Thai Police To Question Ex-Pm Over Protest Deaths

[phiphidon]

Present government wants to give Thaksin a pardon/amnesty as part of a reconciliation process but get its police to question previous goverments leader over protest deaths. Seems like it's reconciliation for one but not the other......

If they manage to make any charges stick to Abhisit then there maybe a "we'll pardon yours if you pardon ours" deal.....

If reconcilliation was on Abhisits mind he had a strange way of showing it -

I never said it was........

Please tell me if I am mistaken but this investigation is regarding the first thirteen people killed in last years events.

I have no idea as I never brought anything like that up in my post......

As for the rest of your post please explain what it has to do with what I wrote.......if you want to stand on a soap-box please get off mine and get your own........

Your first line talks about this government wanting a amnesty for Thaksin as part of the reconciliation process but then wants the police to investigate Abhisit, as if they didn't have a right to.

I was explaining what Abhisits version of "reconciliation" was and WHY Abhisit being questioned is a requisite of reconciliation precisely pointing out that it is NOT a case of reconciliation for one but not the other. Rather this government is pursuing reconciliation more ardently then Abhisit ever did.

You cannot have reconciliation if you refuse to investigate the events of last year, by BOTH sides

Do you understand now?

[tlansford]

Regardless of what happened, when last year, it is for me unconscionable for a gov't (any gov't) to use lethal force against its own citizens.

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

Honestly, I think many more would have died. In the absence of the Army, vested money interests in Bangkok would have formed their own private militias IMO. Maybe with some of the same goons the Red Shirts bought. With the endless rhetoric to turn Bangkok into a "sea of fire" coming from the stage, it could have turned out much much worse. Sincerely.

I did not say that the army should not have been active, just not have used lethal force. The govt & army had many options, all of which were IMO better than using lethal force.

[FOODLOVER]

I am just a layman but isn't the fact that black uniformed AK47 armed in the crowd have something to do with it ?.

From photos I've seen in several newspapers, there were guys wearing all black and hoods with rifles running together with the army. The Japanese journalist probably catched them on camera and was therefor shot.

Even monks were abused by the army. If monks were treated this way, imagine how the ordinary citizen was treated.

Got any proof of that.

And I mean reliable proof, not just a friend of a friend said or the vitriolic ramblings of a red madman.

'Even monks were abused by the army. If monks were treated this way, imagine how the ordinary citizen was treated'.

"Two monks on a pilgrimage along with their attendant got drunk on whisky, burned a dog alive and then ate it, threw the dog's owner onto the fire, and fled into the woods.>Officers from Pattaya Police Station along with Sawang Boriboon Foundation rescuers were called out during the afternoon of May 27 to a wooded grove opposite Betong Fishing Park on Soi Momluang Chuenjai Restaurant, in Naklua Sub-district.

http://www.thailandq...og-attack-owner

Not all monks are created equal. (Not the Gentlemen pictured.)

Edited November 29, 2011 by FOODLOVER

[tlansford]

- snip -

The government of most countries use lethal force against criminals every day. Sometimes those associating with the criminals get caught in the cross fire and sometimes innocents do too.

First, they were protesters.

And their insincere sign and insincere monks are rock-solid proof of that:

F

Second, what is your point?

That Red Shirt violence begets a strong reaction.

those monks look really dangerous...

[yoshiwara]

Sickening that many people still blame the man in Dubai for all the faults in Thailand. In fact, very boring and sickening.

So maybe Thaksin advised Arisman not to organise the red violence?

[Thaddeus]

There's some fools on this thread basically saying "well Taksin's done a runner so why should Abhisit be questioned?" Errrr hello 90 people are dead under what was Abhisit's watch and he's here now so he should be questioned and if there's evidence against him he should be held to account. I think it's called "the Law" or something?

And there are also a number of people who are insistent that Abhisit should be prosecuted, whilst avoiding the issue of Thaksins War on Drugs, that not only happened on his watch, it was with his direct orders.

Do you think he should be held to account for all the deaths he created, it's called "The Law" or something.

Oh.... no, they just momentarily suspend that law for the benefit of one man while trying to hang the other one.

[yoshiwara]

those monks look really dangerous...

About as dangerous as that kid waved around on the barricades.

Useful tools for a progressively dangerous force.

[billd766]

Regardless of what happened, when last year, it is for me unconscionable for a gov't (any gov't) to use lethal force against its own citizens.

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

I agree with you but I am apolitical.

However in the interests of no double standards how many years back should inquiries go into governments using lethal force against their own citizens?

2010,2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, 2000 or even before that and should ALL prime ministers be liable for deaths incurred that they were in power?

[hyperdimension]

Suthep, Prayuth and Abhisit should be handed over to the ICC.

Not Prayuth he was following orders. Now if a previous coalition mp, of the Abhisit regime claims he was made an offer he could not refuse then we must presume somebody cobbled together the previous administration. If we agree with that then its only a short step to correctly assuming that somebody, at this point not proven, gave orders to Abhisit in dealing with the unrest. So replace Prayuth with ??????

The "Invisible hand"? Is that what the Red Shirts' struggle really is about?

[hyperdimension]

Have the police also questioned the people in these video excerpts of Thaksin and other red shirt leaders?:

Source:

A lot of other information and evidence of the events are shown in these videos:

Media Conference from Thai Government 23 May 2010 (Part 1)

Media Conference from Thai Government 23 May 2010 (Part 2)

Media Conference from Thai Government 23 May 2010 (Part 3)

Thailand Crisis May 2010 Subtitles (1/3)

Thailand Crisis May 2010 Subtitles (2/3)

Thailand Crisis May 2010 Subtitles (3/3)

Edited November 29, 2011 by hyperdimension

[phiphidon]

I'm not trying to score points here, I'm asking because I really don't know. The photgraphs of the Black Shirts on April 10th show them carrying Army type weaponry. If both sides have Army type weaponry how does one establish which group fired at the dead person. I'm sure you can try to reconstruct angles and trajectories, but what else gives a clear indication of culpability?

In the case of the Reuters cameraman he was shot in the chest with an exit wound in his back indicating he was facing the person who shot him. Eyewitnesses have stated that he was shot from the direction of the Army - Suthep in one of his justifications said that it was redshirts who were behind the army at the time that shot Muramoto - I think this was at the time that an AK47 round was supposed to have been involved. This implies that a red shirt has mingled with the army whilst carrying an AK47 and shot through the army lines at Muramoto with nobody noticing. Even if we go along with the line that it was a black shirt mingling with the army firing a M16 is that any more credible?

Let's for once, just accept that the eyewitnesses saw what they saw and the cameraman was shot through the chest by the army as DSI Chief Tharit stated on September 17th 2011. Now if a cameraman has been shot and killed by the army there is a good chance that several other people (redshirts) have been shot and killed as well by the army. On April 10th in the Panfah area 5 soldiers were killed, and 21 civilians, at least 8 of the civilians were shot in the head.

http://www.nationmul...--30145106.html

http://www.channelne...1153778/1/.html

You may be right, or wrong, I can't say as I'm not equipped with the specific facts nor a video that might bias my opinion. I DO remember however that there was a video of that very same melee where a Red Shirt had his head blown off and the angle that his brains shot out and direction of fall would seem to indicate the shot came from behind his own lines. Other Red Shirts immediately adjacent to the poor dead guy immediately turned to look behind them, seeming to indicate they thought that was the direction the bullet came from. Got any intelligence on that one?

And while you're ruminating on that maybe you can answer why all those Red Shirt bodies were subsequently stolen from the hospital prior to there being any autopsies conducted on them.

You asked a question - I answered it truthfully using information readily available in the media and online. I am not going to go through every scenario with you as you can do the same as I did - Google - and then if you don't have a reasonable answer you're going to have to wait until the results of the investigations are available. I am not privy to any insider knowledge and rely instead on an enquiring mind.

[hyperdimension]

Have the police also questioned the people in these video excerpts of Thaksin and other red shirt leaders?:

Source:

To make it easy for the police, here's the list of people in that video:

Thaksin Shinawatra

Arisman Pongruangrong

Nattawut Saikua

Jatuporn Prompan

Veera Musikhapong

I hope one day they will at least start to go through this list.

[dominique355]

Regardless of what happened, when last year, it is for me unconscionable for a gov't (any gov't) to use lethal force against its own citizens.

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

Honestly, I think many more would have died. In the absence of the Army, vested money interests in Bangkok would have formed their own private militias IMO. Maybe with some of the same goons the Red Shirts bought. With the endless rhetoric to turn Bangkok into a "sea of fire" coming from the stage, it could have turned out much much worse. Sincerely.

I did not say that the army should not have been active, just not have used lethal force. The govt & army had many options, all of which were IMO better than using lethal force.

Such as ...?

Haven't you followed the events at that time? Abhisit practically surrendered to the Reds, but they kept asking for more and more a soon as their demands were met, making it abundantly clear that they had no intention to end this conflict.

Then they were given an ultimatum to evacuate and this ultimatum was extended and extended...

There is a point when the government's monopoly of force can no longer tolerate the blatant breaking of the law and it MUST intervene, any other solution would lead to chaos and anarchy.

IMO Abhisit has been the nice guy way too long and with his patience actually made the situation even worse, because his "fairness" in dealing with the Reds was met with contempt and was seen as weakness.

If these Reds did not obey orders from the Police or the Military to evacuate, but instead continued their rioting and burning down buildings, physical force by the Military was more than justified. In fact, that's exactly what the Reds were looking for. And physical force was perceived by the Reds as helping their cause but since there was not enough of it, they sent in the Men in Black, to stir up the soup.

We have seen how since the Reds have distorted the truth and evaded accountability and responsibility.

[OzMick]

Regardless of what happened, when last year, it is for me unconscionable for a gov't (any gov't) to use lethal force against its own citizens.

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

Honestly, I think many more would have died. In the absence of the Army, vested money interests in Bangkok would have formed their own private militias IMO. Maybe with some of the same goons the Red Shirts bought. With the endless rhetoric to turn Bangkok into a "sea of fire" coming from the stage, it could have turned out much much worse. Sincerely.

I did not say that the army should not have been active, just not have used lethal force. The govt & army had many options, all of which were IMO better than using lethal force.

Well Tom you certainly are an armchair hero. I cordially invite you to tell me when YOU have stood your ground while you and your comrades were being attacked with rifle-fire and launched grenades without using lethal force in response. Personally, I admit to being so cowardly that I would respond with aimed shots to the centre of the body mass of anybody seen carrying a weapon.

[yoshiwara]

Have the police also questioned the people in these video excerpts of Thaksin and other red shirt leaders?:

Source:

To make it easy for the police, here's the list of people in that video:

Thaksin Shinawatra

Arisman Pongruangrong

Nattawut Saikua

Jatuporn Prompan

Veera Musikhapong

I hope one day they will at least start to go through this list.

What you forget to add is the largest group, the so-called 'peaceful reds' who comprised the audience and politely applauded.

They provided the cover. Not to be arrested...or whitewashed either by some of our friendly forum red cheerleaders.

But they try. Again and again.

Edited November 29, 2011 by yoshiwara

[Buchholz]

I am just a layman but isn't the fact that black uniformed AK47 armed in the crowd have something to do with it ?.

From photos I've seen in several newspapers, there were guys wearing all black and hoods with rifles running together with the army. The Japanese journalist probably catched them on camera and was therefor shot.

Even monks were abused by the army. If monks were treated this way, imagine how the ordinary citizen was treated.

Got any proof of that.

And I mean reliable proof, not just a friend of a friend said or the vitriolic ramblings of a red madman.

'Even monks were abused by the army. If monks were treated this way, imagine how the ordinary citizen was treated'.

"Two monks on a pilgrimage along with their attendant got drunk on whisky, burned a dog alive and then ate it, threw the dog's owner onto the fire, and fled into the woods.>Officers from Pattaya Police Station along with Sawang Boriboon Foundation rescuers were called out during the afternoon of May 27 to a wooded grove opposite Betong Fishing Park on Soi Momluang Chuenjai Restaurant, in Naklua Sub-district.

http://www.thailandq...og-attack-owner

Not all monks are created equal. (Not the Gentlemen pictured.)

Traits that reflect the differences between real monks and Red Shirt monks :

Left: [He] has left lusts

Right: [He] is encircled with lusts

Left: Isolating

Right: Joining the argument

Left: An unambitious life

Right: A despicable life

.

[Buchholz]

First, they were protesters.

And their insincere sign and insincere monks are rock-solid proof of that:

Second, what is your point?

That Red Shirt violence begets a strong reaction.

those monks look really dangerous...

The Red Shirt Guards masquerading as fake monks actually are really dangerous.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Buchholz

[rubl]

A lot of civilians were killed when the Red shirts attacked the multi coloured shirts or granade attacked BTS stations ect.

Just to clarify.

On April 223nd, 2010 the (five) grenade attack which missed the multi-shirt protesters and/or Silom vendors, but hit BTS Saladaeng instead. Sadly one person died, a Thai lady and around 80 people were wounded.

[metisdead]

A post containing a graphic gory video has been removed.

[phiphidon]

Traits that reflect the differences between real monks and Red Shirt monks :

Left: [He] has left lusts

Right: [He] is encircled with lusts

Left: Isolating

Right: Joining the argument

Left: An unambitious life

Right: A despicable life

.

Boy, you really bought into the propaganda didn't you.

Edited November 29, 2011 by phiphidon

[Buchholz]

Traits that reflect the differences between real monks and Red Shirt monks :

Left: [He] has left lusts

Right: [He] is encircled with lusts

Left: Isolating

Right: Joining the argument

Left: An unambitious life

Right: A despicable life

Boy, you really bought into the propaganda didn't you.

Do you buy into the propaganda that MrFarang bought into about about Red Shirt monks being real monks that were victimized?

.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Buchholz

[tlansford]

Traits that reflect the differences between real monks and Red Shirt monks :

Left: [He] has left lusts

Right: [He] is encircled with lusts

Left: Isolating

Right: Joining the argument

Left: An unambitious life

Right: A despicable life

Boy, you really bought into the propaganda didn't you.

Do you buy into the propaganda that MrFarang bought into about about Red Shirt monks being real monks that were victimized?

.

have you ever been to the temple which was destroyed? Real temple (beautiful, too) and real monks. With a very small bookshop that would enable you to learn more about Buddhism than from the pictures you posted.

The conversation is about the police questioning the ex-pm over the protests. You may find the monk pictures funny, or even relevant. Knowing this temple, and knowing more than a couple of Buddhist monks, I find it to be in very poor taste.

[Buchholz]

What I find distasteful is the malarkey of the Red Shirts demeaning the monkhood with the examples provided.

[csolgosz]

Flip Flop now on other foot...maybe time to do a runner back home to Newcastle....Job Center Plus waiting and available....So what wos yer last job?

One of the few posts here worth reading.

Some (edited) here can't think past their obsession with Thaksin. The documented fact that troops fired into a temple killing people including a nurse and an Italian photographer is nothing to do with that. Abby should certainly get his running shoes on. Will the same people who decry Thaksin's absence and applaud the court's decision against him then post that he should come back and face justice if he is charged with a criminal offense by Thai courts...? LMAO at the old farts here with their hackneyed and pathetic repetitions.

Next poster: "Well Thaksin was corrupt and people got killed in the war on drugs etc, the others are nice people and just tried to maintain justice." ....?

Maybe check into Suthep's and Newin's credentials and you wouldn't bother using the word 'corrupt' in relation to Thailand again.

Edited November 30, 2011 by Scott
profanity edited out

[Thaddeus]

Flip Flop now on other foot...maybe time to do a runner back home to Newcastle....Job Center Plus waiting and available....So what wos yer last job?

One of the few posts here worth reading.

Some (edited) here can't think past their obsession with Thaksin. The documented fact that troops fired into a temple killing people including a nurse and an Italian photographer is nothing to do with that. Abby should certainly get his running shoes on. Will the same people who decry Thaksin's absence and applaud the court's decision against him then post that he should come back and face justice if he is charged with a criminal offense by Thai courts...? LMAO at the old farts here with their hackneyed and pathetic repetitions.

Next poster: "Well Thaksin was corrupt and people got killed in the war on drugs etc, the others are nice people and just tried to maintain justice." ....?

Maybe check into Suthep's and Newin's credentials and you wouldn't bother using the word 'corrupt' in relation to Thailand again.

I bet you know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall.

[TAWP]

Regardless of what happened, when last year, it is for me unconscionable for a gov't (any gov't) to use lethal force against its own citizens.

I hardly expect many people here on TVF to agree with that, but ask yourself how many people would have died if the Army had NOT used lethal force?

Your solution is to arm police-officers with whistles and have them kindly ask the rioters to stop shooting them or lobbing M-79 grenades into BTS-stations etc?

[TAWP]

Military governments always use lethal force against their civilian opposition, Pinochet did in Argentina, Sadaam in Iraq, Gaddafi in Libya and currently Assad in Syria.

So the killings in Bangkok simply demonstrated that the Abhisit government was a military proxy, which we knew anyway.

So PPP was a military government too?

*sigh*

[elcent]

Have the police also questioned the people in these video excerpts of Thaksin and other red shirt leaders?:

Source:

A lot of other information and evidence of the events are shown in these videos:

Media Conference from Thai Government 23 May 2010 (Part 1)

Media Conference from Thai Government 23 May 2010 (Part 2)

Media Conference from Thai Government 23 May 2010 (Part 3)

Thailand Crisis May 2010 Subtitles (1/3)

Thailand Crisis May 2010 Subtitles (2/3)

Thailand Crisis May 2010 Subtitles (3/3)

nice summary, thanks.

[elcent]

forgotten victims and dancing thugs after each attack

[tlansford]

Have the police also questioned the people in these video excerpts of Thaksin and other red shirt leaders?:

Source:

A lot of other information and evidence of the events are shown in these videos:

Media Conference from Thai Government 23 May 2010 (Part 1)

Media Conference from Thai Government 23 May 2010 (Part 2)

Media Conference from Thai Government 23 May 2010 (Part 3)

Thailand Crisis May 2010 Subtitles (1/3)

Thailand Crisis May 2010 Subtitles (2/3)

Thailand Crisis May 2010 Subtitles (3/3)

nice summary, thanks.

so the gov't and the military blamed the red shirts for all the violence.

What didn't we know before??