary stop valve. Keep it 'off' when the pump is in service, open it to get water with the pump out of commission.

[TongueThaied]

Do something like this:-

If you worry about the reliability of a non-return valve, just use an ordinary stop valve. Keep it 'off' when the pump is in service, open it to get water with the pump out of commission.

I ike your diagram. However, my community water, while generally clean, ever so often comes loaded with particulates. Thus, I would like to run it through a sand filter BEFORE going into the storage tank, to avoid sediment in the storage tank. I cannot seem to figure out a way to do this with a single pump, unless there was such a thing as an airtight sand filter that would allow the village water pressure to drive the water through the sand filter into the storage tank. Is there any such thing? The only thing I have been able to think of is putting the storage tank in the gound so the water can drain naturally into it from the sand filter, but I prefer not to do this. Any ideas?

[Daffy D]

Do something like this:-

If you worry about the reliability of a non-return valve, just use an ordinary stop valve. Keep it 'off' when the pump is in service, open it to get water with the pump out of commission.

Hi Crossy

Is the pressure tank between the tank and house supply really necessary?

I had a similar system in a previous house and the pump was connected directly to the house without a pressure tank and that seemed to work just fine.

[lopburi3]

You really should not need an extra filter if just occasional and you draw water from above the bottom of storage tank - they will settle to bottom and you then drain/clean when required. If you want to filter they have sealed units that you can place between tank and pump and pull the water through them so only one pump required.

[Crossy]

Is the pressure tank between the tank and house supply really necessary?

It's usually part of the pump although separate (bigger) ones are available. The idea is that the tank provides a reserve of pressure to handle small demands so the pump doesn't start for every cup of water drawn.

[Crossy]

However, my community water, while generally clean, ever so often comes loaded with particulates. Thus, I would like to run it through a sand filter BEFORE going into the storage tank, to avoid sediment in the storage tank.

If it's only occasionally why not use one of the cartridge filters like you would have on a tap? Bigger ones intended for incoming supplies are available. With a fairly coarse filter to keep the really crunchy bits out you should be good to go.

Or as L3 notes, if you don't draw from the very bottom of the tank the lumps will settle out and an occasional drain and clean is all you need to do.

[TommyDee]

I have completely rebuilt the water supply for our estate. with the exception of the fact that we draw water from under ground and you will being using city water, there is no real difference.

the underground tank needs to be clean, ( fiberglass is good, steel isnt). it also needs to be big, much bigger than you imagine, since you will be using it for household and garden in the hot season.

The standard way to keep the level is with a float switch, a floating devise that tells the pump that the level is below the pre set. you set the level (trial and error) these switches are, IMHO unreliable as they have a life of about6-12 months max. ( regardless of price or model), so a keen eye is needed every so often on the tank level ( visual check is fine, i do it daily with my first coffee and fag)

Pumping out to a tower is easily done with a TOA supplied pump. not expensive they range in price from 4-9K. You are better off with the more pwerful ones and always take into consideration how HIGH you are pumpin the water. We have a huge water tower to supply 5 homes and gardens, the inherited pump was only just capable of lifting the water to the tower, the one we have now is a "real man" pump and does the job with ease. i suggest installing as many non return valves in the system as you can. we have one between the pump and tower and one between the pump and underground reservoir. if the pump runs dry or has air in it it WILL NOT SELF PRIME. water pumps cant pump air, so they overheat and burn out. Inevitably you will use the standard blue pipe and the standard solvent to join it. trust me, non return valves are an investment

We use a large swimming pool style filter on the output from the tower. I backflush it monthly (even then its not bad) so you do need an earea where you can dump the water on backflush. plumbing in a backflush pipe to a lawn is a good idea as then you are not really losing the water. the whole operation is less than ten minutes once a month.

We use the mistubishi pumps ( house pumps) as boosters to the houses. they really come into play when you want a powerful shower or find that your shower is either freezing cold or boiling hot as the pressure isnt enough to let the mixer and heater really work. we DONT have sub tanks on the pumps but i think its something i am going to look into, at the moment the pumps need draining down monthly which is a pain but easy to do.

All sounds like a lot of work, but it really isnt. the only time its a bitch is when something packs up and there is no water. after 4 years I think i know the system backwards and have backup systems in place too.

we also have a drinkng water filter under the sink in the kitchen, supplies drinking water and water for the fridge to make ice and ice water.

hope some of this helps

Edited November 10, 2011 by TommyDee

[TongueThaied]

However, my community water, while generally clean, ever so often comes loaded with particulates. Thus, I would like to run it through a sand filter BEFORE going into the storage tank, to avoid sediment in the storage tank.

If it's only occasionally why not use one of the cartridge filters like you would have on a tap? Bigger ones intended for incoming supplies are available. With a fairly coarse filter to keep the really crunchy bits out you should be good to go.

Or as L3 notes, if you don't draw from the very bottom of the tank the lumps will settle out and an occasional drain and clean is all you need to do.

Oaky, I was probably trying to be nice, because the water folks here in my village do work hard.

At least once a week a big wad of black water comes blowing through. It may coincide with the cleaning of the sand filters at the water facility. But when it comes, there is a lot. It even settles in the pipes to the house. About once or twice a month, I have to turn on the taps and go bang all along the pipe with a hammer to shake it all loose and blow it through. So there is enough of it that it would quickly load up a cartridge filter, resulting in considerable expense as it would have to be changed often. I think a sand filter is the only solution if I want to permanently end this problem. Even then, I would have to continue periodicaly cleaning the pipe on the street side of the tank.

If I just let the particulates settle in the tank, that would work, in theory. However, at the time they blew in,the water in the tank would have a high turbidity and the nasty stuff would blow right on into the house as well, getting my pipes all crudded up. The arrival of the black stuff is only periodic, but unpredictable. I need to stop it cold.

If there is a sealed sand filter unit that stays reliably airtight, that would be the answer, but one leak and it wouldn't work.

Right now, I get the water straight. No tank, no pump, nothing. I live with the in-laws. Either this month or next, I will join Crossy in building a house. The system I seek will be for that. I want to get it perfect the first time. (-:

I hope the fight is going well, Crossy. I look forward to the house, but not the process!

Edited November 10, 2011 by TongueThaied

[TongueThaied]

Thanks, Tommy Dee. It all helps. It all goes into the old pea, where a plan is brewing!

[TommyDee]

no worries

if you are going to install a sand filter (swimming pool filter) on a mains supply you will need a booster pump as it will slow down the flow of water. it will stop the black stuff. that is the layer of crud that sits on the sand filter and builds up. when u backflush all that crud comes out. then you RINSE the system ( all in the 10 min job) so that the water going to your house is crystal clear.

[Daffy D]

Is the pressure tank between the tank and house supply really necessary?

It's usually part of the pump although separate (bigger) ones are available. The idea is that the tank provides a reserve of pressure to handle small demands so the pump doesn't start for every cup of water drawn.

Ops! I remember now. Mine was one of those "bigger" pumps with a small air tank inside.

(Got to beat the old memory cells back into submission)

[lopburi3]

Not all use the pressure tank system - Grundfos has several oz of water which allows for slow leaking but is designed to operate whenever water is used (so you have to expect a stutter step start) but in use water will always be a full pressure rather than the up/down you get from a pressure tank shallow well pump.

[haveaniceday]

at the moment the pumps need draining down monthly which is a pain but easy to do.

TommyDee, you are talking about your filter correct ?

Not a standard household pump and a 10-20l pressure tank on top.

[TommyDee]

at the moment the pumps need draining down monthly which is a pain but easy to do.

TommyDee, you are talking about your filter correct ?

Not a standard household pump and a 10-20l pressure tank on top.

well sadly no. our ex "pet" local expert installed the pumps on each house without any tank. so the pumps need draining down from their little maybe 5 litre tanks every 30 days. I am thinking of putting an extra tank on one to see if it stops the need. if I do I gues it simply goes inline beteen the pump and the house supply.. any ideas welcome

this has been a 3 year project of "suck it and see" as far as water is concerned. All seems good now but in inherited the worst supply system when i bought here and have completely redesigned it. the final bit was the booster pumps. we have a good pressure but not good enough to get a really super water pressure upstairs, hence their addition

[ravip]

Thank you Crossy. We installed a system very similar to your suggestion. Bought all the stuff from HomePro and asked them to install too. Pump available at the time was Hitachi.