Pracha Confident Of Rebutting Claims

[Lite Beer]

Pracha confident of rebutting claims

The Nation on Sunday

Justice Minister Pol General Pracha Promnok is confident he can clarify his work as director for flood relief operations during the censure debate set to start today. Meanwhile, the opposition vowed to speak “only the truth” while putting Pracha through scrutiny.

The no-confidence debate against Pracha, as the director of the Flood Relief Operations Centre (FROC), is scheduled to start today with the MPs voting tomorrow.

The Democrats filed a no-confidence motion against Pracha saying he had failed to solve the flood problem and overlooked irregularities in flood relief supplies distribution.

Pracha said yesterday he was not worry and did not see any need to prepare to deal with the Democrats' scrutiny.

"I'm not tired. I'm going ahead as long as people are still in trouble. I'm not disheartened. I'm determined and have good to do for the country and the people. I'm not worried. If the people still want me to do, I'll continue. If not, I'll just stop. I'm a representative, not [an MP who came from] a draw of lots," Pracha said.

He said he believed the censure debate would not have any impact on Yingluck. He was glad that Democrat leader Abhisit would lead the debate himself so that, as a new-face politician, he [Pracha] can be politically stronger.

Democrat MP from Songkhla, Wiratana Kalayasiri, a legal expert, said he was confident in the authenticity of the evidence against Pracha and that the National Anti-Corruption Commission would be able to continue investigations. However, he didn't expect Pracha to be censured as the government has a majority vote in the House.

"We [the Democrats] will speak only the truth because the debate is a political execution. This debate will be about speaking the truth and contains no lies or video clip editing," Wiratana said.

Pracha said that he had been lately summoned to clarify his work to the parliamentary committee so much that neither he nor the FROC officers had time for actual flood-relief work.

Democrat MP from Trang, Satit Wongnongtaey rebutted this statement of Pracha saying only officers related to the flood-relief supplies distribution were summoned.

-- The Nation 2011-11-27

[Lite Beer]

Jurin kicks off censure debate against Pracha

Democrat Party MP Jurin Laksanavisit Sunday kicked off a censure debate against Justice Minister Pracha Promnok.

Jurin, chief opposition whip, stated the debate at 9:52 am. Jurin denied that the Democrat was seeking to topple the government as alleged by the Pheu Thai Party.

He said although the Democrat sponsored the debate alone, the party was proud to carry out its opposition's duty.

The debate is scheduled to end at midnight.

Jurin accused Pracha of failing in his administration, violating the Constitution and tolerating corruption intentionally.

-- The Nation 2011-11-27

[Lite Beer]

Censure debate against Justice Minister Pracha starts Sunday

BANGKOK, Nov 27 – A censure debate against Justice Minister and the Director of the Flood Relief Operation Centre (FROC) Pracha Promnok started Sunday with the vote on this no-confidence motion set for Monday.

Sunday’s no-confidence motion debate was filed against Mr Pracha for allegedly mismanaging the flood crisis and alleged corruption in flood relief package procurement. Democrat Party MP Jurin Laksanavisit was scheduled as the first person to grill him.

Before the debate commenced, Opposition chief whip Jurin said he believed Pol Gen Pracha would survive the no-confidence vote with support from the majority of the government.

He does not hope for any political change but it is the duty of the opposition to scrutinize the government and the public can learn information from the opposition during the debate for their own judgment.

Somsak Kiartsuranond, the House Speaker, said he believed the censure debate will not be prolonged and is likely to end by Sunday as the opposition Democrat Party has reportedly prepared 10 MPs for the debate. A vote on the motion of no confidence could be done by Monday as scheduled.

As Pol Gen Pracha said Sunday morning that he was ready to clarify all allegations, red shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana led a group of supporters to give Mr Pracha’s moral support.

Mr Kwanchai said Pol Gen Pracha did his best and his supporters wanted to give him and the government moral support to continue fighting the natural disaster and helping flood victims.

If distorted information was used during the debate, Mr Kwanchai said he will lead people from the provinces to protest in the capital.

In addition to the group led by Mr Kwanchai, about 1,000 people also gathered outside Parliament to show their support for the Prime Minister and Pol Gen Pracha.

About 800 supporters are from the northern teacher federation and about 200 others comprised a women's club in Udon Thani and village heads from the Northeast. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-11-27

[Lite Beer]

Thai minister hit by no confidence motion over floods

BANGKOK, November 27, 2011 (AFP) - Thailand's justice minister was forced Sunday to defend himself against a no confidence motion after the opposition alleged official flood relief work had been plagued by corruption and mismanagement.

As director of the government's Flood Relief Operation Command, justice minister Pracha Promnok was responsible for overseeing nationwide relief efforts in the wake of Thailand's worst floods in half a century.

The floods devastated vast areas of the kingdom and have left more than 600 people dead.

Pracha's work was grossly inadequate, said opposition Democrat Party lawmaker Jurin Laksanavisit, who claimed that both the state's flood aid budget and private donations had been embezzled by ruling party officials.

"The widespread floods were not only caused by nature, but also by a failure of the Flood Relief Operation Command to deal with the situation," Jurin told parliament.

Pracha defended his record and denied the corruption allegations, telling parliament that ruling Puea Thai lawmakers had worked tirelessly to help their constituents during the floods.

The no confidence vote will be held Monday, which is also the last day of the current parliamentary session.

The motion also took aim at a reported royal pardon for fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

Jurin saying the opposition could no longer trust the justice minister after "the cabinet secretly passed the royal pardon plan which we believe was meant to help one person".

The government last week ruled out a royal pardon for Thaksin, who lives abroad to escape a jail term for corruption, after strong criticism from opponents to a reported draft decree.

Royal pardons, which usually exclude convicts found guilty of drug offences and corruption and those who have not spent time in prison, are granted each year on King Bhumibol Adulyadej's birthday on December 5.

Local media had claimed that this year's decree would be expanded to apply to "convicts who are at least 60 years old and are sentenced to under three years in jail".

Thaksin, who was ousted by the army in a 2006 coup, is 62 and lives in self-imposed exile in Dubai to avoid a two-year sentence for graft.

Pracha said there had been no wrongdoing regarding this year's royal pardon and that he had "no hidden agenda to benefit any specific people".

Reports of the pardon came at a delicate time for Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, who is Thaksin's younger sister and widely considered his political proxy, as she also faces criticism for her handling of devastating floods.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-11-28

[rubl]

Posted Today, 09:43

RT@tulsathit: Hundreds of community leaders and villagers from Northeast gathering at Parliament to give Pracha support b4 censure. -@nnanews

RT@tulsathit: TR @satien_nna: Phue Thai to use a lot of MPs to guard Pracha in Parliament today, a "big bag strategy".

RT@tulsathit: Censure debate starting now. Jurin making opening statement.

Taken from Thailand Live Sunday #19. More to be found there.

[JurgenG]

Posted Today, 09:43

RT@tulsathit: Hundreds of community leaders and villagers from Northeast gathering at Parliament to give Pracha support b4 censure. -@nnanews

RT@tulsathit: TR @satien_nna: Phue Thai to use a lot of MPs to guard Pracha in Parliament today, a "big bag strategy".

RT@tulsathit: Censure debate starting now. Jurin making opening statement.

Taken from Thailand Live Sunday #19. More to be found there.

Have you changed side Rubl?

You're telling us that the government enjoys the support of the majority in the country and the government ?

We kind of know that already but it's a pleasant surprise that people from the other side acknowledge it.

[whybother]

Posted Today, 09:43

RT@tulsathit: Hundreds of community leaders and villagers from Northeast gathering at Parliament to give Pracha support b4 censure. -@nnanews

RT@tulsathit: TR @satien_nna: Phue Thai to use a lot of MPs to guard Pracha in Parliament today, a "big bag strategy".

RT@tulsathit: Censure debate starting now. Jurin making opening statement.

Taken from Thailand Live Sunday #19. More to be found there.

Have you changed side Rubl?

You're telling us that the government enjoys the support of the majority in the country and the government ?

We kind of know that already but it's a pleasant surprise that people from the other side acknowledge it.

All they enjoy is "the support of hundreds".

[TAWP]

Have you changed side Rubl?

Since when is reporting what is being said by journalists taking any side?

You have spent too much time reading some red English-speaking pundits.

[OzMick]

" Hundreds of community leaders and villagers from Northeast........"

Are these flood victims or the usual red rent-a-crowd?

[phiphidon]

" Hundreds of community leaders and villagers from Northeast........"

Are these flood victims or the usual red rent-a-crowd?

Terrorists probably, I mean, 800 Teachers and 200 odd Udon Thani woman and village heads.......... I'd imagine a fair few of them have had their feet wet in the not so distant past, Bangkok wasn't the only place to have suffered from floods apparently.

[whybother]

" Hundreds of community leaders and villagers from Northeast........"

Are these flood victims or the usual red rent-a-crowd?

Could have been flood victims, but luckily they didn't have to deal with FROC.

[bigbamboo]

Nothing wrong with a bit of good old public political debate. Shame it was in short supply before the election.

[rubl]

" Hundreds of community leaders and villagers from Northeast........"

Are these flood victims or the usual red rent-a-crowd?

Terrorists probably, I mean, 800 Teachers and 200 odd Udon Thani woman and village heads.......... I'd imagine a fair few of them have had their feet wet in the not so distant past, Bangkok wasn't the only place to have suffered from floods apparently.

Checked, indeed in August and September 2011 flooding after heavy downpour. Nothing to do with FROC or Justice Minister Pol.Gen Pracha. Some interesting items to be found.

"Ms Yingluck praised what she called the ‘Udon Thani Model’ and their effective response to the flooding problems, but she said that further study should be done on the proposal to build a permanent pumping station at Huai Luang, as it may affect other provinces in the area, such as Nong Khai.

The premier said that the province should consult with the Royal Irrigation Department on its plans to build an additional reservoir to retain water during floods… the water then being able to be dispersed during the dry season."

http://thailandtimes.asia/thailand-news/pm-visits-flood-torn-udon-thani/

http://www.asianewsnet.net/home/news.php?id=21193&sec=1

[animatic]

Posted Today, 09:43

RT@tulsathit: Hundreds of community leaders and villagers from Northeast gathering at Parliament to give Pracha support b4 censure. -@nnanews

RT@tulsathit: TR @satien_nna: Phue Thai to use a lot of MPs to guard Pracha in Parliament today, a "big bag strategy".

RT@tulsathit: Censure debate starting now. Jurin making opening statement.

Taken from Thailand Live Sunday #19. More to be found there.

Don't they mean WIND BAG Strategy?

[yoshiwara]

Pracha said there had been no wrongdoing regarding this year's royal pardon and that he had "no hidden agenda to benefit any specific people".

And you just know he's a truthful person when you read that.

[yoshiwara]

Pracha said that he had been lately summoned to clarify his work to the parliamentary committee so much that neither he nor the FROC officers had time for actual flood-relief work. Democrat MP from Trang, Satit Wongnongtaey rebutted this statement of Pracha saying only officers related to the flood-relief supplies distribution were summoned.

Incredible! We didn't have time to do our jobs! Looks like he gave up. I don't know why given the wild success of the synchronised boat propellers in draining the CP River in Bangkok.

[geriatrickid]

The questioning mounted by the Democrats is a good thing and it is what they should be doing. Questioning policy and activity is part of the democratic process. Where the Democrats lose it, is by adding the non confidence and censure action at the same time. The facts should be gathered first and then if there is sufficent evidence the no confidence motion should be tabled. The use of censure and no confidence at this point in the process interjects an absolute political motive and will undermine the Democrats. I don't doubt, that there will be instances of incompetence uncovered, but the political overtones will allow those that should be held accountable to skirt responsibility with the claims of see, it's political etc.

I think this is another example of the lack of political street smarts and long term strategy on the part of the Democrats. They have taken an opportunity to re-establish their presence as a viable alternative and squandered. It's a shame, because the debate would have been valuable and constructive otherwise.Mr. Abhisit needs some new advisers.

[whybother]

The questioning mounted by the Democrats is a good thing and it is what they should be doing. Questioning policy and activity is part of the democratic process. Where the Democrats lose it, is by adding the non confidence and censure action at the same time. The facts should be gathered first and then if there is sufficent evidence the no confidence motion should be tabled. The use of censure and no confidence at this point in the process interjects an absolute political motive and will undermine the Democrats. I don't doubt, that there will be instances of incompetence uncovered, but the political overtones will allow those that should be held accountable to skirt responsibility with the claims of see, it's political etc.

I think this is another example of the lack of political street smarts and long term strategy on the part of the Democrats. They have taken an opportunity to re-establish their presence as a viable alternative and squandered. It's a shame, because the debate would have been valuable and constructive otherwise.Mr. Abhisit needs some new advisers.

I think you'll find that the censure motion and no-confidence motion is the same thing.

"I think this is another example of" you not knowing what you're talking about.

Edited November 27, 2011 by whybother

[OzMick]

" Hundreds of community leaders and villagers from Northeast........"

Are these flood victims or the usual red rent-a-crowd?

Terrorists probably, I mean, 800 Teachers and 200 odd Udon Thani woman and village heads.......... I'd imagine a fair few of them have had their feet wet in the not so distant past, Bangkok wasn't the only place to have suffered from floods apparently.

Perhaps the teachers might ask why they are excluded from the B15,000/m starting pay scheme for graduates - a clear indication of PTP's attitude to education. Udon did have a bit of flooding in August, even got a visit from Yingluk. It's a pity she didn't realise where the water was headed as PPPPPP.

[hyperdimension]

Posted Today, 09:43

RT@tulsathit: Hundreds of community leaders and villagers from Northeast gathering at Parliament to give Pracha support b4 censure. -@nnanews

RT@tulsathit: TR @satien_nna: Phue Thai to use a lot of MPs to guard Pracha in Parliament today, a "big bag strategy".

RT@tulsathit: Censure debate starting now. Jurin making opening statement.

Taken from Thailand Live Sunday #19. More to be found there.

Don't they mean WIND BAG Strategy?

More accurately, a douche bag strategy.

[hyperdimension]

Pracha said there had been no wrongdoing regarding this year's royal pardon and that he had "no hidden agenda to benefit any specific people".

And you just know he's a truthful person when you read that.

He is a Justice Minister after all, whom you'd therefore expect would uphold moral rightness based on ethics.

Edited November 28, 2011 by hyperdimension

[hyperdimension]

Nothing wrong with a bit of good old public political debate. Shame it was in short supply before the election.

Though, was Yingluck present on this occasion? You'd think that she would have learned some debating skills by now. Maybe she's too busy practising her Engrish communication skills - "Help the economic for the people"... "overcome"... "pressure"... "elevate"... "Help the economic for the people"...

Edited November 28, 2011 by hyperdimension

[Buchholz]

The questioning mounted by the Democrats is a good thing and it is what they should be doing. Questioning policy and activity is part of the democratic process. Where the Democrats lose it, is by adding the non confidence and censure action at the same time. The facts should be gathered first and then if there is sufficent evidence the no confidence motion should be tabled. The use of censure and no confidence at this point in the process interjects an absolute political motive and will undermine the Democrats. I don't doubt, that there will be instances of incompetence uncovered, but the political overtones will allow those that should be held accountable to skirt responsibility with the claims of see, it's political etc.

I think this is another example of the lack of political street smarts and long term strategy on the part of the Democrats. They have taken an opportunity to re-establish their presence as a viable alternative and squandered. It's a shame, because the debate would have been valuable and constructive otherwise.Mr. Abhisit needs some new advisers.

I think you'll find that the censure motion and no-confidence motion is the same thing.

"I think this is another example of" you not knowing what you're talking about.

.

[geriatrickid]

The questioning mounted by the Democrats is a good thing and it is what they should be doing. Questioning policy and activity is part of the democratic process. Where the Democrats lose it, is by adding the non confidence and censure action at the same time. The facts should be gathered first and then if there is sufficent evidence the no confidence motion should be tabled. The use of censure and no confidence at this point in the process interjects an absolute political motive and will undermine the Democrats. I don't doubt, that there will be instances of incompetence uncovered, but the political overtones will allow those that should be held accountable to skirt responsibility with the claims of see, it's political etc.

I think this is another example of the lack of political street smarts and long term strategy on the part of the Democrats. They have taken an opportunity to re-establish their presence as a viable alternative and squandered. It's a shame, because the debate would have been valuable and constructive otherwise.Mr. Abhisit needs some new advisers.

I think you'll find that the censure motion and no-confidence motion is the same thing.

"I think this is another example of" you not knowing what you're talking about.

.

There are two activities underway. One is a motion of censure against the minister. It is a reprimand based upon specific activities. Then, there is the process of seeking ta motion of non confidence in the minister. The motion of non-confidence will in large part will be based upon the allegations that will be made during the censure debate, but they will not necessarily be the only argument(s) given to argue in favour of the non confidence motion.

It is not the first time this confusion makes it way into the print media. A recent example was the censure debate of March 11, 2011 brought against then PM Abhisit on the violation of human rights. It was linked to a non-confidence vote. The debate that occurred was a censure debate. The vote that occurred was a non confidence motion.

I suggest you two read textbook on Thailand's parliamentary rules. Perhaps you might consider taking a class, if you qualify for admission at a Thai university. I am obliged to take 30 hours a year to maintain some of my professional licenses.

[whybother]

There are two activities underway. One is a motion of censure against the minister. It is a reprimand based upon specific activities. Then, there is the process of seeking ta motion of non confidence in the minister. The motion of non-confidence will in large part will be based upon the allegations that will be made during the censure debate, but they will not necessarily be the only argument(s) given to argue in favour of the non confidence motion.

It is not the first time this confusion makes it way into the print media. A recent example was the censure debate of March 11, 2011 brought against then PM Abhisit on the violation of human rights. It was linked to a non-confidence vote. The debate that occurred was a censure debate. The vote that occurred was a non confidence motion.

I suggest you two read textbook on Thailand's parliamentary rules. Perhaps you might consider taking a class, if you qualify for admission at a Thai university. I am obliged to take 30 hours a year to maintain some of my professional licenses.

How does doing them separately make either issue less "political"? It's ALL political. That's what POLITICIANS do.

What is wrong with doing them at the same time? They obviously think that there is enough evidence to have a no confidence vote. You present and debate the issues, then you vote on it. There is no point having a vote at some unrelated time. You can't really have a no confidence vote with out the censure debate, and there is no point having a censure debate if you are not going to vote on something. They go together.

[geriatrickid]

How does doing them separately make either issue less "political"? It's ALL political. That's what POLITICIANS do.

What is wrong with doing them at the same time? They obviously think that there is enough evidence to have a no confidence vote. You present and debate the issues, then you vote on it. There is no point having a vote at some unrelated time. You can't really have a no confidence vote with out the censure debate, and there is no point having a censure debate if you are not going to vote on something. They go together.

You most certainly can have a non-confidence vote without a censure debate. A classic example is the budge vote. The failure to pass a budget is a vote of non confidence and results in the government resigning. Censure is a reprimand action, it is a rebuke. A non-confidence vote is just that, a vote of non-confidence. A censure debate and a motion of non-confidence can occur at the same time, but need not occur at the same time. You wrote "I think this is another example of you not knowing what you're talking about" . It is apparent that it is you that does not understand parliamentary procedure. Again I refer you to the March 11, 2011 censure debate against former PM Abhist as an illustration of the characteristics of the procedures.. The censure action related to allegations of corruption, mismanagement and conflicts of interest levelled at the PM and nine of his minister. The non confidence motion that the Democrats won with 52% of the vote was in respect to whether or not the House of Representatives had confidence in the government to continue in that role.

[rubl]

" Hundreds of community leaders and villagers from Northeast........"

Are these flood victims or the usual red rent-a-crowd?

Terrorists probably, I mean, 800 Teachers and 200 odd Udon Thani woman and village heads.......... I'd imagine a fair few of them have had their feet wet in the not so distant past, Bangkok wasn't the only place to have suffered from floods apparently.

Perhaps the teachers might ask why they are excluded from the B15,000/m starting pay scheme for graduates - a clear indication of PTP's attitude to education. Udon did have a bit of flooding in August, even got a visit from Yingluk. It's a pity she didn't realise where the water was headed as PPPPPP.

To be fair, a larger part of the North-East is in the Mekong catchment area, therefore draining into the Mekong.

[whybother]

How does doing them separately make either issue less "political"? It's ALL political. That's what POLITICIANS do.

What is wrong with doing them at the same time? They obviously think that there is enough evidence to have a no confidence vote. You present and debate the issues, then you vote on it. There is no point having a vote at some unrelated time. You can't really have a no confidence vote with out the censure debate, and there is no point having a censure debate if you are not going to vote on something. They go together.

You most certainly can have a non-confidence vote without a censure debate. A classic example is the budge vote. The failure to pass a budget is a vote of non confidence and results in the government resigning. Censure is a reprimand action, it is a rebuke. A non-confidence vote is just that, a vote of non-confidence. A censure debate and a motion of non-confidence can occur at the same time, but need not occur at the same time. You wrote "I think this is another example of you not knowing what you're talking about" . It is apparent that it is you that does not understand parliamentary procedure. Again I refer you to the March 11, 2011 censure debate against former PM Abhist as an illustration of the characteristics of the procedures.. The censure action related to allegations of corruption, mismanagement and conflicts of interest levelled at the PM and nine of his minister. The non confidence motion that the Democrats won with 52% of the vote was in respect to whether or not the House of Representatives had confidence in the government to continue in that role.

The Budget vote is a vote on the budget bill, which has been debated, as happened here just a couple of weeks ago. If the bill is not passed (which is very unlikely), the government can have another go at it, just like any other bill presented before parliament. Of course, if it doesn't get passed, that leads to government spending problems and the inability of the government to operate, but that is besides the point. It is effectively a no confidence vote since a majority of the parliament are not supporting the government, and would usually lead to an election being called.

A censure motion is something that gets debated and voted on. There is no point of having a censure debate if parliament doesn't vote on it to confirm the censure.

If you look at the news regarding Pracha, there was only one vote. In the end (by 273 to 188), Pracha wasn't censured.

A vote of "no confidence" usually applies to the government where the opposition submits their candidate for PM, as happened in March this year and June 2010. That wasn't the case in this debate.

[phiphidon]

To be fair, a larger part of the North-East is in the Mekong catchment area, therefore draining into the Mekong.

And there were 800 odd people from the North - if you look at the Chao Praya River drainage basin you get an idea of where was flooded before Bangkok

Taken from: http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/ngeo629.html

And some interesting photos of Udon thani here

http://www.udontalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6943&start=10

particularly this one

Edited November 28, 2011 by phiphidon

[rubl]

To be fair, a larger part of the North-East is in the Mekong catchment area, therefore draining into the Mekong.

And there were 800 odd people from the North - if you look at the Chao Praya River drainage basin you get an idea of where was flooded before Bangkok

... Map and rest removed

My post #6:

RT@tulsathit: Hundreds of community leaders and villagers from Northeast gathering at Parliament to give Pracha support b4 censure. -@nnanews

Mind you North-East is also a bit North.

Anyway our Minister of Justice has escaped the censure motion unscratched, or at least he's not voted out

BTW I removed the map as it looked out-of-scale, stretched. The yellow line is the international border according to the legend, but that is incorrect at least in the right upper part of the map. The border there follows the Mekong. This map I took from wiki

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thailand_2002_CIA_map.jpg )

Edited November 28, 2011 by rubl