Tax On Uk Pension

[MAJIC]

You might save a bit of tax but problems could arise in the future regarding health care in the UK and increments in the state pension. We never know what's round the corner and once the government knows you are no longer a UK resident it'll do all it can to save a few quid. A friend of mine recently had a heart attack in Pattaya, his bill came to 13,500 GBPs and that was just having a few stents inserted not a bypass operation. He is back in the UK now and seems OK now but learned an expensive and important lesson for the future.

He was considering retiring to Hua Hin but has now changed his mind. Or you could say a change of heart.

A heart by pass here you are looking at 30k up.

Dont burn your bridges and I think tax in the UK .

is 20% so now you are 5% better off already

Whent hey know you are here, they will also freeze your inflation increases on your state pension for you as well, so plan carefully, you might consider defering your pension every year you do they will increase it by 10.4% plus the annual increase and dont take the lump sum offered its not cost effective!

Defering your UK State Pension for a year, will only give you a 5% increase,and if you sit and work out the benefit of the extra 5% for the rest of your life,you will find out that it will take 10 years of receiving your State Pension to break even! so you will not start making a profit on the deal until you are 76,the average life span of UK Males last time I looked it up was 72. It's all designed by the Politicians to make a final profit on you (and cover up their years of Pension F**CK**S ) before you pop your clogs.

The whole deal is not worth considering,unless your family has an history of extreme longevity.

Edited December 2, 2011 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

However the UK taxation for Retirees (65 years old) is £9940 Annual Allowances (exempt from taxes)

And It is against the law not to declare that you are non resident in the UK.

Whilst it's true that the age related personal allowance is £9940, it's important to point out that this allowance reduce where the income is above the income limit for age-related allowances by £1 for every £2 of income above the limit so us oldies can revert to the standard personal allowance.

I'm not sure that it's against the law to declare you're non-resident in the UK, but what is against the law is to claim the increases, and various other benefits, when you are not entitled as you are living in Thailand, which I assume is what you meant.

As a matter of interest the Thai tax rules can be found by opening this link. http://www.rd.go.th/...ish/6045.0.html

We are not too far apart in our interpretation of UK Rules and Current Legislation, the main one being that: "you must declare a change in circumstances" so going abroad to live would be a major change. which would mean that you would not be entitled to annual increases in the State Pension,of which we both agree on. So not declaring that you no longer live in the UK,would be against the law,and may at a later date,cause more problems than it is worth.

In reality there is no problem,with having your UK Pension paid directly into a Thai Bank!

[exeter]

Well

You might save a bit of tax but problems could arise in the future regarding health care in the UK and increments in the state pension. We never know what's round the corner and once the government knows you are no longer a UK resident it'll do all it can to save a few quid. A friend of mine recently had a heart attack in Pattaya, his bill came to 13,500 GBPs and that was just having a few stents inserted not a bypass operation. He is back in the UK now and seems OK now but learned an expensive and important lesson for the future.

He was considering retiring to Hua Hin but has now changed his mind. Or you could say a change of heart.

A heart by pass here you are looking at 30k up.

Dont burn your bridges and I think tax in the UK .

is 20% so now you are 5% better off already

Whent hey know you are here, they will also freeze your inflation increases on your state pension for you as well, so plan carefully, you might consider defering your pension every year you do they will increase it by 10.4% plus the annual increase and dont take the lump sum offered its not cost effective!

Defering your UK State Pension for a year, will only give you a 5% increase,and if you sit and work out the benefit of the extra 5% for the rest of your life,you will find out that it will take 10 years of receiving your State Pension to break even! so you will not start making a profit on the deal until you are 76,the average life span of UK Males last time I looked it up was 72. It's all designed by the Politicians to make a final profit on you (and cover up their years of Pension F**CK**S ) before you pop your clogs.

The whole deal is not worth considering,unless your family has an history of extreme longevity.

Well no one knows when we die so we have to make a guess, me I am hoping for 90+ so its worth thinking about maybe for a few years and after the initial hardship and the break even point I would look forward to knowing that every year past that point I was screwing the Govt instaed of the other year round :jap: Each to his own,

Edited December 3, 2011 by exeter

[exeter]

With the current political uncertainy here I would certainly not pulling up all your roots, you never know and it might not be so easy to return thing to the previous situation.

[billd766]

With the current political uncertainy here I would certainly not pulling up all your roots, you never know and it might not be so easy to return thing to the previous situation.

I pulled up all my roots years ago and invested in Thailand and in return I got a very good wife, a great son, somewhere good to live and few problems.

If I ever went back to the UK I would have nowhere to live, (ex-wife got the house, jump through a zillion hoops to get my wife over, my son has dual nationality.

I have a son and grandson over there and a few friends.

We/I would miss the food, weather, comfort, wife's family and everything else we have here.

For me it isn't worth thinking about.

I suppose on the good side in the UK I would get the pension increases and a free bus pass.

[nong38]

You might save a bit of tax but problems could arise in the future regarding health care in the UK and increments in the state pension. We never know what's round the corner and once the government knows you are no longer a UK resident it'll do all it can to save a few quid. A friend of mine recently had a heart attack in Pattaya, his bill came to 13,500 GBPs and that was just having a few stents inserted not a bypass operation. He is back in the UK now and seems OK now but learned an expensive and important lesson for the future.

He was considering retiring to Hua Hin but has now changed his mind. Or you could say a change of heart.

A heart by pass here you are looking at 30k up.

Dont burn your bridges and I think tax in the UK .

is 20% so now you are 5% better off already

Whent hey know you are here, they will also freeze your inflation increases on your state pension for you as well, so plan carefully, you might consider defering your pension every year you do they will increase it by 10.4% plus the annual increase and dont take the lump sum offered its not cost effective!

Defering your UK State Pension for a year, will only give you a 5% increase,and if you sit and work out the benefit of the extra 5% for the rest of your life,you will find out that it will take 10 years of receiving your State Pension to break even! so you will not start making a profit on the deal until you are 76,the average life span of UK Males last time I looked it up was 72. It's all designed by the Politicians to make a final profit on you (and cover up their years of Pension F**CK**S ) before you pop your clogs.

The whole deal is not worth considering,unless your family has an history of extreme longevity.

Defering your pension for year gives you 10.4% + annual increase which this coming year will be 5.2% so how you get that to be 5% I do not know, it looks like 15.6% to me. Every year you defer you get 10,4%. You can defer in 5 week chunks. You can decide between a lump sum ( not recommended ) or an enhanced pension for life, look at the figures and see what you think.

[nong38]

With the current political uncertainy here I would certainly not pulling up all your roots, you never know and it might not be so easy to return thing to the previous situation.

I pulled up all my roots years ago and invested in Thailand and in return I got a very good wife, a great son, somewhere good to live and few problems.

If I ever went back to the UK I would have nowhere to live, (ex-wife got the house, jump through a zillion hoops to get my wife over, my son has dual nationality.

I have a son and grandson over there and a few friends.

We/I would miss the food, weather, comfort, wife's family and everything else we have here.

For me it isn't worth thinking about.

I suppose on the good side in the UK I would get the pension increases and a free bus pass.

You forgot about the excellent real ales but they would cost you more than a Leo! Yorkshire pudding perhaps? Steak and Kidney Pie? Cant tempt you back then?

[MAJIC]

You might save a bit of tax but problems could arise in the future regarding health care in the UK and increments in the state pension. We never know what's round the corner and once the government knows you are no longer a UK resident it'll do all it can to save a few quid. A friend of mine recently had a heart attack in Pattaya, his bill came to 13,500 GBPs and that was just having a few stents inserted not a bypass operation. He is back in the UK now and seems OK now but learned an expensive and important lesson for the future.

He was considering retiring to Hua Hin but has now changed his mind. Or you could say a change of heart.

A heart by pass here you are looking at 30k up.

Dont burn your bridges and I think tax in the UK .

is 20% so now you are 5% better off already

Whent hey know you are here, they will also freeze your inflation increases on your state pension for you as well, so plan carefully, you might consider defering your pension every year you do they will increase it by 10.4% plus the annual increase and dont take the lump sum offered its not cost effective!

Defering your UK State Pension for a year, will only give you a 5% increase,and if you sit and work out the benefit of the extra 5% for the rest of your life,you will find out that it will take 10 years of receiving your State Pension to break even! so you will not start making a profit on the deal until you are 76,the average life span of UK Males last time I looked it up was 72. It's all designed by the Politicians to make a final profit on you (and cover up their years of Pension F**CK**S ) before you pop your clogs.

The whole deal is not worth considering,unless your family has an history of extreme longevity.

Defering your pension for year gives you 10.4% + annual increase which this coming year will be 5.2% so how you get that to be 5% I do not know, it looks like 15.6% to me. Every year you defer you get 10,4%. You can defer in 5 week chunks. You can decide between a lump sum ( not recommended ) or an enhanced pension for life, look at the figures and see what you think.

Yes you are correct it is 10.4% increase in Pension by defering (I don't know where I got 5% from either?) even so, deferring for 1 year would still take 10 years to recoup and break even,future increases would not affect that or indeed inflation,as both would have happened anyway,with or without the choice of defering. I don't think you can include the 5.2% increase in April as an extra bonus in the equation either? (everybody gets it,defered or not) but i'm prepared to listen to another angle?

Also the Lump Sum Option,is payable at 2% above Base Rate,which initialy doesn't sound that bad really,although it would need an in depth calculation,comparing the 2 options before deciding.

[prakhonchai nick]

For every 5 weeks that you defer your UK state pension, an increase of 1% is added. In addition regardless of living in Thailand, the pension is increased by the annual increase (Next April 5.2% CPI increase), until such time as it is taken. Once claimed, the pension is frozen.

Bear in mind though that whilst deferring, you receive NOTHING. Currently you would receive circa GBP100 every week. Over a 5 year deferral period you will NOT have received more than GBP26,000, and even with an increased pension later, recouping that sort of money will take a long time, provided you survive that long.

Take into account exchange rates now, and in the future (unknown), + the fact that if you take the pension now, (even if not needed) it can be invested.

I did this exercise some years ago, and decided to go for a 5 week deferral as my 65th birthday fell just short of the 5th April pension increase. This short deferral with the resultant loss of 5 weeks pension, took me 2 years to recoup.

I would not recommend anyone to defer for more than 5 weeks for similar circumstances to mine.

[theoldgit]

[quote name='prakhonchai nick' timestamp='1322947713' post='4889191' For every 5 weeks that you defer your UK state pension, an increase of 1% is added. In addition regardless of living in Thailand, the pension is increased by the annual increase (Next April 5.2% CPI increase), until such time as it is taken. Once claimed, the pension is frozen

I did this exercise some years ago, and decided to go for a 5 week deferral as my 65th birthday fell just short of the 5th April pension increase.

This short deferral with the resultant loss of 5 weeks pension, took me 2 years to recoup.

That's interesting, I'm due to receive my State Pension next year and as my birthday is two weeks before the uplift day I considered a one off five week deferral. I called the relevant department in Newcastle for a quote and while I was on the phone asked that if I deferred would I receive the new rate, the lass advised me that I would only receive the rate applicable when I reached State Pension age. Earlier advice on this forum indicates that this advice was not accurate, and your experience adds to this doubt.

I fired off an email a couple of weeks ago asking for a definitive answer, I still await a reply. It's such a pity that these helpline operatives cannot give the correct answer in the first place, people need accurate advice if they are going to plan their future.

I'm still minded to defer for five weeks but I'm also thinking "a bird in the hand", I believe it would add a tad over six quid to my pension and take about 69 weeks to break even.

Thankfully I'm in receipt of a Civil Service Pension which is uplifted where ever you live in the world.

[meatboy]

i deffered my state pension for 1year,but what you got to remember is if you take it as a lump sum it is added to any other income you recieve in that tax year so if you are over the threshold of your personel allowance of just under £10,000you will be taxed on it,over 5years x20%=£5,200.before 1years allow.

[prakhonchai nick]

That's interesting, I'm due to receive my State Pension next year and as my birthday is two weeks before the uplift day I considered a one off five week deferral. I called the relevant department in Newcastle for a quote and while I was on the phone asked that if I deferred would I receive the new rate, the lass advised me that I would only receive the rate applicable when I reached State Pension age. Earlier advice on this forum indicates that this advice was not accurate, and your experience adds to this doubt.

I fired off an email a couple of weeks ago asking for a definitive answer, I still await a reply. It's such a pity that these helpline operatives cannot give the correct answer in the first place, people need accurate advice if they are going to plan their future.

I'm still minded to defer for five weeks but I'm also thinking "a bird in the hand", I believe it would add a tad over six quid to my pension and take about 69 weeks to break even.

Thankfully I'm in receipt of a Civil Service Pension which is uplifted where ever you live in the world.

You will receive the pension in force from when you claim- NOT your 65th birthday.

If you defer for 5 weeks for a weekly increase of approx GBP6, it will take you nearer 2 years to recoup -not 69 weeks. Bear in mind also that the state pension added to your civil service pension will almost certainly mean you have to pay tax (if not already) and you will lose 20% of any combined income over the personal allowance. Hence it will take longer to recoup the lost 5 weeks pension.

If you think you will live for an additional 2 years then I suggest you defer.

Note also that if you have a wife, upon your demise she would receive bereavement benefits, and they will benefit too from the deferral.

NOTE The pension Dept regularly provide false information. Those that were eligible to receive the dependents allowance (until April 2010) were regularly told they could not claim because either they of their wife were not in the UK. TOTALLY UNTRUE, and everyone who requested my assistance received this allowance (worth approx 1.5million baht over the 10 year period it is payable!)

[theoldgit]

If you defer for 5 weeks for a weekly increase of approx GBP6, it will take you nearer 2 years to recoup -not 69 weeks. Bear in mind also that the state pension added to your civil service pension will almost certainly mean you have to pay tax (if not already) and you will lose 20% of any combined income over the personal allowance. Hence it will take longer to recoup the lost 5 weeks pension

Thanks for that.

You are of course correct, I really shouldn't attempt straight forward caclulations at this time on a Sunday morning - or at least I should check them before I even think about posting.

I am already paying tax on my Civil Service Pension so I will lose 20% on all of my State Pension, and of course I will not benefit from the age related personal allowance.

[nong38]

MAJIC, the magic figure is 10 years. The lump sum becomes a bad option if you live longer than that whilst the increase weekly amount means you will be better off with that option.

I defered my pension from last August so by April 2012 my increase works out at 12% ( 2.3rd of 10.4% + 5.2%. I leave it for another year 10.4% + 3.2% ( my guess) and maybe one more year should give my total increase for life up to about 38-40% higher than if I had started claiming. It will be tough for a period but in the longer run ok for me. Everyone has a unique situation and circumstances vary so whats suits me may not suit anyone else. The 10.4% does not apply to SERPS or any previous add ons.:jap:

[prakhonchai nick]

If you defer for 5 weeks for a weekly increase of approx GBP6, it will take you nearer 2 years to recoup -not 69 weeks. Bear in mind also that the state pension added to your civil service pension will almost certainly mean you have to pay tax (if not already) and you will lose 20% of any combined income over the personal allowance. Hence it will take longer to recoup the lost 5 weeks pension

Thanks for that.

You are of course correct, I really shouldn't attempt straight forward caclulations at this time on a Sunday morning - or at least I should check them before I even think about posting.

I am already paying tax on my Civil Service Pension so I will lose 20% on all of my State Pension, and of course I will not benefit from the age related personal allowance.

The age related personal pension is CURENTLY 9,940GBP at effectively age 65. Will likely increase by 5.2% from next April.

However, you may claim the higher allowance in the tax year in which you become 65. In your case Old Git, you can claim it and benefit from it since the day following your 64th birthday. THEY WON'T TELL YOU!!!

In order to get the age-related Personal Allowance you need to complete form P161 'Pension Coding' http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kb5/hmrc/forms/view.page?formid=3161&record=VYd0uMhbiYk

[billd766]

With the current political uncertainy here I would certainly not pulling up all your roots, you never know and it might not be so easy to return thing to the previous situation.

I pulled up all my roots years ago and invested in Thailand and in return I got a very good wife, a great son, somewhere good to live and few problems.

If I ever went back to the UK I would have nowhere to live, (ex-wife got the house, jump through a zillion hoops to get my wife over, my son has dual nationality.

I have a son and grandson over there and a few friends.

We/I would miss the food, weather, comfort, wife's family and everything else we have here.

For me it isn't worth thinking about.

I suppose on the good side in the UK I would get the pension increases and a free bus pass.

You forgot about the excellent real ales but they would cost you more than a Leo! Yorkshire pudding perhaps? Steak and Kidney Pie? Cant tempt you back then?

Real pork pies, roast Somerset lamb with proper home made mint sauce, this time of year mince pies and custard.

Things like that I miss. Real ales and beer in general I don't miss, Sadly there are not enough positives to outweigh the negatives.

[theoldgit]

The age related personal pension is CURENTLY 9,940GBP at effectively age 65. Will likely increase by 5.2% from next April.

However, you may claim the higher allowance in the tax year in which you become 65. In your case Old Git, you can claim it and benefit from it since the day following your 64th birthday. THEY WON'T TELL YOU!!!

That's interesting, I have just done a quick calculation and sadly I fall foul of the "adjusted net income" rule so I will not benefit. Pity, I thought I was in line for an early Christmas present, or at least and early Songkran present.

Thanks anyway

[Billmont]

As stated earlier, paying income tax does not bring an entitlement to NHS treatment, but it might be useful if one ever needed to establish intention to resume permanent residence in the UK. The statement in a post above that one needs to have been in the UK for six months before becoming eligible for hospital care is not correct. This is what the DoH says:

Are you taking up or resuming permanent residence in the UK?

What if I should need hospital treatment?

Under the current Regulations, anyone who is taking up or resuming permanent residence in the UK is entitled to free National Health Service (NHS) hospital treatment in England. If your intention is to live permanently in the UK you will be exempt from hospital charges from the date of your arrival in the country but you should expect to be asked to prove your intention and that you are legally entitled to live here. This exemption applies to your spouse, civil partner and children (under the age of 16, or 19 if in further education) if they are living here with you on a permanent basis.

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsandcharges/OverseasVisitors/Browsable/DH_074376

While what you say and the DoH say is no doubt correct but I am afraid that is in theory. The practice is somewhat different. Resuming and/or taking up permanent residency is not a matter of saying "I do or I am". If you leave the UK now for more that 3 months you lose NHS entitlement. Returning gets more complicated and the main purpose of these restrictions is to avoid Health Tourism. You need to prove that you are returning for good and not just for an operation. In practice they require a six month residency to "prove" you are genuine.

This regulation is to stop Europeans or people from Europe coming to get free health care. The expats were unfortunately included. There is so much to read on this subject and for sure it is confusing and also in practice if you have a house in the UK and pay Council tax less attention is paid. This will be all changed in April 12 where it will be clarified and strictly adhered to. Emergeny treatment will never be refused but you could end up with a bill. Some hospitals in the UK make regular announcements asking if you have been absent from the UK for more than 3 months you must report to reception. The advice from Newspaper articles is to ignore this and just go ahead and obtain treament otherwise you may have to pay. Hospitals are under more and more financial pressures and are now looking in rule books to make savings. From April this will all change and maybe Big Brother will have access to Passports.This is all speculation at present but for sure the changes will not be in expats favour.

[taff33]

This may help some people www.listentotaxman.com

[exeter]

That's interesting, I'm due to receive my State Pension next year and as my birthday is two weeks before the uplift day I considered a one off five week deferral. I called the relevant department in Newcastle for a quote and while I was on the phone asked that if I deferred would I receive the new rate, the lass advised me that I would only receive the rate applicable when I reached State Pension age. Earlier advice on this forum indicates that this advice was not accurate, and your experience adds to this doubt.

I fired off an email a couple of weeks ago asking for a definitive answer, I still await a reply. It's such a pity that these helpline operatives cannot give the correct answer in the first place, people need accurate advice if they are going to plan their future.

I'm still minded to defer for five weeks but I'm also thinking "a bird in the hand", I believe it would add a tad over six quid to my pension and take about 69 weeks to break even.

Thankfully I'm in receipt of a Civil Service Pension which is uplifted where ever you live in the world.

You will receive the pension in force from when you claim- NOT your 65th birthday.

If you defer for 5 weeks for a weekly increase of approx GBP6, it will take you nearer 2 years to recoup -not 69 weeks. Bear in mind also that the state pension added to your civil service pension will almost certainly mean you have to pay tax (if not already) and you will lose 20% of any combined income over the personal allowance. Hence it will take longer to recoup the lost 5 weeks pension.

If you think you will live for an additional 2 years then I suggest you defer.

Note also that if you have a wife, upon your demise she would receive bereavement benefits, and they will benefit too from the deferral.

NOTE The pension Dept regularly provide false information. Those that were eligible to receive the dependents allowance (until April 2010) were regularly told they could not claim because either they of their wife were not in the UK. TOTALLY UNTRUE, and everyone who requested my assistance received this allowance (worth approx 1.5million baht over the 10 year period it is payable!)

Good man, good advice and helping expats as well to get money out of HMRC well done :jap: .

[exeter]

With the current political uncertainy here I would certainly not pulling up all your roots, you never know and it might not be so easy to return thing to the previous situation.

I pulled up all my roots years ago and invested in Thailand and in return I got a very good wife, a great son, somewhere good to live and few problems.

If I ever went back to the UK I would have nowhere to live, (ex-wife got the house, jump through a zillion hoops to get my wife over, my son has dual nationality.

I have a son and grandson over there and a few friends.

We/I would miss the food, weather, comfort, wife's family and everything else we have here.

For me it isn't worth thinking about.

I suppose on the good side in the UK I would get the pension increases and a free bus pass.

You forgot about the excellent real ales but they would cost you more than a Leo! Yorkshire pudding perhaps? Steak and Kidney Pie? Cant tempt you back then?

Real pork pies, roast Somerset lamb with proper home made mint sauce, this time of year mince pies and custard.

Things like that I miss. Real ales and beer in general I don't miss, Sadly there are not enough positives to outweigh the negatives.

Real pork pies are very bad for your health! Dorset Lamb is better than Somerset IMHO, Real Mint sauce yes sir the best I have found is on the platform of Axminster railway station. Steak and Kidney Pie again not good for you. ( I like the Fray Bentos ones). Mince pies up to you I stick with a real ale, nice dark strong one