Rats Feeding On Trash Increase Disease Threat In Flooded Bangkok

[bitterbatter]

A Beautiful Solution to an Ugly Situation

(Someone please translate to Thai and pass this on to the proper Authorities and/or the people)

I decided to make this a seperate thread. Any constructive commentary is welcome http://www.thaivisa....-waste-disease/

Rooftop Farming: Garbage and Excrement technology in cities are out-dated systems. Separate the food from the real trash, create a composting area. This will attract rats to an your roof, and their urine can either be captured in the runoff or the compost container itself. A good composting system generates a lot of heat with will kill any pathogens within any excrement or urine.

Some Great examples and resources for Rooftop and Vertical Farming integration for Cities

http://thinkprogress...ming-the-plant/

http://journeytofore...garden_con.html

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Roof_garden

http://www.cityfarme...ubrooftops.html

A more dangerous health problem is Septic Tanks. Bangkok does not use large waste facilities and sewage pipes. Buildings rely on septic systems which must be regularly pumped out, but currently cannot be touched in flooded areas. Nonetheless- People are continuing to use toilets during this crisis and I guarantee that septic systems are leaking into the floodwater. Flush toilets increase the potential for pathogens and disease, because by mixing so much water with the crap, then the natural self heating chemical reaction that could kill any pathogens is cooled down. The addition of constant floodwater guarantees this.

The alternative solution to toilets?

This is a huge huge problem in modern city designs that isn't talked about. But We really must stop being so terrified of our own Sh#t. The solution may sound disgusting, but the results are actually beautiful, and if handled right, it really isn't that gross. I know that this probably won't happen, but the solution is to add it to the composting. Using bucket with lids , a dry toilet can be created. Keep separate your urine from the poo and this will decrease the smell dramatically. have some leaves, or other green mulch to add on top when you are finished. Urine contains far less pathogens, and can be flushed down toilets with far less risk. If you are scared of the soil created from composting human crap, use this particular dirt created for your ornamental plants and trees, instead of your food garden. This is surely a far worse problem then the rat urine problem

Here is how to compost with simple garbage cans: ( copied from http://thinkprogress...ming-the-plant/)

Garbage can with airstack If you're using a commercial garbage can, make sure it has a minimum base diameter of 38 centimetres (15 inches). If making your own square container, its base should be a minimum of 1 metres sq. (1.25 yards sq.). Both types of composter require an unobstructed height of 85 to 105 cm (34 to 42 in). Drainage There should be a minimum of 4 holes, 5 cm (2 in) apart, in the bottom of the container. Start your compost pile 7 to 15 cm (3 to 6 in) up from the bottom of the bin to allow for sufficient air circulation and drainage. This can be done by building a "false bottom".

Place a heavy gauge screen (1/2 inch hardware cloth) on top of blocks placed inside the unit. Add a 1/2-cm (1/4-in) layer of newspaper to absorb liquid. You can also use a layer of sticks and twigs.

Remember to always keep the drain holes clear of obstructions. Note: Hardware cloth is galvanized wire mesh in various sizes and is available at most hardware stores. Aeration You will also need an "airstack" of approximately 12 cm (5 in) in diameter, leading from the false bottom up through the top of the container.

Commercial airstacks can be purchased at gardening centres or you can create your own with a piece of plastic plumber's pipe or weeping tile. There should be holes drilled all the way down the sides of the pipe or tile. A roll of hardware cloth or a bundle of sticks can also be placed in the centre of the container as an alternative. A hole must be cut in the lid of the composter for the airstack to fit through. It should be a snug fit to help prevent insects and other pests from entering your composter.

For extra protection from pests cap the airstack with some fine mesh. Set-up Place your composter in a sunny area if possible. To ensure there is enough air circulation around the composter, set it approximately 30 cm (12 in) away from any walls. Also make sure the container is raised 5 to 10 cm (2 to 4 in) above the ground and a tray is placed underneath to catch any liquid that may drain out.

Adding materials You can use the same materials for apartment composting as you would for regular outdoor composting (see factsheet entitled Materials to Compost for a detailed list). Although this type of composting can accommodate yard waste, it is primarily for household kitchen and plant waste. All materials should be as small as possible and well-mixed (use a variety of materials).

When putting in fresh kitchen waste always bury the food into the pile and add some leaves or soil on top to help control insects and odours.

Helpful hints

* For every 13 cm (5 in) of organic material, add 2.5 cm (1 in) of garden soil or finished compost.

* The pile should always be as moist as a well-wrung sponge.

* It is a good idea to stockpile some fall leaves to add to your pile all year round.

* Make sure your container has a tight-fitting lid.

Vermicomposting Vermicomposting, or composting with worms, is another way for apartment dwellers to compost.

A worm bin can be set up indoors or can be insulated to stay outside on a balcony. Community composting By getting together with other residents and staff in your building or community garden, it is possible to establish a single backyard composter or a larger 3-bin composter on your grounds. If you have a rooftop, consider placing a composting unit there. Some Great examples of Rooftop and Vertical Farming integration for Cities

Edited November 11, 2011 by bitterbatter

[noitom]

It's a catastrophe that so much time has elapsed since the early indication of massive flood disaster were/could have been identified, maybe two months ago or more. It's impossible to remember how many letters to The Nation and The Bangkok Post and posts on this and other sites that I did alerting to disease, contamination , Leptospirosis, Cholera, Malaria, Dengue, Typhoid and others, and the risk of garbage and rats and their urine. Short of a few posts on Thaivisa noting "disease" as a threat, it's a shame that the Thai English newspapers and other posts didn't strike a note of caution with the powers to be. It's incredible that no one in the government, press , or private industry took the initiative on the disease preparations, risk, and education for months and weeks despite numerous letters and posts. Here is an example of a previously posted video three weeks ago highlighting the Bangkok rat problem associated with flooding - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP87SETbTIg . All of these diseases are a very serious threat to Thailand. The disease crisis in Thailand and especially Bangkok will dwarf the inconvenience and hardship of the water and dislocation.

[OzMick]

" We don't want the rats to walk around finding food " -- don't be silly, they've got boats now.... And, just where did all these rats suddenly appear from ? Of course, they weren't there before, were they ?

Rats eating trash will not increase disease threat in Bangkok. What did the writer think the rats ate before? Caviar perhaps?

THe real issue, as another correspondent pointed out, is water borne disease (cholera being the really serious one). Leptospirosis could be an issue if the same water stays around for a long time, allowing it to be infected by rats but also other animals (including dogs and many other animals that also carry leptospirosis).

Hunger will also become an issue as donation fatigue, supply chains and means of payment wither away. With hunger, thirst and a degredation of the means of boiling water and cooking food thoroughly, disease naturally rises. One is more likely to drink suspect water, east suspect food and not boil water (because fuel has run out) in crisis situations, such as massive flooding.

In very serious crises, rats can become a resource - it kept many a family alive during conflict situations throughout the world as long as they had the means to cook the meat.

What is really needed is a concerted effort to deal with the crisis and prevent it from becoming a catastrophy. Organizing food supply and clean water solutions, transport for those who need it and prompt medical care. What we don't need is more scarce resources going on rat hunts. Yes you will see more rats in exposed areas during floods because their usual hiding places are not available to them because they are submerged. But many of them succumb to the floods, as the photo under the misleading headline suggests (a photo of drowned rats!)

Tom Yam Nu with sewerage flavoured water - yum yum.

[bitterbatter]

A Beautiful Solution to an Ugly Situation

[OzMick]

It's nice to see that someone has finally got the promised B300/day.

[Mosha]

Wasn't it just 2 weeks or so ago, they were playing down health risks. If Yingluck really is surrounded by the best qualified people in PTP. It doesn't say much about the rest.

[Markaew]

im sick of this government already all they do is give conflicting information there's a teenager in charge of a country of children or thats the way it has felt to me over the last six years

they say the water is safe they say dont worry no need to panic then the next minute they give evacuation orders why dont they have any clear leadership and the people of thialand are made

to suffer due to greedy self serving mps with no real interest in helping any one but there bank accounts

taksin has not done anything not one single thing since this flood started no tv address no donation of funds not so much as a kind word until this happened all this government did

was try to insure his return and what do the people get for there trust and sacrifice nothing no 300 bht minimum pay no 15.000 bht for a graduate not that for one second i ever thought they would

receive it

i live in the north of thialand i spent a clp of days driving around helping people in my truck move there belongings to dry ground i never saw one single army truck or the police assisting

any one the only people that seemed to help was the expat community and normal thai people in a way it was a good thing to see people pulling together but with no help

from the government services at all my thia friends that put there faith in this government feel confused let down and angry this is or was a red shirt strong hold

but im telling you now taksin and your clone you are losing your grip step aside let someone with more morales and less ego take over

it will take more than a photo of you handing out aid to water logged thais to regain the peoples faith you have lost with your weak handling of this disaster

WAIT a minute! You've been reading my posts! That is what I have been saying about this gov for months.

That's why my posts get deleted so much. No Thai bashing here.

[Markaew]

the water might actually give Bangkok a wash, it sure needed it last time I was there.

No. Smelled like wet dog before. Worse now.

[sfbandung]

It's nice to see that someone has finally got the promised B300/day.

I noticed that too. She kept her promise!

[sfbandung]

"Rats Feeding on Trash Increase Disease Threat"

If the politicians started eating the rats it would be "Trash Feeding on Rats ..."

[JohnAllan]

Rats walking around looking for food? They're always looking for food. One of the problems with the buddhist attitude to animals, an example being recent sight of a mouse in Tesco Lotus, Rama IV, and staff deciding it should be left to run around. Mice one can live with, if not in a food store. But rats? Presumably yet another example of Thais' abysmal knowledge of history, and the plague?

And with Bangkok overrun with them, exacerbated by the Thais' cavalier approach to trash disposal and the BMA's abysmal failure to enforce its own laws on disposal, only now do the authorities decide they need to deal with one half of the problem . . .

Edited November 11, 2011 by JohnAllan

[tropo]

Great information............caution treading on broken glass may hurt feet.

Treading on broken glass is a very serious risk in dirty water. I image the number of foot and leg injuries from people wading in knee/waist deep murky water is very high.

[tropo]

- http://www.youtube.c...h?v=oP87SETbTIg .

That video was uploaded in April 2009.

Did anyone feel sorry for the rats who have also lost their homes?

Some comments on the YouTube video:

oh, they look so pitty they need help too

poor rats sad

I love how they are like, dude. what are you looking at. We are homeless just like you.

[scorecard]

Rats walking around looking for food? They're always looking for food. One of the problems with the buddhist attitude to animals, an example being recent sight of a mouse in Tesco Lotus, Rama IV, and staff deciding it should be left to run around. Mice one can live with, if not in a food store. But rats? Presumably yet another example of Thais' abysmal knowledge of history, and the plague?

And with Bangkok overrun with them, exacerbated by the Thais' cavalier approach to trash disposal and the BMA's abysmal failure to enforce its own laws on disposal, only now do the authorities decide they need to deal with one half of the problem . . .

And someone in the government should have been raising this possibility weeks ago. Nothing.

Are you surprised? The paymaster surrounded his clone little sister with totally incompetent people who have tunnel vision - they are interested in one thing only - when do they get their turn at the feeding trough?

[puntmeister]

They should put a one baht bounty on rats.

In 2010 there was a plague of rats in Burma (BBC), due to the seeding of bamboo forrests, so the the junta put a cash reward for each rat tail delivered .

Bounty for rats - its really not a bad idea.

The 300 baht/day for trash collection has been the most sensiblet policy I've seen thusfar.

There's no shortage of able-bodied men (and women) capable of mobilizing to mitigate the severity of this disaster (especially considering the massive temporary layoffs from all the flooded factoris) - they just need to be led, and compensated.

[scorecard]

It's a catastrophe that so much time has elapsed since the early indication of massive flood disaster were/could have been identified, maybe two months ago or more. It's impossible to remember how many letters to The Nation and The Bangkok Post and posts on this and other sites that I did alerting to disease, contamination , Leptospirosis, Cholera, Malaria, Dengue, Typhoid and others, and the risk of garbage and rats and their urine. Short of a few posts on Thaivisa noting "disease" as a threat, it's a shame that the Thai English newspapers and other posts didn't strike a note of caution with the powers to be. It's incredible that no one in the government, press , or private industry took the initiative on the disease preparations, risk, and education for months and weeks despite numerous letters and posts. Here is an example of a previously posted video three weeks ago highlighting the Bangkok rat problem associated with flooding - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP87SETbTIg . All of these diseases are a very serious threat to Thailand. The disease crisis in Thailand and especially Bangkok will dwarf the inconvenience and hardship of the water and dislocation.

I wonder if the Thai Health Ministry is ensuring there is a sufficient stock pile of appropriate medicines in case there is a serious disease situation?

[puntmeister]

The flood itself has caused major damage and upset lives and businesses. But it could very well be possible that the "worst" is yet to come in the form of disease, illness and death from the polluted waters that have swept over everything. I've seen photos of kids out swimming and playing in the flood waters and can only wonder how many of them will soon be sick from this, and how many will die. I have a feeling the medical resources of Thailand are going to be seriously tested in the coming weeks and months.

I too have marvelled as the kids play in shi**y water whilst the parents smile on oblivious, shoudlt the govt have a big campaign, stay out of the water when possible etc

Sorry stupid me better to have a good photo op, here filthy water urchin have some precooked meat ( which will kill you anyway) and dont forget to wai me till your head goes underwater as you recieve this gift from "Uncle" or is it "Auntie"

Yes, its unfortunate - Thais do not make much of an effort to prevent the spread of communicable diseases. I can't tell you how many times I've cringed while watching Thais suffering from colds/flus sharing their food/beverages (many times trying to share with me, even...).

Thing is - its not out of ignorance. They do know about bacteria and viruses, and they do know how such diseases spread. For whatever reason, though, they don't seem to make even the most basic of efforts to mitigate their spread.

I don't mean this to be "thai bashing" - but I draw the line of tolerance at the spread of disease.

[siamerican]

Let me get this straight, the government is "paying residents to clean up the trash.." and at the same time, the government has (unofficially) ordered unaffected provinces' provincial governments, like Phuket for instance, to help with the relief effort by sending tens of thousands of plastic/styrofoam food containers by plane in addition to the tens of thousands of plastic water bottles... all packed in -- you guessed it -- plastic bags. The shit that's not burnt only gets thrown into the current = This is modern Thailand = No sympathy from the environment come next year !

[puntmeister]

"We don't want the rats to walk around finding food," said Porntep Siriwanarangsun

Is he serious? Why are there so many rats in the first place? There is always food discarded all over BKK.

And rats don't walk, they scurry.

From my anecdotal experience, rat infestation is actually worse in most American cities than in Thai cities. In part, this may be due to all the free-roaming street dogs. A bit of a trade-off: rats, or stray dogs.

In any event, rat populations can explode, in fairly short order, given the right conditions. Some food/trash is always gonna be strewn around Bangkok - but, one has to admit, the volumes are exponentially worse due to the flooding, creating ideal conditions for rat breeding.

[bipper]

"We don't want the rats to walk around finding food,"

Flooding can't be too severe if the rats can walk through it.

Rats swim genius...............dear God do we really need to read this drivel. Nothing of interest here but a bunch of useless farangs with nothing to do all day but write crap on this site. At least the Government do it on purpose.

[meatboy]

i dont think people realise the seriousness of what this could lead to,i saw a photo yesterday of food being sold on tables that were standing in water,people throwing water into each others face,look at all the floats with candles on that were floated onto flooded streets,drastic action should have been implamented long ago as its been said but nobody is taking the responsibility,we all know any negative reporting is going to hit the tourist trade but by not doing anything will only make it worse.we all see every year after year the diseases in countries that have floods where sanitary problems arise its about time they let in some experts to advise the thai goverment before its to late.

[anterian]

There are no rats in my area, I guess this might be connected to the fact that I have 9 cats

[SteeleJoe]

the water might actually give Bangkok a wash, it sure needed it last time I was there.

Ugly.

I hope the last time you were here will be the last time you are here.

Edited November 11, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[bdenner]

The NEWS has just reached the locals up here in Isaan, as they don't mind a bit of BBQ'd Rat got their knives and forks at the ready.

[OzMick]

"We don't want the rats to walk around finding food,"

Flooding can't be too severe if the rats can walk through it.

Rats swim genius...............dear God do we really need to read this drivel. Nothing of interest here but a bunch of useless farangs with nothing to do all day but write crap on this site. At least the Government do it on purpose.

Good on you, Lightning, you picked up that little inconsistency I was trying to point out. Now if you think real hard, you will work out that " a bunch of useless farangs with nothing to do all day but write crap" most certainly includes you.

[OzMick]

There are no rats in my area, I guess this might be connected to the fact that I have 9 cats

We don't have rats either. We had a neighbour who had more than 9 cats, but I bought a big-ish dog and next door bought a Dachsund-ish cross, and now we don't have cats either.

[harryfrompattaya]

im sick of this government already all they do is give conflicting information there's a teenager in charge of a country of children or thats the way it has felt to me over the last six years

they say the water is safe they say dont worry no need to panic then the next minute they give evacuation orders why dont they have any clear leadership and the people of thialand are made

to suffer due to greedy self serving mps with no real interest in helping any one but there bank accounts

taksin has not done anything not one single thing since this flood started no tv address no donation of funds not so much as a kind word until this happened all this government did

was try to insure his return and what do the people get for there trust and sacrifice nothing no 300 bht minimum pay no 15.000 bht for a graduate not that for one second i ever thought they would

receive it

i live in the north of thialand i spent a clp of days driving around helping people in my truck move there belongings to dry ground i never saw one single army truck or the police assisting

any one the only people that seemed to help was the expat community and normal thai people in a way it was a good thing to see people pulling together but with no help

from the government services at all my thia friends that put there faith in this government feel confused let down and angry this is or was a red shirt strong hold

but im telling you now taksin and your clone you are losing your grip step aside let someone with more morales and less ego take over

it will take more than a photo of you handing out aid to water logged thais to regain the peoples faith you have lost with your weak handling of this disaster

Take off those rose tinted spectacles and get real........... my good man, you thai basher you

It is a shame that a Thai Basher lives in Thailand. I wonder does this man work for a NGO and us American taxpayers are paying this hateful person

[TackyToo]

They should put a one baht bounty on rats.

So it's 31 Baht profit in the delicatessen hawker stalls then? You seriously believe the rats would be properly disposed- don't you?

[SteeleJoe]

im sick of this government already all they do is give conflicting information there's a teenager in charge of a country of children or thats the way it has felt to me over the last six years

they say the water is safe they say dont worry no need to panic then the next minute they give evacuation orders why dont they have any clear leadership and the people of thialand are made

to suffer due to greedy self serving mps with no real interest in helping any one but there bank accounts

taksin has not done anything not one single thing since this flood started no tv address no donation of funds not so much as a kind word until this happened all this government did

was try to insure his return and what do the people get for there trust and sacrifice nothing no 300 bht minimum pay no 15.000 bht for a graduate not that for one second i ever thought they would

receive it

i live in the north of thialand i spent a clp of days driving around helping people in my truck move there belongings to dry ground i never saw one single army truck or the police assisting

any one the only people that seemed to help was the expat community and normal thai people in a way it was a good thing to see people pulling together but with no help

from the government services at all my thia friends that put there faith in this government feel confused let down and angry this is or was a red shirt strong hold

but im telling you now taksin and your clone you are losing your grip step aside let someone with more morales and less ego take over

it will take more than a photo of you handing out aid to water logged thais to regain the peoples faith you have lost with your weak handling of this disaster

Take off those rose tinted spectacles and get real........... my good man, you thai basher you

It is a shame that a Thai Basher lives in Thailand. I wonder does this man work for a NGO and us American taxpayers are paying this hateful person

What about criticizing the Thai government makes one a hateful person? (And even if he does work for an NGO, it's not necessarily getting any funding from the US government though admittedly some do despite their "non-governmental" status).

By the way, my guess is that travelmann was being ironic when calling him a Thai basher etc.

[siampolee]

I have it on good authority that the government are trying to secure the services of a well known rodent removal expert to assist in the upcoming clean up programme. However it seems as if an amnesty has to be promised to certain people before the contract can be signed.