Thai Army Deserves All The Current Praise It Is Getting: Flood

[DocN]

The army are just doing their job seems to be condemning with faint praise, overlooking that they are doing their job with diligence and competence lacking in many of the others involved.

Will those only willing to concede that they are doing their job, also admit that removing armed terrorists from the capital was also "only doing their job"?

Ok...I'll take the bait.

a) "overlooking that they are doing their job with diligence and competence" - my dentist does the same!

"diligence and competence lacking in many of the others involved." - agreed

c) "Will those only willing to concede that they are doing their job, also admit that removing armed terrorists from the capital was also "only doing their job"? Unfortunately, if you are a soldier, that might also be part of the job. And please: as long as it not 100% clear, please keep in mind that there is still a good chance, that "terrorists" were probably not the only people "removed".

But still...and again....: they are doing a GOOD JOB!

[jayboy]

I'm not saying you're wrong entirely Jayboy, but why do you hold the military up to such a higher standard than the police. Anyone with two braincells to rub together will know the police have killed many more people, stolen much more money, affected much more fear, than has the Army. Why do you always let one slide and not the other?

I don't think I have commented on the police much but certainly, as most would agree, it is a generally corrupt and ineffective organisation in need of major reform.I don't disagree with your summary.

The reason why I focus on the army is simply because it is exponentially more powerful and influential.You are right that on a daily basis the police are much more a pain in the neck to the average citizen.But it is the army (specifically its ludicrously over manned senior officer corps) with its political pretensions, massive corruption and insufferable arrogance that drags the country down to banana republic status.An important start to reform would be to strip the army of all media interests.

As a point of historical interest the police was at one time much more politically powerful than it is now.I think I'm right in saying in the 1950's/1960's it had its own tanks and jet fighters (courtesy the CIA)!

[sparebox2]

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,

The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats (soldiers) here."

The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,

I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";

But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,

The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,

O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play. Rudyard Kippling.

Mostly true the World over, although latterly the UK and USA are giving much more credit to their brave service personnel and making their sacrifices known more widely to the public, consequently they are being looked upon far more favourably. I hope the same happens in Thailand for these unselfish, dedicated and hard working people. You have jusifiably earned the respect of your fellow countrymen.:jap:

To be fair I think the vast majority of Thais regardless of background and political affiliation have always held ordinary soldiers (the ones performing so well in this crisis) in high regard and affection.

The problem has rather been over many decades key senior officers' dreadful record,their human rights abuses, the murder of civilians,brutality in the South,their interference in politics more generally,their opposition to democratic progress, their business and media interests, their corruption,incompetence and complete absence of accountability.All of which wrapped up in one big lie, namely that the purpose is to serve the nation.

I'm not saying you're wrong entirely Jayboy, but why do you hold the military up to such a higher standard than the police. Anyone with two braincells to rub together will know the police have killed many more people, stolen much more money, affected much more fear, than has the Army. Why do you always let one slide and not the other?

Thaksin Shinwatra was a cop! So all cops must be good!

Or otherwise. Depending if you are Yellow or Red.

[rogerdee123]

The army are just doing their job seems to be condemning with faint praise, overlooking that they are doing their job with diligence and competence lacking in many of the others involved.

Will those only willing to concede that they are doing their job, also admit that removing armed terrorists from the capital was also "only doing their job"?

Ok...I'll take the bait.

a) "overlooking that they are doing their job with diligence and competence" - my dentist does the same!

"diligence and competence lacking in many of the others involved." - agreed

c) "Will those only willing to concede that they are doing their job, also admit that removing armed terrorists from the capital was also "only doing their job"? Unfortunately, if you are a soldier, that might also be part of the job. And please: as long as it not 100% clear, please keep in mind that there is still a good chance, that "terrorists" were probably not the only people "removed".

But still...and again....: they are doing a GOOD JOB!

you're a good sport Doc. We love you buddy !

[lannarebirth]

The army are just doing their job seems to be condemning with faint praise, overlooking that they are doing their job with diligence and competence lacking in many of the others involved.

Will those only willing to concede that they are doing their job, also admit that removing armed terrorists from the capital was also "only doing their job"?

Ok...I'll take the bait.

a) "overlooking that they are doing their job with diligence and competence" - my dentist does the same!

"diligence and competence lacking in many of the others involved." - agreed

c) "Will those only willing to concede that they are doing their job, also admit that removing armed terrorists from the capital was also "only doing their job"? Unfortunately, if you are a soldier, that might also be part of the job. And please: as long as it not 100% clear, please keep in mind that there is still a good chance, that "terrorists" were probably not the only people "removed".

But still...and again....: they are doing a GOOD JOB!

Actually, I agree with you DocN. I EXPECT that the Army will do their jobs and don't need to be praised for doing so. I do understand people are grateful for that and who would want to dissuade them from showing or speaking of their gratitude. What I'm wondering DocN, is do you agree that the POLICE are doing their job? TLansford a few posts up says they are. Frankly, I've never seen the police EVER do their job and when there's an important job to do, such as now, they are never to be found, ever. There's simply no money in it for them. Has that been your experience as well? I'm giving you the chance to call me a liar here.

Edited November 11, 2011 by lannarebirth

[Skywalker69]

It would be revealing to know if the 21st Infantry Regiment of the 2nd Infantry Division are at all involved in the anti-flood actions. Does anyone know?

Their involvement may further improve the perception of the army among the general population.

And after all, they do need to save a few lives in order to balance their karmic books, so to speak.

I think most people don't pay attention to what regiment or division. They only know the Army as the Army.

Also I doubt that the Karmic books allocate karma to Army divisions in any case. Individual soldiers perhaps.

But what do I know? Bhudda may have been a marine.

Most westerners might not pay attention, but the significance of this unit - and one or two others - is somewhat elevated in the minds of many Thais. The reasons for this lie in the unit's patronage and also the role it played in controlling the crowds at Rachprasong.

Seeing this unit out and about in flood waters might soften many Thai's stance against it and - by looser association - the wider army as a whole, as well as its other...errr...stakeholders.

As for karma in army units, okay, maybe there is none.

The Thai Army is not the total A hole that many would have believe it is. I am their No 1 falang supporter as they are the only institution in the country that has the Monarch, Thailand and the Thai people as their No 1 priority. Agreed that for toy spending and general (should that be General) money wasting they are no better at times than the rest of Thai's for fighting for trough feeding space.

I would rather that their role in the country's politics was non existent but when you have a police force, judical system, voting system and governance that is at the whim of the highest ฿฿฿ bidder then their role is acceptable.

Good post, 100% agreed.

[Skywalker69]

Nice to see that The Nation is determined to continue politicizing the floods.

Next, ...

More than half of you took the above as a criticism of the Army.

I was here in March :

media removed

The Thai military did a fine job then. Although I am not in BKK, everything I have heard from friends and seen here has shown that EVERYONE is doing their best in Bangkok, Army, Police, Gov't, & red shirts...

99% of all first hand reports I have seen coming from BKK have been positive news about people helping people in a really tough situation.

My criticism is not at all with the Army, but with The Nation. This editorial pretends to be about the Army. But the article just uses the praise for the military as cover for another "Nation Flame" against the govt, PTP, and the red shirts.

So once again, Nice to see that The Nation is determined to continue politicizing the floods.

Next, ...

Interesting that you are (not) in Bangkok and see (from where you are) the police doing their best. I drive around Bangkok every day and I have yet to see a policeman with wet feet

They are having a good time in Pattaya!

[lujanit]

In the few times I have been able to get out of our flooded home the most visible people out there helping are the army. I live in the MahaSawat Suan Pak area and the army trucks are always taking people through the flood waters.

Also today we came back on Maha Sawat today and a kind man from the BMA sewerage dept gave us a lift in his boat. There are many people out there who just help for the sake of helping. I thank them all.

[DocN]

The army are just doing their job seems to be condemning with faint praise, overlooking that they are doing their job with diligence and competence lacking in many of the others involved.

Will those only willing to concede that they are doing their job, also admit that removing armed terrorists from the capital was also "only doing their job"?

Ok...I'll take the bait.

a) "overlooking that they are doing their job with diligence and competence" - my dentist does the same!

"diligence and competence lacking in many of the others involved." - agreed

c) "Will those only willing to concede that they are doing their job, also admit that removing armed terrorists from the capital was also "only doing their job"? Unfortunately, if you are a soldier, that might also be part of the job. And please: as long as it not 100% clear, please keep in mind that there is still a good chance, that "terrorists" were probably not the only people "removed".

But still...and again....: they are doing a GOOD JOB!

Actually, I agree with you DocN. I EXPECT that the Army will do their jobs and don't need to be praised for doing so. I do understand people are grateful for that and who would want to dissuade them from showing or speaking of their gratitude. What I'm wondering DocN, is do you agree that the POLICE are doing their job? TLansford a few posts up says they are. Frankly, I've never seen the police EVER do their job and when there's an important job to do, such as now, they are never to be found, ever. There's simply no money in it for them. Has that been your experience as well? I'm giving you the chance to call me a liar here.

The simple answer is "no". Which doesn't mean that there aren't some who do. I am generally no friend of generalisations. But comparing the BIB with the Army...wooooooho...Army wins big time!

[DocN]

The army are just doing their job seems to be condemning with faint praise, overlooking that they are doing their job with diligence and competence lacking in many of the others involved.

Will those only willing to concede that they are doing their job, also admit that removing armed terrorists from the capital was also "only doing their job"?

Ok...I'll take the bait.

a) "overlooking that they are doing their job with diligence and competence" - my dentist does the same!

"diligence and competence lacking in many of the others involved." - agreed

c) "Will those only willing to concede that they are doing their job, also admit that removing armed terrorists from the capital was also "only doing their job"? Unfortunately, if you are a soldier, that might also be part of the job. And please: as long as it not 100% clear, please keep in mind that there is still a good chance, that "terrorists" were probably not the only people "removed".

But still...and again....: they are doing a GOOD JOB!

you're a good sport Doc. We love you buddy !

I do my best!

[SteeleJoe]

As a point of historical interest the police was at one time much more politically powerful than it is now.I think I'm right in saying in the 1950's/1960's it had its own tanks and jet fighters (courtesy the CIA)!

This is mostly correct.

They had armor and aircraft but I don't know about jet fighters. As far as I recall it was more like helicopters, transport or spotter aircraft and so on. And it was generally not the municipal police per se that the CIA was training and arming but rather various paramilitary units that were part of the RTP. But indeed the RTP at one time in many respects rivaled the Army for power (but only thanks to successive Army generals who controlled the country) and occasionally clashed -- even in armed conflict -- over the respective shares of spoils that go with that (prominent among them the massive opium trade they were all so heavily involved in)

(I could and perhaps should be more precise but this is quite a digression and so I'm not going to put in that effort for a threadjack).

[rogerdee123]

As a point of historical interest the police was at one time much more politically powerful than it is now.I think I'm right in saying in the 1950's/1960's it had its own tanks and jet fighters (courtesy the CIA)!

This is mostly correct.

They had armor and aircraft but I don't know about jet fighters. As far as I recall it was more like helicopters, transport or spotter aircraft and so on. And it was generally not the municipal police per se that the CIA was training and arming but rather various paramilitary units that were part of the RTP. But indeed the RTP at one time in many respects rivaled the Army for power (but only thanks to successive Army generals who controlled the country) and occasionally clashed -- even in armed conflict -- over the respective shares of spoils that go with that (prominent among them the massive opium trade they were all so heavily involved in)

(I could and perhaps should be more precise but this is quite a digression and so I'm not going to put in that effort for a threadjack).

I think you may be talking about the "border police". not same same present breed of police .... different

Edited November 11, 2011 by rogerdee123

[waza]

As a point of historical interest the police was at one time much more politically powerful than it is now.I think I'm right in saying in the 1950's/1960's it had its own tanks and jet fighters (courtesy the CIA)!

This is mostly correct.

They had armor and aircraft but I don't know about jet fighters. As far as I recall it was more like helicopters, transport or spotter aircraft and so on. And it was generally not the municipal police per se that the CIA was training and arming but rather various paramilitary units that were part of the RTP. But indeed the RTP at one time in many respects rivaled the Army for power (but only thanks to successive Army generals who controlled the country) and occasionally clashed -- even in armed conflict -- over the respective shares of spoils that go with that (prominent among them the massive opium trade they were all so heavily involved in)

(I could and perhaps should be more precise but this is quite a digression and so I'm not going to put in that effort for a threadjack).

I think you may be talking about the "border police". not same same present breed of police .... different

I think you guys mean the......................

Border Patrol Police (Thai: ตำรวจตระเวณชายแดน) is a Thai paramilitary force responsible for border security and Counter-insurgency..................The Thai Border Patrol Police was organized in the 1950s with assistance from the United States Central Intelligence Agency. Although technically part of the Royal Thai Police, the BPP has always enjoyed a great deal of autonomy within the national headquarters as well as in its multifaceted field operations. The royal family was a principal patron of the organization. This traditional relationship benefited both the palace and its paramilitary protectors. Many BPP commanders were former army officers...My link

[SteeleJoe]

As a point of historical interest the police was at one time much more politically powerful than it is now.I think I'm right in saying in the 1950's/1960's it had its own tanks and jet fighters (courtesy the CIA)!

This is mostly correct.

They had armor and aircraft but I don't know about jet fighters. As far as I recall it was more like helicopters, transport or spotter aircraft and so on. And it was generally not the municipal police per se that the CIA was training and arming but rather various paramilitary units that were part of the RTP. But indeed the RTP at one time in many respects rivaled the Army for power (but only thanks to successive Army generals who controlled the country) and occasionally clashed -- even in armed conflict -- over the respective shares of spoils that go with that (prominent among them the massive opium trade they were all so heavily involved in)

(I could and perhaps should be more precise but this is quite a digression and so I'm not going to put in that effort for a threadjack).

I think you may be talking about the "border police". not same same present breed of police .... different

Them among others. And no, not the municipal police of today -- as I already pointed out.

EDIT to ADD: I was primarily referring to the RTP under Phao.

Edited November 11, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[rogerdee123]

As a point of historical interest the police was at one time much more politically powerful than it is now.I think I'm right in saying in the 1950's/1960's it had its own tanks and jet fighters (courtesy the CIA)!

This is mostly correct.

They had armor and aircraft but I don't know about jet fighters. As far as I recall it was more like helicopters, transport or spotter aircraft and so on. And it was generally not the municipal police per se that the CIA was training and arming but rather various paramilitary units that were part of the RTP. But indeed the RTP at one time in many respects rivaled the Army for power (but only thanks to successive Army generals who controlled the country) and occasionally clashed -- even in armed conflict -- over the respective shares of spoils that go with that (prominent among them the massive opium trade they were all so heavily involved in)

(I could and perhaps should be more precise but this is quite a digression and so I'm not going to put in that effort for a threadjack).

I think you may be talking about the "border police". not same same present breed of police .... different

Them among others. And no, not the municipal police of today -- as I already pointed out.

yep .. we're on the same page SteelJoe

[Skywalker69]

Nice to see that The Nation is determined to continue politicizing the floods.

Next, ...

More than half of you took the above as a criticism of the Army.

I was here in March :

The Thai military did a fine job then. Although I am not in BKK, everything I have heard from friends and seen here has shown that EVERYONE is doing their best in Bangkok, Army, Police, Gov't, & red shirts...

99% of all first hand reports I have seen coming from BKK have been positive news about people helping people in a really tough situation.

My criticism is not at all with the Army, but with The Nation. This editorial pretends to be about the Army. But the article just uses the praise for the military as cover for another "Nation Flame" against the govt, PTP, and the red shirts.

So once again, Nice to see that The Nation is determined to continue politicizing the floods.

Next, ...

No NOT everyone is doing their best. Police is hiding....

Here in our Soi the Police boss run to Pattaya and 3 policemen stay in his house taking care of it, instead of helping people.

Red Shirts: yes we saw it....helping only red shirt, donations get labeled with "With Love from Khun Thaksin".

Here in my village which is for sure mostly not red:

The Army came.

The Army provided shuttle service

Once 2 young guys from the Democrats came and handed over donations: neither the boat, nor the donations nor anything else indicated that they are from the Democrats. My wife didn't recognize it until the neighbors did.

No police

No red shirts

I think Bangkok helped with pumps (but not sure on that).

All my staff I was in contact is reporting similar things. No one has seen the police help.

Thank you for sharing, reports like yours makes me want to puke

1. How would the situation be like if we diden´t have the Army?

2. Were are the Red Shirt "Big mouth" leaders?

Good luck to you.

[metisdead]

Off topic post removed.

[Gonsalviz]

Considering how ineffectual the government has been in handling the floods, the Army has in comparison done much better in this crisis. The Thai Army isn't there just for coups only. In this case, they genuinely are there to help the people.

I'm kind of thinking the military is helping the people when they do have coups. Just that the people don't realize it.

[Gonsalviz]

Nice to see that The Nation is determined to continue politicizing the floods.

Next, ...

I know it must be such a bummer waiting for some news that would praise the government right? Might as well wait for pigs to fly. I know.. how about we write some praises for the government ourselves?? I'll start...

...

...

...

the boats did a helluva good job! the distribution of goods from Don Muang was excellent!.. clear concise message to the people so that they knew what to expect!

What else did I miss? Please do fill in... since Nation keeps writing garbage, we need to tell the truth.

Seems to me the farang are the bigger complainers.

[MikeyIdea]

Nice to see that The Nation is determined to continue politicizing the floods.

Next, ...

More than half of you took the above as a criticism of the Army.

I was here in March :

media removed

The Thai military did a fine job then. Although I am not in BKK, everything I have heard from friends and seen here has shown that EVERYONE is doing their best in Bangkok, Army, Police, Gov't, & red shirts...

99% of all first hand reports I have seen coming from BKK have been positive news about people helping people in a really tough situation.

My criticism is not at all with the Army, but with The Nation. This editorial pretends to be about the Army. But the article just uses the praise for the military as cover for another "Nation Flame" against the govt, PTP, and the red shirts.

So once again, Nice to see that The Nation is determined to continue politicizing the floods.

Next, ...

Interesting that you are (not) in Bangkok and see (from where you are) the police doing their best. I drive around Bangkok every day and I have yet to see a policeman with wet feet

They are having a good time in Pattaya!

I took my daughter to Loei over the weekend and decided to pass many flooded areas on the way - good education for a little girl.

Sai Asia is generally fine but number 1 to Saraburi is still pretty heavily flooded in some areas, 20 cm outbound, 50 cm inbound. Bangkok - Saraburi took 5.5. hours arriving Saraburi 1:30 AM.

The police were standing by their tradition that keeping their feet dry is more important than helping the public and were nowhere to be seen... Soldiers and volunteers were though, and the public of course

[h90]

Nice to see that The Nation is determined to continue politicizing the floods.

Next, ...

More than half of you took the above as a criticism of the Army.

I was here in March :

The Thai military did a fine job then. Although I am not in BKK, everything I have heard from friends and seen here has shown that EVERYONE is doing their best in Bangkok, Army, Police, Gov't, & red shirts...

99% of all first hand reports I have seen coming from BKK have been positive news about people helping people in a really tough situation.

My criticism is not at all with the Army, but with The Nation. This editorial pretends to be about the Army. But the article just uses the praise for the military as cover for another "Nation Flame" against the govt, PTP, and the red shirts.

So once again, Nice to see that The Nation is determined to continue politicizing the floods.

Next, ...

No NOT everyone is doing their best. Police is hiding....

Here in our Soi the Police boss run to Pattaya and 3 policemen stay in his house taking care of it, instead of helping people.

Red Shirts: yes we saw it....helping only red shirt, donations get labeled with "With Love from Khun Thaksin".

Here in my village which is for sure mostly not red:

The Army came.

The Army provided shuttle service

Once 2 young guys from the Democrats came and handed over donations: neither the boat, nor the donations nor anything else indicated that they are from the Democrats. My wife didn't recognize it until the neighbors did.

No police

No red shirts

I think Bangkok helped with pumps (but not sure on that).

All my staff I was in contact is reporting similar things. No one has seen the police help.

Thank you for sharing, reports like yours makes me want to puke

1. How would the situation be like if we diden´t have the Army?

2. Were are the Red Shirt "Big mouth" leaders?

Good luck to you.

Thanks....now over 2 weeks and we are still pumping

But the stock on beer is zero.....

[geriatrickid]

The Police have been deployed. I know some people do not want to hear about it, but they are guarding infrastructure, and damaged industrial estates as well as high target lcoations. One of the reasons why there has not been widescale looting is because the police are there, often in civilian clothing.

I know some will not believe me, but here are some examples;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/8859689/Thailand-floods-Bangkok-police-sent-to-guard-sluice-gates-and-dykes.html

Ministry of Tourism and Sports has ordered police escorts for tourists travelling to Swampy. Tourist police were ordered to work with Airports of Thailand in allocating special rest areas and facilitate late check-ins, flight changes and other issues that could be faced along the way. Immigration has also been alerted to provide a fast-track service for departing passengers. (A great deal of effort was directed to ensure that farang visitors would be assisted).

http://www.thaitravelnews.net/thailand-floods/bangkok-floods-tourism-ministry-orders-police-escorts-foreign-tourirsts/

There is a thread devoted to the discussion

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/511354-thai-police-eye-bad-flood-spots-lawbreakers/page__view__findpost__p__4835706

I know it is hard to believe but the police were tasked with assisting the transport of key relief workers to their jobs and then protecting those workers. They have also been deployed to manage traffic. Also, some officers have left their posts Similar situation as what occurred following hurricane Katrina. At their salaries, they aren't going to sacriifice their families.

The army has the advantage of being able to draw upon a diverse personnel base of hundreds of thousands. The troops deployed are for the most part not from flood ravaged areas. The police cannot be transferred in, since many parts of the country have a shortage of personnel. An example of this is Phuket,

[lannarebirth]

Mr Amsterdam, is that you?

[Cnxforever]

Considering how ineffectual the government has been in handling the floods, the Army has in comparison done much better in this crisis. The Thai Army isn't there just for coups only. In this case, they genuinely are there to help the people.

yes of course - and who do you think is responsible for the deforestation that has been going on for sheer greed here for the last 70 years?

Which is the root cause for all these problems now.

Upps...yes it's the men in uniform....and when they had cut and sold almost all the tropical hardwood in Thailand and where caught they resorted to go on cutting and driving the logs over to Burma, Laos, Cambodia and back - and pretended it was imported.

What do you think the Thai army is? Here to help the people or defend the country? 5555555...

They think they are above the law - corrupt to the core - the only interest they have is power and money, money , money - nothing else!

[Buchholz]

Considering how ineffectual the government has been in handling the floods, the Army has in comparison done much better in this crisis. The Thai Army isn't there just for coups only. In this case, they genuinely are there to help the people.

yes of course - and who do you think is responsible for the deforestation that has been going on for sheer greed here for the last 70 years?

Which is the root cause for all these problems now.

Upps...yes it's the men in uniform....and when they had cut and sold almost all the tropical hardwood in Thailand and where caught they resorted to go on cutting and driving the logs over to Burma, Laos, Cambodia and back - and pretended it was imported.

What do you think the Thai army is? Here to help the people or defend the country? 5555555...

They think they are above the law - corrupt to the core - the only interest they have is power and money, money , money - nothing else!

and yet... despite those attributes you ascribe to them, they have much higher regard from the public than Yingluck's government.

What might wonder how best to describe the attributes of Yingluck's government as it is considered worst.

.

[rogerdee123]

Considering how ineffectual the government has been in handling the floods, the Army has in comparison done much better in this crisis. The Thai Army isn't there just for coups only. In this case, they genuinely are there to help the people.

yes of course - and who do you think is responsible for the deforestation that has been going on for sheer greed here for the last 70 years?

Which is the root cause for all these problems now.

Upps...yes it's the men in uniform....and when they had cut and sold almost all the tropical hardwood in Thailand and where caught they resorted to go on cutting and driving the logs over to Burma, Laos, Cambodia and back - and pretended it was imported.

What do you think the Thai army is? Here to help the people or defend the country? 5555555...

They think they are above the law - corrupt to the core - the only interest they have is power and money, money , money - nothing else!

and yet... despite those attributes you ascribe to them, they have much higher regard from the public than Yingluck's government.

What might wonder how best to describe the attributes of Yingluck's government as it is considered worst.

.

+1 well said Buchholz