A Female Luk Kruengs Viewpoint

[mataus101]

they do it for money wow, never knew that.

thats what makes it so disgusting.

dont compare daughters being bargirls with other proffesions, there is no comparison, that is a statement bordering on insanity.

whatever my daughter chooses will be fine, if she is happy im happy, but not a bar girl.

be honest and admit its not what people desire, just be honest one time, no parent wants that above all, there fore it must be the lowest choice, i thought that was obvious.

tell me, you ran a bar yes, am i right or wrong, i get that feeling.

[mataus101]

enjoy you bargirls, and to the old guys enjoy your young girls.

even though i never said its wrong, only if the man does not know.

people here fail to read and see in the posts what they wish to see.

I will say it one more time, if an older man is aware a girl is using him fine, he to is getting what he wants.

if the older man is not being used even better.

if he is being used and does not know it then he is a fool.

the fact that this is what i have written many times, but still get attacked leads one to wonder, what one of the 3 are my attackers because it should not offend at all.

unless of coarse someone feels they are being used and dont know it.

at least ludditeman knows where he is and what he wants.

[Wallaby]

they do it for money wow, never knew that.

thats what makes it so disgusting.

dont compare daughters being bargirls with other proffesions, there is no comparison, that is a statement bordering on insanity.

whatever my daughter chooses will be fine, if she is happy im happy, but not a bar girl.

be honest and admit its not what people desire, just be honest one time, no parent wants that above all, there fore it must be the lowest choice, i thought that was obvious.

tell me, you ran a bar yes, am i right or wrong, i get that feeling.

No, never owned a bar in Thailand or any other country. Never worked in Thailand.

It is one thing to say you don't want your daughter to be a bargirl. It is a completely different thing to day you would feed a dog but not a bargirl. I would say being a bargirl is not something to desire, there are many jobs I would not desire for a daughter. But isn't my choice, it's hers. I would rather my daughter be a bargirl than a drug courier, that's for sure.

Whatever your daugther does to be happy is fine with you. But not a bargirl. You will not get a say in what your daughter wants to be, if she comes home and says she is a bar girl or porno actress then that's just tough luck for you. Perhaps then the choice you have to either feed your dog or your daughter would be more difficult.

If your daughter is not a bargirl but is a slut and everyone in the local football club has shagged her, you still happy?

Just because someone does it for money doesn't make them a bad person. I would rather the company of the majority of bargirls I have met than some of those 'nicer' girls that don't do it for money, but seem to do it for self esteem or whatever other reason they have to justify it.

By the way, I have a girl that wasn't a bargirl. I just can't stand people that are holier than thou with their sanctimonious opinions.

[Wallaby]

enjoy you bargirls, and to the old guys enjoy your young girls.

even though i never said its wrong, only if the man does not know.

people here fail to read and see in the posts what they wish to see.

I will say it one more time, if an older man is aware a girl is using him fine, he to is getting what he wants.

if the older man is not being used even better.

if he is being used and does not know it then he is a fool.

the fact that this is what i have written many times, but still get attacked leads one to wonder, what one of the 3 are my attackers because it should not offend at all.

unless of coarse someone feels they are being used and dont know it.

at least ludditeman knows where he is and what he wants.

I think you are confused. I doubt anyone here feels you are attacking them. You are attacking women that sometimes are doing the only thing they can to help their families yet you consider them less than human.

I would rather my daughter go out with a serial womanizer than someone as blinkered and sefl centred as yourself. You are actually worse than those bargirls you so detest and I imagine most would rather the company of said bargirls over you.

[DocN]

enjoy you bargirls, and to the old guys enjoy your young girls.

even though i never said its wrong, only if the man does not know.

people here fail to read and see in the posts what they wish to see.

I will say it one more time, if an older man is aware a girl is using him fine, he to is getting what he wants.

if the older man is not being used even better.

if he is being used and does not know it then he is a fool.

the fact that this is what i have written many times, but still get attacked leads one to wonder, what one of the 3 are my attackers because it should not offend at all.

unless of coarse someone feels they are being used and dont know it.

at least ludditeman knows where he is and what he wants.

I think you are confused. I doubt anyone here feels you are attacking them. You are attacking women that sometimes are doing the only thing they can to help their families yet you consider them less than human.

I would rather my daughter go out with a serial womanizer than someone as blinkered and sefl centred as yourself. You are actually worse than those bargirls you so detest and I imagine most would rather the company of said bargirls over you.

+1

That was basically what I said (a bit more drastic) in a comment, that unfortunately was deleted!

So: thanks wallaby, for helping me out here and saying things in a polite way!

I couldn't!

[mataus101]

most of them do not have to do it, they do it because they choose to not because they have to.

thats total BS, they just dont want to work 6 days a week, long hours for little money.

half of them have degrees, they can find work, they just dont want to.

[sbk]

First off, its poor netiquette to attack someone for their spelling or grammar skills. Not everyone is a native english speaker and so long as you can understand, its unnecessary to attack someone in such a petty manner.

Additionally, a post flaming another member has been removed. While it is certainly acceptable to disagree in a civil and polite manner with another person's opinions, it is not acceptable to call them insulting names.

Keep it polite, behave like the civil adults you are

[Ulysses G.]

I always laugh when people say things like 'you wouldn't want your daughter doing this or that'.

Most men don't like the thought of their daughter being bent over and royally rogered by anyone, but it happens.

This is a fact and most men would still be preventing them from doing it when they were 40 years old if they could.

[mataus101]

I dont hate bar girls, my words have been chosen poorly.

but the choice they have made is poor, I don't believe and never will they have to do it.

I have seen the poorest of the poor pull themselves out of the gutter without resorting to barwork.

I just dont feel its an option, if you disagree fine, you all have every right.

[DocN]

Feeding a dog, rather than a bar- girl!

Remember?

That is not really to be described with a "poor choice of words"!

[mataus101]

true it is in poor taste but, i still despise what they do.

[daoyai]

most of them do not have to do it, they do it because they choose to not because they have to.

thats total BS, they just dont want to work 6 days a week, long hours for little money.

half of them have degrees, they can find work, they just dont want to.

That is correct, they choose a job with better hours, better working conditions, better pay, many of them actually enjoy sex (with some of the customers) and the possibility that they may find a long term sponsor. How can you blame them?

[luckizuchinni]

relax, I am sure there are legit relationships with a wide age gap, rare but yes there are, but I was not refering to them.I

You now keep writing that you are not feeling superior, but when you use judgmental words such as "legit," then you are certainly showing a bias.

Just what is "legit?" The Hollywood love story? The two people who have sex once and get pregnant, then decide to marry so the child has both parents, even if they do not love each other? The woman who has two kids and the father bolts, so she marries an older man who can provide for the three of them while she takes care of him? The woman who marries an old man with medical problems to care for him as he cannot afford a full-time nurse, then she inherits his home when he eventually passes on? The two swingers who love sex with others, but want a steady relationship at home? The two friends who decide to marry so that both can enjoy medical or financial benefits? The gay guy or woman who marries another gay or straight friend of the opposite sex for appearances as well as simple affection? Two gays of the same sex who want the same lifestyle as their straight counterparts? I can keep going on in this vein.

My point is who determines if these relationships are "legit?" You?

[rgs2001uk]

most of them do not have to do it, they do it because they choose to not because they have to.

thats total BS, they just dont want to work 6 days a week, long hours for little money.

half of them have degrees, they can find work, they just dont want to.

That is correct, they choose a job with better hours, better working conditions, better pay, many of them actually enjoy sex (with some of the customers) and the possibility that they may find a long term sponsor. How can you blame them?

The trouble with most of them is, once they find the husband/sugar daddy/long term sponsor you mention, they still regard it as a job.

Many in fact are still working while the poor sap is back in farangland, often living openly with their Thai boyfriend.

Some even when they get to farangland dont give up their ways.

Up to you as they say.

[chonabot]

half of them have degrees

I'm struggling with this factoid...from whence did thou collate these stats pray tell ?

[F1fanatic]

Feeding a dog, rather than a bar- girl!

Remember?

That is not really to be described with a "poor choice of words"!

Everybody to their own.

I would always feed a soi dog that was clearly hungry. There are too many in an obviously 'sorry' state, and my heart goes out to them.

Those who think it is preferable to feed a b/g rather than a soi dog, IMO have little concept of true 'need'.

Why on earth would anyone feel the need to defend their decision to feed a soi dog over a b/g !

[mataus101]

no i dont decide what a legit relationship is, but common sense should tell you its got to involve love between both partners.

dam_n people amaze me.

there is very little to no honesty here, people refuse to speek openly and tell things how its, people here even Bs themselves to justify there immoral acts.

prostitution is wrong, sleeping with them is wrong, suporting it is wrong, it brings only misery to those involved and those around them, they may smile but that is on the outside.

im not going to sit here and BS, it is disgusting, and there is no excuse to do it.

Any one who cannot see the suffering it causes should open there eyes.

better to scrub toilets, 7 days a week with your dignity in tact.

I have cleaned toilets in my younger days, would never sell myself even if i could, anyone who does has no real respect for there parents, culture or themselves.

If you think the bar scene is full of positives, so be it, get some help.

[DocN]

Feeding a dog, rather than a bar- girl!

Remember?

That is not really to be described with a "poor choice of words"!

Everybody to their own.

I would always feed a soi dog that was clearly hungry. There are too many in an obviously 'sorry' state, and my heart goes out to them.

Those who think it is preferable to feed a b/g rather than a soi dog, IMO have little concept of true 'need'.

Why on earth would anyone feel the need to defend their decision to feed a soi dog over a b/g !

This is: given the situation I have one meal to share and my choice would be a dog or a human being (even as filthy and degenerated ...not my words!) as a bar- girl...the human would win most times...

[daoyai]

most of them do not have to do it, they do it because they choose to not because they have to.

thats total BS, they just dont want to work 6 days a week, long hours for little money.

half of them have degrees, they can find work, they just dont want to.

That is correct, they choose a job with better hours, better working conditions, better pay, many of them actually enjoy sex (with some of the customers) and the possibility that they may find a long term sponsor. How can you blame them?

The trouble with most of them is, once they find the husband/sugar daddy/long term sponsor you mention, they still regard it as a job.

Many in fact are still working while the poor sap is back in farangland, often living openly with their Thai boyfriend.

Some even when they get to farangland dont give up their ways.

Up to you as they say.

Very true, and this is really what it is all about. Apercentage of women and girls are "promiscuous" mening they don't feel the desire or inclination to "mate" with one partner only. They don't feel they need to love a man to have sex (kind of like an average male). So if these women live here (in T-land), they have the option to avoid the dismal, highly exploitive employment options this nation offers to many of these women. The party types may become B.G.s some open hair salons (with extras), work Hello !massage,karaoke, deg cheer beer, or many other grey area jobs where they are to choose their clients. I have often gotten a hair cut and been discreetly offered a little extra later. I wonder what Mataus thinks of these women or is his scorn reserved only for B.G.s, (and of course the guys that believe them when they say "I love you gran papa").

[F1fanatic]

Feeding a dog, rather than a bar- girl!

Remember?

That is not really to be described with a "poor choice of words"!

Everybody to their own.

I would always feed a soi dog that was clearly hungry. There are too many in an obviously 'sorry' state, and my heart goes out to them.

Those who think it is preferable to feed a b/g rather than a soi dog, IMO have little concept of true 'need'.

Why on earth would anyone feel the need to defend their decision to feed a soi dog over a b/g !

This is: given the situation I have one meal to share and my choice would be a dog or a human being (even as filthy and degenerated ...not my words!) as a bar- girl...the human would win most times...

And that is why I said - everybody to their own.

[MrsMills]

no i dont decide what a legit relationship is, but common sense should tell you its got to involve love between both partners.

dam_n people amaze me.

there is very little to no honesty here, people refuse to speek openly and tell things how its, people here even Bs themselves to justify there immoral acts.

prostitution is wrong, sleeping with them is wrong, suporting it is wrong, it brings only misery to those involved and those around them, they may smile but that is on the outside.

im not going to sit here and BS, it is disgusting, and there is no excuse to do it.

Any one who cannot see the suffering it causes should open there eyes.

better to scrub toilets, 7 days a week with your dignity in tact.

I have cleaned toilets in my younger days, would never sell myself even if i could, anyone who does has no real respect for there parents, culture or themselves.

If you think the bar scene is full of positives, so be it, get some help.

If someone wants to pay me for sex I'm available, women only.

[luckizuchinni]

no i dont decide what a legit relationship is, but common sense should tell you its got to involve love between both partners.

dam_n people amaze me.

there is very little to no honesty here, people refuse to speek openly and tell things how its, people here even Bs themselves to justify there immoral acts.

prostitution is wrong, sleeping with them is wrong, suporting it is wrong, it brings only misery to those involved and those around them, they may smile but that is on the outside.

im not going to sit here and BS, it is disgusting, and there is no excuse to do it.

Any one who cannot see the suffering it causes should open there eyes.

better to scrub toilets, 7 days a week with your dignity in tact.

I have cleaned toilets in my younger days, would never sell myself even if i could, anyone who does has no real respect for there parents, culture or themselves.

If you think the bar scene is full of positives, so be it, get some help.

You seem to like to put words into other people's mouths. I have never once written here whether I think being a bargirl or their customers is a good thing or bad. I did mention that I don't partake of them as customers. What I have taken issue with is your proselytizing and moralizing on what is right and what is wrong.

You have called bargirls "filthy," "wrong," and would feed a dog first. So yes, you are judging.

And where does common sense tell me that a relationship must include love? If an older man in poor health cannot afford nursing care, but a much younger nurse is willing to care for him in return for marriage, a green card, and eventually an inheritance, why is that illegitimate? I have seen this happen twice, albeit it with Filipina nurses, with all involved being pleased. Who am I to say they are wrong for their arrangement?

I was in "love" with my first wife. It didn't last. We divorced. I am in "affection," "respect," and "comfort" with my present wife. She makes me happy, and I make her happy as well. If "happy" is too strong of a word, then "satisfied" might fit better. Am I in love with her, in the fairy tale version of the word? I don't think so. But I am not about to divorce her and split up. We are too well matched and fill each other's needs for that. And I really do care for her.

So if neither one of us in "in love" with the other, is my marriage illegitimate?

And if all others were to be frank and honest, are their marriages any different than mine? How many are in the same boat as me?

[mataus101]

what do i think of the women working in the grey area,

no different, they are doing essentially the same thing but being discreet, or dishonest.

calling themselves a hairdresser to all who ask, but banging on the side.

if you are doing it be honest enough to say your doing it, dont hide in the shadows offering sly HJ for pennies and call yourself an angel thinking no one knows what your up to.

I despise them more because they are the same but liars on top of that.

Edited December 19, 2011 by mataus101

[mataus101]

if you dont think love is a must, so be it.

i myself think its essential, absolutly essential.

if you dont have love your missing part of the relationship, what your refering to with the nurses is not a relationship.

it is a bussiness arrangement, and these arrangements make visas harder to obtain for couples that marry for the right reasons.

although you seem to think any reason is right.

[GooEng]

no i dont decide what a legit relationship is, but common sense should tell you its got to involve love between both partners.

dam_n people amaze me.

there is very little to no honesty here, people refuse to speek openly and tell things how its, people here even Bs themselves to justify there immoral acts.

prostitution is wrong, sleeping with them is wrong, suporting it is wrong, it brings only misery to those involved and those around them, they may smile but that is on the outside.

im not going to sit here and BS, it is disgusting, and there is no excuse to do it.

Any one who cannot see the suffering it causes should open there eyes.

better to scrub toilets, 7 days a week with your dignity in tact.

I have cleaned toilets in my younger days, would never sell myself even if i could, anyone who does has no real respect for there parents, culture or themselves.

If you think the bar scene is full of positives, so be it, get some help.

If someone wants to pay me for sex I'm available, women only.

+1

[rgs2001uk]

no i dont decide what a legit relationship is, but common sense should tell you its got to involve love between both partners.

dam_n people amaze me.

there is very little to no honesty here, people refuse to speek openly and tell things how its, people here even Bs themselves to justify there immoral acts.

prostitution is wrong, sleeping with them is wrong, suporting it is wrong, it brings only misery to those involved and those around them, they may smile but that is on the outside.

im not going to sit here and BS, it is disgusting, and there is no excuse to do it.

Any one who cannot see the suffering it causes should open there eyes.

better to scrub toilets, 7 days a week with your dignity in tact.

I have cleaned toilets in my younger days, would never sell myself even if i could, anyone who does has no real respect for there parents, culture or themselves.

If you think the bar scene is full of positives, so be it, get some help.

If someone wants to pay me for sex I'm available, women only.

+1

Would you give Mrs M one, I am sure she has a good heart and will still respect you in the morning, by the looks of her photo I am sure she could knock you up a decent fry up, not sure how she likes her eggs, fried or fertilised?

[daoyai]

what do i think of the women working in the grey area,

no different, they are doing essentially the same thing but being discreet, or dishonest.

calling themselves a hairdresser to all who ask, but banging on the side.

if you are doing it be honest enough to say your doing it, dont hide in the shadows offering sly HJ for pennies and call yourself an angel thinking no one knows what your up to.

I despise them more because they are the same but liars on top of that.

Or more likely, has yet to reach a post disillusionment state. I read his profile and I believe it states he is 35 (?) ....... so the romantic notion of love still lives in him, enjoy it while it lasts. What luckyzuccini describes, respect, affection, and caring is LOVE in my perspective. Once you have grown past the wonderful sweet illusions of romantic love. As it is all an illusion, there lies the apeal of the B.G., if she is cute, fun and attentive (kind of like one of your early girlfriends OR your first wife) one can briefly suspend reality and relive that feeling.

Or he is just an uptite prude with issues.

[luckizuchinni]

if you dont think love is a must, so be it.

i myself think its essential, absolutly essential.

if you dont have love your missing part of the relationship, what your refering to with the nurses is not a relationship.

it is a bussiness arrangement, and these arrangements make visas harder to obtain for couples that marry for the right reasons.

although you seem to think any reason is right.

Once again, you are inferring what you wish, seemingly in order to perpetuate your world view.

The difference between you and me is that you judge what is right or wrong while I am not nearly so judgmental as I don't think I am in a position of pushing my morality on others.

Your refusal to acknowledge that a legal marriage between an older man and a younger nurse is not a relationship. Why not? In these two cases, the US government acknowledges that both are in fact legal, therefore "legitimate," relationships. Their inner motivations as not an issue. It is a matter of legality.

If you want me to give a personal opinion, then yes, I am not going to judge them, and I think their reasons for marriage are as legitimate than anyone else's. They cause no harm to anyone else, and they are comfortable with their relationship.

[meom]

what do i think of the women working in the grey area,

no different, they are doing essentially the same thing but being discreet, or dishonest.

calling themselves a hairdresser to all who ask, but banging on the side.

if you are doing it be honest enough to say your doing it, dont hide in the shadows offering sly HJ for pennies and call yourself an angel thinking no one knows what your up to.

I despise them more because they are the same but liars on top of that.

I think it's more a case of self defence against temptation.

Inner fears are a bit.ch ain't they.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Rimmer

[HardenedSoul]

The long and short of it, posters-in-arms, is that the lion's share of farang males come to or live in Thailand because they cannot get a woman at home they're sufficiently attracted to at their current juncture in life. Whether that is as a result of personality defects, aesthetics or plain old social and/or financial constraints is largely beside the point.

Some of these men are willing and happy to admit as much but the overwhelming majority live in a state of denial which is reinforced by the approval of like-minded individuals including many Thaivisa contributors - who share similar situations. It's easy to slate them if, like me, you are NOT aesthetically-challenged, NOT possessed of a boorish, chauvinistic and borderline-misogynistic attitude towards women and NOT satangless but consider this: if you couldn't attract and retain a good-looking, empathic, considerate woman in your homeland, would you 1) confront and tackle the areas in which you were deficient or 2) simply go to a place where such qualities could be overlooked in deference to money? I think I might very well opt for the latter.

For many, Thailand's pricing and overall economy transforms a cent into a dollar and a penny into a pound the minute they step off the plane and given that so many of these guys lead their interactions with the local ladies with their wallet, it shouldn't really come as surprise when their acquiescence has a direct correlation to the extent to which that wallet can be opened but if these men can't see that then, honestly, they deserve to get bitten - hard.

Personally, I'm not into the bar scene as I just don't like to bear witness to the pawing, sexual-objectification and downright disrespect patrons subject the girls to. I've been here nigh on four years and only stepped into a go-go bar twice - the second time, kicking and screaming - but I don't feel comfortable judging the girls or the men since, frankly, many of the girls live as well if not better than a lot of farangs in Thailand and, as I said earlier, where else can a loser-with-women have an opportunity to sample delights hitherto denied them?