The measure of fair in the sense of having the right to campaign, access to balloting, and a reasonable count of the results - I think there have been elections in Thailand (and in the USA, sometimes, too ) that meet those criteria.

The measure of fair isn't only about what you have the right to do, but as much about what you don't have the right to do. I stand by my comment. Thailand has never had free fair and open elections - no exaggeration - so we either dismiss them all, or accept them all.. not cherry pick the ones we like.

so tlansford, you think: the right to campaign, access to balloting etc... (as you mention) are the prime criteria. I note you don't mention the right of the electorate to make up their own mind free of mass immoral manipulation. And what has the USA voting situation got to do with Thailand?

I simply make the point to rixalex that there is a big difference between the 2007 referendum (already described) and the election last July 3.

And in the last election, people were free to make up their own mind. In the referendum, it was illegal to campaign about the referendum at all. People could make up their own mind, but with only one source of information.

-snip- (forum s/w missing quotes...)

Ahh the rose tinted glasses. Reality is quite different to what you describe.

Well, if you think so. Why don't we wait to see if there is a charter referendum, and then you can gloat when the PTP imposes martial law & makes it illegal to campaign against the charter

No longer a fruit of a poisoned tree AFTER the people voted yeah by 70%.

That sounds like it was a "landslide".

too bad it is not the truth.

Too bad that, for what ever reasons, you refuse to acknowledge the reality.

The measure of fair in the sense of having the right to campaign, access to balloting, and a reasonable count of the results - I think there have been elections in Thailand (and in the USA, sometimes, too ) that meet those criteria.

The measure of fair isn't only about what you have the right to do, but as much about what you don't have the right to do. I stand by my comment. Thailand has never had free fair and open elections - no exaggeration - so we either dismiss them all, or accept them all.. not cherry pick the ones we like.

so tlansford, you think: the right to campaign, access to balloting etc... (as you mention) are the prime criteria. I note you don't mention the right of the electorate to make up their own mind free of mass immoral manipulation. And what has the USA voting situation got to do with Thailand?

I simply make the point to rixalex that there is a big difference between the 2007 referendum (already described) and the election last July 3.

And in the last election, people were free to make up their own mind. In the referendum, it was illegal to campaign about the referendum at all. People could make up their own mind, but with only one source of information.

"and in the last election people were free to make up their own minds. " So you totaly discount the vote buying and in some cases intimidation of voters (udon thani) plus whats now happening with declared red shirt villages, and the fact that pt and their red supporters totally ignored the big picture in terms of policy which is so urgently needed to actually / really / permentantly get massive numbers of Thais out of poverty, and focused totally on items which have mass instant apeal but create a wealth of other proplems and make it all worse (e.g. 15,000 guaranteed salary for fresh graduates).

-snip- (forum s/w missing quotes...)

Ahh the rose tinted glasses. Reality is quite different to what you describe.

Well, if you think so. Why don't we wait to see if there is a charter referendum, and then you can gloat when the PTP imposes martial law & makes it illegal to campaign against the charter

Do I detect a hint of favour for this said regime, and it's FAIR elections. Looking at the other posters concerns on what is fair, seemingly you read them as anti government comments, I read them as a fair reflection of history. I tend to try to speak out about the distasteful happenings who-ever is the culprit. could you try to be more honest about Fair elections etc. I wish I could be seen to be more neutral, if I ever was it would prove things here have turned for the better and have transparency.

A bit late but a happy xmas to all posters and TF -with happy new year greetings =whether your red.yellow,blue pink Ha Ha--Ginjag xxx

-snip- (forum s/w missing quotes...)

Ahh the rose tinted glasses. Reality is quite different to what you describe.

Well, if you think so. Why don't we wait to see if there is a charter referendum, and then you can gloat when the PTP imposes martial law & makes it illegal to campaign against the charter

Actually their M.O. is to do it undercover of distractions and then announce it as fait accompli.

No longer a fruit of a poisoned tree AFTER the people voted yeah by 70%.

That sounds like it was a "landslide".

too bad it is not the truth.

Too bad that, for what ever reasons, you refuse to acknowledge the reality.

Reality? Where do you get this 70% from, that supposedly voted for the 2007 Constitution?

It might not be a terribly bad idea to get some of the 111 back, and soon. Most of the current bunch aren't exactly glowing in the dark.

Some people look to the future, wising for improvements. Others want the good old days back.

No longer a fruit of a poisoned tree AFTER the people voted yeah by 70%.

That sounds like it was a "landslide".

too bad it is not the truth.

Yes. It was only about 60% wasn't it. That's not a landslide.

I mean, think about it. The PTP won the election in a landslide and they only got 52% (of the seats). The 'Yes' vote for the constitution must have been a MASSIVE landslide.

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111 banned Thai Rak Thai Party executives return won't have big impact

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No longer a fruit of a poisoned tree AFTER the people voted yeah by 70%.

That sounds like it was a "landslide".

too bad it is not the truth.

Too bad that, for what ever reasons, you refuse to acknowledge the reality.

Animatic, you seem to be saying that the yes vote for the referendum was 70%. the results I have seen were 56.69% - if you want to correct that, please do.

No longer a fruit of a poisoned tree AFTER the people voted yeah by 70%.

That sounds like it was a "landslide".

too bad it is not the truth.

Yes. It was only about 60% wasn't it. That's not a landslide.

I mean, think about it. The PTP won the election in a landslide and they only got 52% (of the seats). The 'Yes' vote for the constitution must have been a MASSIVE landslide.

No, The PTP won the election with a majority - a term I know you have issue with as you have pointed out on numerous occasions. A Landslide it wasn't, but it was enough.

No longer a fruit of a poisoned tree AFTER the people voted yeah by 70%.

That sounds like it was a "landslide".

too bad it is not the truth.

Yes. It was only about 60% wasn't it. That's not a landslide. I mean, think about it. The PTP won the election in a landslide and they only got 52% (of the seats). The 'Yes' vote for the constitution must have been a MASSIVE landslide.

Regardles of what you and I think, analysts did describe the PTP win as a landslide and the yes vote at the time as a disappointment for the junta.

Maybe that is because out of 40 parties, the PTP won an absolute majority (53%) of the seats, and their main rival and 1st runner up was lagging behind more than 20% of that result.

Maybe that is because the charter received "only 56.69%" in a straight yes/no vote in which only the military gov't could promote and campaign for the 2007 with loads of public money.

Maybe that is why one is called a landslide and the other not?