Crackdown On Alcohol On Retail Display

[frankie52]

It's a bit ironic that his report should be on the BBC website re relaxed hours for alcohol consumption as Thailand eppears to be rushing headlong back into the 'Dark Ages'.

About one-third of all the pubs, clubs and shops in England and Wales licensed to sell alcohol are to get longer opening hours, a BBC survey suggests.

New licensing laws which could allow 24-hour drinking in some areas come into force at midnight.

According to the survey, more than 56,000 outlets - and possibly about 70,000 - will be allowed to sell alcohol for longer than they do now.

But so far only a fraction - 359 pubs and clubs - will get 24-hour licences.

The BBC contacted 375 licensing authorities for the survey and 301 responded in full.

The authorities who responded said:

There have been 56,388 extensions in hours for selling alcohol - 50% of the total number of licensed premises but not including off- licences.

1,121 establishments will have 24-hour licences (about 0.75% of the total) and of these 359 are pubs or clubs.

When figures for licensing authorities which did not respond to the survey are included, the number of pubs, clubs, bars, off-licences and supermarkets allowed to sell alcohol for longer is likely to rise to about 70,000.

That is more than a third of the total number of licensed premises.

[OlRedEyes]

Will the last person to leave please turn the lights out

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We get these comments everytime the drinking laws change. Few if any ever leave, they just make a big noise about it here then do nothing.

At least half the places I drink have no licence... so hours of operation are the least of their worries.

Keep this in mind. It's Thailand and.....

- Prostitution is illegal

- So is driving without a licence

- or riding a MC without a helmet

- and many other things that just don't matter to most Thais.

So lets stop running around screaming that the sky is falling. It's not.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

THANKS !!!

I am always amazed by expats's expectations for the foreign country they live in whereas if at home they would just keep it quiet and keep shopping on Oxford Street...

Remember… it is THEIR country, they do what THEY like, and if you are not happy, turn off the light or YOUR condo and go in search of a greener bank…

~R

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The inevitable self-rightous 'like it or leave' comment. Sad reflection of a dead mind.

[LindsayBKK]

We support the new rules, not because we are killjoys or don't drink alcohol. But Thailand needs severe measures on a number of issues including unlawful cigarette availability, alcohol consumption hours, driving habits etc. Perhaps after Thailand has conformed to these laws, things can be relaxed a little. But for now it's necessary. Thailand aspires to First World status. It's not the economy and poverty alone which will decide this issue.

Now let's see some severe enforcement of the highway code, punitive punishments for motorcycles driving on pavements, driving the wrong way down one way streets, speeding etc., with the police to set the right example.

The pills necessary to put this country right are hard to swallow, but they are making a start. For one beauracrats are doping a good job. Keep it up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you've forgotten to take your pills.

[silk123]

Welcome to China.

That's it. I'm going home.

[Rumpole]

Welcome to China.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

China is now a lot less repressive than Thailand, particularly for Westerners.

[Scott]

This is a sad law, indeed. I seldom go out, rarely drink and NEVER drink and drive. When I do go out though, it is for a relaxing time with friends. I really don't relish the idea of looking over my shoulder or wondering when the police are going to show up and how much it's going to cost for what should be a pleasant evening with friends.

[Sturbuc]

I guess it might be helpful to ban signs to gas-stations from the road to prevent people from driving too fast....

Edited November 23, 2005 by Sturbuc

[phastmike]

democracy? where ?

[ace]

"Finland have a similar arrangement of government run (or authorized, I could nver figure it out even after 30 trips there) liquor stores, coupled with extremely high prices and/or taxes. "

-----------------------------

Lomatopo, I'm not going to qoute your whole post. Or even read it. But ask me who are the most degenerate boozers I ever met, and I'd have to say the Finnish.

It is very difficult to make prohibition work. I wouldn't say impossible, but just about. Especially when there is widespread underground alcohol manafacture & distribution network already in place. And a thirsty populace. Darn, they'll probably try and ban gambling next.

-Ace-

[Thug]

China is messed up.

I remember going there last month and all these commies shouting: 'Rolex! Rolex! Rolex! My friend I have special watch for you!'

Pfff, and they think I thought their stuff they were sellin was real. Hahaha

[cdnvic]

democracy? where  ?

Last year.

Just because the person you don't like won, or you don't like what the elected leaders have done, doesn't mean its not a democracy. Thais knew the TRT were prone to these things and re-elected them anyway by a considerable margin. Now they'll suffer the consequenses (or reap the rewards, depending on your point of view).

cv

[z21rhd]

democracy? where  ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Last year.

Just because the person you don't like won, or you don't like what the elected leaders have done, doesn't mean its not a democracy. Thais knew the TRT were prone to these things and re-elected them anyway by a considerable margin. Now they'll suffer the consequenses (or reap the rewards, depending on your point of view).

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Last Updated: Thursday, 24 November 2005, 07:27 GMT

E-mail this to a friend Printable version

Pubs in new 24-hour opening era

Man on street

Ministers say they are launching a crackdown on alcohol-fuelled crime

Round-the-clock drinking in England and Wales is now a reality after new licensing laws came in force.

More than 1,000 pubs, clubs and supermarkets have been granted 24-hour licences to sell alcohol, according to government figures.

Around 40% of premises applied to vary their licences by either extending their opening by an hour or two or by offering late food and entertainment.

It has led to fears disorder will put more pressure on police and hospitals.

But Culture Secretary Tessa Jowell told BBC Newsnight the new law was necessary "to make it possible for the vast majority of people who drink but who never get into trouble to have more freedom as to when they drink".

"But also, to give the police the powers that they need to tackle the problem we have as a country of alcohol-related crime and violence," she said.

'Stretched' resources

Meanwhile, Home Secretary Charles Clarke said recorded crime was set to rise as police resources targeted alcohol-fuelled offences.

"We are determined to tackle alcohol-related violence and anti-social behaviour in all its forms and crack down on those who encourage it by irresponsible retailing," he said.

Britain's most senior police officer said he was worried his force's resources would be "stretched", particularly in the early hours of the morning.

At last in this country adults are going to be treated like grown-ups and given a little bit of choice about having a social life beyond 11 o'clock at night

Mark Hastings

British Beer and Pub Association

Send us your comments

Met Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said: "I have made clear that I see anybody who wants a drink at four in the morning as a special interest group and those who are making profits out of it are going to have to pay."

BBC research suggests that around one-third of all licensed clubs, pubs and shops in England and Wales will be able to get open for longer under the new laws.

Of the 375 licensing authorities surveyed, 301 responded in full. BBC News 24 researchers found 60,326 outlets can sell alcohol for longer.

But only 1,121, including 359 pubs and clubs, are getting 24-hour licences.

The BBC survey found:

* There have been 60,326 extensions in hours for selling alcohol - this is from 301 of the 375 authorities, so the final figure will be higher

* 1,121 establishments will have 24-hour licences and of these 359 are pubs or clubs

* South East England has the largest number of approved licences - 10,500

* Some 5,200 extensions have been approved in London - but just 14 pubs or clubs can open for 24 hours

* More than 150 pubs or clubs in the south and west of England gained 24-hour licences, with just eight in the West Midlands.

The survey results came after ministers warned the introduction of more relaxed licensing laws on Thursday was likely to lead to an increase in alcohol related arrests.

Meanwhile, the chairman of J D Wetherspoon, Tim Martin, has said up to 90% of his pubs - of which there are over 650 - will stay open for one or two hours later as a result of the new licensing laws in England.

[teelac888]

it's just a little power play joke that has been played many times before.

soon it will be forgotten and everything will be back to normal :-)

[Bottlerocket]

Well, I guess it really does only take one bad egg to ruin a dozen.

I can't understand why they would want to prohibit people from being able to relax at a cafe with a cool drink talking to their friends or whiling away the time. One of the biggest factors to influence the creation of laws like this is the ineffectiveness of their law enforcement agencies. Just arrest drunk drivers and riotous folks--create some consequences for these kinds of actions and wholeheartedly implement them. If you want to reduce under-age drinking, then create a department that sends out agents to buy licqor and when the store doesn't ask you for ID, then fine them; raise the drinking age from 18; draw drunk drivers into lengthy and expensive court battles for their infringements while suspending/revoking their right to drive; any other suggestions? But to create a blanket restriction on everyone will come of no good. The responsible suffer for the ignorant.

[bkk_mike]

Here is something that I ran into from the BBC. I have just repoduced a small section of the news item that I read, and not the entire article.

----------------------------------

Sweden is due to launch an advertising campaign to try to convince the EU that Scandinavia's restrictive alcohol policies produce health benefits.

Sweden's state-controlled alcohol retail system is at odds with EU free trade rules.

Sales are restricted by its alcohol retail monopoly - a system of shops with shorter opening hours and higher prices than in most other EU countries.

As a result, alcohol consumption in Sweden is relatively low.

Anyone buying alcohol in Sweden must be prepared to plan ahead and spend a lot of money.

----------------------------------

If you are interested in the entire article, go to the link below:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4458622.stm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Norway also has the same deal.

Alcohol is VERY expensive and only sold from state-run alcohol shops.

However, even the Norwegians will admit there is a big problem of illicit stills making "moonshine"... (Can't remember the spelling for the Irish word - Potcheen?). I'm sure it's the same in Sweden (should be fairly easy to hide a still in what are fairly large countries, with small populations...)

Given how much easier and less dangerous it is to make beer and wine, than to operate a still - I'm sure there's lots of home-brew going on as well. (and none of that stuff will appear on Scandinavian alcohol consumption charts...)

There was also a huge fuss in these countries when it was announced a few years ago that red wine was actually good for your health. (The people were "sold" the alcohol restrictions as being a public good. Finding out that a side-effect was silly tax rates on something that was suddenly being called healthy didn't look so good.)

Anyway - I have no issues with Thailand introducing alcohol restrictions on religious holidays, or royal occasions. I don't really understand why they'd restrict retail sales on Sundays given that Sundays have no religious significance to Buddhists, but even if they do restrict sales - all that will mean is you buy a large enough quantity that it's classed as wholesale (or buy the day before).

Any thought of closing pubs and bars, or not serving alcohol with meals on Sundays and non-religious holidays (like New Year) - you just need to point out that Christmas and New Years are both on Sundays this year - just imagine the field day the international press could have reporting that tourists couldn't drink wine with their Christmas dinner.

And remember - the press will almost certainly be in Thailand this Christmas, asking tourists what it's like on the anniversary of the Tsunami... I could even see that turning into a yearly boxing day tradition - after all - what journalist from Europe or the colder parts of America wouldn't want a few days in Thailand in December, on expenses...)

[Upcountry]

I agree that it's possible to "plan ahead". That's for folks with the transportation and baht to do so.

From what I can gather, the tourist industry, and the "affluent" are collateral damage.

The point is to discourage the poor guy on a motorcycle and time on his hands from spending it on alcohol on Sundays, holidays and in the mid/late afternoon.

[phibunmike]

We support the new rules, not because we are killjoys or don't drink alcohol. But Thailand needs severe measures on a number of issues including unlawful cigarette availability, alcohol consumption hours, driving habits etc. Perhaps after Thailand has conformed to these laws, things can be relaxed a little. But for now it's necessary. Thailand aspires to First World status. It's not the economy and poverty alone which will decide this issue.

Now let's see some severe enforcement of the highway code, punitive punishments for motorcycles driving on pavements, driving the wrong way down one way streets, speeding etc., with the police to set the right example.

The pills necessary to put this country right are hard to swallow, but they are making a start. For one beauracrats are doping a good job. Keep it up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you've forgotten to take your pills.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are wrong P&M: I lived a few years in South Africa where there are limited hours for buyijg alcohol - at the supermarket checkout they accept your steaks, bread and salad, but reject the wine in your basket because it is the "wrong time of day". The result ? I have never seen a country with more drunks on the street, decorating the pavements, adorning shop doorways....

As for the idea that it is better to get drunk on a weekday than a sunday, I don't see the logic.

Sure, we can plan ahead for weekend bbqs at home - but what about going out for a sunday brunch or quiet dinner in a restaurant on a sunday evening ? It's madness and, as others have stated, a backward step.

(BTW, sorry I forget who mentioned it, its "poitin" in Ireland)

[Greer]

Well as I've said before - this is the same logic that closes bars at 1am to stop underage drinking and drug taking...obviously underage people only drink and take drugs after 1am, so close the bars at 1 and they can't do it any more!

If they close the bars on Sunday it stops people from buying drink, so no-one will get drunk - except that if a person has an alcohol problem, they will simply buy up big before closing time the day before and drink themselves into a stupor that lasts from sun-up to sun-down on Sunday - that way they don't need to face the prospect of having to suffer a day without drink - what I am saying is that it will make no diffence to those who have a problem.

The real pain will be felt by legitimate businesses providing a service to the many thousands of people who may wish to partake of a drink on a Sunday - not going out getting rolling drunk - just a drink in the afternoon among friends, or a glass or two over lunch or dinner - and tourism will feel this - absolutely no doubt about that - will it have an effect? I have no idea how much, but yes I really think it will.

It's been proven plenty of times in many different cultures - try to stop people from doing something and it goes underground and all hope of societal control goes out the window.

Edited December 1, 2005 by Greer

[zzap]

Can't remember the spelling for the Irish word - Potcheen?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Potgin.

What is surprising, is that the small clandestine upcountry destilleries have been legalised during the 'Toxin' reign (as long as they pay taxes), yet alcohol sales are increasingly restricted.

Doesn't seem to be 'dangerous', either, the farmers destill in their backyards with an old oil barrel and without thermometer or anything else...

Needless to say, they do not conform to the tax laws nor licensing hours...

"Strange" indeed, I wouldn't seek any logic in this, except, they had to offer an alternative after the various crackdowns on 'drugs'.

Sure, moonshine is better for you than a spliff!

[Donnyboy]

Once in force, the law will also ban trading of alcoholic drinks during public holidays and Sundays.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So no more Sunday evening in the pub watching the F1 then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The law doesnt state whether alcohol brought from home to the pub or restaurant is allowed, it simply states that the outlets cannot trade (sell)....I wonder if the pub will let you bring your own beers!!

[MikeRay]

What I wonder about sometimes how important is alcohol to Expats?

I do understand that it is for some people a way to spend their holiday, but for people living there?If one wants to socialize and drink alcohol so choose another day, if it´s on a banned day and you need to drink alcohol, meet at home.

Sure it´s bad for trade and business, but people who want to drink find their way anyways.

I´m a really addicted smoker and to handle with no smoking policy doesn´t keep me off restaurants.Though the tabac sales ban forced me to buy way more cigarettes than usually need.

Edited December 2, 2005 by MikeRay

[Firefan]

I wonder why people here seem to keep mixing up the rules for RETAIL sales (supermarkets or what have we) and bars/restaurants? The new rules does not apply to the last category.

Yeah, a few policemen/lower gov people have misunderstood it too and given weird quotes and orders but only out of fear of "doing something wrong".

Cheers!

[NedKelly]

Haven't read much of the posts here....too many...but what about the way Beer Ch. (DONT WANT TO ADVERTISE IT) makes a big thing of giving blankets to the 'poor' hilltibe people......blankets with their logos all over it.....and then proceeds to advertise the fact all year until the next cool season.......this makes me puke endlessly.......seriously how faaarking patronising is this ??? You A-holes...@@

Why worry about anything that a Thai government ministry attempts to do? Basically its all face saving/making dribble done by do gooders dreessed in sunday best. Even by Thai standards they look stupid.