Merit Sharing Or Diminishing Anothers Karma?

[rockyysdt]

l'll refrain from detail for fear of being identified, but in summary:

I observed someones family member prophering a cash payment to balance out an act of profiteering from another's misfortune.

Holding a person liable for damage caused by accident, the affected party inflated the demand, seeking to profit from the situation.

The partner of the person making this demand secretly visited the person being held liable, declaring their unease and offered an amount equal to balance out the overcharge.

Until this visit the one held liable was not aware of any overcharge involved.

Unease was expressed due to their Buddhist background. Secrecy was requested.

This way the inflexible partner would come away with their demand being met, not knowing the source of the funding.

Was her merit transferable or will her act make no difference to the one who profited?

As the liable party did not incur penalty did this negate negative karma?

Would observing an act of profiteering on anothers misfortune without action result in negative Karma?

Edited December 26, 2011 by rockyysdt

[Xangsamhua]

I understand that the idea of merit being transferable became a widespread part of Buddhist teaching quite early, though it was not part of the Buddha's teaching and would seem to be inconsistent with it. The popular belief in transferability was so strong among the growing Buddhist laity that the monastic sangha was unable to combat it and eventually tolerated it. I don't know how acceptable it is to the monastic sangha in Thailand. Among the reform movements, Dhammakaya promotes it; Asoke rejects it.

[camerata]

I'm pretty sure I've read in the Pali Canon that merit is transferable (only) to hungry ghosts. That was a surprise.

[fabianfred]

My teacher LP Jaran says that merit from Dana (giving) such as alms-food can only reach those in the hungry-ghost realm. It requires the strongest merit from the most difficult, and therefore merituous, Vipassana meditation, to reach beings in hell realms. Humans, animals, higher realms have taken rebirth already where the merit cannot reach them.

In the OP's post, I would say that the person returning the excess money is doing a good thing. The person who overcharged might still benefit, without their knowledge, if the person who had the evil karma created to them decided to forgive and cancel any debt, real or karmic.

Most Vipassana teaching centres have the yogis chant the sharing of merits stanzas after each meditation session. This act creates more merit for the donor.

[rockyysdt]

The person who overcharged might still benefit, without their knowledge, if the person who had the evil karma created to them decided to forgive and cancel any debt, real or karmic.

Hi Fred.

How would the person go about forgiving, if it had been agreed that the person overcharging wasn't to know about the secret deal?

[fabianfred]

just making the intention not to hold it against them, and wishing to forgive their action, and hoping for them to have only happiness and relief from suffering....

no special ritual or words... just the intention to not create any karmic link .... forgiveness.

[rockyysdt]

just making the intention not to hold it against them, and wishing to forgive their action, and hoping for them to have only happiness and relief from suffering....

no special ritual or words... just the intention to not create any karmic link .... forgiveness.

My daughter isn't Buddhist but she's a beautiful girl.

She never has ill feeling to others but appears to observe without attachment.

She moved on.

That tells me, that the negative act had no affect and therefore can be considered benign.

I suppose that means no karmic link.

Edited December 29, 2011 by rockyysdt

[fabianfred]

Karma and its effects is a very complex subject, one which only a Buddha can know fully. Why this being was born as a dog and that as a butterfly etc. We have no way to know the causes, only the rough framework of how karma works, do good get good etc.

Also much of the effects, vipaka, are only to be had in the future, when the karma is ripened and the situation gives the opportunity for vipaka to happen.

Very strong karma such as that done with parents or ariya can have an almost immediate effect.

One story from my teacher's life. A man in his 60's came to practice Vipassana at the temple and during his meditation he saw things from his past. When a teenager he was hired to kill somebody, and he had forgotten all about this. He saw that the person he had killed was now reborn and living in a certain village. He went there with the Abbot and they found this man. Asking for forgiveness for the act of killing him the other guy said "well...I cannot remember because that was another life....but sure, no problem....I forgive you....just don't kill me again in this lifetime...". This meant that any karmic link was broken and he would not have to suffer the consequences. A result of his having practiced vipassana and shared merits with all beings, including enemies (those we have created karma with in the past).

[rockyysdt]

This meant that any karmic link was broken and he would not have to suffer the consequences. A result of his having practiced vipassana and shared merits with all beings, including enemies (those we have created karma with in the past).

I know a life of compassion has a positive affect on the compassionate one and those to which the compassion is directed.

Firstly as a way of reducing ones ego, also teaching by example, and by reducing suffering in the world.

How does practicing Vipassana specifically break karmic links?

[huli]

This meant that any karmic link was broken and he would not have to suffer the consequences. A result of his having practiced vipassana and shared merits with all beings, including enemies (those we have created karma with in the past).

I know a life of compassion has a positive affect on the compassionate one and those to which the compassion is directed.

Firstly as a way of reducing ones ego, also teaching by example, and by reducing suffering in the world.

__________

Compassion would be by definition purely an individual affair, along the lines of a mental feeling, attitude, or phenomena. A compassionate person gets the personal benefit from that. He/she then goes on to demonstrate behaviors, positive behaviors, that would be a good example to others, and probably benefit others. I see a distinction between the compassion and the behavior.

Likewise "metta" is an attitude that is purely personal, and is for the benefit of the individual only. True, such a person acts wisely and helpfully, but that is just because everyone has to act to be alive, and compassionate/loving people can act no other way.

Not to be splitting hairs, but in my view, compassion is practiced for personal improvement, and actually helping others is something else entirely.

This is purely my view to date, but I am open to dialogue about it. I see this issue as part and parcel of "Engaged Buddhism." Buddha didn't say in the 8 fold path to do this or that to help others, but to refrain from evil activity.

I would be interested in Rocky or Fred's take on this, if they have the time.

______________________

How does practicing Vipassana specifically break karmic links?

[fabianfred]

My making merit in any way, and then sharing those merits with all beings, particularly those we have created negative karma with in the past, if they should decide to forgive us then that karma is used up and will not bring a result.

Vipassana being the most difficult and therefore most merituous creates a huge amount of merit to be shared or donated with those beings.

[rockyysdt]

Compassion would be by definition purely an individual affair, along the lines of a mental feeling, attitude, or phenomena. A compassionate person gets the personal benefit from that. He/she then goes on to demonstrate behaviors, positive behaviors, that would be a good example to others, and probably benefit others. I see a distinction between the compassion and the behavior.

Likewise "metta" is an attitude that is purely personal, and is for the benefit of the individual only. True, such a person acts wisely and helpfully, but that is just because everyone has to act to be alive, and compassionate/loving people can act no other way.

Not to be splitting hairs, but in my view, compassion is practiced for personal improvement, and actually helping others is something else entirely.

This is purely my view to date, but I am open to dialogue about it. I see this issue as part and parcel of "Engaged Buddhism." Buddha didn't say in the 8 fold path to do this or that to help others, but to refrain from evil activity.

I would be interested in Rocky or Fred's take on this, if they have the time.

The Buddha taught Metta as a way to awakening .

He said: There is no better Mindfulness. There is no better way to live in this world. One who practices this will never come to be re born again.

He was very explicit.

The path of Metta was the path to Awakening.

Not loving kindness, Metta means boundless friendliness.

Coupled with karuna practice it's all about slowing down and paying attention, "To see, to look, to listen".

Awakening is the absence of greed, aversion & delusion.

Karuna practice is Metta in action.

Tenderness & concern.

To alleviate the pain in others.

Compassion cares.

Mindfulness cares.

Metta is the melting of the heart.

Anu Kalpa - A person who pulsates with compassion for the world.

Mudita (Gentle joy) - Gladness of the heart rooted in compassion.

We live in a world rooted in ego and lacking in compassion.

It's a wonder we haven't already destroyed ourselves as a species.

There is much suffering everywhere we look.

All of it due to the absence of metta and compassion.

Developing gentle joy helps us to deal with the overwhelming suffering in the world we become exposed to due to our compassion.

An oil executive I chatted with recently at a party was very revealing.

He spoke of "carbon capture" but confided that the resultant fuel would be too expensive.

I indicated to him that I thought the oil industry, knowing their core business had a limited lifespan, would have allocated a percentage of their profits towards research for the discovery of renewable energy sources.

He said that wasn't the case.

He said there were no profits in it for them.

Metta and compassion are far from being purely personal.

Compassion leads to action and involves the compassionate one as well as the one subject to compassion.

The heart of the one subject to compassion will also melt.

The Buddha showed us the way for human flourishing.

How we can best be in this world.

Edited December 30, 2011 by rockyysdt

[fabianfred]

The oil industry...and others possessed by greed...have actively destroyed and prevented progress in alternative power sources. One good example was the way Tesla was destroyed, so his free electicity to the world, without power cables, never became a reality.

True love is without expecting anything in return...love for ALL beings in whatever form.... this kind can only be attained by one who has reached the Ariya stages.

[IMA_FARANG]

The oil industry...and others possessed by greed...have actively destroyed and prevented progress in alternative power sources. One good example was the way Tesla was destroyed, so his free electicity to the world, without power cables, never became a reality.

True love is without expecting anything in return...love for ALL beings in whatever form.... this kind can only be attained by one who has reached the Ariya stages.

fabianfred:

Tesla was wrong...let's just say his dreams were greater than the reality of them.

But that wasn't really his fault....it's a common human (sentient beings) delusion.

He just wanted to believe so much, that he couldn't see clearly enough the unpleasent facts.

He was still a great, and unfortunately, still not properly recognised scientist.

I hope, sometime in the future, he will be.

However, I have to quibble a little about this statement:

True love is without expecting anything in return...love for ALL beings in whatever form.... this kind can only be attained by one who has reached the Ariya stages.

In my personal opinion anyone, Male or Female...Monastic or Layman. who can practice "mindful consideration" of the actions and behaviour of others....that person can by that "mindful consideration" come to understand that other person's harmful actions are merely caused by that other person's delusions (or defilements, if you prefer that term). And for that reason, understanding the other person's actions as having no real validity...but merely being the product of that person's difilements....then the person injured can practice that love for ALL beings in whatever form that you spoke of.

If for no other reason, then because of that "mindful consideration", by recognising the fact that that other's person's actions came from that person being being another sentient being trapped in the same round of birth/death and rebirth as he or she is.

But that is just my opinion.

[rockyysdt]

True love is without expecting anything in return...love for ALL beings in whatever form.... this kind can only be attained by one who has reached the Ariya stages.

Yes.

That's why it is difficult for one to project "loving kindness" to all in the early stages along ones path.

The correct translation of "Metta", is "boundless friendliness".

Let's face it, there are people in this world we find difficult to extend love towards.

Until awakened we will have varying levels of defilements.

On the other hand, we can be boundlessly friendly to all.

If you observe the Dalai Lama interacting with others, he is boundlessly friendly and makes those in his presence feel energized.

Edited December 31, 2011 by rockyysdt

[fabianfred]

The Buddha said "even if there are a bunch of people beating you, sticking knives in you, trying to kill you, do not be angry towards them, which is only harmful to yourself, but feel compassion for them.'

very difficult to achieve....... even just some guy cutting us off in traffic earns a quick curse from us and maybe even the 'bird'...... lol

The Tibetan monks and nuns who have been jailed and tortured by the Chinese for tens of years, and then come out with no ill feelings towards their captors........ incredible!