webfact Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Justice minister rules out Thaksin pardon The Nation Says corruption cases, those who have not served jail time excluded from draft decree Justice Minister Pracha Promnok insisted yesterday that former prime minister Thaksin Shina-watra would not benefit from the draft Royal Decree seeking pardons for inmates on the occasion of His Majesty the King's birthday. "Thaksin will not receive any benefit from the decree, and his name will not be included on the list of convicts eligible for a royal pardon," Pracha said. "Convicts on the run will not be eligible." Pracha told a press conference that the draft Royal Decree for 2012 used the same wording as the 2011 decree enacted under the Democrat Party's then justice minister Piraphan Saliratwipak. Pracha said he approved the drafting of the Royal Decree on condition that it is based on the same criteria as the 2011 decree. "The new draft will not benefit anyone in particular, especially Thaksin, because those who are eligible for a royal pardon must have served [a portion of] their jail terms first," Pracha said. Pracha added that convicts in corruption cases will not be eligible for a royal pardon. Thaksin yesterday wrote an open letter to Thais saying he is ready to make a sacrifice, but a yellow-shirt leader noted that Thaksin did not say he would forfeit the right to receive a royal pardon. Thaksin wrote the open letter amid growing opposition to the draft Royal Decree, which was approved by the Cabinet and was earlier reported to be designed to allow the fugitive ex-premier to receive a royal pardon without him having to serve any part of his sentence. "I support all measures that will lead to national reconciliation and do not want to see any attempt that will sour the atmosphere, and I am prepared to sacrifice my personal happiness even though I have not received justice during the last five years," Thaksin wrote. Before Pracha ruled out a pardon for Thaksin, Suriyasai Katasila, a co-ordinator of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), posted messages on his Twitter page drawing attention to the fact that Thaksin did not say he would be among the 26,000 convicts to be pardoned. Suriyasai predicted that if Thaksin's name was on the list of pardoned convicts, Thaksin would claim it was the result of a government decision and royal power, and had nothing to do with him. Suriyasai said Thaksin had indicated he would not accept his conviction and jail sentence, and has been manoeuvring against serving it. The PAD co-ordinator claimed that while Thaksin had urged all groups to "forgive and forget", he himself was unwilling to let go of his political power and had urged his supporters to hold rallies to fight for him. After learning of Pracha's press conference, Suriyasai said the PAD had cancelled its plan to hold a rally in front of the Office of the Council of State from 10am to 6pm today. Meanwhile, General Somjet Boonthanom, an appointed senator and a leader of the Siam Samakkhi group, said he would gather signatures of senators to oppose the decree's enactment. The signatures would be submitted to the Privy Council and His Majesty's principal private secretary. Somjet said senators in his group would also ask the Senate Speaker tomorrow to initiate an impeachment procedure against the Cabinet, and that his group would hold a rally against the enactment of the decree at Lumpini Park on Friday. Tul Sitthisomwong, a co-ordinator of the so-called multicoloured group, said yesterday the group would today submit a list of 14,000 signatures to the Privy Council opposing the enactment of a decree to help Thaksin. -- The Nation 2011-11-21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzieman05 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 The best part of a good plan 1) Make others think it is not your plan 2) Make others thing this is not your wish 3) Play the sympaphy game 4) Let the back room curruption take its road 5) when your plan works, tell every one it was not your idea, but what the others wanted so you will humbly comply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooters Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Its simply amazing that a crook on the run from jail time could be considered for a Pardon in the first place . Simply amazing ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 'I am prepared to sacrifice my personal happiness' The Nation, November 21 Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra has called on Thais to reconcile and be confident that the government led by his sister will not do anything to benefit him especially. He was referring to a royal decree draft that seeks a pardon for convicts on His Majesty the King's birthday. Following is his letter written in English sent to the media: Dubai, UAE 20 November 2011 Dear Fellow Thai People, As our country has been going through a crisis from the big flood, I am concerned and want our country and all Thai people to pass through this crisis quickly and that requires harmony and reconciliation in our country in order to overcome this natural disaster. I support all measures that will lead to national reconciliation and do not want to see any attempt that will sour the atmosphere and I am prepared to sacrifice my personal happiness even though I have not received justice during the last five years. I will be patient for the sake of the people. As the Royal Decree which will provide for (an) annual royal pardon is being proposed and as HM the King will become 84 years old this year, and as there has been (a) rumour that my name will be included in the list of individuals to be proposed for royal pardon, I trust in the principle that the government will not do anything that will benefit me or any individual specifically. Moreover, any action to be taken during this period of time must be merely taken so as to bring national reconciliation to our country and to overcome the crisis due to national disaster from (the) big flood. As HM the King has been ill, we must certainly not make HM the King worried and I am confident that our Prime Minister shares my belief and intention. With respect to Thai people who have supported and cared for me, please don't be disappointed as when the light of justice emerges, all will be settled, as the country will not be under the state of conflict forever. Finally, I call upon all parties who truly love Thailand to know the words "forgive and forget" by forgiving each other and forget(ting) the past in order to face new dimensions of tomorrow for the sake of our country and younger generations. With best regards Police Lt-Col Thaksin Shinawatra -- The Nation 2011-11-21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKvampire Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) The best part of a good plan 1) Make others think it is not your plan 2) Make others thing this is not your wish 3) Play the sympaphy game 4) Let the back room curruption take its road 5) when your plan works, tell every one it was not your idea, but what the others wanted so you will humbly comply I wonder if some in the cabinet , certainly the intelligent ones, know full well there's no chance of any pardon for a fugitive who doesnt acknowledge his guilt, but it plays well with their constituent. Most surely know that all "hell would break loose " if such a person would ever get amnesty, surely? Now they are in government they dont want that and get booted out . Edited November 21, 2011 by KKvampire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 IMHO the word has been passed 'In your dreams, sunshine!" and now it's a big back-peddle - we never intended to do it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgato Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 " I am prepared to sacrifice my personal happiness even though I have not received justice" What sacrifice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 IMHO the word has been passed 'In your dreams, sunshine!" and now it's a big back-peddle - we never intended to do it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moe666 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The ptp need to get over Big T they really donot need him and his constant whineing. They have the policies that get them elected and now that they are in office no need of his money as the bank is open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 related topic: PAD Calls Off Gathering Against Royal Pardon Follow this link: TAN_Network PAD: Because of Justice Minister Pracha's confirmation that gov't will b proposing 2010 version of royal pardon decree, we've canceled rally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 So the same guy that ruled out flooding in Bangkok is now ruling out a Thaksin pardon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLock Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Well, in the USA, Nixon was pardoned without ever being tried or held accountable for his crimes so there is precedent. I don't recall Nixon ever running away like a girl and then claiming injustice from afar. What is this precedence you speak of? Fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 An off topic and the replies to that post have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbandung Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 You gotta hand it to the guy. He's bloody slick. I don't know if he wrote that letter himself, but it's clever on lots of levels. I'm with Mick. They gave it a run, realised it wasn't going to fly and figured they could make a positive spin on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahvail Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 We may never know exactly what was in that "closed-door" draft. Thinking out loud, it's entirely possible that there never was an amendment written into it. Chalerm's overt silence over the procedure and failure to disclose what was in the draft might have been a trial balloon floated up to judge the reaction of what the populace would infer from it. 170,000 or so sign-ups on facebook, calls for demonstrations by Sondhi and others, and calls for the Council of State to intervene might have been enough to discourage the PTP from pursuing the pardon this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Brilliant letter showing calmness, reasonableness and willingness to take sacrifice by Thaksin especially when compared to the rabid reactions of his enemies. This letter will go down very well with his supporters and also helps with those in the middle who want ti to all go away by making him look reasonable compared to his never willing to compromise enemies. The reality is whether Thaksin returns or not isnt going to change more than a few people's lives, but most realise that keeping him outside is going to keep the silliness going on and on, and that does affect lives. Realpolitik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phuketrichard Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 " I am prepared to sacrifice my personal happiness even though I have not received justice" What sacrifice? Being on the run with millions of millions is not exactly a sacrifice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payboy Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Justice minister rules out Thaksin pardon Looks like being an oppostion MP is an inactive post for the next 4 years then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatsupdoc Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Brilliant letter showing calmness, reasonableness and willingness to take sacrifice by Thaksin especially when compared to the rabid reactions of his enemies. This letter will go down very well with his supporters and also helps with those in the middle who want ti to all go away by making him look reasonable compared to his never willing to compromise enemies. The reality is whether Thaksin returns or not isnt going to change more than a few people's lives, but most realise that keeping him outside is going to keep the silliness going on and on, and that does affect lives. Realpolitik Are you wearing red glasses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahvail Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Brilliant letter showing calmness, reasonableness and willingness to take sacrifice by Thaksin especially when compared to the rabid reactions of his enemies. This letter will go down very well with his supporters and also helps with those in the middle who want ti to all go away by making him look reasonable compared to his never willing to compromise enemies. The reality is whether Thaksin returns or not isnt going to change more than a few people's lives, but most realise that keeping him outside is going to keep the silliness going on and on, and that does affect lives. Realpolitik Your opinion in your first paragraph is noted, but I disagree. I think it was a very well-worded Machiavellian letter...my opinion. As for the second paragraph, you really thing Thaksin's return will only change a FEW people's lives??? Khun T likes to compare himself to Mandela - did his return not change the face of a country? In Mandela's case, it was for the better. In Thaksin's case, it would be for the worse - for virtually the entire country. Only change a few people's lives indeed...for the better; most would be for the worse. Your post is not up to your usual standards of insight and clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaidam Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Brilliant letter showing calmness, reasonableness and willingness to take sacrifice by Thaksin especially when compared to the rabid reactions of his enemies. This letter will go down very well with his supporters and also helps with those in the middle who want ti to all go away by making him look reasonable compared to his never willing to compromise enemies. The reality is whether Thaksin returns or not isnt going to change more than a few people's lives, but most realise that keeping him outside is going to keep the silliness going on and on, and that does affect lives. Realpolitik Will the families of all the victims that were murdered on Thaksin's orders find it a "brilliant letter"? I'm talking here of the hundred or so muslims in the south, you remember, the ones that died because of Ramadan fasting. Or the thousands of men, women and children gunned down in cold blood by his balaclava clad assassins on motorbikes in the guise of a "war on drugs" that failed to net a single high profile dealer. Forgive and forget indeed. Surely the processes of forgiveness and forgetting would be easier after transparent justice has been served. Your blind love for Thaksin is not sufficient to appease all conscientious observers Justice for all. No double standards. Then maybe we will see an improvement in Thai democracy going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdimension Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Amsterdam & Peroff are quite good at writing well-crafted propaganda pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 So, is the fabled wedding going to take place in Dubai now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Brilliant letter showing calmness, reasonableness and willingness to take sacrifice by Thaksin especially when compared to the rabid reactions of his enemies. This letter will go down very well with his supporters and also helps with those in the middle who want ti to all go away by making him look reasonable compared to his never willing to compromise enemies. The reality is whether Thaksin returns or not isnt going to change more than a few people's lives, but most realise that keeping him outside is going to keep the silliness going on and on, and that does affect lives. Realpolitik Your opinion in your first paragraph is noted, but I disagree. I think it was a very well-worded Machiavellian letter...my opinion. As for the second paragraph, you really thing Thaksin's return will only change a FEW people's lives??? Khun T likes to compare himself to Mandela - did his return not change the face of a country? In Mandela's case, it was for the better. In Thaksin's case, it would be for the worse - for virtually the entire country. Only change a few people's lives indeed...for the better; most would be for the worse. Your post is not up to your usual standards of insight and clarity. Reality is that most people have far more important things to think about and do than worry about Thaksin. His return to the country or not is hardly going to affect their income, job, family, education, life. Surely that is reality for any poltician when it comes to it. Thaksin's return will affect powerful people both ranged with him and against him and probably in the political and business spheres as well as a bunch of career bureaucrats etc. However, we are talking about a small number of people. The Mandela comparison is very different. That was about the majority getting the vote. In Thailand people already have that. It just affects a political balance but even there it will be limited as his parties win the elections and their policies aimed at throwing things to the majority so they are happy and keep voting for them are not going to change much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Brilliant letter showing calmness, reasonableness and willingness to take sacrifice by Thaksin especially when compared to the rabid reactions of his enemies. This letter will go down very well with his supporters and also helps with those in the middle who want ti to all go away by making him look reasonable compared to his never willing to compromise enemies. The reality is whether Thaksin returns or not isnt going to change more than a few people's lives, but most realise that keeping him outside is going to keep the silliness going on and on, and that does affect lives. Realpolitik Will the families of all the victims that were murdered on Thaksin's orders find it a "brilliant letter"? I'm talking here of the hundred or so muslims in the south, you remember, the ones that died because of Ramadan fasting. Or the thousands of men, women and children gunned down in cold blood by his balaclava clad assassins on motorbikes in the guise of a "war on drugs" that failed to net a single high profile dealer. Forgive and forget indeed. Surely the processes of forgiveness and forgetting would be easier after transparent justice has been served. Your blind love for Thaksin is not sufficient to appease all conscientious observers Justice for all. No double standards. Then maybe we will see an improvement in Thai democracy going forward. One only needs to suspend morality to find the insight amd clarity in this persons posts. Try it, you'll see what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elcent Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) Brilliant letter showing calmness, reasonableness and willingness to take sacrifice by Thaksin especially when compared to the rabid reactions of his enemies. This letter will go down very well with his supporters and also helps with those in the middle who want ti to all go away by making him look reasonable compared to his never willing to compromise enemies. The reality is whether Thaksin returns or not isnt going to change more than a few people's lives, but most realise that keeping him outside is going to keep the silliness going on and on, and that does affect lives. Realpolitik easy like ... 1 2 3 he can take the next flight to Bkk and follow the procedure. ...so far to his return ... He's no blocked from entering TH real common sense ... brilliant reply, isn't it? Edited November 21, 2011 by metisdead Off topic video removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Brilliant letter showing calmness, reasonableness and willingness to take sacrifice by Thaksin especially when compared to the rabid reactions of his enemies. This letter will go down very well with his supporters and also helps with those in the middle who want ti to all go away by making him look reasonable compared to his never willing to compromise enemies. The reality is whether Thaksin returns or not isnt going to change more than a few people's lives, but most realise that keeping him outside is going to keep the silliness going on and on, and that does affect lives. Realpolitik Will the families of all the victims that were murdered on Thaksin's orders find it a "brilliant letter"? I'm talking here of the hundred or so muslims in the south, you remember, the ones that died because of Ramadan fasting. Or the thousands of men, women and children gunned down in cold blood by his balaclava clad assassins on motorbikes in the guise of a "war on drugs" that failed to net a single high profile dealer. Forgive and forget indeed. Surely the processes of forgiveness and forgetting would be easier after transparent justice has been served. Your blind love for Thaksin is not sufficient to appease all conscientious observers Justice for all. No double standards. Then maybe we will see an improvement in Thai democracy going forward. One only needs to suspend morality to find the insight amd clarity in this persons posts. Try it, you'll see what I mean. I used to believe that a 27" vacuum was the biggest suck of them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noahvail Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Brilliant letter showing calmness, reasonableness and willingness to take sacrifice by Thaksin especially when compared to the rabid reactions of his enemies. This letter will go down very well with his supporters and also helps with those in the middle who want ti to all go away by making him look reasonable compared to his never willing to compromise enemies. The reality is whether Thaksin returns or not isnt going to change more than a few people's lives, but most realise that keeping him outside is going to keep the silliness going on and on, and that does affect lives. Realpolitik Your opinion in your first paragraph is noted, but I disagree. I think it was a very well-worded Machiavellian letter...my opinion. As for the second paragraph, you really thing Thaksin's return will only change a FEW people's lives??? Khun T likes to compare himself to Mandela - did his return not change the face of a country? In Mandela's case, it was for the better. In Thaksin's case, it would be for the worse - for virtually the entire country. Only change a few people's lives indeed...for the better; most would be for the worse. Your post is not up to your usual standards of insight and clarity. Reality is that most people have far more important things to think about and do than worry about Thaksin. His return to the country or not is hardly going to affect their income, job, family, education, life. Surely that is reality for any poltician when it comes to it. Thaksin's return will affect powerful people both ranged with him and against him and probably in the political and business spheres as well as a bunch of career bureaucrats etc. However, we are talking about a small number of people. The Mandela comparison is very different. That was about the majority getting the vote. In Thailand people already have that. It just affects a political balance but even there it will be limited as his parties win the elections and their policies aimed at throwing things to the majority so they are happy and keep voting for them are not going to change much. I do wish there were a sarcasm smiley - it applied to the Mandela comparison, I guess you didn't get it. Sorry. My wife is a social worker who ran an NGO here in Issan. I used to go around to the villages with her, and we heard many - many - horror stories from farmers who got trapped in the Thaksin-sponsored government loans, couldn't pay them back, got into trouble with money-lenders in an effort to repay those loans, and lost their farms and their houses. And that's just within one small province. Suicides occurred because of that program. And you conveniently forget the lesson that history repeats itself. The extra-judicial killings on the so-called war on drugs, the murders in the South and the escalation of violence there brought out by his ill-designed policies... How can you say it will only affect a few? And you are correct. History has shown that he "throws things" to those he supported, and withhold "things" from those who did not support him. Remember the tsunami in Phuket? But keep digging...you'll hit rock bottom eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 A post and replies with reference to HM the King have been removed. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Replies to a previously deleted post have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 So, is the fabled wedding going to take place in Dubai now? Probably not. His ruse of being here for her wedding was likely just hot air. He's not the most endearing father in the world, even when he was here, he very nearly missed his other daughter's university graduation, only showing up at the very last moment possible for the requisite photo op: Additionally, his involving them heavily in countless number of his own financial shenanigans seriously jeopardized their freedom. He's not exactly a Father of the Year candidate. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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