Avoiding Air Passenger Duty On Flights From Uk

[simonb]

Hi All

The current cost of Air Passenger Duty (APD, Air Passenger Tax) on flights from the UK is so high now (see screenshot attached) - more than the cost of the actual flight itself !

Has anyone found a way to avoid it (or pay less) when coming from the UK to Thailand?

In theory, by breaking up the journey with a stopover of 24 hours or more, you can reduce the tax because you are technically taking two shorter trips (see example "Connecting Flight" and "Connected Flight" scenarios on the HM Revenue & Customs, Air Passenger Duty webpage)

I have contacted most of the major travel agencies - WestEast, eBookers, Trailfinders, STA Travel, etc and they claim EITHER not to be able to book me the journey in two stages (e.g. London-Amsterdam, Amsterdam-Bangkok) OR quoted me more expensive prices than direct from the UK.

Simon

[Totster]

Seriously.. really ?

totster

[CharlieH]

Thats just playing with numbers, all that matters is the bottom line of what you actually pay for the flight, where the money is distributed is really of no interest, what you actually pay bottom line is.

If you object to it, take a flight into Amsterdam with a budget carrier like Easyjet and then book another flight to Bangkok.

Personally I think 618 return is a great deal !

Edited November 20, 2011 by CharlieH

[FritsSikkink]

And you think there is no tax in Amsterdam

Edited November 20, 2011 by FritsSikkink

[SantiSuk]

Frits, According to Willy Walsh (CEO British Airways) and Michael O'Leary (CEO RyanAir) the APT was abolished by the Dutch Government because it was diverting traffic away from Amsterdam and costing the Dutch taxpayer more in lost revenues than in the tax collected.

They should know - but if you know differently then the British Government would like to hear from you as those two gentlemen are mounting a campiagn at the moment that seeks to get the APT abolished in the UK; one of their best supporting arguments appears to be the actions of the Dutch Government!

Edited November 20, 2011 by SantiSuk

[beano2274]

I have looked at this but from BKK to LHR and back, found the following:

ADP Charges, all in Baht

EVA - 19,700

BA - 17,420

Thai - 16,740

Lufthansa - 20,765 via FFM

KLM - 20,900 via AMS

Qatar - 14,940 via DOHA

Egypt - 12,120 via CAI

Just a few to show the differences, the fee payable for UK ADP remained the same 3740baht, traveling in April (but that makes no difference).

Edited November 20, 2011 by beano2274

[Ricardo]

The UK's APD certainly appears to form only a small part, of what the various airlines are charging as passenger-tax/charges, on their quoted-prices. Perhaps someone might do a wheel-touch stop on a runway somewhere in Europe, and pay just the lower-rate, on APD ?

Or Air Asia might run a bus-connection to the Continent, to link with their long-haul flights, which would be a return to a model used in the 1950s/1960s by the pioneers of the package-holiday ?

One can imagine a lonely/cheap runway somewhere in Benelux, with a hub for cheap buses linking several European capitals or other centres-of-population, and full-flights out of the EEC to an Asian cheap-flight hub. Bring Back Magic-Bus & Laker-Airways' Skytrain !

Back in the real world, the Qatar/UAE-based airlines are already offering an acceptable-quality product, with a single stopover & better luggage-rules, and under-cutting the legacy-carriers like BA or Thai. Now if only they offered more-than-one destination in Thailand ? !

[beano2274]

The UK's APD certainly appears to form only a small part, of what the various airlines are charging as passenger-tax/charges, on their quoted-prices. Perhaps someone might do a wheel-touch stop on a runway somewhere in Europe, and pay just the lower-rate, on APD ?

Or Air Asia might run a bus-connection to the Continent, to link with their long-haul flights, which would be a return to a model used in the 1950s/1960s by the pioneers of the package-holiday ?

One can imagine a lonely/cheap runway somewhere in Benelux, with a hub for cheap buses linking several European capitals or other centres-of-population, and full-flights out of the EEC to an Asian cheap-flight hub. Bring Back Magic-Bus & Laker-Airways' Skytrain !

Back in the real world, the Qatar/UAE-based airlines are already offering an acceptable-quality product, with a single stopover & better luggage-rules, and under-cutting the legacy-carriers like BA or Thai. Now if only they offered more-than-one destination in Thailand ? !

Well Qatar fly to Phuket as well as Bangkok.

[richard_smith237]

My Wife and I flew out Paris CDG last year... When making the bookings I noticed that flying out of the UK would have made the flight (With Etihad) about 6000 baht more expensive (I can't remember if that is per ticket or for both of us on business class tickets)...

The UK departure tax does appear to be more expensive than neighboring countries.

[beano2274]

I have looked at this but from BKK to LHR and back, found the following:

ADP ChargesTAXES , all in Baht

EVA - 19,700

BA - 17,420

Thai - 16,740

Lufthansa - 20,765 via FFM

KLM - 20,900 via AMS

Qatar - 14,940 via DOHA

Egypt - 12,120 via CAI

Just a few to show the differences, the fee payable for UK ADP remained the same 3740baht, traveling in April (but that makes no difference).

The above correction has been made

[garrfeild]

If you don't want to pay Airport departure Tax, then don't fly for the UK, simple, isn't it?

[exeter]

And you think there is no tax in Amsterdam

Holland used to apply passenger duty but stopped charging after I think 1 year, so to go via Skifol? would be good option to avoid the tax

[exeter]

The APD as applied by the UK govt really takes off when you leave the Eurozone, almost as if you can fly but only in Europe so keep the local economy going.

The Swedes dumped APD as well by the way.

In thw end you just look for the flight dont you, price, stop offs, departure and arrival times. APD is in there somewhere, but its the other things that are important, well to me anyway.

Do I like APD no sir, it puts prices up!

Edited November 21, 2011 by exeter

[theoldgit]

The rules are fairly complex and work in favour of HMRC, the APD element on a flight to Bangkok from London is £75 in economy or £150 in Premium Economy and above.

The APD is calculated on the final destination, so if you were flying to Bangkok via Paris on a single ticket and your connection is within 24 hours you pay the £75/£150.

The same with Gulf airlines, you pay the APD to Bangkok, not the Gulf.

If you fly economy to Paris and then flew to Bangkok in a premium cabin, you pay the higher rate of APD for the whole journey.

If your connection is over 24 hours it's regarded as a stopover and you only pay as far as your first stop.

If you change airlines, on a seperate ticket, then you only pay as far as the first stop.Despite all the protests from those in the industry this governement seem to have a very blinkered view, they see it as a cash cow and I really cannot see them changing it, any more than the last government did.

Edited November 21, 2011 by theoldgit

[theoldgit]

^^^^. I'm sorry about the formatting of this post, Thai Visa has been playing up for weeks on my computer.

[lomatopo]

The current cost of Air Passenger Duty (APD, Air Passenger Tax) on flights from the UK is so high now (see screenshot attached) - more than the cost of the actual flight itself.

Not exactly. The bulk of that "Taxes and Fees" line, in your case, is made up of TG's YQ (fuel) surcharge.

APD ex-LON to BKK is 75 GBP in Economy.

Example on TG (couldn't match your base fare):

Fare 1: Carrier TG VLE1MGBP LON to BKK (rules)

Passenger type ADT, round trip fare, booking code V

Covers LHR-BKK (Coach)

£300.00

Fare 2: Carrier TG VLE1MGBP BKK to LON (rules)

Passenger type ADT, round trip fare, booking code V

Covers BKK-LHR (Coach)

£300.00

TG YQ surcharge (YQ) £206.40

TG YQ surcharge (YQ) £6.20

United Kingdom Air Passengers Duty (GB) £75.00

United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge (UB) £30.63

Thailand Passenger Service Charge (TS) £14.10

Subtotal per passenger £932.33

Number of passengers x1

TOTAL AIRFARE & TAXES £932.33

[FritsSikkink]

Frits, According to Willy Walsh (CEO British Airways) and Michael O'Leary (CEO RyanAir) the APT was abolished by the Dutch Government because it was diverting traffic away from Amsterdam and costing the Dutch taxpayer more in lost revenues than in the tax collected.

They should know - but if you know differently then the British Government would like to hear from you as those two gentlemen are mounting a campiagn at the moment that seeks to get the APT abolished in the UK; one of their best supporting arguments appears to be the actions of the Dutch Government!

They only changed the name of the taxes.

I pay 275 euro tax for a flight with China air on dec 13th

[iian23]

They call it taxes and fees. However its not all taxes, a lot of airlines include the a fuel surcharge in these fees which will account for about £200 in your example. So changing your route or including stop overs will not make any difference.

[nong38]

The rules are fairly complex and work in favour of HMRC, the APD element on a flight to Bangkok from London is £75 in economy or £150 in Premium Economy and above.

The APD is calculated on the final destination, so if you were flying to Bangkok via Paris on a single ticket and your connection is within 24 hours you pay the £75/£150.

The same with Gulf airlines, you pay the APD to Bangkok, not the Gulf.

If you fly economy to Paris and then flew to Bangkok in a premium cabin, you pay the higher rate of APD for the whole journey.

If your connection is over 24 hours it's regarded as a stopover and you only pay as far as your first stop.

If you change airlines, on a seperate ticket, then you only pay as far as the first stop.Despite all the protests from those in the industry this governement seem to have a very blinkered view, they see it as a cash cow and I really cannot see them changing it, any more than the last government did.

The last paragraph says it one.Once the money starts rolling in they dont want it to stop. Imagine if they thought about stopping it, the question then would be ok we have lost £x revenue where am I going to get that money from to replace it? Thats the way it works. So we can huff and puff and the politicians will listen sympathetically, kick it around for a bit then forget it, they cant afford to drop it. Anyone think of any new taxes?

I bet HMRC would love to get royalties on some of their taxes they could licence the use of to other states, theiving ( insert a word of your own).

[sharksy]

I'm surprised no-one on here has mentioned VAT. We are one of the few european countries not to levy this tax on flights, although I understand that it is being considered. Then flights really will be expensive :-(

The rules are fairly complex and work in favour of HMRC, the APD element on a flight to Bangkok from London is £75 in economy or £150 in Premium Economy and above.

The APD is calculated on the final destination, so if you were flying to Bangkok via Paris on a single ticket and your connection is within 24 hours you pay the £75/£150.

The same with Gulf airlines, you pay the APD to Bangkok, not the Gulf.

If you fly economy to Paris and then flew to Bangkok in a premium cabin, you pay the higher rate of APD for the whole journey.

If your connection is over 24 hours it's regarded as a stopover and you only pay as far as your first stop.

If you change airlines, on a seperate ticket, then you only pay as far as the first stop.Despite all the protests from those in the industry this governement seem to have a very blinkered view, they see it as a cash cow and I really cannot see them changing it, any more than the last government did.

The last paragraph says it one.Once the money starts rolling in they dont want it to stop. Imagine if they thought about stopping it, the question then would be ok we have lost £x revenue where am I going to get that money from to replace it? Thats the way it works. So we can huff and puff and the politicians will listen sympathetically, kick it around for a bit then forget it, they cant afford to drop it. Anyone think of any new taxes?

I bet HMRC would love to get royalties on some of their taxes they could licence the use of to other states, theiving ( insert a word of your own).

[Ricardo]

The UK's APD certainly appears to form only a small part, of what the various airlines are charging as passenger-tax/charges, on their quoted-prices. Perhaps someone might do a wheel-touch stop on a runway somewhere in Europe, and pay just the lower-rate, on APD ?

Or Air Asia might run a bus-connection to the Continent, to link with their long-haul flights, which would be a return to a model used in the 1950s/1960s by the pioneers of the package-holiday ?

One can imagine a lonely/cheap runway somewhere in Benelux, with a hub for cheap buses linking several European capitals or other centres-of-population, and full-flights out of the EEC to an Asian cheap-flight hub. Bring Back Magic-Bus & Laker-Airways' Skytrain !

Back in the real world, the Qatar/UAE-based airlines are already offering an acceptable-quality product, with a single stopover & better luggage-rules, and under-cutting the legacy-carriers like BA or Thai. Now if only they offered more-than-one destination in Thailand ? !

Well Qatar fly to Phuket as well as Bangkok.

Yes, a very welcome start, albeit flown via KUL initially, one can only hope that it presages a direct service.

[garrya]

Thats just playing with numbers, all that matters is the bottom line of what you actually pay for the flight, where the money is distributed is really of no interest, what you actually pay bottom line is.

If you object to it, take a flight into Amsterdam with a budget carrier like Easyjet and then book another flight to Bangkok.

Personally I think 618 return is a great deal !

It is a very good deal for sure

[sinbin]

The APD is calculated on the final destination,

So would that be the reason why when flying from BKK to BHX return as the same airline flying BHX to BKK return, on the same days, cost approximately 40% more in total ?

Edited November 23, 2011 by sinbin

[theoldgit]

^^^. No that's a totally separate issue, return flights originating from Thailand to Birmingham, or anywhere in The UK always seem to cost more than those originating from the UK, though the APD and Thai Airport Tax are the same.

Another interesting fact with APD is that the band is assesed by using the capital city of destination country not the destination itself. For instance a flight from London to San Diego, which is 5485 miles from London, is charged as Band B, 2000 - 4000 miles, whilst a flight to Nassau in The Bahams is charged in the higher Band C even though it's 1138 miles nearer to London than San Diego.

[steve187]

Here are some prices for Emirates lhr-bkk return out 18/4 return 16/5 economy £584 inc.taxes/extras of £129, business £2570 inc taxes/extras of £211, the same date flights from ams/bkk return economy £453 inc taxes/extras £40. business £1611 inc taxes/extras £40.

the flight from ams is £131 cheaper economy and £959 business.

Prices taken from erimates web site, conversersion from euro by google.

[briley]

Used kayak and lastminute websites and look at the fares and the tax. There seems to be no relationship.

I looked at Emirates from Amsterdam, Paris, Germany and London to BKK on the same date (almost)

Amsterdam has lowest tax, Paris the highest, London 2nd highest.

Total cost of the journey, London the cheapest, Amsterdam the most expensive.

Figure that out.

[pattayadingo]

The UK's APD certainly appears to form only a small part, of what the various airlines are charging as passenger-tax/charges, on their quoted-prices. Perhaps someone might do a wheel-touch stop on a runway somewhere in Europe, and pay just the lower-rate, on APD ?

Or Air Asia might run a bus-connection to the Continent, to link with their long-haul flights, which would be a return to a model used in the 1950s/1960s by the pioneers of the package-holiday ?

One can imagine a lonely/cheap runway somewhere in Benelux, with a hub for cheap buses linking several European capitals or other centres-of-population, and full-flights out of the EEC to an Asian cheap-flight hub. Bring Back Magic-Bus & Laker-Airways' Skytrain !

Back in the real world, the Qatar/UAE-based airlines are already offering an acceptable-quality product, with a single stopover & better luggage-rules, and under-cutting the legacy-carriers like BA or Thai. Now if only they offered more-than-one destination in Thailand ? !

And as I am finding as i search for a flight Qatar are coming it at below £500 return LHR - BKK