Secure Your Own Nuts!

[karlos]

I was just wondering if any of you guys have stumbled across a motorcycle repair shop that uses either of the following:-

A torque wench set to the correct setting for the nut / bolt it's being used on, or a mechanic that uses lock tite, spring washers or ny-lock nuts?

I've lost count of the amount of times i have had to re-tighten my own nuts and nearly lost my cool when some 13 year old was stripping threads and jamming the wrong length bolts into the engine of my Mio 125 last night, grrrrrrr!

[KRS1]

Torque wrench? They dont even use sockets !...ive often sat in awe watching them use a wrench when a socket and ratchet could get the job done 10 times faster.

[karlos]

Torque wrench? They dont even use sockets !...ive often sat in awe watching them use a wrench when a socket and ratchet could get the job done 10 times faster.

It's also amazed me how much of an angle they can use a shallow socket on and impact gun (windy/air gun), rather than using a short extension it's ohhh so much quicker for them to bur the edges off of every nut and bolt. Quicker for them but a pain in the ass for the next guy that has to remove them, the cost of new bolts coming from my pocket of course.

[roban]

lock tite

You know the price of a small bottle of Loctite?

No? Then do not wonder...

It's around 500 Bt or more.....(nearly same price as in EU).

You and me know, it's necessary some times, to use Loctite and a Torque wrench..... BUT......how many "Laokao or similar" you can get for 500, or better the price of a decent torque wrench.....

For this, and many other reasons, I repair our bikes myself.

And yes, I use a torque wrench, an air Impact Wrench and many other "special tools"....:jap:

Every tool you need, is easily available in TH, also in good quality.

Edited December 7, 2011 by roban

[wantan]

Karlos, you should secure your nuts by going to a Yamaha shop with certified mechanics. Or was the 13 year old boy certified?

[roban]

Karlos, you should secure your nuts by going to a Yamaha shop with certified mechanics. Or was the 13 year old boy certified?

certified or not..

When the "SomTam foodstall" arrives, they are all same same.....

Edited December 7, 2011 by roban

[karlos]

Karlos, you should secure your nuts by going to a Yamaha shop with certified mechanics. Or was the 13 year old boy certified?

I do but this time and on the odd occasion when i get a puncture i'm just too far from a Yamaha garage.

The only certification he had would have be then certainty of <deleted> my bike up if left unattended

Having said that though i have found exhaust clamps and bolts loose or missing having just returned home from the Yamaha dealer i bought the bike from just 8 months back.

Edited December 7, 2011 by karlos

[karlos]

lock tite

You know the price of a small bottle of Loctite?

No? Then do not wonder...

It's around 500 Bt or more.....(nearly same price as in EU).

You and me know, it's necessary some times, to use Loctite and a Torque wrench..... BUT......how many "Laokao or similar" you can get for 500, or better the price of a decent torque wrench.....

For this, and many other reasons, I repair our bikes myself.

And yes, I use a torque wrench, an air Impact Wrench and many other "special tools"....:jap:

Every tool you need, is easily available in TH, also in good quality.

Wish i kept all my Snap-On gear and Troy Baylis Top Box With Roll Cab.....

As for the Loctite.....Ouch, i was thinking of importing some for my own use, i used to get multipacks for around 10 pounds back in old blighty but i guess the 500Baht charged here per bottle would suffice for the odd occasion i would use it, rather than paying postage and import taxes.

I wonder if i would be questioned as to why i have several multipacks of loctite in my suitcase the next time i fly out of the UK??

If i could manage to get some from home i'd happily sell the bottles for the price i paid for them to help others out, safety first

On the flipside there must be a Thai rip-off copy for Loctite thread lock?

Edited December 7, 2011 by karlos

[hehehoho]

Karlos, you should secure your nuts by going to a Yamaha shop with certified mechanics. Or was the 13 year old boy certified?

I cannot believe that them being 'certified' would make much difference.

[karlos]

Karlos, you should secure your nuts by going to a Yamaha shop with certified mechanics. Or was the 13 year old boy certified?

I cannot believe that them being 'certified' would make much difference.

I'd like to believe that if a mechanic has taken the time and effort to attend some proper training and works for a reputable company he should know what he's doing and repair bikes correctly.

I also believe there are mechanics like this to be found in Thailand but they are few and far between hence the bad rep Thai mechanics get. I'd happily take my bike to a shop that has qualified / trained staff, proper tools and procedures for repairing bikes, i'd even pay over the odds for this service if i didn't have the ability to fix vehicles myself. The question is would a Thai pay that little more for peace of mind and saftey for all the family members that would be using the bike after the repair...... I guess the lack of such establishments speaks volumes and the overwhelming amount of mediocre repair shops will suffice for most.

[KRS1]

Thread lock is nothing more than a form of cyanacrylate glue (super glue, crazy glue) that hardens in the absence of air.

Regular cyanoacrylate will work just fine at 20 baht a bottle, but has to be applied where the nut covers the bolt or where the screw is inside the thread holes.

You have to have two surfaces touching each other for it to work. I use to sell rubberized thixotropic cyanoacrylate so know a thing or two about the stuff.

[hehehoho]

Karlos, you should secure your nuts by going to a Yamaha shop with certified mechanics. Or was the 13 year old boy certified?

I cannot believe that them being 'certified' would make much difference.

I'd like to believe that if a mechanic has taken the time and effort to attend some proper training and works for a reputable company he should know what he's doing and repair bikes correctly.

I also believe there are mechanics like this to be found in Thailand but they are few and far between hence the bad rep Thai mechanics get. I'd happily take my bike to a shop that has qualified / trained staff, proper tools and procedures for repairing bikes, i'd even pay over the odds for this service if i didn't have the ability to fix vehicles myself. The question is would a Thai pay that little more for peace of mind and saftey for all the family members that would be using the bike after the repair...... I guess the lack of such establishments speaks volumes and the overwhelming amount of mediocre repair shops will suffice for most.

I've seen far too many 'certified' mechanics at dealers forget to do something basic or completely <deleted>-up the task they're doing. How many times do they have to repeat a basic job until it's done correctly? Most jobs seem to have to be done again within an hour because they didn't do it correctly the first time IME.

[wantan]

Karlos, you should secure your nuts by going to a Yamaha shop with certified mechanics. Or was the 13 year old boy certified?

I cannot believe that them being 'certified' would make much difference.

I'd like to believe that if a mechanic has taken the time and effort to attend some proper training and works for a reputable company he should know what he's doing and repair bikes correctly.

I also believe there are mechanics like this to be found in Thailand but they are few and far between hence the bad rep Thai mechanics get. I'd happily take my bike to a shop that has qualified / trained staff, proper tools and procedures for repairing bikes, i'd even pay over the odds for this service if i didn't have the ability to fix vehicles myself. The question is would a Thai pay that little more for peace of mind and saftey for all the family members that would be using the bike after the repair...... I guess the lack of such establishments speaks volumes and the overwhelming amount of mediocre repair shops will suffice for most.

I've seen far too many 'certified' mechanics at dealers forget to do something basic or completely <deleted>-up the task they're doing. How many times do they have to repeat a basic job until it's done correctly? Most jobs seem to have to be done again within an hour because they didn't do it correctly the first time IME.

TIT. If Karlos doesn't want to do the repair/service himself and doesn't know a trustable mechanic than the best is to visit a Yamaha shop.

[MaiChai]

I too recommend super glue (gow chang). Can get a large bottle of it for about 10 baht in one of those cheap stalls. If that doesn't work, try some epoxy, preferably grey. Threadlock is nothing more that super glue with some epoxy to clog the threads.

You have to remember the educational level is very low here. Don't expect them to have the experience and knowledge that you have. Most Thai boys think its 'girly' staying in school and getting a proper education.

The downside to using a Yamaha/Honda/etc dealer is that the bill will stack up with lots of parts; they go out of their way to bill lots of parts to bump up the bill, and each part will be marked up. Thats my experience. I do all my own mechs; better and cheaper.

Edited December 7, 2011 by MaiChai

[karlos]

Thread lock is nothing more than a form of cyanacrylate glue (super glue, crazy glue) that hardens in the absence of air.

Regular cyanoacrylate will work just fine at 20 baht a bottle, but has to be applied where the nut covers the bolt or where the screw is inside the thread holes.

You have to have two surfaces touching each other for it to work. I use to sell rubberized thixotropic cyanoacrylate so know a thing or two about the stuff.

'rubberized thixotropic cyanoacrylate' this is thread lock in it's scientific terminology, or something other?

I would think that super glue would be a little too brittle for hot vibrating external engine components, hence the need for some rubberized glue? But i guess even if the superglue shatters into small parts it will still be creating resistance in places and stopping the joint from loosening

I'd take some of that 'rubberized thixotropic cyanoacrylate' if you have some still?

[hehehoho]

TIT. If Karlos doesn't want to do the repair/service himself and doesn't know a trustable mechanic than the best is to visit a Yamaha shop.

Though the 'mechanics' are likely to be just as, ummm... 'Thai' in their workings, from my average experiences over the past few years.

i.e, pretty much useless and more likely to damage your bike more than make it better, 'certified' or not.

Edited December 7, 2011 by hehehoho

[KRS1]

Thread lock is nothing more than a form of cyanacrylate glue (super glue, crazy glue) that hardens in the absence of air.

Regular cyanoacrylate will work just fine at 20 baht a bottle, but has to be applied where the nut covers the bolt or where the screw is inside the thread holes.

You have to have two surfaces touching each other for it to work. I use to sell rubberized thixotropic cyanoacrylate so know a thing or two about the stuff.

'rubberized thixotropic cyanoacrylate' this is thread lock in it's scientific terminology, or something other?

I would think that super glue would be a little too brittle for hot vibrating external engine components, hence the need for some rubberized glue? But i guess even if the superglue shatters into small parts it will still be creating resistance in places and stopping the joint from loosening

I'd take some of that 'rubberized thixotropic cyanoacrylate' if you have some still?

Homepro has small metal tubes of the rubberized thixo stuff for sale. This stuff is the preferred adhesive for high powered subwoofer assembly, shock (impact) resistant, heat resistant and flexible.

The correct terminology for thread lock would be -anaerobic, but really though any cyanoacrylate will work, i have regular cyanoacrylate holding my velocity stack on to a rubber manifold, and this is the 20 baht bottle stuff.

If you go to a Thai shop its called (gaow lohn - hot glue, or gaw chang (elephant brand)like Maichai said)...yeah i know its not hot glue like we know in the west, but thats what its called here....if you drop some on sawdust, or alot in a crumpled ball of paper it will smoke thats why they call it that here.

[BigBikeBKK]

lock tite

You know the price of a small bottle of Loctite?

No? Then do not wonder...

It's around 500 Bt or more.....(nearly same price as in EU).

You and me know, it's necessary some times, to use Loctite and a Torque wrench..... BUT......how many "Laokao or similar" you can get for 500, or better the price of a decent torque wrench.....

For this, and many other reasons, I repair our bikes myself.

And yes, I use a torque wrench, an air Impact Wrench and many other "special tools"....:jap:

Every tool you need, is easily available in TH, also in good quality.

Wish i kept all my Snap-On gear and Troy Baylis Top Box With Roll Cab.....

As for the Loctite.....Ouch, i was thinking of importing some for my own use, i used to get multipacks for around 10 pounds back in old blighty but i guess the 500Baht charged here per bottle would suffice for the odd occasion i would use it, rather than paying postage and import taxes.

I wonder if i would be questioned as to why i have several multipacks of loctite in my suitcase the next time i fly out of the UK??

If i could manage to get some from home i'd happily sell the bottles for the price i paid for them to help others out, safety first

On the flipside there must be a Thai rip-off copy for Loctite thread lock?

Snap-On are for life! How could you leave them behind? You can buy genuine Snap On tools here in Thailand but they'll cost you.

Instead of Locktite I use Permatex- it's of equal quality and pretty darn cheap. Comes in permanent red or non-permanent blue, same as locktite.

http://www.permatex.com/

Permatex products can be found at all Home Pro stores.

Sure there are shitty mechanics in Thailand, but there are also some dam_n good ones. I don't think Thailand is any different from most other countries in this respect. And it bugs me when some of you try turn it into a race issue. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what country you're in- if you can't find a good and trustworthy mechanic it's really best to do your service and repairs yourself.

Ride On!

T :jap:

[roban]

Sure there are shitty mechanics in Thailand, but there are also some dam_n good ones....

Sure, but unfortunately, the "good ones" aren't "marked" somehow...

I saw some "good ones" at the Bira racing circuit, repairing a (car)gearbox on a white cloth(correct term?).

That was really professional, everything clean, quality tools..etc..

But that's the exception....

if you can't find a good and trustworthy mechanic it's really best to do your service and repairs yourself.

Amen

[TongueThaied]

Get used to it. Nobody seems to be trained here. When I go to the shop (becasue I'm too lazy to do the work myself), I know what they are going to be doing. I come armed with my own Locktite (or Permatex), torque wrenches and torques specs, then watch them like a hawk. Wenever they are leaving out a step or failing to use Locktite where indicated or failing to use a toeque wrench, or I percieve a threat of overtightening, I intervene and make them do it "right." It is just the way it is. I used to get worked up about it, but what's the use. It is the farang who has to adjust, so I bring tools.

[BigBikeBKK]

Get used to it. Nobody seems to be trained here. When I go to the shop (becasue I'm too lazy to do the work myself), I know what they are going to be doing. I come armed with my own Locktite (or Permatex), torque wrenches and torques specs, then watch them like a hawk. Wenever they are leaving out a step or failing to use Locktite where indicated or failing to use a toeque wrench, or I percieve a threat of overtightening, I intervene and make them do it "right." It is just the way it is. I used to get worked up about it, but what's the use. It is the farang who has to adjust, so I bring tools.

I don't get it... If you're going to the shop, and bringing your own tools, and having to watch them every second.... why don't you just do it yourself???

[marcusb]

Thread lock is nothing more than a form of cyanacrylate glue (super glue, crazy glue) that hardens in the absence of air.

Regular cyanoacrylate will work just fine at 20 baht a bottle, but has to be applied where the nut covers the bolt or where the screw is inside the thread holes.

You have to have two surfaces touching each other for it to work. I use to sell rubberized thixotropic cyanoacrylate so know a thing or two about the stuff.

Just a side note. My friend has a stationery store and in with the different glues are tiny tubes of Loctite for 15 or 20 baht. i haven't used it as a thread lock but have

used it for small projects and it works quite well.

[karlos]

Thread lock is nothing more than a form of cyanacrylate glue (super glue, crazy glue) that hardens in the absence of air.

Regular cyanoacrylate will work just fine at 20 baht a bottle, but has to be applied where the nut covers the bolt or where the screw is inside the thread holes.

You have to have two surfaces touching each other for it to work. I use to sell rubberized thixotropic cyanoacrylate so know a thing or two about the stuff.

Just a side note. My friend has a stationery store and in with the different glues are tiny tubes of Loctite for 15 or 20 baht. i haven't used it as a thread lock but have

used it for small projects and it works quite well.

That would be Loctite's Superglue as apposed to Loctite's Thread Lock or Thread Retainer

But as mentioned earlier in this thread i guess it would do the trick

[Lickey]

Would somebody be kind enough to tell me where they would use Loctite thread lock on a modern motorbike? and a link to the manual for that bike, thanks.

[BigBikeBKK]

Would somebody be kind enough to tell me where they would use Loctite thread lock on a modern motorbike? and a link to the manual for that bike, thanks.

The shop manuals for my Gixxer, ER6n, Versys and Ninja 650R all call for threadlock to be applied in numerous applications. Shop manuals are protected by copyright so I won't share them with you on this forum, but it's not hard to find them on various download sites.

[karlos]

Would somebody be kind enough to tell me where they would use Loctite thread lock on a modern motorbike? and a link to the manual for that bike, thanks.

The shop manuals for my Gixxer, ER6n, Versys and Ninja 650R all call for threadlock to be applied in numerous applications. Shop manuals are protected by copyright so I won't share them with you on this forum, but it's not hard to find them on various download sites.

What he said

There are 10's, if not hundreds of locations the stuff should and can be used on a single vehicle.

[Lickey]

ok, clever people, please tell me of a manufactur who uses loctite on an orignal build, and who uses it on an engine re-build? if for eg they use it on big end bolts & nuts, then the nuts are suspect in the first place, as for using it on a wheel axle, that is stupid, better to use coppa-slip, so the axle doesnt seize in the bearing/hub assembly,

1996 i bought a Kawasaki ZZR1100, had it modified with zxr 750 carb tops, this gave it many extra HPs , then a ex kawasaki race man dyno jetted it and tuned the engine, it made 137bhp on the dyno with no ram-air effect, the ram air would make another 10 bhp, and depending on use, a rear tyre would last between 2000 and 4000 miles, and some heavy 2 up with panniers touring in Europe, i live in Thailand now, and have been here 5 years, my son has my Kawasaki in UK its done 67000miles, same rear axle and nut, no loctite,

In all my years in the commercial auto trade as an engineer, only Cummins suggested using theadlock on bolts, and that was on a torque converter to a flex plate,

So come on, post the links where a modern bike manufacture uses threadlock,

[karlos]

ok, clever people, please tell me of a manufactur who uses loctite on an orignal build, and who uses it on an engine re-build? if for eg they use it on big end bolts & nuts, then the nuts are suspect in the first place, as for using it on a wheel axle, that is stupid, better to use coppa-slip, so the axle doesnt seize in the bearing/hub assembly,

1996 i bought a Kawasaki ZZR1100, had it modified with zxr 750 carb tops, this gave it many extra HPs , then a ex kawasaki race man dyno jetted it and tuned the engine, it made 137bhp on the dyno with no ram-air effect, the ram air would make another 10 bhp, and depending on use, a rear tyre would last between 2000 and 4000 miles, and some heavy 2 up with panniers touring in Europe, i live in Thailand now, and have been here 5 years, my son has my Kawasaki in UK its done 67000miles, same rear axle and nut, no loctite,

In all my years in the commercial auto trade as an engineer, only Cummins suggested using theadlock on bolts, and that was on a torque converter to a flex plate,

So come on, post the links where a modern bike manufacture uses threadlock,

I'm not going to get too involved with this comment, all i can say is.... In Thailand where no mechanics use torque wrenches, Loctite would be a valuable last resort for bolts staying in place.

use of loctite on big ends and internal components would be a little silly in my mind, most big end bolts use some form of spring / crunch washer or stretch bolts that shouldn't be re-used.

Use of Loctite on a wheel's hub nut is stupid??? Then why was my bike manufactured with a nylock nut in the first place? The amount of punctures my bike gets means that i would have to purchase a new nut every week, not costly but inconvenient to have to visit my Yamaha dealer every 7 days or so, so for this instance thread lock would would provide a substitute.

On these vibrating little scooters, thread lock can keep screws, nuts and bolts in place, yes the manufactured should have used a better method of fastening, but all i can do is try.

As for your 1996 ZZR1100, that sounds great but i'm not sure what that has to do with this thread.

I miss my Cummins and Perkins powered trucks, but i'm glad to see the back for Ford Cargos lol

[Lickey]

Karlos, i know what you are getting at, but with my zzr i knew when tight was tight enough, without a tourque wrench, and the same with big truck wheels, 10 studs, sometimes taper, most times spigot type, are the owners gonna fit new nuts every time the wheel is removed, i dont think so, from memory its 500ft lbs for a single wheel and 550ft lbs for a double, thats 18 ton upwards,

The nut holding the rear wheel of my Kwacker was not any kind of lock,, and do any haulage firms in the world use loctite when re-fitting wheels ect, i dont think so, its an after market thing, not on an original new build, so im still waiting for links where they use loctite in a new build!!

[Hog Head]

So come on, post the links where a modern bike manufacture uses threadlock,

See any HD manual from the last decade or more

Ok let the Harley shaker comments fly