When Will We Learn The Lessons Of Road Carnage?: Thai Opinion

[kimamey]

The Government should come up with a slogan like "Only 300 in 2020", because if they worked really hard, they may just achieve that. Anything less and they are only fooling themselves.

Rural Thai people rarely have licenses and learnt to drive by osmosis. They regularly drive drunk with a truck full of people. They don't wear helmets and bikes often don't work properly.

If Western countries cannot solve the problem with all the education, laws, police, breathalyzers and penalties, what chance does Thailand have?

It's lip service. If they were serious, they could make a dent on the deaths and injuries. All we get is reasons why they can't solve the problem, not plans on how they will.

No Government has been brave enough to tackle this problem...and none will.

I don't think it's possible to stop this completely and it's stupid to suggest it is. I think you'll find that most western countries do a lot better than Thailand but then they have proper police, properly paid and properly equipped.

Edited January 1, 2012 by kimamey

[lovetotravel]

The problem with comparing with the states is that there the medical response is much quicker than in Thailand. Give them the same response time and quality and they will be right up there with Thailand.

You mean the "meat wagons"? HA! I shudder to think I would ever need to ride in one.

I think you would also have to make the police there more like the police here. Then you would for sure get the same results, and maybe worse. Until then, the fines are so stiff, drivers are becoming extremely cautious. And hardly anybody there rides scooters around town. Weather usually doesn't permit it.

[spidermike007]

Perhaps the biggest impediment to road safety is the Thai police, and the lack of driving etiquette, taught to new drivers here. In many countries of the world, we drive safely and courteously, out of consideration (based on the driving etiquette training we have received), and fear of the police. There is no fear of the police here. They have little interest in making sure the public drives safely. They are like toy soldiers, and have little skill, desire, motivation, and ability to ensure the public's safety. Allowing people to ride in the back of pick up trucks, allowing vans to drive with 25 people inside, and allowing trucks to transport 40 of their workers in the rear flat bed, is considered insane, in any other nation. Not in Thailand.

In Koh Samui, the police are the worst in Thailand. They never issue speeding tickets, and though the police chief exclaims on occasion, when several people die in motorbike accidents on a period of a few days, that he will force his department to enforce the helmet law, it never gets done. They continue to collect 500 baht tea money fines. But, no bikes are confiscated, and nobody faces anything but the inconvenience of paying a small fine. They pull people over for a few days, and then it goes away. The lack of helmet enforcement is the single biggest cause of motorbike related deaths on the island. And that figure is up to 60 per month! Mostly farengs, who go home in wooden boxes, due mostly to ineffective law enforcement, by the toy police here. The mayor does not care, nor does the Surat Thani govt., nor the central govt., or something would be done about this travesty. Also, in Lamai Beach they do not even enforce the one way driving, resulting in many accidents. The police in Thailand are the most amateur group of law enforcement agents in the world, perhaps with the exception of Guyana, Surinam, and maybe a couple of sub Saharan countries in Africa. And this is the 22nd largest economy in the world? Not for too much longer, I fear.

[KKvampire]

When? When better mass-transit systems are in place. When there are less privately owned cars and motorcycles. The reason why there are so many cars is because mass transit systems are virtually non-existent. Perhaps the private vehicle corporations' lobby is so strong that they impede any plan to reduce car sales. All goes back to a different problem altogether.

Are you kidding? Thailand has better mass transit than most western countries. (Not meaning the quality of vehicle, only the system.)

Peddal that rubbish elsewhere.

Thailand has what? You need to get to a few more cities in Europe, Bangkok has a Sky Train with 2 lines and a Subway with one line . The rest of Thailand, do we really need to say anything. Pedal your fantasies elsewhere

Edited January 2, 2012 by KKvampire

[landofidiots]

When will Thai's learn good road manners, million dollar question, possibly through good education, good politicians at all levels, people believing in them selves not subservent to the rich, people becoming more vocal on issues such as good roads, poor building standards in public infrastructure ie traffic control lights and I guess the true indicator will be when they start stopping at X walk signals.One can recommend the slashing of funds for the millatry and other instituions that are a waste, improvements to standards, regulations in government departments . Other than that the word is hopless. Happy new year.

of course! but this is logical and coming from someone who CARES about safety and doing things the right way sadly most of the people here don't share your common sense or care to be regulated in any way.

[landofidiots]

The change must start at the self-centered essence of the local Psyche, which I believe is amplified while driving do to the anonymity achieved when inside a vehicle. This self-centered issue can be experienced by simply walking down a busy sidewalk in BKK, it is an exercise in evasive maneuvering just to keep from getting run over. However, at the face-to-face level, if eye contact is made, whilst you are about to be collided with or there simply is nowhere else for you to go an individual will usually give a head-nod and make a small allowance for the other person.

This is not the case behind the wheel; Everyone else be damned "I" (this is the collective "I" of the intellectual adolescent drivers on the road with no skill or training to operate a motor-vehicle) am the most important soul in the universe and ...

• if you allow more than a car's length between you and the vehicle you are following I will blast my horn, flash my lights, illegally pass you in an incredibly unsafe manor risking the lives of oncoming motorist so I can wedge my vehicle in front of yours!
  
• if you want to make a right turn into your condo across the oncoming lanes of traffic I am traveling on I will not stop and you will wait all day long with your signal blinking unless you risk your life by physically blocking my lane of travel until there is no possible way I can get my vehicle by, then you may go as I inch my car ever closer to yours while you complete your turning maneuver to prove you are in my way and I am more important!
  
• if you are waiting for the right turn arrow to turn green in a legal and safe manor I will go out into the oncoming lane of traffic as soon as the light turns from 200 meters away and race to the intersection causing a bottle-neck at the turing juncture causing those who patiently waited their turn to miss the light.
  
• if you do not get the hell out of my way on the expressway, even thought the lane to your left is occupied and there is no way in hell you could move over, I will flash my lights and ride 10 centimeters off your bumper while we are traveling at 120kpm, because I MUST go faster and no one's safety matters more than the fact that I must go faster! I don't care that there is a backed up toll-both 2 KM's ahead and we are all going to get there at the same time I must go faster!!
  
• if you dare try to walk across the street I am driving/riding on I will not stop as it is much to difficult/inconvenient for me to apply slight pressure to my brake pedal/lever slowing my vehicles pace of travel enough for you to walk across the street....you must run for your life and hope like hell your feet don't fail you!!
  
• if you etc, etc, etc, etc ,etc, etc!!!
  

Until this "me,myself, and I is all that matters" attitude is changed I don't not see the driving safety improving. The laws of the road are all already in place, but the police will not enforce them properly because they have this same mentality and are to damned concerned about filling their own pockets will ill-gotten-gains!

Rant over, drive safe and keep your head low!

Great post! points that I often mutter to myself while driving in Phuket. When I am driving in a safe manor, the speed limit, being curteous allowing others to turn in front of me etc sometimes I will get the finger from a slightly rolled down window, not rolled down all the way mind you (they don't want me to see their face) and a broken English (fak yuuu) yelled out the window by the tough guys of Phuket. I wonder what did I do wrong then I realize oh Im driving correctly and here in bizaro world thats unacceptable. Drive like a selfish idiot if you want to fit in.

[AlongtheChaoPraya]

What a stupid topic.

Did not even bother to read it.

When will any nation learn the lessons of road carnage?

Is there no other source of news in Thailand?

<snip>

Yesterday, coming back from Hua Hin, the mini-van driver threw us all to the left or right when he changed lanes - it was always a sudden action. Then, when the fast-driving traffic started to congest and he had to slow down a little, he would hit the brakes and everybody would look up and gasp thinking something unexpected had happened.

He also tail-gated, honked his horn, and anybody in his way in “his” coveted, fast, right lane was asking for it (like in the UK??)

At the first red light as we were approaching the Vic Monument, many people jumped out. Even the Thais were complaining and laughing in disbelief at this airhead.

We did make it back in just over two hours. But nobody was in a hurry, and nobody wanted to raise the risk level – especially on a holiday weekend – to save a few minutes.

Something could be done about this. A crash is a serious matter, and can ruin your day.

Edited January 2, 2012 by metisdead
Foreign language removed. English is the only acceptable language, except within the Thai language forum, where of course using Thai is allowed.

[Oberkommando]

Thailand has better mass transit than most western countries.

Utter nonsense.

[spidermike007]

The change must start at the self-centered essence of the local Psyche, which I believe is amplified while driving do to the anonymity achieved when inside a vehicle. This self-centered issue can be experienced by simply walking down a busy sidewalk in BKK, it is an exercise in evasive maneuvering just to keep from getting run over. However, at the face-to-face level, if eye contact is made, whilst you are about to be collided with or there simply is nowhere else for you to go an individual will usually give a head-nod and make a small allowance for the other person.

This is not the case behind the wheel; Everyone else be damned "I" (this is the collective "I" of the intellectual adolescent drivers on the road with no skill or training to operate a motor-vehicle) am the most important soul in the universe and ...

• if you allow more than a car's length between you and the vehicle you are following I will blast my horn, flash my lights, illegally pass you in an incredibly unsafe manor risking the lives of oncoming motorist so I can wedge my vehicle in front of yours!
  
• if you want to make a right turn into your condo across the oncoming lanes of traffic I am traveling on I will not stop and you will wait all day long with your signal blinking unless you risk your life by physically blocking my lane of travel until there is no possible way I can get my vehicle by, then you may go as I inch my car ever closer to yours while you complete your turning maneuver to prove you are in my way and I am more important!
  
• if you are waiting for the right turn arrow to turn green in a legal and safe manor I will go out into the oncoming lane of traffic as soon as the light turns from 200 meters away and race to the intersection causing a bottle-neck at the turing juncture causing those who patiently waited their turn to miss the light.
  
• if you do not get the hell out of my way on the expressway, even thought the lane to your left is occupied and there is no way in hell you could move over, I will flash my lights and ride 10 centimeters off your bumper while we are traveling at 120kpm, because I MUST go faster and no one's safety matters more than the fact that I must go faster! I don't care that there is a backed up toll-both 2 KM's ahead and we are all going to get there at the same time I must go faster!!
  
• if you dare try to walk across the street I am driving/riding on I will not stop as it is much to difficult/inconvenient for me to apply slight pressure to my brake pedal/lever slowing my vehicles pace of travel enough for you to walk across the street....you must run for your life and hope like hell your feet don't fail you!!
  
• if you etc, etc, etc, etc ,etc, etc!!!
  

Until this "me,myself, and I is all that matters" attitude is changed I don't not see the driving safety improving. The laws of the road are all already in place, but the police will not enforce them properly because they have this same mentality and are to damned concerned about filling their own pockets will ill-gotten-gains!

Rant over, drive safe and keep your head low!

Great post! points that I often mutter to myself while driving in Phuket. When I am driving in a safe manor, the speed limit, being curteous allowing others to turn in front of me etc sometimes I will get the finger from a slightly rolled down window, not rolled down all the way mind you (they don't want me to see their face) and a broken English (fak yuuu) yelled out the window by the tough guys of Phuket. I wonder what did I do wrong then I realize oh Im driving correctly and here in bizaro world thats unacceptable. Drive like a selfish idiot if you want to fit in.

The unfortunate reality here, is that as foreigners, we have to come to terms with the fact that what we know as common sense, reason, logic, and common courtesy do not exist here, or are something we will rarely ever see. It is like living on Mars. Perhaps that is part of the allure of the place?

[spidermike007]

Thailand has better mass transit than most western countries.

Utter nonsense.

Well, the sky train, and the subway are way better than what you find on Los Angeles, Atlanta, and many other large cities around the world. The buses are funky, and leave something to be desired, but the sky train is a delight to use.

[spidermike007]

Thailand has better mass transit than most western countries.

Utter nonsense.

At the very least, take his name, and report him to the company he works for. If he gets fired for careless driving, the work will get around the company, and the other drivers may get scared. They will not drive safely, due to being careful, reasonable, prudent, or due to common sense or any sort of reasoning. But, they may drive more carefully out of fear of losing their jobs, an losing face with their family. This whole place seems to operate on some sort of reverse psychology. Reason, common sense, and safety do not seem to apply.

[transam]

Fine them off the road.

A 10,000bt flat fine for every offence, whilst appearing high, is just a payment to be made by offenders. Those that don't break any laws don't have anything to worry about.

Cannot pay - then imprisonment.

2nd and subsequent offences would mean doubling of the fines each time.

Simple, and cost effective.

They would all very quickly learn!

You would need a very big prison the size of the UK. Thais know the Police do nothing, even if they see an offense.

I was in a Police car in Ubon a few weeks back and at a junction a pickup would not let us make a turn, hassling the Police car, l was thinking why doesn't the cop driver put the siren on or give the guy some verbal, but no, nothing, totally accepted, even a cop car.

PS. I was on duty, just returning from a bar, not under arrest.

[huahinjoe]

Somebody should start a video blog and record everything on a helmet cam or inside in the car...

At least the media should spend some time to do some undercover stories about the police ineffectiveness and compare the european/american driving tests to the thai for an example.

A good weekly covering story, mix it with gossip and funny and some food will be enough interesting to see by thai ppl in the tv for sure. Oh sorry, and dont forget some good looking superstars too! That way maybe they will look it also and listen to it...

Or what about if they show up some of the accidently killed people previous family photos between the soap shows together with the advertises? oh no, they will feel bad sure... cannot do that..

Anyway, its only the darwin solution which will work, who die, has to die, just pity the innocent lives and disabled people...

Bad education, uncompetent driving license system, money more imporant than lifes and lack of police checks. In my many years in thailand i met police once on the highways, they wanted to fine me because i drive in the inner lane, but come'on the lane on the left was so bad, its shaking out me from the car... Anyway, life here like this... In europe the police is haunting for the ppl, in thailand u can see checkpoints in every holidays but they never stop you, just show they still there somewhere behind eating somtam.

Dont tell me it will too difficult to install a permanent system which check the speeding drivers and calculate the speed of cars between the town. It's just another factor why tourist like to come here because the lack of police and everybody can do what they want. Including selling your daughter or driving mad or bribe officials... It's all the same, this is amazing thailand...

[Payboy]

Thailand has better mass transit than most western countries.

By western, you mean not over 1,000km west of Bangkok, no?

[transam]

When? When better mass-transit systems are in place. When there are less privately owned cars and motorcycles. The reason why there are so many cars is because mass transit systems are virtually non-existent. Perhaps the private vehicle corporations' lobby is so strong that they impede any plan to reduce car sales. All goes back to a different problem altogether.

Are you kidding? Thailand has better mass transit than most western countries. (Not meaning the quality of vehicle, only the system.)

Peddal that rubbish elsewhere.

Your post should be in Pub forum for a laugh.