English Farmer In Issan Living His Dream Life

[Xangsamhua]

so Jezz you think it makes sense for a father to put his children at a massive disadvantage for the future? and if they decide village life is not for them, then what?

If Martin was someone else, he may have spoken to his kids in English and given them a bilingual advantage. But he's not you or me; he's Martin and he marches to the beat of a different drum. If he didn't he wouldn't be farming in Khon Kaen and living the way he does.

We must be careful about judging. For Martin, to raise children bilingually and have them set their sights on the big world beyond the district would be inauthentic. He wants to live with his family in a natural way, communicating with them in the language of their location and teaching them the values of the local culture - values that he believes are superior to those of more advanced cultures. I don't think we can pass judgement on what he and his wife have decided. I can think of things I could have done to give my children more advantages, but at the time chose otherwise because it seemed better that way then.

Parenting is never easy. In the long run I'm sure Martin's children will judge him on his good intentions for their welfare, not on whether he made the right decisions.

[wandrinstar]

Bit stupid not giving the Kids English Lessons. Thats a Thai Downfall , what if they dont like farming , nah, he wrong there.

[jonwilly]

Gents I live in Chiang Mai.

I sent this Vid to some friends and all, my self included have asked the same question.

Is he a Thai Citizen ?

In CM we have had, this year, musicians threatened by the Immigration Police, for Playing/Jamming, Unpaid in Bars.

Evidently they are taking work away from Thai citizens.

Farming is a 'Closed job' Thai's only, to everyones knowledge.

john

[IsaanUSA]

If the subject of this topic – English Isaan farmer Martin - is a member of TV and happened to be following this thread I’m sure he’d have a good laugh and at the same time feel sorry for the posters making such irrelevant, absurd and ridiculous comments.

I believe he would actually feel sorry for some of the poor souls on here. I actually feel sad for some of the comments in this thread.

I don't understand how people can think his children are being raised disadvantaged. If anything they will have the highest advantage of any of the children living in their village. They will be able to tap the knowledge of their father.

Of course I am biased. I come from a simple life from the Isaan of USA.

[cardholder]

If the subject of this topic – English Isaan farmer Martin - is a member of TV and happened to be following this thread I’m sure he’d have a good laugh and at the same time feel sorry for the posters making such irrelevant, absurd and ridiculous comments.

I believe he would actually feel sorry for some of the poor souls on here. I actually feel sad for some of the comments in this thread.

I don't understand how people can think his children are being raised disadvantaged. If anything they will have the highest advantage of any of the children living in their village. They will be able to tap the knowledge of their father.

Of course I am biased. I come from a simple life from the Isaan of USA.

Frankly, I doubt there is anywhere in USA that is like Isaan.

What do you think the children can do when they have tapped into his knowledge ?

[IsaanUSA]

What do you think the children can do when they have tapped into his knowledge ?

Make much more educated decisions compared to their peers. I think they would appreciate things more when they realise the sacrifices their father has made for them.

[cardholder]

What do you think the children can do when they have tapped into his knowledge ?

Make much more educated decisions compared to their peers. I think they would appreciate things more when they realise the sacrifices their father has made for them.

I am genuinely interested in your responses and I can see that you have identified major benefits for this lifestyle - and the way Martin is controlling it.

However, I need to ask again - what decisions are you referring to where they have peer group advantage.

[IsaanUSA]

What do you think the children can do when they have tapped into his knowledge ?

Make much more educated decisions compared to their peers. I think they would appreciate things more when they realise the sacrifices their father has made for them.

I am genuinely interested in your responses and I can see that you have identified major benefits for this lifestyle - and the way Martin is controlling it.

However, I need to ask again - what decisions are you referring to where they have peer group advantage.

Thank you for taking my reply sincerly. I am sometimes afraid to post in debates on TV.

I did watch some other videos of Martin on youtube. Apparently he was a straight A student back in England, so I assume he is a smart fellow. The parents of the other village children probably came from the same village, and their higher education would be very limited compared with Martin's. This alone would be a great benefit for his children compared with the other village children.

As his children get older, they will become more independent. They may wish to leave the village and go to work in the city of Khon Kaen. Possibly even go to the University. Martin will be able to give much better advice regarding financial issues/planning. He will have more knowledge of processes (such as job/school/banking applications). He can pass down knowledge on how to deal with different types of people his children will encounter along the way that a rural villager might never encounter as well as teaching them tolerance for different types of people. Martin seems pretty open to all types of people. Martin is much more knowledgable on world history and other factual data from around the world. His children will not be so ignorant in general.

I'm kind of on the spot and I'm having some difficulty coming up with a big list of benefits, but I think Martin's higher education and world travels alone will have a great benefit for his children versus other children's parents in the village.

The sad thing is that his journey will most likely include some rough heartbreak when his children decide that village life is not for them. He is so set on bringing his children up "right" that when one of his children decides they want to be a banker, it is going to break Martin's heart.

[SimonD]

What do you think the children can do when they have tapped into his knowledge ?

Make much more educated decisions compared to their peers. I think they would appreciate things more when they realise the sacrifices their father has made for them.

I am genuinely interested in your responses and I can see that you have identified major benefits for this lifestyle - and the way Martin is controlling it.

However, I need to ask again - what decisions are you referring to where they have peer group advantage.

Thank you for taking my reply sincerly. I am sometimes afraid to post in debates on TV.

I did watch some other videos of Martin on youtube. Apparently he was a straight A student back in England, so I assume he is a smart fellow. The parents of the other village children probably came from the same village, and their higher education would be very limited compared with Martin's. This alone would be a great benefit for his children compared with the other village children.

As his children get older, they will become more independent. They may wish to leave the village and go to work in the city of Khon Kaen. Possibly even go to the University. Martin will be able to give much better advice regarding financial issues/planning. He will have more knowledge of processes (such as job/school/banking applications). He can pass down knowledge on how to deal with different types of people his children will encounter along the way that a rural villager might never encounter as well as teaching them tolerance for different types of people. Martin seems pretty open to all types of people. Martin is much more knowledgable on world history and other factual data from around the world. His children will not be so ignorant in general.

I'm kind of on the spot and I'm having some difficulty coming up with a big list of benefits, but I think Martin's higher education and world travels alone will have a great benefit for his children versus other children's parents in the village.

The sad thing is that his journey will most likely include some rough heartbreak when his children decide that village life is not for them. He is so set on bringing his children up "right" that when one of his children decides they want to be a banker, it is going to break Martin's heart.

I think you have just about hit the nail on the head there.

I've watched the clip a few times trying to understand Martin's reluctance to impart his worldly skills and bilingual abilities to his children and simply don't understand his narrow view. I cannot see for one moment why any parent, step or otherwise, would deliberately choose to withhold information or education from their child to improve that childs' development and possibilities in life.

Martin may be a nice guy but he is self-obsessed and selfish. It's up to him what he does with 'his' life but to inflict such a narrow range on his children is beyond comprehension to me. I also detected a slightly mocking tone from the Thai interviewer. If someone wants to be a dirt farmer that's ok but to deny one's children the opportunity to be so much more than that defies credulity.

Like IsaanUSA, I've held off responding to this thread but I'll tell you one thing. My GF (soon to be my wife) is from a similar rural background in Surin. Did she enjoy growing up that way? Yes it was fun while she was young but it did not give her the life skills she later needed and therefore had to find for herself. Like all people, she is aspirational and recognises that life can be improved upon with hard work and an educational foundation. She is adamant that her boys will not be denied the opportunities she never had. Her mantra is "education, education, education." When her boys become men, then THEY can decide what they want to do with their lives. It's is every parents responsibility to give their children the best start in life possible. To do less is an abandonment of responsibility.

Martin is putting his own desires for happiness and satisfaction above those of his children. That is wrong.

Edited December 29, 2011 by SimonD

[IsaanUSA]

Martin may be a nice guy but he is self-obsessed and selfish. It's up to him what he does with 'his' life but to inflict such a narrow range on his children is beyond comprehension to me. I also detected a slightly mocking tone from the Thai interviewer. If someone wants to be a dirt farmer that's ok but to deny one's children the opportunity to be so much more than that defies credulity.

<snip>

Martin is putting his own desires for happiness and satisfaction above those of his children. That is wrong.

I disagree. He is raising them perfectly fine for their environment. He's not forcing anything upon them or taking anything away from them. Parents are pretty much free to raise their children however they wish. I really don't understand how people can judge other people on this issue. I should say that I am not a parent.

[cardholder]

Martin may be a nice guy but he is self-obsessed and selfish. It's up to him what he does with 'his' life but to inflict such a narrow range on his children is beyond comprehension to me. I also detected a slightly mocking tone from the Thai interviewer. If someone wants to be a dirt farmer that's ok but to deny one's children the opportunity to be so much more than that defies credulity.

<snip>

Martin is putting his own desires for happiness and satisfaction above those of his children. That is wrong.

I disagree. He is raising them perfectly fine for their environment. He's not forcing anything upon them or taking anything away from them. Parents are pretty much free to raise their children however they wish. I really don't understand how people can judge other people on this issue. I should say that I am not a parent.

I this is the one issue I have - he IS forcing them to adopt the lifestyle of his choice. No different to a Thai father - except that Martin can clearly offer them much. We agree as much in your previous post where you recognised that they may wish to go on to a big city or university. My impression is that Martin does not want that for them, he wants to perpetuate village life. IMPOSSIBLE ! they will want to advance because (whether he likes or not) his influence will give peer group advantage. This is then my issue - surely he should be passing on as much knowledge and education to his kids as possible (including the English language skills - Buddha knows how inadequate English teaching is in the schools compared to even Cambodia).

Even birds bring up their young to be independent and fly the nest. The greatest gift Martin can give is some of that knowledge and experience that he dropped out from.

[IsaanUSA]

But aren't all parents forcing their children to adopt the lifestyle of their choice? That's part of what being a parent is all about (right? Again, I'm not a parent.).

I do agree with you though on your other points.

[downtown]

and it shows you're not a parent. im not rich by any stretch of the imagination but im going to make sure my daughter gets the best start in life .what she chooses to do later in life is down to her - as long as she's happy i will be happy. and y'all say its his kids so his decision. but i would liken it to the parent who decides what religious faith their child will follow in dogmatic fashion.

[rgs2001uk]

Thank you for taking my reply sincerly. I am sometimes afraid to post in debates on TV.

I did watch some other videos of Martin on youtube. Apparently he was a straight A student back in England, so I assume he is a smart fellow. The parents of the other village children probably came from the same village, and their higher education would be very limited compared with Martin's. This alone would be a great benefit for his children compared with the other village children.

As his children get older, they will become more independent. They may wish to leave the village and go to work in the city of Khon Kaen. Possibly even go to the University. Martin will be able to give much better advice regarding financial issues/planning. He will have more knowledge of processes (such as job/school/banking applications). He can pass down knowledge on how to deal with different types of people his children will encounter along the way that a rural villager might never encounter as well as teaching them tolerance for different types of people. Martin seems pretty open to all types of people. Martin is much more knowledgable on world history and other factual data from around the world. His children will not be so ignorant in general.

I'm kind of on the spot and I'm having some difficulty coming up with a big list of benefits, but I think Martin's higher education and world travels alone will have a great benefit for his children versus other children's parents in the village.

The sad thing is that his journey will most likely include some rough heartbreak when his children decide that village life is not for them. He is so set on bringing his children up "right" that when one of his children decides they want to be a banker, it is going to break Martin's heart.

"Possibly even go to the University"

On the sort of income he is generating it may be a financial struggle.

Are you aware of how some students finance themselves through higher education in Thailand, there are bars in Bkk full of students, not to mention the various, karaoke bars, snooker halls or those who are 'sponsored' by a sugar daddy.

"He can pass down knowledge on how to deal with different types of people his children will encounter along the way"

His children with deal with people in the Thai way.

You will be aware of the rigid hierarchical system that exists in Thailand, the pee/nong patronage system where are Thais are taught their place in society and how to interact with their peers.

My mrs was in a shop with a friends wife, after completing her business the shop assistant handed the goods to the other woman, the assistant mistakenly assumed the other women was the maid, based on the way she spoke and dressed.

Take a visit to the local market and you will see people you wont even talk to the vendors, the customer will point with their hand then hold two or three fingers up to indicate the quantity required.

I have witnessed Thais turn their back on people they have no wish to converse with, not even acknowledging the others prescence.

"Martin is much more knowledgable on world history and other factual data from around the world."

He may well be, but of what use is this knowledge to an Issan dirt farmer?

"when one of his children decides they want to be a banker"

I dont know his financial position, are you aware of the costs involved in securing employment in certain positions in a bank?

The costs involved in raising a form of bond may be beyond him.

"Apparently he was a straight A student back in England, so I assume he is a smart fellow"

Educated doesnt mean smart, I have encountered many educated idiots.

The above his not knocking his educational achievements, an mere observation on my part.

"The sad thing is that his journey will most likely include some rough heartbreak when his children decide that village life is not for them."

Concur, when I witness issan people leaving the fields in droves for employment elsewhere its a bridge he will have to cross when the time arrives.

"I am sometimes afraid to post in debates on TV.'

Dont be, come one come all, the more the merrier.

[Xangsamhua]

Martin Wheeler's short autobiography (2008) is here: http://amandalv.blog...s/28604584.html

He was clearly born to be a farmer, so the academic or professional life he was educated for in England just wasn't an option for him, and farming as a livelihood would not have been within reach for him there.

He is a highly intelligent man and I think you can see from his comments that he brings an intelligent and well-informed approach to his farming and his views on life, money, happiness, self-sufficiency, etc.. I suspect that, if he continues as he is, he will do very well.

[patongster]

Good for him. In his home country of England he would be a nobody, in Thailand he is a somebody. Looks like he is enjoying his life, how many people can say that?

[jay-uk]

spot on....

[SimonD]

I don't think anyone here disputes that Martin has found 'his' dream life but the debate has spread to encompass the effect that narrow view is likely to have on the chances of his children bettering themselves. There is a bigger picture here and it's not just about Martin.

How many of us, on this forum, come from backgrounds where our parents wanted nothing more than for us to be exactly like them? Very few or none I would imagine. Didn't your parents make sacrifices to enable you to have a life that was better than theirs? Mine did and I thank them for it.

Don't give me the bull about the constraints of Thai heirarchy or social order. Thailand is not fossilised as it may have been in the past but that is not even the point. People can make change over time but they need the opportunity and encouragement to do so. Martin is denying his children one of those opportunities because it suits his self-conceit.

Good luck to Martin. He's obviously got what (little) he wants out of life but to rob his children of that bit extra (ie: bi-lingual skills) when it would cost him nothing, is pure arrogance. He knows better does he? It would be interesting to see how his kids feel in ten or fifteen years time.

@ IsaanUSA: Kindly don't edit my posts in future to take my comments out of context. My inclusion of my missus' views was a valid part of my argument and for you to <snip> it out was unwarrented, and against forum rules. I also agree with the poster who says it shows you don't have children. It certainly does.

[rgs2001uk]

Don't give me the bull about the constraints of Thai heirarchy or social order. Thailand is not fossilised as it may have been in the past but that is not even the point.

I must live in a different Thailand to you, constraints of the Thai system, try and get your offspring a commission in the RTAF, a position within the civil service, immigration dep't, or a job with Thai Airways and see how far you get without the help of the patronage system.

When was the last time, or should I say the first time you saw a Thai question anyone in authority, a teacher or doctor for example.

Why is it everytime a Thai has a problem they will enlist the help of an intermediary, preferably someone of 'status" within the community to help them?

The same country where the use of an inappropriate personal pronoun or incorrect wai can cause offence.

What do you think all those baskets of goodies you see in the shops at this time of year are for?

Thats just off the top of my head, but as I said I must be in a different part of the country to you.

Edited December 30, 2011 by rgs2001uk

[SimonD]

When was the last time, or should I say the first time you saw a Thai question anyone in authority, a teacher or doctor for example.

I agree we must live in different Thai worlds. Although I'm not denying that the obsequious behaviour you describe doesn't exist it's not universal. One only has to look at the 'red shirt' demonstrations against the government in recents years to see that the rural and impoverished challenge to authority exists. The rights and the wrongs of that whole issue and the people behind it are immaterial. The point is they don't appear to be kow-towing to authority. Change comes about when a people learn about the injustices that hold them back but that is an argument for another thread as to fully explain my opinions on this matter would contravene forum policy, which I am not going to do.

My Thai lady has no qualms about challenging authority either. It's got her into trouble a few times but she doesn't hold with the notion that 'things can never change' and I believe more and more Thais will begin to think like her. I don't know what Thais you know but the ones I do have some fire in their bellies and good for them.

To get back on-topic, although I take your point that patronage does exist in some circles and for some professions (as it does the world over) it in no way denies my assertion that a good education is a way out of the poverty trap into which so many rural Thais are locked, and that is the very thing that Martin is denying his children.

[bergen]

He would be looked more up to by the Thais if he taught the children English.

The children would get a higher status, which is important in Thai society, and better/more opportunities in their future. The English they learn in school is not worth much - at least not in my area.

[rgs2001uk]

When was the last time, or should I say the first time you saw a Thai question anyone in authority, a teacher or doctor for example.

I agree we must live in different Thai worlds. Although I'm not denying that the obsequious behaviour you describe doesn't exist it's not universal. One only has to look at the 'red shirt' demonstrations against the government in recents years to see that the rural and impoverished challenge to authority exists. The rights and the wrongs of that whole issue and the people behind it are immaterial. The point is they don't appear to be kow-towing to authority. Change comes about when a people learn about the injustices that hold them back but that is an argument for another thread as to fully explain my opinions on this matter would contravene forum policy, which I am not going to do.

My Thai lady has no qualms about challenging authority either. It's got her into trouble a few times but she doesn't hold with the notion that 'things can never change' and I believe more and more Thais will begin to think like her. I don't know what Thais you know but the ones I do have some fire in their bellies and good for them.

To get back on-topic, although I take your point that patronage does exist in some circles and for some professions (as it does the world over) it in no way denies my assertion that a good education is a way out of the poverty trap into which so many rural Thais are locked, and that is the very thing that Martin is denying his children.

Simon,

for examples of the hierarchical system I refer to, you need only look at such things as sin sot.

Nang Sao Anchalee with her MBA from a decent uni knows her place in society and her parents know her worth.

Little Lek from Surin divorced with 2 kids in tow is a different kettle of fish, and as such any Thai man thinking of taking her on also knows her place in society ergo sin sot.

Other examples include, monk parties and funerals, nothing more than an exercise in trying to buy face (in my opinion) and hence move up the pecking order of the local totem pole.

Next time you are at a wedding party have a look at where the guests sit, take a look at the VIP tables and the whisky for example that is placed on them, they aint knocking back Sang Som.

Seeing as we are talking upcountry, you will be familiar with the term, puu yai baan.

Whether I agree with this (caste) system or not is immaterial, the fact is it exists.

My mrs lived and worked overseas before I ever met her, she knows there is an alternative.

Best of luck with your mrs, sounds a good un, like my mrs who also wont take shit anymore and also has got into trouble, its usually passed of as "mia farang", the polite Thai way of trying to excuse her for not kow towing anymore.

Other examples of "The System" taking care of their own, well just in the last year, I hear of no further progress in the Rang Sit car accident that resulted in the deaths of many university students this time last year, what about the kid in the Porsche who knocked over a poor Laotian girl killing her outright and splitting the body in half who flees the scene, any further news on the Mor Muk road rage incident? All these will just be swept under the carpet.

We can only thank our lucky stars it wasnt ours who were the victims.

I concur with your point ref an education, no man is an island, whilst I may admire Martin for standing by his principals what he forgets is as a parent he now has responsibilities, thus compromise is required, it doesnt mean he has to sacrifice or sell out, it means he has to start thinking of his children and put them first, to do otherwise is a sign of immaturity.

[Naam]

the video clip contains a wealth of information for a psychologer or psychiatrist to evaluate the personality of the "Farang farmer cum philosopher" and that also applies to the various comments from TV-members.

[Gary A]

Like it or not, having the ability to speak English in Thailand is a huge advantage. Even if his children do decide to stay on the farm, being fluent in English certainly won't hurt anything.

Like most normal parents, I wanted my children to have any advantage that I could give them. There is absolutely no advantage to denying them education.

[cardholder]

When was the last time, or should I say the first time you saw a Thai question anyone in authority, a teacher or doctor for example.

I agree we must live in different Thai worlds. Although I'm not denying that the obsequious behaviour you describe doesn't exist it's not universal. One only has to look at the 'red shirt' demonstrations against the government in recents years to see that the rural and impoverished challenge to authority exists. The rights and the wrongs of that whole issue and the people behind it are immaterial. The point is they don't appear to be kow-towing to authority. Change comes about when a people learn about the injustices that hold them back but that is an argument for another thread as to fully explain my opinions on this matter would contravene forum policy, which I am not going to do.

My Thai lady has no qualms about challenging authority either. It's got her into trouble a few times but she doesn't hold with the notion that 'things can never change' and I believe more and more Thais will begin to think like her. I don't know what Thais you know but the ones I do have some fire in their bellies and good for them.

To get back on-topic, although I take your point that patronage does exist in some circles and for some professions (as it does the world over) it in no way denies my assertion that a good education is a way out of the poverty trap into which so many rural Thais are locked, and that is the very thing that Martin is denying his children.

Simon,

for examples of the hierarchical system I refer to, you need only look at such things as sin sot.

Nang Sao Anchalee with her MBA from a decent uni knows her place in society and her parents know her worth.

Little Lek from Surin divorced with 2 kids in tow is a different kettle of fish, and as such any Thai man thinking of taking her on also knows her place in society ergo sin sot.

Other examples include, monk parties and funerals, nothing more than an exercise in trying to buy face (in my opinion) and hence move up the pecking order of the local totem pole.

Next time you are at a wedding party have a look at where the guests sit, take a look at the VIP tables and the whisky for example that is placed on them, they aint knocking back Sang Som.

Seeing as we are talking upcountry, you will be familiar with the term, puu yai baan.

Whether I agree with this (caste) system or not is immaterial, the fact is it exists.

My mrs lived and worked overseas before I ever met her, she knows there is an alternative.

Best of luck with your mrs, sounds a good un, like my mrs who also wont take shit anymore and also has got into trouble, its usually passed of as "mia farang", the polite Thai way of trying to excuse her for not kow towing anymore.

Other examples of "The System" taking care of their own, well just in the last year, I hear of no further progress in the Rang Sit car accident that resulted in the deaths of many university students this time last year, what about the kid in the Porsche who knocked over a poor Laotian girl killing her outright and splitting the body in half who flees the scene, any further news on the Mor Muk road rage incident? All these will just be swept under the carpet.

We can only thank our lucky stars it wasnt ours who were the victims.

I concur with your point ref an education, no man is an island, whilst I may admire Martin for standing by his principals what he forgets is as a parent he now has responsibilities, thus compromise is required, it doesnt mean he has to sacrifice or sell out, it means he has to start thinking of his children and put them first, to do otherwise is a sign of immaturity.

Brilliant post

(following a good from Simon - although I did disagree with the red shirt analogy, I think they were kow-towing to a different authority that paid them a higher price).

There is a common theme of support for Martin and his chosen way of life. There are many doing similar but Martin is educated and eloquent so he has a platform to speak from.

The only debate appears to over his apparent 'control' of his children in not wanting them to learn English. I have read all posts with great interest but I remain convinced that this denial is akin to having an aspirin and not giving it when your child has a fever. Learning English WILL give them an advantage and I suspect Martin would be a very good teacher.

[SunsetT]

Very interesting -I take my hat off to the guy -its the sort of way of life I THINK I might have tried if I had come to Thailand and met a country girl when I was a lot younger. I have always found hard physical graft very fulfilling, as opposed to cerebral work which I am capable of and qualified to do. I put this down to my working class genes.

Then there's the more complex philosophical side. His theory is great, and he is still an Idealist as I used to be. But I think he is unrealistically glamourising and idealising Thai rural life. No way of life is perfect for all people in all places at all times. All have their good and bad aspects. Rural village life certainly has it's intolerant, narrow minded, tittle-tattling, dark side which in Thailand is compounded by superstition. Further, his kids should, I think, learn English because such a limited language as Thai and/or Esaan Thai must restrict depth and breadth of thought. After all, our thinking is absolutely limited by the breadth of vocabulary of the language/languages we think in, i.e., the number of words and their meanings. It is not that English is superior, it is simply 'bigger' and therefore must facilitate broader and deeper thought. And, of course, for better or worse, English is the 2nd language of the World. And why stop at English -Chinese will soon be a must to enrich thought.

Many have asked: What about his children's education and future? Beyond instinctual reproduction, I think that the evolution of human nature, human life, and human consciousness, and the opening and expansion of the collective and individual heart and mind, is what life is all about. Simple really ! This comes, I think, through free-thinking education and varied life experience and travel. Further, I believe that in order to understand something in life, you must first experience it, then get outside of it. You can then look at it 'objectively' and come to some understanding. When you are caught up in something, are a part of it, it is impossible to understand it. We can never understand the society and culture we are born into, or way of life we are living, until we get outside of it somehow, e.g., move on, try different jobs, travel, live in other countries for extended periods, mix and live among people of other countries and cultures, etc. Only then can we look back and understand our native society and culture and how, along with other factors like family, it has 'programmed' and moulded us as individuals, for better or worse. Then we might have half a chance of understanding ourselves and others.

The point of all this is that Martin seems to be taking for granted and forgetting the 'free' and free-thinking education he enjoyed which developed his intelligence in a free and open socially-mobile society which has given him the financial means, encouraged and allowed him to travel, and enabled him to open his mind to make the lifestyle choice(s) that he has made. I noted that his very first tenet for personal happiness was 'Freedom'. Ironically, he is denying this freedom to his own children! He does not seem to realise that the life he is advocating, combined with Thai education, or lack of it, if you are born into it, and not had the luxury of choosing it, after enjoying the Freedom and benefits of another culture, is the antithesis of the freedom he has enjoyed, and which condemns most people to a basic instinctual life in an emotional, financial, cultural, and nonintellectual straightjacket!

Personally, I suspect that eventually any human survivors of the Earth's (Gaya's) backlash to our ecological negligence, and/or World warfare through overpopulation and limited resources will all be driven back to this kind of self-subsistence on the land. So maybe I'm wrong and all power to Martin to be preparing his kids, knowingly or unknowingly, for this kind of scenario.

Possibly relevant was a recent TV news feature I caught reporting that there is an exodus in Japan from Tokyo and the cities to the country of people seeking a more simple rural existence living and working on the land. But maybe they are just trying to reduce, quite understandably, their risk from earthquakes and Tsunamis.

Happy New Year!

[CNXBKKMAN]

Would he be classified as a socialist.

I would classify him a wise farmer.

[CNXBKKMAN]

Martin may be a nice guy but he is self-obsessed and selfish. It's up to him what he does with 'his' life but to inflict such a narrow range on his children is beyond comprehension to me. I also detected a slightly mocking tone from the Thai interviewer. If someone wants to be a dirt farmer that's ok but to deny one's children the opportunity to be so much more than that defies credulity.

<snip>

Martin is putting his own desires for happiness and satisfaction above those of his children. That is wrong.

I disagree. He is raising them perfectly fine for their environment. He's not forcing anything upon them or taking anything away from them. Parents are pretty much free to raise their children however they wish. I really don't understand how people can judge other people on this issue. I should say that I am not a parent.

I this is the one issue I have - he IS forcing them to adopt the lifestyle of his choice. No different to a Thai father - except that Martin can clearly offer them much. We agree as much in your previous post where you recognised that they may wish to go on to a big city or university. My impression is that Martin does not want that for them, he wants to perpetuate village life. IMPOSSIBLE ! they will want to advance because (whether he likes or not) his influence will give peer group advantage. This is then my issue - surely he should be passing on as much knowledge and education to his kids as possible (including the English language skills - Buddha knows how inadequate English teaching is in the schools compared to even Cambodia).

Even birds bring up their young to be independent and fly the nest. The greatest gift Martin can give is some of that knowledge and experience that he dropped out from.

"he is forcing them to adopt the lifestyle of his choice". Surely when the children are adult they can leave home, do anything they want, work in Bangkok, eat KFC whatever? I didn't get the impression his kids aren't free to choose their own path in life. I would guess his kids are smarter and have a better understanding of the pitfalls of life if they ever do go to work in BKK or to college in another part of the country,

[cardholder]

Martin may be a nice guy but he is self-obsessed and selfish. It's up to him what he does with 'his' life but to inflict such a narrow range on his children is beyond comprehension to me. I also detected a slightly mocking tone from the Thai interviewer. If someone wants to be a dirt farmer that's ok but to deny one's children the opportunity to be so much more than that defies credulity.

<snip>

Martin is putting his own desires for happiness and satisfaction above those of his children. That is wrong.

I disagree. He is raising them perfectly fine for their environment. He's not forcing anything upon them or taking anything away from them. Parents are pretty much free to raise their children however they wish. I really don't understand how people can judge other people on this issue. I should say that I am not a parent.

I this is the one issue I have - he IS forcing them to adopt the lifestyle of his choice. No different to a Thai father - except that Martin can clearly offer them much. We agree as much in your previous post where you recognised that they may wish to go on to a big city or university. My impression is that Martin does not want that for them, he wants to perpetuate village life. IMPOSSIBLE ! they will want to advance because (whether he likes or not) his influence will give peer group advantage. This is then my issue - surely he should be passing on as much knowledge and education to his kids as possible (including the English language skills - Buddha knows how inadequate English teaching is in the schools compared to even Cambodia).

Even birds bring up their young to be independent and fly the nest. The greatest gift Martin can give is some of that knowledge and experience that he dropped out from.

"he is forcing them to adopt the lifestyle of his choice". Surely when the children are adult they can leave home, do anything they want, work in Bangkok, eat KFC whatever? I didn't get the impression his kids aren't free to choose their own path in life. I would guess his kids are smarter and have a better understanding of the pitfalls of life if they ever do go to work in BKK or to college in another part of the country,

Do you not think they would have even greater opportunity if they could speak fluent English ?

A gift that their father could easily provide.

[downtown]

whos this Gaya character then? someone out of Streetfighter 4?