Kasikorn Bank

[endure]

I've been using my card in ATMs in Chiang Mai to draw 10,000bt at a time over the past week. I've used Bangkok Bank for all withdrawals apart from one where I used Kasikorn instead. The BKK Bank withdrawals are costing around £206 per time. The one Kasikorn withdrawal cost £218! Beware!

[martin81]

I suppose you are using a foreign card.

When the ATM asks you if you want to accept the exchange rate they propose then press the NO button.

Then you will get your foreign banks exchange rate which is usually better.

[Tafia]

Also be aware different day = different rates...the rate you get today is not necessary the one you get tomorrow, the exchange rate is changing continually.

[CharlieH]

Best way to minimise costs is DONT use the ATM, go inside the bank and ask them to do it manually and you wont pay the 150 baht fee either.

Instead of getting 10k baht do a bigger withdrawal 25k and reduce the amount of times you need to do it.

[endure]

I suppose you are using a foreign card.

When the ATM asks you if you want to accept the exchange rate they propose then press the NO button.

Then you will get your foreign banks exchange rate which is usually better.

Is this a question that's unique to Kasikorn ATMs? Bkk Bank ATMs never ask me this question.

[endure]

Also be aware different day = different rates...the rate you get today is not necessary the one you get tomorrow, the exchange rate is changing continually.

Not by 5% in the space of 24 hours.

[endure]

Best way to minimise costs is DONT use the ATM, go inside the bank and ask them to do it manually and you wont pay the 150 baht fee either.

Instead of getting 10k baht do a bigger withdrawal 25k and reduce the amount of times you need to do it.

Do you need your passport to do this?

[elliss]

Instead of getting 10k baht do a bigger withdrawal 25k and reduce the amount of times you need to do it.

Do you need your passport to do this?

oh. yes you do .

:jap:

[endure]

Cheers

[martin81]

I suppose you are using a foreign card.

When the ATM asks you if you want to accept the exchange rate they propose then press the NO button.

Then you will get your foreign banks exchange rate which is usually better.

Is this a question that's unique to Kasikorn ATMs? Bkk Bank ATMs never ask me this question.

You are correct that Bangkok Bank does not ask this question. Kasikorn does. I am not sure about other banks.

[OriginalPoster]

I suppose you are using a foreign card.

When the ATM asks you if you want to accept the exchange rate they propose then press the NO button.

Then you will get your foreign banks exchange rate which is usually better.

Is this a question that's unique to Kasikorn ATMs? Bkk Bank ATMs never ask me this question.

You are correct that Bangkok Bank does not ask this question. Kasikorn does. I am not sure about other banks.

I've never seen a question like that when using a Kasikorn ATM, nor have their machines ever raped me on the exchange rate when using a foreign ATM card. It asks you to confirm that you'll accept the 150 baht fee, that's the only question that I've seen come up.

[OriginalPoster]

I've been using my card in ATMs in Chiang Mai to draw 10,000bt at a time over the past week. I've used Bangkok Bank for all withdrawals apart from one where I used Kasikorn instead. The BKK Bank withdrawals are costing around £206 per time. The one Kasikorn withdrawal cost £218! Beware!

Are you sure that the problem is being caused by Kasikorn and not by your bank in the UK? I've never had a problem with Kasikorn, and I use their ATM machines frequently.

[Bpuumike]

I've been using my card in ATMs in Chiang Mai to draw 10,000bt at a time over the past week. I've used Bangkok Bank for all withdrawals apart from one where I used Kasikorn instead. The BKK Bank withdrawals are costing around £206 per time. The one Kasikorn withdrawal cost £218! Beware!

Are you sure that the problem is being caused by Kasikorn and not by your bank in the UK? I've never had a problem with Kasikorn, and I use their ATM machines frequently.

Might be your UK bank. I use Kasikorn with a Barclays Visa but I understand Kasikorn is a Barclays' correspondent bank in Thailand. Having to go through yet another UK bank might add extra charges?

Having said that, I find Krungthai gives very slightly better rates for ATM withdrawals.

They're all out to get you.

[Tafia]

Also be aware different day = different rates...the rate you get today is not necessary the one you get tomorrow, the exchange rate is changing continually.

Not by 5% in the space of 24 hours.

Ah you never said it was within 24hours, could well be your home Bank charges

[Bob12345]

If you will be in Thailand for a longer time or will come back more often I can recommend you to open a local bank account.

This way you can transfer money from your foreign account to your local account and you just pay a few baht for each ATM withdraw you make.

Opening an account at a Thai bank is relatively these days, it just takes 20 minutes and a passport.

(on how to open a Thai bank account: http://stuckinthailand.com/thailand/how-to-opening-bank-account-thailand )

[martin81]

I've been using my card in ATMs in Chiang Mai to draw 10,000bt at a time over the past week. I've used Bangkok Bank for all withdrawals apart from one where I used Kasikorn instead. The BKK Bank withdrawals are costing around £206 per time. The one Kasikorn withdrawal cost £218! Beware!

Are you sure that the problem is being caused by Kasikorn and not by your bank in the UK? I've never had a problem with Kasikorn, and I use their ATM machines frequently.

Might be your UK bank. I use Kasikorn with a Barclays Visa but I understand Kasikorn is a Barclays' correspondent bank in Thailand. Having to go through yet another UK bank might add extra charges?

Having said that, I find Krungthai gives very slightly better rates for ATM withdrawals.

They're all out to get you.

I believe the problem is only with a mastercard not a VISA card. They call it Dynamic Currency Conversion and they rape you for around 5%. It happened to my wife as she got confused by all the questions.

[OriginalPoster]

I've been using my card in ATMs in Chiang Mai to draw 10,000bt at a time over the past week. I've used Bangkok Bank for all withdrawals apart from one where I used Kasikorn instead. The BKK Bank withdrawals are costing around £206 per time. The one Kasikorn withdrawal cost £218! Beware!

Are you sure that the problem is being caused by Kasikorn and not by your bank in the UK? I've never had a problem with Kasikorn, and I use their ATM machines frequently.

Might be your UK bank. I use Kasikorn with a Barclays Visa but I understand Kasikorn is a Barclays' correspondent bank in Thailand. Having to go through yet another UK bank might add extra charges?

Having said that, I find Krungthai gives very slightly better rates for ATM withdrawals.

They're all out to get you.

I believe the problem is only with a mastercard not a VISA card. They call it Dynamic Currency Conversion and they rape you for around 5%. It happened to my wife as she got confused by all the questions.

That would explain it. With my ATM cards from the US, I get exactly the same exchange rate from all bank ATM's in Thailand because the exchange rate is being set by VISA and not by the local bank. Maybe it doesn't work that way for all foreign ATM cards though.

[Swiss1960]

I've been using my card in ATMs in Chiang Mai to draw 10,000bt at a time over the past week. I've used Bangkok Bank for all withdrawals apart from one where I used Kasikorn instead. The BKK Bank withdrawals are costing around £206 per time. The one Kasikorn withdrawal cost £218! Beware!

I believe the problem is only with a mastercard not a VISA card. They call it Dynamic Currency Conversion and they rape you for around 5%. It happened to my wife as she got confused by all the questions.

That would explain it. With my ATM cards from the US, I get exactly the same exchange rate from all bank ATM's in Thailand because the exchange rate is being set by VISA and not by the local bank. Maybe it doesn't work that way for all foreign ATM cards though.

DCC (Dynamic Currency Conversion) is one part of the exchange "problem": ATM providers (called Acquirers, mostly Banks) under international VISA / MC Rules and Regulations are allowed to offer the customer the possibility that the money withdrawal will be charged to his card issuing bank (Issuer) at a fixed exchange rate set by the ATM provider. Now it can be assumed that this rate is slightly higher than the rates that would be charged by VISA / MC. Offering DCC is the decision of the Acquirer and can be offered for all credit, pre-payed or debit cards of all brands (brand = VISA / MC / AMEX / JCB / Diners etc.)

If you as customer choose to not accept DCC, then VISA / MC will use their own exchange rate (chaging several times per day) to charge your Issuing bank for the money withdrawal.

Finally, your Issuer (card issuing bank) decides how they charge your card account. They can accept the VISA / MC exchange rates, they can choose their own exchange rates (i.e. bank internal rates) or the brand exchange rates (or a mix of both) and they can charge you additionally with currency exchange mark up (can be up to 2.5% ontop of the exchange rate of VISA / MC) and they can charge you with an additional withdrawal fee...

What does this mean? You must look into the charges that your bank will ask for when withdrawing foreign currency. You must ask them, what exchange rates they will take. And then you must calculate whether it is cheaper to accept DCC rates or not. And you must calculate the minimum withdrawal amout in your favour. If your issuing bank charges a 1% currency withdrawal rate with lets say a 5£ minimum, then all withdrawals below $500 will be in your disadvantage. Your bank will charge you 5£ minimum for every withdrawal and when withdrawing £250, this would be a 2% markup...

If the total add-on costs of your issuing bank exceed 2% of the withdrawal amount, then normally DCC will be cheaper. But what I do is to ask my bank about how much a 30'000 Baht withdrawal will cost me at the time of holiday and then I can compare that cost with the DCC amount offered by the ATM bank.

[garrfeild]

If I understand the OP, the £206 is the total including the 10.000 Baht, as that is about £200 in sterling. With respects not the cleverest way of converting sterling. You would be better off doing £1000 at a time. It's a shame you don't say which Uk bank card you are using. But it would be far better to open an account with a Thai bank , and if your Uk bank allow you to transfer international payments on-line, do it that way.

I'm with Nat West, They have just started doing online international payments. cost £20 to transfer sterling to Bank Ahyudyha and they give the best T/T rate compared to other Thai banks!

[Lifer]

I suppose you are using a foreign card.

When the ATM asks you if you want to accept the exchange rate they propose then press the NO button.

Then you will get your foreign banks exchange rate which is usually better.

Is this a question that's unique to Kasikorn ATMs? Bkk Bank ATM's never ask me this question.

I think there is some confusion. I've used most of the bank ATM machines and none have ask this question. I am wondering if the poster was referring to the question when you use a foreign card whether they want to accept the 150 Baht charge? BTW: Started using the Aeom machines to withdraw money from overseas. They do not charge the 150 Baht, which has been discussed in previous posts. Also go inside of SCB and use debit card to bring over $3000 at a time with no extra charges, other than my own CU in US. It takes just a few minutes and is great if you want a larger chunk than your ATM limit.

[tomallison]

I've been using my card in ATMs in Chiang Mai to draw 10,000bt at a time over the past week. I've used Bangkok Bank for all withdrawals apart from one where I used Kasikorn instead. The BKK Bank withdrawals are costing around £206 per time. The one Kasikorn withdrawal cost £218! Beware!

Are you sure that the problem is being caused by Kasikorn and not by your bank in the UK? I've never had a problem with Kasikorn, and I use their ATM machines frequently.

Might be your UK bank. I use Kasikorn with a Barclays Visa but I understand Kasikorn is a Barclays' correspondent bank in Thailand. Having to go through yet another UK bank might add extra charges?

Having said that, I find Krungthai gives very slightly better rates for ATM withdrawals.

They're all out to get you.

With the exception of Aeon ATMs (much too far away for many) you will always be 'got' when using a foreign card for making this type of witdrawel. As convenient as it may be.

[OriginalPoster]

I've been using my card in ATMs in Chiang Mai to draw 10,000bt at a time over the past week. I've used Bangkok Bank for all withdrawals apart from one where I used Kasikorn instead. The BKK Bank withdrawals are costing around £206 per time. The one Kasikorn withdrawal cost £218! Beware!

I believe the problem is only with a mastercard not a VISA card. They call it Dynamic Currency Conversion and they rape you for around 5%. It happened to my wife as she got confused by all the questions.

That would explain it. With my ATM cards from the US, I get exactly the same exchange rate from all bank ATM's in Thailand because the exchange rate is being set by VISA and not by the local bank. Maybe it doesn't work that way for all foreign ATM cards though.

DCC (Dynamic Currency Conversion) is one part of the exchange "problem": ATM providers (called Acquirers, mostly Banks) under international VISA / MC Rules and Regulations are allowed to offer the customer the possibility that the money withdrawal will be charged to his card issuing bank (Issuer) at a fixed exchange rate set by the ATM provider. Now it can be assumed that this rate is slightly higher than the rates that would be charged by VISA / MC. Offering DCC is the decision of the Acquirer and can be offered for all credit, pre-payed or debit cards of all brands (brand = VISA / MC / AMEX / JCB / Diners etc.)

If you as customer choose to not accept DCC, then VISA / MC will use their own exchange rate (chaging several times per day) to charge your Issuing bank for the money withdrawal.

Finally, your Issuer (card issuing bank) decides how they charge your card account. They can accept the VISA / MC exchange rates, they can choose their own exchange rates (i.e. bank internal rates) or the brand exchange rates (or a mix of both) and they can charge you additionally with currency exchange mark up (can be up to 2.5% ontop of the exchange rate of VISA / MC) and they can charge you with an additional withdrawal fee...

What does this mean? You must look into the charges that your bank will ask for when withdrawing foreign currency. You must ask them, what exchange rates they will take. And then you must calculate whether it is cheaper to accept DCC rates or not. And you must calculate the minimum withdrawal amout in your favour. If your issuing bank charges a 1% currency withdrawal rate with lets say a 5£ minimum, then all withdrawals below $500 will be in your disadvantage. Your bank will charge you 5£ minimum for every withdrawal and when withdrawing £250, this would be a 2% markup...

If the total add-on costs of your issuing bank exceed 2% of the withdrawal amount, then normally DCC will be cheaper. But what I do is to ask my bank about how much a 30'000 Baht withdrawal will cost me at the time of holiday and then I can compare that cost with the DCC amount offered by the ATM bank.

Are there actually cases where DCC is a good deal for the consumer? From what I've seen, it seems to be flagrant consumer fraud, something that no one would agree to if they knew what they were agreeing to. It should be illegal.

[mijan24]

Most banks I have found are happy to accept your Thai drivers licence as proof of identity. Your licence has your passport number on it and they record this as well as photocopy the licence which they normally ask you to sign.

No hassle really and they are covering their toot as well as yours :jap:

[martin81]

Are there actually cases where DCC is a good deal for the consumer? From what I've seen, it seems to be flagrant consumer fraud, something that no one would agree to if they knew what they were agreeing to. It should be illegal.

I think it is very rare that DCC is a good deal. I think the mark up of exchange rate is usually 4 to 5%.

I have also experienced DCC when paying for room in hotel Bangkok City Suite. I asked the hotel to cancel the charge they made in Euro and charge me in thai baht in stead and they did. This way I saved around 3 %.

[endure]

Thanks for the info about DCC. I think that's probably what it was. There was a screen which asked me if I was happy to accept the exchange rate and the only options were YES and NO. I needed the money at the time and didn't realise that answering NO would give me further options. For information I use a UK credit card which, at the moment, offers the cheapest means of drawing money from ATMs if you play the game right. I shall use it inside banks in future which will make it even cheaper!

[OriginalPoster]

Are there actually cases where DCC is a good deal for the consumer? From what I've seen, it seems to be flagrant consumer fraud, something that no one would agree to if they knew what they were agreeing to. It should be illegal.

I think it is very rare that DCC is a good deal. I think the mark up of exchange rate is usually 4 to 5%.

I have also experienced DCC when paying for room in hotel Bangkok City Suite. I asked the hotel to cancel the charge they made in Euro and charge me in thai baht in stead and they did. This way I saved around 3 %.

Both the Holiday Inn and Sheraton in BKK try to sneak DCC by you too. By default it comes up that way unless you tell them in advance that you want to pay in Thai baht. Apparently it's a matter of corporate policy of those hotel chains to train staff to push DCC.

[JimGant]

I think it is very rare that DCC is a good deal. I think the mark up of exchange rate is usually 4 to 5%.

I'd say it's never a good deal. It's sold as "you instantly get to see what it costs in your home currency." Period. Pretty expensive option.

And do you think the Visa/MC networks are going to give up their 1% foreign transaction fee (once called "foreign exchange fee" before the advent of DCC)? Heck no. And neither are the issuing banks going to waive their fees if you opt for the merchant's exchange rate under DCC. Why would any sensible cog in this chain of events say 'we'll take less profit, so that foreign merchants and their servicing banks can make more profit.' Duh. Plenty enough to go around -- at the consumer's expense.

In the OP's example, Kasikorn got a 12GBP spread (and, incidentily, the whole tamale, since they're both the "merchant" and the servicing bank). The 218GBP's were deducted from the OP's account -- and used to buy 10,583 baht, as they could convert using the rate used by Visa/MC, which is represented by the 206GBPs (i.e., a 48.54 rate). So, a nice profit from the spread of 583 baht (had the OP purchased from a participating merchant, this spread is divided with the servicing bank, tho' probably not equally. Dunno the formula).

On the other end? Well, Visa or MC still get their 1% foreign transaction fee. However, it's now 1% of 218, not 1% of the non-DCC 206. Gee, more profit under DCC for Visa. And of course, the issuing bank that also charges 2% on top of the Visa fee is enriched under DCC. Everyone's happy -- except the screwed consumer.

So, sounds like Kasikorn can be added to the list of DCC ATM machines, along with Ayudhaya and SCB.

Dave, Ian -- any plans to add Bangkok Bank to this list? I know BB is a servicing bank for DCC -- I have the slips to prove it (when the merchant somehow neglected, as required, to allow me to opt-out of DCC).

[Chivas]

I've been using my card in ATMs in Chiang Mai to draw 10,000bt at a time over the past week. I've used Bangkok Bank for all withdrawals apart from one where I used Kasikorn instead. The BKK Bank withdrawals are costing around £206 per time. The one Kasikorn withdrawal cost £218! Beware!

Are you sure that the problem is being caused by Kasikorn and not by your bank in the UK? I've never had a problem with Kasikorn, and I use their ATM machines frequently.

Might be your UK bank. I use Kasikorn with a Barclays Visa but I understand Kasikorn is a Barclays' correspondent bank in Thailand. Having to go through yet another UK bank might add extra charges?

Having said that, I find Krungthai gives very slightly better rates for ATM withdrawals.

They're all out to get you.

With the exception of Aeon ATMs (much too far away for many) you will always be 'got' when using a foreign card for making this type of witdrawel. As convenient as it may be.

Surprised it took this long before somebody came up with Aeon !!

[JimGant]

With the exception of Aeon ATMs (much too far away for many) you will always be 'got' when using a foreign card for making this type of witdrawel. As convenient as it may be.

Not if you have a Schwab Visa Debit/ATM card, in conjunction with their brokerage account (which needn't be funded). No 1% Visa foreign transaction fee (they absorb it), nor any other fees -- and if you can't find an Aeon machine, the 150 bt ATM fee is automatically refunded by Schwab. Thus, you realize a rate in excess of the buying TT rate, approximating the Interbank Exchange Rate. I think there are a couple other such cards available from US banks, 'tho' I can't remember their names. (Plenty of threads on this subject.)

Britain, a few years back, had equivalent "good deal" cards available, but believe they started adding fees....(?)

Don't select DCC, and these "good deal" cards will get you the best effective exchange rate available. Period. Certainly the best way to get your 'walkin' around money,' 'tho' a little awkward for buying your next new car.

[Gonsalviz]

I suppose you are using a foreign card.

When the ATM asks you if you want to accept the exchange rate they propose then press the NO button.

Then you will get your foreign banks exchange rate which is usually better.

Is this a question that's unique to Kasikorn ATMs? Bkk Bank ATMs never ask me this question.

Kasikorn bank doesn't either.