A Quick Grammar Question

[Scott]

I was checking a math exam for a teacher. There was a discussion about which word is correct. If any of you are particularly good at grammar let me know which word is correct. Also, why (if possible). Like a lot of grammar questions, I often know the answer, but can't really explain why. Here's the question.

Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% (go/goes) bad. How many oranges are good?

Thanks.

[aitch52]

Of these oranges, 7% went bad

I do not claim to be a grammar expert, but that is the phrase I would use, being in the past simple tense.

[tomallison]

Of these oranges 7% are bad.

To me that would be better understood.

That also comes from a non-expert.

[beano2274]

Of these oranges 7% were bad.

If you used "went bad" would you not have to use a definition of time or time phrase.

[rijb]

are bad

Susy (Suzy?) has - present tense

[Scott]

Thanks. In all the discussion, no one thought about re-wording it!!! However, I am still interested, from a theoretical point, which is correct. Currently there are a number of people involved in this discussion.

Rewording is the most expedient method.

All input is appreciated.

[beano2274]

are bad

Susy (Suzy?) has - present tense

Present tense fact - Suzy has 400 oranges.

But the second sentence does not have to be in the same tense, although it is also a fact.

The question is were they bad at the beginning or did they go bad after some time.

Edited December 26, 2011 by beano2274

[sysardman]

are bad

Susy (Suzy?) has - present tense

Present tense fact - Suzy has 400 oranges.

But the second sentence does not have to be in the same tense, although it is also a fact.

The question is were they bad at the beginning or did they go bad after some time.

How about - have gone bad!!!

[MAJIC]

To be technically correct It should be 7% "are bad" Present Tense.

Equally, it could be 7%"have gone" bad, and would still be Present Tense.

So the calculation could be done accurately,at that moment in time.

"I often know the answer, but can't really explain why"

I think it's the way English Grammar is designed,if it sounds right,and flows, it usually is right!

Edited December 26, 2011 by MAJIC

[Scott]

Thanks. Very helpful.

[jaapfries]

The question:

Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% (go/goes) bad. How many oranges are good?

The Answer:

Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% goes bad. How many oranges are good?

Explanation:

The relevant verb ("to go" ) relates to "7%", which becomes, by its definition, a singular entity ('viz. 7% is . . .') hence: "goes" is correct.

The tense "goes" would refer to a plural entity and the use of this in the particular sentence wold be in-correct.

PN: Susy, is normally spelled "Suzy", unless the lass hails from some exotic place where her name is actually spelled that way.

[MAJIC]

The question:

Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% (go/goes) bad. How many oranges are good?

The Answer:

Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% goes bad. How many oranges are good?

Explanation:

The relevant verb ("to go" ) relates to "7%", which becomes, by its definition, a singular entity ('viz. 7% is . . .') hence: "goes" is correct.

The tense "goes" would refer to a plural entity and the use of this in the particular sentence wold be in-correct.

PN: Susy, is normally spelled "Suzy", unless the lass hails from some exotic place where her name is actually spelled that way.

Not trying to be a clever dick,but I think you will find that "Susy" is short for "Susan" and "Suzy" is short for "Suzanne"

[Phatcharanan]

I always thought 'Sue' was short for Susan.

[Scott]

Jaapfries, thanks for the explanation, which makes sense. I do envy people who can explain a grammar point simply and consicely.

I don't recall what name was actually used. The spelling 'Susy' was my mistake. But since I asked for the grammar/spelling brigade to come out in full force, feel free to shoot at will!

[aridion]

The question:

Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% (go/goes) bad. How many oranges are good?

The Answer:

Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% goes bad. How many oranges are good?

Explanation:

The relevant verb ("to go" ) relates to "7%", which becomes, by its definition, a singular entity ('viz. 7% is . . .') hence: "goes" is correct.

The tense "goes" would refer to a plural entity and the use of this in the particular sentence wold be in-correct.

PN: Susy, is normally spelled "Suzy", unless the lass hails from some exotic place where her name is actually spelled that way.

7 per cent is same as 7 per 100. I would say that it is plural as the object of the sentence (oranges) is countable as is the answer (How many).

check - http://data.grammarbook.com/blog/singular-vs-plural/subject-and-verb-agreement-with-collective-nouns/

[bifftastic]

Explanation:

The relevant verb ("to go" ) relates to "7%", which becomes, by its definition, a singular entity ('viz. 7% is . . .') hence: "goes" is correct.

The tense "goes" would refer to a plural entity and the use of this in the particular sentence wold be in-correct.

.

Sorry, but if "7%" is a singular entity, then surely "7% go bad" would be correct? I believe you say that yourself when you say

The tense "goes" would refer to a plural entity and the use of this in the particular sentence wold be in-correct.

"7% go bad" seems to scan correctly to me, and your explanation also seems correct, it's just that you seem to slightly contradict yourself in it perhaps it was a typo?

If this were a 'normal' sentence, as in something someone said as opposed to a problem posed in a maths question, then the person would say "7% have gone bad" because people wouldn't presume that 7% of something were about to go bad, that only happens in a maths question

[harrry]

Would you say 100% of students goes to school? I doubt it.

I also doubt that; "Regarding students 80% goes to the toilet during the break.", would be correct.

I

Edited December 27, 2011 by harrry

[QED]

The question:

Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% (go/goes) bad. How many oranges are good?

The Answer:

Susy has 400 oranges. Of these oranges, 7% goes bad. How many oranges are good?

Explanation:

The relevant verb ("to go" ) relates to "7%", which becomes, by its definition, a singular entity ('viz. 7% is . . .') hence: "goes" is correct.

The tense "goes" would refer to a plural entity and the use of this in the particular sentence wold be in-correct.

PN: Susy, is normally spelled "Suzy", unless the lass hails from some exotic place where her name is actually spelled that way.

Wrong. 7% GO bad, English people would never put 'goes' in that sentence.

Also, do you really want to take English lessons from somebody who cannot spell incorrect?

[Naam]

yew all is rong for shure! ze korrekt anser is: "Suzee is bad and so are 7 pursant of hur 400 orantches."

[harrry]

Just needed to be reworded:

If Suzy had 400 oranges and 28 were bad. How many would she have left assuming she was not hungry. Write 372 in the space on your answer form.

More seriously. Why are the two sentences of the original question both in the present tense. The oranges have already gone bad so why do we have the present tense used.

It should really be "7% of the oranges have gone bad. How many good ones do you have?

Edited December 27, 2011 by harrry

[Firelily]

I am not a native speaker but my instinct says it depends on the subject we are talking about.

7% of the money / milk goes missing. 7% of the oranges go missing.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Firelily

[Scott]

Thanks, Naam, I have had a few of those type of tests to correct as well!

Thanks for the responses so far, it made for interesting conversation today at work. Everyone was getting involved, Thai English Teachers, Foreign Teachers, subject teachers, native speakers and non-native speakers.

[aridion]

I am not a native speaker but my instinct says it depends on the subject we are talking about.

7% of the money / milk goes missing. 7% of the oranges go missing.

Correct.

[rijb]

Usage note: expressing percentages

If the noun is plural, the verb is plural: 65% of children play computer games.

http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/dictionary/per-cent_1

[ivan96822]

"Of these oranges, 7% (go/goes) bad. How many oranges are good?"

JAAPFRIES is incorrect.

"Seven percent go bad" is correct.

Explanation: Obviously, seven percent of the oranges have gone bad, meaning more than one orange. So...if one orange went bad, one would say, "Of these oranges, one goes bad." Since you are asking whether to use the word "go" or "goes," I must clarify: Does it sound awkward? Yes. Can you say, "Of these oranges, one go bad"? No.

"Goes" works because no matter if it is two oranges or twelve or twenty oranges, seven percent is a multiple -- hence: "Seven percent go bad." Just like you would say, "Of these oranges, two/twelve/twenty go bad."

If Jaapfries is an English instructor, he better brush up on his subject-verb agreement rules.

Edited December 28, 2011 by ivan96822

[Scott]

Thanks for the input, but I think we will avoid getting into a discussion of other posters. I have some colleagues who have an extensive background in grammar and they often get into heated arguments about pedantic grammar points. They are even able to cite published sources with different opinions.

Your thoughts on the issue and the explanations are appreciated, however.

[marty147]

Hi Scott

I agree that your exam question should be reworded using 'have'.

However, to answer your question with regards to subject-verb agreement in the present simple tense, my opinion is as follows.

Any 'part' be it a fraction, decimal or percentage is singular when the subject is uncountable and plural when the subject is countable.

Let's agree that apples are countable and rice is uncountable therefore -

"7% of the apples are red and half are green"

"7% of the rice is brown and half is white"

[transam]

7% have gone bad.

[Scott]

Thanks.

[SimonD]

7% have gone bad.

I doth most certainly agree.

BTW, does anyone have Susie's phone number? All those ripe, plump, juicy...oranges...