Do You Consider Thailand A Neutral Environment ...

[Jingthing]

...

But when I am in Thailand or anywhere in the world outside of my country for that matter I never get the feeling ( at least in the circles I travel ) that any of the folks I associate with hold me responsible for my countries governments actions.

I have had sometimes had this feeling and actually evidence of it with spit in the face. Of course, your statement is kind of a cop out with the people you associate limitation. The entire focus of this thread is whether there is reason to be more restrictive about mixing nationalities in Thailand DURING WAR situations. Edited January 7, 2012 by Jingthing

[StreetCowboy]

Have you done any research into how nationals of other countries behave in your own when their countries are at war? My first thought was of Indians and Pakistanis in the UK, though there must be lots of citizens from warring slavic tribes living as neighbours in the US and Australia.

Do you ever eat in the curry restaurants in Soi Nana (3)? There's two there on the West side of the street, one of them is a staunch hezbollah supporter, but I can't remember which.

I don't think that the actual opening of hostilities will mark a sudden change in people's behaviour; generally, opinions are formed over a long period, and last beyond the end of hostilities.

SC

[flying]

...

But when I am in Thailand or anywhere in the world outside of my country for that matter I never get the feeling ( at least in the circles I travel ) that any of the folks I associate with hold me responsible for my countries governments actions.

I have had sometimes had this feeling and actually evidence of it with spit in the face. Of course, your statement is kind of a cop out with the people you associate limitation. The entire focus of this thread is whether there is reason to be more restrictive about mixing nationalities in Thailand DURING WAR situations.

Your answer does not compute...........

On the 1 hand you say you have had actual evidence......

Then on the other you bold & capitalize DURING WAR...Have you had someone spit in your

face during a war?

As for my statement being a cop out......No it was meant to admit that I do not travel in all circles

so my statement could not be empirical.

I would say I travel among normal working people....Not religious or military zealots.....Nor bar flies

As such all those I speak with about such things agree governments do terrible things in our names...or as our representatives

in the world.

If left to the people most would we have much in common & get along fine.

We worry about the same things....Our Kids....Futures...Housing...putting food on the table...employment etc.

I have lived in my life among folks who had been treated badly by the government of the country I am a citizen of...They did not hold it

against me.

A good example is all the retired GI's who live in Vietnam

I am not one of them but it does spring to mind as an example.

Edited January 7, 2012 by flying

[Jingthing]

I meant concurrent to a live war happening in the world. Not a historical war. Duh.

[flying]

I meant concurrent to a live war happening in the world. Not a historical war. Duh.

Obviously.............

But aside from the obvious.............

Why do you post a topic...ask for opinions ..........Update....Update.....

Then get a reply/opinion & only attack it?

Even in a simple minded thread such as this?

I will not make the mistake again

Edited January 7, 2012 by flying

[Jingthing]

I meant concurrent to a live war happening in the world. Not a historical war. Duh.

Obviously.............

But aside from the obvious.............

Why do you post a topic...ask for opinions ..........Update....Update.....

Then get a reply/opinion & only attack it?

Even in a simple minded thread such as this?

I will not make the mistake again

I was looking for on point feedback, not recipes for chocolate cake. No need to keep the thread alive just for the sake of keeping it alive. Not the first time a topic that interests me doesn't click, and won't be the last. Edited January 7, 2012 by Jingthing

[StreetCowboy]

I meant concurrent to a live war happening in the world. Not a historical war. Duh.

Obviously.............

But aside from the obvious.............

Why do you post a topic...ask for opinions ..........Update....Update.....

Then get a reply/opinion & only attack it?

Even in a simple minded thread such as this?

I will not make the mistake again

I was looking for on point feedback, not recipes for chocolate cake. No need to keep the thread alive just for the sake of keeping it alive. Not the first time a topic that interests me doesn't click, and won't be the last.

As I recall, you asked a question regarding a hypothetical war, and mister f lying and I answered suggesting that history could give us some insight to the hypothetical future. THose that do not learn from history are bound to repeat it, unless their exam technique is particularly good.

Personally, I don't like chocolate cake. I prefer vanilla. But we have to accept that sometimes what we are offered is not what we would specifically have chosen for ourselves, but perhaps others think it is more suitable, or it is all that they have, and we should be express gratitude for it in any case, even if only out of politeness.

SC

[lumply]

In a lifetime of living and working in the Middle East going back to the Iran-Iraq war, I can remember only once when I was confronted by a Palestinian who had an issue with the British/US, activities in the Middle East. He wasn't to know that I am originally from Iran, he appeared to just want to rant at a white non Muslim. Tolerance.

The ordinary people in the street whose Governments choose to 'go to war' are not hostile towards their country's so called enemies, at least not outside their own countries where they just want to get on and earn a crust to feed their kids. Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus. I've had them all sitting around the same meal table, laughing and joking without a hint of hostility to each other. Later this week there is a regular meeting at my office in Dubai comprising Lebanese, one Pakistani, an Afghan and me (Brit), together with a representative of a major USA company. No problems there, and none expected.

[Jingthing]

Yes, that's all well and good, but sorry I would still find it highly unlikely to find Israelis eating at Iranian restaurants in Pattaya, even though that food can be found back in Israel so we can assume some Israelis actually do like that kind of food. Its all well and good to sing Kumbaya, but I still think I am feeling something that is real here and now in Thailand.

So what I am saying is that when a war is on, or a war is potentially about to be on, it is natural to at least be conscious of comfort level factors in choosing where to go and what to do in Thailand, which tourism attracts many expats and tourists from countries experiencing hostilities.

It sounds like the few people that have commented seem to be saying what I am feeling isn't something that reflects reality. Perhaps so, perhaps not. Another reason I posted this for discussion.

Anyway, I guess I will continue to feel it's real. If it isn't real why are there always U.S.A. state department warnings about how Americans should avoid displaying themselves as stereotypical Americans (if that is even possible) in certain countries and settings.

Side note, the one time I did experience overt hostility (outside a war zone country) due to my nationality was triggered simply by buying some water at a convenience shop in Malaysia from a pretty young covered Muslim woman who started yelling and spitting at me about Iraq when I told her my nationality (she asked). Needless to say, I found other venues for water purchases after that.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Jingthing

[maiphedmaiaroi]

Side note, the one time I did experience overt hostility (outside a war zone country) due to my nationality was triggered simply by buying some water at a convenience shop in Malaysia from a pretty young covered Muslim woman who started yelling and spitting at me about Iraq when I told her my nationality (she asked). Needless to say, I found other venues for water purchases after that.

I understand however bad america has done to iraq and its people the lady shouldnt act like that to an innocent american, but if you support or accept what they did you deserve it.

The lady was disgusted just to see an american. See how much hatred america brings to people. Imagine if you were her. you'd probably being doing the same.

[Jingthing]

Side note, the one time I did experience overt hostility (outside a war zone country) due to my nationality was triggered simply by buying some water at a convenience shop in Malaysia from a pretty young covered Muslim woman who started yelling and spitting at me about Iraq when I told her my nationality (she asked). Needless to say, I found other venues for water purchases after that.

I understand however bad america has done to iraq and its people the lady shouldnt act like that to an innocent american, but if you support or accept what they did you deserve it.

The lady was disgusted just to see an american. See how much hatred america brings to people. Imagine if you were her. you'd probably being doing the same.

Right. I totally understand her hostility. This was in the early stages of the Bush war on Iraq and I was against it. She wasn't interested in that, only interested in my nationality. I feel in her case if she had known I am a Jew she would have called her brother to earn some brownie points for Allah. Yes, I am serious, her hostility was that virulent.

I did say to her, America is a big country with lots of people with different opinions, but in her case, that just seemed to freak her out.

Anyway, whether nationals support their war policies or not, it sounds like you are with me that being aware of potential conflict situations even while visiting or resident in countries not directly at war is not entirely irrational.

In my case, and maybe this is irrational (I am not sure yet), I have started to avoid all Iranian businesses in Pattaya that I normally want to go to (I still do). Not out of a political statement to boycott Iranian businesses, but because I feel I MAY be unwelcome at such places now. Maybe people outside of Pattaya aren't aware of this, but there are LOTS of Iranian businesses in Pattaya (and right now they appear to be hurting).

Edited January 7, 2012 by Jingthing

[maiphedmaiaroi]

Us normal folk should carry on as normal.

War imo is only ever for the reason to make the elite richer and more powerful. They use the normal people to fight their wars. if the normal people really understood about why people go to war they wouldnf fight.

I will never back my country in a war so i will never think twice about giving attitude to someone from the so called emenies country.

Infact when ever i meet a iraqi "very rare yes" i just feel like saying sorry.

[Jingthing]

Interesting, but again I don't think this issue is really about supporting or not supporting our nation's foreign policy. Rather it is about mixing of nationals from nations at conflict in non-aligned third countries like Thailand. I think there is potential for unpleasantness there, and why ask for trouble?

The example of the incident in Malaysia may be a little different, given that Malaysia was explicitly against the US invasion of Iraq and the people there were very aware of and generally in agreement with that position (so not really non-aligned).

Edited January 7, 2012 by Jingthing

[maiphedmaiaroi]

Interesting, but again I don't think this issue is really about supporting or not supporting our nation's foreign policy. Rather it is about mixing of nationals from nations at conflict in non-aligned third countries like Thailand. I think there is potential for unpleasantness there, and why ask for trouble?

Actually im going out now. I will be visiting a area where there are lots of iranians. If i have the chance to ask them tonight i'll report back tomorrow.

Hope i dont get attacked, just kidding. But if i have the chance i will ask there opinion.

Its always interesting to know both sides.

[Jingthing]

Interesting, but again I don't think this issue is really about supporting or not supporting our nation's foreign policy. Rather it is about mixing of nationals from nations at conflict in non-aligned third countries like Thailand. I think there is potential for unpleasantness there, and why ask for trouble?

Actually im going out now. I will be visiting a area where there are lots of iranians. If i have the chance to ask them tonight i'll report back tomorrow.

Hope i dont get attacked, just kidding. But if i have the chance i will ask there opinion.

Its always interesting to know both sides.

Thanks for that. I would be very curious to hear the opinions you hear. I reckon they will be varied though and you'd have to talk to a LOT of people to get a good picture of it. As far as the economic crisis in Iran now, I am sure some will blame their own government, some will blame the west and Israel, and some will blame both. Edited January 7, 2012 by Jingthing

[zzaa09]

It's quite unfortunate [and instinctive] that we are conditioned to see one another as political entities and nationality property, instead of human brothers and sisters.

[StreetCowboy]

It's quite unfortunate [and instinctive] that we are conditioned to see one another as political entities and nationality property, instead of human brothers and sisters.

speak for yourself...

[zzaa09]

It's quite unfortunate [and instinctive] that we are conditioned to see one another as political entities and nationality property, instead of human brothers and sisters.

speak for yourself...

Actually, I can speak for most....

Fooling yourself if you consider yourself special or from the maddening crowd.

Observations are a wonderful learning tool.

[Jingthing]

It's quite unfortunate [and instinctive] that we are conditioned to see one another as political entities and nationality property, instead of human brothers and sisters.

I think this is a nice thought but us mere mortals find ourselves living in the world as it is.

[MAJIC]

I suspect its not just Thailand,where people become Neutral to all Nationlistic issues.

Firstly it needs two open minded people,who are prepared to talk to each other,without preconcieved ideas,of historical origins.

Away from their homeland,there is no point in saying you only speak to your own Countrymen,there is not that many to choose from to start with.

Approach each individual with friendliness,and as often as not it will generate a favourable response.

I am English and I used to have an, Iraqi friend,you may say so what?,well it was through the Iraq 2 War,how did we manage to put this aside and become friends,well we agreed I didn't start Iraq 2,and neither did he,so we started with a clean unbiased slate,and no apologies necessary.

I won't name Countries and Historical grievances,but there are many Countries that have Nationalistic hates and inbred differences from hundreds of years ago,and all handed down to their children and great Grand Children,who have often never met one of the hated,nationality in question.

Having met many different Nationalities in Thailand,I'm glad I didn't miss out on making some good friends amongst them.

As the old saying goes "The sins of the fathers should not fall on the Sons"

[Jingthing]

Aw shucks, I lied -- here's another update.

Given the news is getting worse, such as the recent Iranian nuclear scientist killed in Iran by of course Israel, but Iran is blaming both the USA and Israel, I now feel more strongly that avoiding Iranian spaces is just the smart thing to do for Americans no matter what their politics, yes, even in Thailand.

Not an issue for many people, obviously, as the lack of interest.

For me it means mostly stopping enjoying the Iranian restaurants in Pattaya, of which there are several, and I have enjoyed them very much. Again, not boycotting, just feel that being in Iranian spaces is a little provocative for someone of my demographics in these times.

I will have to wait for my very rare trips back to the USA to enjoy an Iranian restaurant. I guess a very trivial price to pay considering what is probably coming (but I sure will miss that yummy Persian food!).

BTW, the Iranian places are looking emptier and emptier. I know they have a high season, but now I really think this is directly because of the political/economic situation in Iran.

More to the original topic, no, I really don't feel that Thailand is as neutral as some others obviously do. There is so much international tourism and residence here and among those people many nationalistic partisans for their countries. Remember during the 2001 aftermath, actual live international Islamic jihadist terrorists were found operating from Thailand as a base. It would be very naive to assume there aren't some still here.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Jingthing

[zzaa09]

Interesting, but again I don't think this issue is really about supporting or not supporting our nation's foreign policy. Rather it is about mixing of nationals from nations at conflict in non-aligned third countries like Thailand. I think there is potential for unpleasantness there, and why ask for trouble?

The example of the incident in Malaysia may be a little different, given that Malaysia was explicitly against the US invasion of Iraq and the people there were very aware of and generally in agreement with that position (so not really non-aligned).

An historic example to disprove your points of a neutrality locale: During the American wars of the 1960s/1970s throughout SE Asia, American military personnel were here in droves. As were a great number Vietnamese immigrants and refugees from the French and American wars residing along Mekong provinces [Thai side].....because of the forced upon American bases in the areas, the two cultures were forced to live near one another. It was never a friendly existence - both were highly suspiscious of one another [rightly so] in the Land of Smiles and Neutral Soil.

[Jingthing]

In any case, this is always a situational kind of thing, with many layers of complexity. Definitely not black and white. Anyway, short of doing a poll, do you think it is irrational (or crazy if you like) or not now for Americans to avoid Iranian spaces in Thailand (regardless of their political views)? I have made this decision and probably can't be persuaded to change it now, but I really don't know if it is logical.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Jingthing

[onionluke]

Anyway the rest of us will be getting on fine .

[zzaa09]

In any case, this is always a situational kind of thing, with many layers of complexity. Definitely not black and white. Anyway, short of doing a poll, do you think it is irrational (or crazy if you like) or not now for Americans to avoid Iranian spaces in Thailand (regardless of their political views)? I have made this decision and probably can't be persuaded to change it now, but I really don't know if it is logical.

Do you have enemies, Jing? I'm referring to the historically cycled and invented boogieman that such establishment/government circles promote and lay down for their good citizens to absorb.

[Jingthing]

In any case, this is always a situational kind of thing, with many layers of complexity. Definitely not black and white. Anyway, short of doing a poll, do you think it is irrational (or crazy if you like) or not now for Americans to avoid Iranian spaces in Thailand (regardless of their political views)? I have made this decision and probably can't be persuaded to change it now, but I really don't know if it is logical.

Do you have enemies, Jing? I'm referring to the historically cycled and invented boogieman that such establishment/government circles promote and lay down for their good citizens to absorb.

Well there is that fish and chip guy, but generally, not that I know of.

If you are talking about the government of Iran. Yes, I think the government of Iran thinks the US and Israel are enemies. In that sense, I'll take their word for it and consider their regime an enemy of my nation's government. Given their nuclear scientists are being murdered, US republican candidates are openly competing for who is more hawkish on war with Iran, their posturing about enemies isn't exactly fantasy either, is it? How much individual Iranian people buy into their regime's propaganda is anther story, but I do believe, plenty do. What percentage would PERSONALIZE that towards individual nationals, how could anyone possibly know that? Full war hasn't happened yet and hopefully won't, but a kind of war has already started, that is clear.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Jingthing

[lumply]

I would have absolutely no hesitation to walk into an Iranian restaurant in Pattaya, just as I did last night in Dubai. There were many Iranians and Emiraties there, and I was served by a very charming waiter from Burma.

I am visiting Pattaya again in a few days and I will quite happily walk around as a free man everywhere in the city. It's never been a problem elsewhere, (Tehran, Karachi, Kuwait, Baghdad, Beirut, Bahrain, Johannesburg etc.) and I don't expect it will be an issue in Thailand. Maybe I've just been lucky. Be aware of your surroundings and be vigilant; it's always worked for me, but then goes for anywhere in the world these days.

Mind you, I would not be so full of s**t if I were stuck in Middlesbrough, England at 9pm!

[StreetCowboy]

I discovered I have Iranian neighbours.

I don't know their views on politics, support for their government or possible war, and I don't think I would be tempted to raise any of these topics in casual conversation in the lift.

So on our side of the floor, we have the Iranians, myself, a local Chinese family, and a couple of Western blokes next to me.

In my previous place, there was a lot of Iranian students, and other nationalities - Vietnamese, Korean, Chinese. I went drinking with a couple of the Iranians, they liked the Reggae Bar where the backpackers go. I got chatting to a nice Iranian lady who was brushing up her English before going to the UK to study sports physiotherapy. I never got round to calling her up again. I was never tempted to talk politics with any of them.

Most of the other Iranians I know here (Malaysia) are also students, though one chap is a refugee. Again, I have never discussed politics with any of them, either. I suppose I'm not very talkative.

SC

[StreetCowboy]

I would have absolutely no hesitation to walk into an Iranian restaurant in Pattaya, just as I did last night in Dubai. There were many Iranians and Emiraties there, and I was served by a very charming waiter from Burma.

I am visiting Pattaya again in a few days and I will quite happily walk around as a free man everywhere in the city. It's never been a problem elsewhere, (Tehran, Karachi, Kuwait, Baghdad, Beirut, Bahrain, Johannesburg etc.) and I don't expect it will be an issue in Thailand. Maybe I've just been lucky. Be aware of your surroundings and be vigilant; it's always worked for me, but then goes for anywhere in the world these days.

Mind you, I would not be so full of s**t if I were stuck in Middlesbrough, England at 9pm!

I enjoyed my time in Middlesbrough, but not so much that I ever think of returning. I did think about going for a dirty weekend in Iran, once, but common sense prevailed.

SC

[zzaa09]

What if they offered a neutral environment and no one attended?