74-Year-Old American Expat Faces Deportation Over Loan Sharking: Phuket

[MAJIC]

10% interest until payday is not too bad. Typical rate for the Filipinos, i would have thought. I am sure that the guy did not know about the maximum rate of interest law. Ms Alpay was his Filipina secretary, i read. Are there so many Pinoys in Phuket, 500 ?

I think my calculations are correct, according to me, he was making over 30,000 USD a month from the interest, 15 million baht @ 10% interest per month. Loan sharking

15 mill investment could earn you that kind of money if put with a very good investment company what does concern me is that the maximum interest rate is 15% per year I know a few farangs who have got into financial difficulties and are paying that type of interest per month to wealthy Thai's and dare I suggest that there are Thai loan sharks doing the same to there fellow country men/woman it is called robbing the poor to make them rich it happens all over the world unfortunatley.

Are you referring to his making 30,000 dollars a month from a 15 million baht investment! What economic world do you live in?

74 Years old,Capital of 15 million baht,income of $30,000 per month,this greedy old Git,could end up the richest man in the graveyard.

[jeanpierre]

BIB = ?

Thank you...

Boys in Blue aka the police

brown

[LivinginKata]

BIB = ?

Thank you...

Boys in Blue aka the police

brown

Think we all have got that after all the corrections/posts, yes it's Boys In Brown.

[sawadeeken]

If it was against the law then so be it, let him suffer the concequences under the law. However all these calls of paracite this and evil that are just un-called for. No body forced the Pino's to borrow from him. The rates wern't hidden. They chose to enter into the agreement of their own free will and accord and this law is backwards. They say on one hand 15% ann max, yet there are no loan facilities availble to Pinos, or most expats for that matter at that rate.

So what are pepole supposed to do? I feel sorry for the guy.

You sound just like them........ If you had a water taxi in Bangkok during the floods, You would probably think it quite alright to charge somebody, who was up to their neck and going under, 500 baht just because they might agree to it. When the normal rate you usually charge is only 10 baht, Right??????

I don't feel sorry for him, I hope they railroad him and he does time. I know it will never happen - but I wish they would get every one of them, Thais, BIB's and all (I said "I know it will never happen). Even though it is probably right that he only got 'busted' because he was cutting into local's business, he is still 'greedy as a mafia' and deserves all he gets and maybe more.

[sawadeeken]

Wonder how many Thais have been arrested lately for loan sharking? Interesting how they are going after farengs, and holding them up to scrutiny. Meanwhile, the Thai private (no license) loan business is thriving, and nobody gets arrested, or even scrutinized. Fascinating police work.

Don't have any numbers, but have seen quite a few reports of Thais getting arrested for this lately.

I really hope that that is true - and picks up momentum....................

[KarenBravo]

Don't agree with your analogy. There is no more risk to the guy with the boat, flood, or, no flood.

For lenders of last resort, there is an inherent risk. The non-payment by the borrowers in this market is high.

The higher the risk, the more reward. Basic business rule.

This business is in all developing countries; Asia, S. America and Africa.

Guess what Dorothy, you ain't in Kansas anymore.

[sawadeeken]

Don't agree with your analogy. There is no more risk to the guy with the boat, flood, or, no flood.

For lenders of last resort, there is an inherent risk. The non-payment by the borrowers in this market is high.

The higher the risk, the more reward. Basic business rule.

This business is in all developing countries; Asia, S. America and Africa.

Guess what Dorothy, you ain't in Kansas anymore.

The analogy is that the guy in the boat is taking advantage of the guy who is 'hurtin' to increase personal wealth, Dorothy......

And I still don't think it is right, even though it is common in so many countries -- so is incest, rape, child labor, etc., Dorothy.

[dartvidar]

10% interest until payday is not too bad. Typical rate for the Filipinos, i would have thought. I am sure that the guy did not know about the maximum rate of interest law. Ms Alpay was his Filipina secretary, i read. Are there so many Pinoys in Phuket, 500 ?

I think my calculations are correct, according to me, he was making over 30,000 USD a month from the interest, 15 million baht @ 10% interest per month. Loan sharking

10% pr months is probably a to good deal for the Thais, thats why he was reported. I know Thai people who borrow out money to other Thai people for 10% pr day. If he was Thai, Burmes, Laos, Indian etc police would probably not take him, they had maybe just told him to increase his rate and give 50% to them.

[David Barker]

Over 4000% on wonga in the UK watch their adverts they are preying on old people

[samsiam]

15 mill investment could earn you that kind of money if put with a very good investment company

Really ??

[Johnniey]

Wonder how many Thais have been arrested lately for loan sharking? Interesting how they are going after farengs, and holding them up to scrutiny. Meanwhile, the Thai private (no license) loan business is thriving, and nobody gets arrested, or even scrutinized. Fascinating police work.

Thais don't need a work permit.

[janverbeem]

Wonder how many Thais have been arrested lately for loan sharking? Interesting how they are going after farengs, and holding them up to scrutiny. Meanwhile, the Thai private (no license) loan business is thriving, and nobody gets arrested, or even scrutinized. Fascinating police work.

Thais don't need a work permit.

Loan sharking is illegal,for thais as well.

[swerver]

BIB = ?

Thank you...

Boys in Blue aka the police

Shawndoc and all you other people who are using BIB (Boys in Blue) are way off base when you are referring to these guys in KHAKI.

Only the Royal Household Police uses the color Blue. How well I know, years ago when I bought the Nissan Cedric (which was imported from Japan) at that same time they also bought a fleet (a small one that is) of the same identical cars, and they were all BLUE.

To stay on the straight and narrow (you know what I mean) path all users of BIB while in Thailand should use BIK. You are not in NY here, there BIB is correct.

[Willeyeam]

Yes it is EVIL to charge interest at 10% per month, but he is doing the very same as every local money lender in all of the villages around here.

Sounds like some of his clients have found a good way to default on their repayments.

Bit of a dipshit to get involved in loaning money out to locals - he is probably lucky he didn't just get shot!

There are a few around my place that ended up on the bonfire for loaning out cash when the repayments became too much,

The thing is here though, some Thai must have set him up in the first place - you just don't walk into a town and set up as a moneylender - someone MUST come and ask for the loan in the first place.

Idon't condone him, I think he probably got suckered in to what he thought was a great deal in these days of low interest rates.

I was approached 3 years ago by a Thai (They all think we are multimillionaires) wanting to borrow 100K from me so he could loan it out in the village and we would split the 10% interest 50/50 - let's just say I didn't take him up.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Willeyeam

[stevenl]

Yes it is EVIL to charge interest at 10% per month, but he is doing the very same as every local money lender in all of the villages around here.

Sounds like some of his clients have found a good way to default on their repayments.

Bit of a dipshit to get involved in loaning money out to locals - he is probably lucky he didn't just get shot!

There are a few around my place that ended up on the bonfire for loaning out cash when the repayments became too much,

The thing is here though, some Thai must have set him up in the first place - you just don't walk into a town and set up as a moneylender - someone MUST come and ask for the loan in the first place.

Idon't condone him, I think he probably got suckered in to what he thought was a great deal in these days of low interest rates.

I was approached 3 years ago by a Thai (They all think we are multimillionaires) wanting to borrow 100K from me so he could loan it out in the village and we would split the 10% interest 50/50 - let's just say I didn't take him up.

Smart of him then to not lend to locals.

[Alexpho]

Could someone please answer this. If he was charging a total of 15% Annual Percentage Rate AND still holding on to their passports, this type of loan sharking would be legal right?

[housepainter]

Do the math.

1.6 m baht in interest a month if you believe fairies exist, pigs fly and the Thai police.

I don't.

Add to that the fact they acknowledge finding a paltry number of names [22?]. This contrasts enormously with the fictional 500+ they conjure up.

Also, why meet in a car park to receive money? Why carry the supposed payees passports?

What we do have here is the extortion of money byt not by an American and a phillippeano citizen. We do have a wealthy couple of foreigners who are likely prey for the corrupt police who operate as they wish and certainly with impunity.

The bail payments will never be seen again and I expect they were forced to be in cash and not through an agent where a lost deposit can be made. the latter being a fraction of the 100k demanded by the police in cahoots with any judge for sale.

The deportation would leave all assets at the mercy of the police who would carve up, top down, the home, car and rest of the possessions they can seize.

That is the reality.

That is what any and all farangs face when living in those corrupt hell holes that are called Phuket, Pattaya and Koh Samui.

Ignore the reality of smiley land at your peril.

Have you checked the necxt flight out yet?

[wxyz]

selective enforcement is not justice

[Willeyeam]

Yes it is EVIL to charge interest at 10% per month, but he is doing the very same as every local money lender in all of the villages around here.

Sounds like some of his clients have found a good way to default on their repayments.

Bit of a dipshit to get involved in loaning money out to locals - he is probably lucky he didn't just get shot!

There are a few around my place that ended up on the bonfire for loaning out cash when the repayments became too much,

The thing is here though, some Thai must have set him up in the first place - you just don't walk into a town and set up as a moneylender - someone MUST come and ask for the loan in the first place.

Idon't condone him, I think he probably got suckered in to what he thought was a great deal in these days of low interest rates.

I was approached 3 years ago by a Thai (They all think we are multimillionaires) wanting to borrow 100K from me so he could loan it out in the village and we would split the 10% interest 50/50 - let's just say I didn't take him up.

Smart of him then to not lend to locals.

Que?

[stevenl]

Yes it is EVIL to charge interest at 10% per month, but he is doing the very same as every local money lender in all of the villages around here.

Sounds like some of his clients have found a good way to default on their repayments.

Bit of a dipshit to get involved in loaning money out to locals - he is probably lucky he didn't just get shot!

There are a few around my place that ended up on the bonfire for loaning out cash when the repayments became too much,

The thing is here though, some Thai must have set him up in the first place - you just don't walk into a town and set up as a moneylender - someone MUST come and ask for the loan in the first place.

Idon't condone him, I think he probably got suckered in to what he thought was a great deal in these days of low interest rates.

I was approached 3 years ago by a Thai (They all think we are multimillionaires) wanting to borrow 100K from me so he could loan it out in the village and we would split the 10% interest 50/50 - let's just say I didn't take him up.

Smart of him then to not lend to locals.

Que?

According to the article he was only lending to countrymen of his partner, Fillipino's i.e.

[Lotusbluete]

I wonder how incapable of reading some of the posters are. One poster, Napat9 post # 20 asked the question about the meaning of “BiB” and Shawndoc post # 25 tried to answer it but got the colours wrong. So it was immediately corrected with the next post (Sateev post # 26).

But although this point has nothing to do with the topic of this thread and although it has been corrected already, posters like Tatsujin # 35, Evilbaz # 38, Ericthai # 44, KarenBravo # 53, Theo007 # 54, Tonto21 # 56, Visions # 63, Coxyatcity # 67, Thailand # 74, Dap # 82, Brewsta # 84 and Jeanpierre # 92 showed how little they care about other posts (standard excuse: Have no time to read all posts …) and obviously just want to get their name on the list and increase the number of their own posts.

Thanks to Living in Kata post # 93 to have stopped this nonsense.

[BookMan]

In the event that the charges are legitimate, then this man was a parasite. He can kiss his loan portfolio goodbye. I wonder what occupation he previously had. .

His loan portfolio might merely be handed on to someone else?

[FritsSikkink]

evil farang taking thai jobs again...

sad to see him go, hes probably a lot better for philipinos than those thai lenders who'd have you killed by someone from sri thamarat if you're 1 day late on a 50satang payment.

He IS a loanshark so don't try to make it look good

[gemguy]

Well, there may be more to the story than we may ever know.

However, if the police "smell" money then they will take the time to follow up on a case and try to learn how much money is involved and work the case in a way that the people involved may volunteer to "pay a fine"

They may very well deport him and sometimes they do while making it look like they are doing such a fine outstanding job cleaning up the "crime" related matters flourishing in their realm of influence perpetrated by such sinister foreigners.

You would surmize the police have far more serious matters to attend to........and they do...but not if they can not smell any money.

That and foreigners are always easier marks than Thais.

[cutter007]

Mr Granata held onto borrowers’ passports until the debt was repaid – much like most motorbike rental operators in Patong

Isn't holding onto anothers passport also illegal? Don't all foreingers in Thailand have to carry their passport as ID unless they have some other form of acceptable ID such as a Thai driving license.

Never surrender your passport to anybody for any reason other than being released out of criminal custody on bail or to your own embassy/consulate.

You obviously don't do much business in Thailand. Although it is no where near as bad as it was 10 years ago, I have to give up my passport all the time, whether it's to people at the ports, government offices, banks, embassys etc.

Just last week, I gave it to the Chinese embassy to get a visa................so you might want to amend your advise.

[TAWP]

10% per month is less than standard rates, minor loans in BKK goes for 20% per month. All with papers etc. Ofcourse these are Thai people, so...

[TAWP]

evil farang taking thai jobs again...

sad to see him go, hes probably a lot better for philipinos than those thai lenders who'd have you killed by someone from sri thamarat if you're 1 day late on a 50satang payment.

He IS a loanshark so don't try to make it look good

Oh, absolutely. And as such he was profiting on people in hardship.

[parmo1]

In England you can pay up to 1000% for a payday loan like these.

For me , he was providing a service, but 10% a month is greedy , but that is what MOST lenders charge i would imagine. WHY did they pick on him ? Most Filipino OFWs borrow money. Like most things in Thailand, I think we are not being fed the total truth

Edited January 8, 2012 by parmo1

[chaiyapoon]

Out in the villages 10% a month is common and standard practice.Little old thai ladies charge this all the time against some form of security usually motorcycle or farm papers.Many who want to work abroard take out these loans for tickets etc.At first I thought this dear till I heard about the no security loans at 20 to 25%.Don't pay and you will get a visit from some local thugs.

When you compare against UK payday loans at nearly 3000% seems almost a bargain !

[ydraw]

Mr Granata held onto borrowers’ passports until the debt was repaid – much like most motorbike rental operators in Patong

Isn't holding onto anothers passport also illegal? Don't all foreingers in Thailand have to carry their passport as ID unless they have some other form of acceptable ID such as a Thai driving license.

Never surrender your passport to anybody for any reason other than being released out of criminal custody on bail or to your own embassy/consulate.

You obviously don't do much business in Thailand. Although it is no where near as bad as it was 10 years ago, I have to give up my passport all the time, whether it's to people at the ports, government offices, banks, embassys etc.

Just last week, I gave it to the Chinese embassy to get a visa................so you might want to amend your advise.

Dumbest post of all time. Obviously you have to hand your passport to a consulate if you want to get it stamped. But it's temporary and completely different than giving it to a businessperson to hold as collateral.

It's completely illegal for you to use a passport as collateral. A passport is not your property, it's property of your government. Even the police cannot legally retain your passport. Motorcycle rental companies and lenders are breaking the law by holding your passport regardless of whether the rest of their business is legal or not.