Electricity Meters

[eriksen]

Hey all,

Having lived here in Phuket for some years and meeting people I see some landlords "resell their utilities" this for some borders on criminal behavior most feel.

I have seen some charge other double! wow, what a great business unless your tenants beat you up! lol. Well , it is not funny really. Two of my good friends have their own free standing houses with power (electric) supplied from the developer at excessive rates.. (3600THB - 12000THB)running minimal farang A/C (3 hours day) (all night set to low) but when I stay at friends places who have their own government meter they do the same and pay 800 THB/month... <deleted>???

Then, when they apply for their own meter get all sorts of excuses like.. "no slots on the transformer available" then next application, "can only do single phase (currently 3 phase for obvious reasons if you are an engineer type) (why do Thai's presume you need 3 phase because you have that now? ok, that is another topic lol) so single phase fine but then that offer also vanished... SOMETHING VERY FISHY GOING ON!

so

to all you great people out there with vast years of experiences and contacts... how can they simply get their own meters? Easy you say? what I feel is happening here is tea money, and how to override the pleb in charge.. there must be a way (more tea money fine, they are fed up) This street is only 30% built on so all new houses will have meter needs... it is a crock... sounds funny but I tell you , we are talking a lot of markup (increase) it is ridiculous..

please help if you can... we will bless and praise you every day...

Thanks.

[cloghead]

Wish I could answer you erikson. I've got a problem myself...

I've been on the temporary (construction) rate--about 6.4 baht per kWh--while my house was being built. Now that it's finished the local PEA office says they must remove the original meter and replace it with another (identical) one so they can charge the residential rate--about 3.2 baht per kWh. The new meter's specifications are the same as the old--single-phase, 15/45. They say my deposit on the original meter will be refunded (or credit given, that part wasn't made clear) and the cost of the new meter is 4,621 baht, which must be paid to get on the residential rate.

They insist this must be done but nobody here (Trat) has ever heard of such a thing. A meter (that works just fine) is a meter--isn't it???

Anyone have any info about this???

Edited January 11, 2012 by cloghead

[Pib]

Here in Bangkok my home's monthly electric bill "per KiloWattHour" averages out to 4 baht per KWH with the VAT, acct fee, adjustments, etc., added in. The account is in my Thai wife's name, billed directly to our home address....no middle man. Our December bill was 5,547.44 baht for 1,386KWH which equates to 4 baht/KWH. Of course our monthly usage varies month to month, sometimes to around 2,000 KWH during the summer, but after doing the math, the cost per KWH has always averaged out to very, very close to 4 baht/KWH. Yes, we make good usage of air con's day and night, both downstairs and upstairs.

Now that total cost is based somewhat on how that 1,386KWH total usage fell among the KWH residential rate bands of 1-150KWH, 151-400KWH, and over 400KWH.

On the Dec bill 414.42 baht was in the 1-150KWH band (2.76B/KHW) , 934.05 baht in the 151-400 band (3.74B/KWH), and 3,880.99 baht in the over 400KWH band (3.93B/KWH)....that all adds up to 5,229.46 baht. Add in the 7% VAT of 362.92 baht, an acct fee of 38.22 baht, and a price of energy adjustment (Ft) of a negative 83.16 baht and that all adds up to 5,547.44 baht for 1,386KWH usage or 4 baht/KWH.

At the current electricity tariffs a person who uses a moderate to a lot of electricity could use the rule of thumb of 4 baht per KWH hour which includes tax, fees, etc.; now if you use very little electricity (no air con's) and can stay below 150KW usage per month, a person could use a rule of thumb of 3 baht per KWH. And keep in mind, this assumes your are billed directly from the electric company; not a middleman like your landlord who may add in some profit.

[Crossy]

eriksen is being charged 7.5 Baht per unit, IMHO a little more than 'some profit'

[cloghead]

I'm not inquiring about the various usage/rates. I can figure that out when I receive my bill.

I'm asking about the PEA insisting on changing the original meter for an identical model to qualify for the residential rate...

[Pib]

Wish I could answer you erikson. I've got a problem myself...

I've been on the temporary (construction) rate--about 6.4 baht per kWh--while my house was being built. Now that it's finished the local PEA office says they must remove the original meter and replace it with another (identical) one so they can charge the residential rate--about 3.2 baht per kWh. The new meter's specifications are the same as the old--single-phase, 15/45. They say my deposit on the original meter will be refunded (or credit given, that part wasn't made clear) and the cost of the new meter is 4,621 baht, which must be paid to get on the residential rate.

They insist this must be done but nobody here (Trat) has ever heard of such a thing. A meter (that works just fine) is a meter--isn't it???

Anyone have any info about this???

The Provincial Electric Authority (PEA) web site which gives information on their rates. Link. This link actually takes a person right to their Temporary electric service page where it says it applies to construction, bazaars, fairs, etc. From looking at the tariffs on the web site switching to a normal residential vs a contruction/temporary plan will result in a significantly lower rate/KWH just as you mentioned. I expect this is just an administrative paperwork thing that must be done when a person wants to switch plans.

[cloghead]

Yep, I've looked into the website. I've asked more than a dozen people--Thai and farang--about this situation and all of them say it's totally unnecessary and maybe I'm being scammed.

If it's just a bureaucratic bungle then unfortunately I'm the 1st one this has happened to (here anyway)...

Edited January 11, 2012 by cloghead

[Pib]

I know that in the U.S. electric meters installed at construction sites can be different than the final one installed for your house....maybe it's the same here in Thailand where the temporarily meter "could" be different than the permanent meter installed. Or the temporary meter is in a different location/mounted differently that what the final meter must be. And when I say different I also mean any protective enclosure that may come with the meter, especially for 3 phrase meter which comes in a metal enclosure at least here in Bangkok...but a single phase meter has no protective enclosure.

I realize that cloghead said the meter is the same but maybe the electric company knows the meter "could" be different, just don't want to take a layman's word the meter is the same, needs to comply with some govt rule/regulation on final electric installation (I know that may draw a giggle...electrical rules/regulations in Thailand?!), and/or the electric company wants to recover manpower/equipment costs which "sometimes" occur...even though it may not apply in cloghead's situation. And of course, it could simply be the chance for the electric company to charge a high fee for a simple, easy, and quick administrative change....banks do it,airlines do it, just as many other companies do it...a great chance to make some extra revenue!

[cloghead]

Hi Crossy and Pib

I assume you cleaned up the mess I made with the multi-posts. My browser doesn't want to play nice today lol.

A half hour ago my juice went off so drove out from my property and the PEA was installing the "new, improved" meter--without asking me. It looks 100% identical to the original meter it replaced! It's mounted about 2 centimeters below where the old one was also.

So... I give up. The installer said hello and I then realized he was changing the meters with a LIVE electric supply!!! He had removed the knife switch!!! The mind boggles...

Anyway, he didn't ask for the 4,621 baht. That will happen very shortly I'm sure...

Edited January 11, 2012 by cloghead

[Pib]

Yea, the installation cost may be on your next monthly bill. But maybe you'll get lucky and no installation charge will appear in a separate or monthly billing. Good luck.

[Deke]

I have no solutions but maybe can offer a little bit of explanation.

For Erikson; there are two main obstacles to overcome before you could have your own meter. PEA will allow only one meter per house address. So if your meter feeds a sub-panel off of the landlords main distribution board, there is nothing you can do other than negotiate the rate with your landlord. If you have a separate house address you can get a separate meter but it belongs to the property owner, not to you unless he agrees.

For Cloghead; when you change the type of service (from temporary to permanent), PEA will need to inspect your installation. This is a procedural requirement. In your case, the meter size is the same but often temporary service meters will be of a smaller size than the permanent meter. They have administrative issues with meter numbers, etc. in addition to verifying that your installation meets their standards. In theory they could inspect your entire installation but in practice they only look at what is between the meter and your distribution panel (the conductor size). If you have some kind of unusual installation, such as a three-phase supply to a single-family residence, they may look at your distribution panel to see if everything looks reasonable regarding circuit breaker sizing, distribution of load among the phases and anything that indicates large reactive power requirements. I've never heard of PEA actually inspecting internal wiring/loads but they could if they thought it warranted.

[haveaniceday]

cloghead, I believe that is normal.

We got out new meter yesterday actually, I believe we are going to get about 6000b credited to our account.

Actually, we didn't even have a temp meter, just a switch knife int he box on the street, I could be wrong, but I think it may have cost 2000b a month, coming out of the initial 18,000b money to the PEA.

They said at the time, the meter would be here in a week or two, back then the crew came, I am still not sure what happened, but they had a couple of Changs, and wifie just said, we are to call them to get a meter when we are finished welding, she rang them yesterday, and they were out within hours. I don't think she wanted to push her luck. So as of today, we are now paying for power.

[hanuman2543]

The owner has the right to a meter in his/her name. The rates for 5 or 15amp meter or 3-phase are available in the EGAT Office and afaik everywhere the same. I paid for mine 15amp (upgrade from Isaan standard 5amp) meter, 4000 Bt. 3phase was 9 years ago in Roi-Et 12 000 Bt. If you buy property you should reserve the right to have the meter in your name (even greedy developers will agree at this stage).

Edited January 12, 2012 by hanuman2543

[eriksen]

Hey all, thank's for your time and input. Think we were not to clear, apologies. The issue is a freestanding house with chanotte, owned not rented. When the application (a few times now) goes in for a meter, the first time (after looking at everything and "talking" for hours) the result was "transformer not big enough" so it was pointed out that (current power comes from next door who is on the same transformer) that we are all on the same transformer anyways. Some more looking around and talking for ages, then the answer is, no more slots on the transformer.... (dunno what they look at as there is no meter, as for looking at the house side wiring, that is nothing to do with them, JUST WANT A METER OUTSIDE THE HOUSE!!)

2nd application, another official comes out, looks everywhere again and talks for hours... answer is the house cannot have 3 phase..! who the F wants 3 phase? (I hear it's more expensive anyways and the house does not have large power needs) so FINE, single phase, lets do it... then that "disappeared" ...

3rd time cannot be post here, but similar...

much fishiness odour here... need someone at a higher level to make this happen.

Yes, the average farang user we averaged out is about 3.6 Baht/unit and yes this house is paying about 7/unit and up. First Bill was 8600Baht!

So the gentleman with the 4-5k cost of the new meter count your lucky stars! By the way, if a temp power and normal power is charged at different rates then perhaps they have different meters... yeah I know, they could just change their math.. lol...

Thanks to all.

[Deke]

Hey all, thank's for your time and input. Think we were not to clear, apologies. The issue is a freestanding house with chanotte, owned not rented. When the application (a few times now) goes in for a meter, the first time (after looking at everything and "talking" for hours) the result was "transformer not big enough" so it was pointed out that (current power comes from next door who is on the same transformer) that we are all on the same transformer anyways. Some more looking around and talking for ages, then the answer is, no more slots on the transformer.... (dunno what they look at as there is no meter, as for looking at the house side wiring, that is nothing to do with them, JUST WANT A METER OUTSIDE THE HOUSE!!)

2nd application, another official comes out, looks everywhere again and talks for hours... answer is the house cannot have 3 phase..! who the F wants 3 phase? (I hear it's more expensive anyways and the house does not have large power needs) so FINE, single phase, lets do it... then that "disappeared" ...

3rd time cannot be post here, but similar...

much fishiness odour here... need someone at a higher level to make this happen.

Yes, the average farang user we averaged out is about 3.6 Baht/unit and yes this house is paying about 7/unit and up. First Bill was 8600Baht!

So the gentleman with the 4-5k cost of the new meter count your lucky stars! By the way, if a temp power and normal power is charged at different rates then perhaps they have different meters... yeah I know, they could just change their math.. lol...

Thanks to all.

If you are the owner of the house and the house has its own address, then you should be able to get a meter. I agree that something looks fishy.

[haveaniceday]

My understanding is that the temp meter is actually the same design of meter, just not new, and the calculated rate is doubled. So normally it is best to get it changed over ASAP to kull your bill by half.

Normally, when you get the permanent meter it is a new one, same model and stuff I believe.

We were told, that to get a permanent supply, you need a blue book for the house, well in our case, this is not the case, we still don't have one yet, in order to get the temp supply on, we seemed to need everything to do with the house, like, approved plans, copy of chanote etc.

So there goes that theory, when we applied for the temp supply, wifie also filled out the permanent supply paper work, again, I don't now if this is normal, I some how doubt it and in reading your story, thanking my lucky stars we have a very easy going PEA local office.

After saying that, I have read on here many times, under normal circumstances, that to get more meters you need a blue book, so the easiest way is to build a cubby house for the kids, and get a blue book for it. If the PEA can not supply a 15(45) Single phase meter then my gut feeling is it is pure corruption.

Now, if only they can keep the supply on and control the brown outs

[eriksen]

Here in Bangkok my home's monthly electric bill "per KiloWattHour" averages out to 4 baht per KWH with the VAT, acct fee, adjustments, etc., added in. The account is in my Thai wife's name, billed directly to our home address....no middle man. Our December bill was 5,547.44 baht for 1,386KWH which equates to 4 baht/KWH. Of course our monthly usage varies month to month, sometimes to around 2,000 KWH during the summer, but after doing the math, the cost per KWH has always averaged out to very, very close to 4 baht/KWH. Yes, we make good usage of air con's day and night, both downstairs and upstairs.

Now that total cost is based somewhat on how that 1,386KWH total usage fell among the KWH residential rate bands of 1-150KWH, 151-400KWH, and over 400KWH.

On the Dec bill 414.42 baht was in the 1-150KWH band (2.76B/KHW) , 934.05 baht in the 151-400 band (3.74B/KWH), and 3,880.99 baht in the over 400KWH band (3.93B/KWH)....that all adds up to 5,229.46 baht. Add in the 7% VAT of 362.92 baht, an acct fee of 38.22 baht, and a price of energy adjustment (Ft) of a negative 83.16 baht and that all adds up to 5,547.44 baht for 1,386KWH usage or 4 baht/KWH.

At the current electricity tariffs a person who uses a moderate to a lot of electricity could use the rule of thumb of 4 baht per KWH hour which includes tax, fees, etc.; now if you use very little electricity (no air con's) and can stay below 150KW usage per month, a person could use a rule of thumb of 3 baht per KWH. And keep in mind, this assumes your are billed directly from the electric company; not a middleman like your landlord who may add in some profit.

May? its about double man!

[eriksen]

eriksen is being charged 7.5 Baht per unit, IMHO a little more than 'some profit'

Can say that again..

[eriksen]

Hey all, thank's for your time and input. Think we were not to clear, apologies. The issue is a freestanding house with chanotte, owned not rented. When the application (a few times now) goes in for a meter, the first time (after looking at everything and "talking" for hours) the result was "transformer not big enough" so it was pointed out that (current power comes from next door who is on the same transformer) that we are all on the same transformer anyways. Some more looking around and talking for ages, then the answer is, no more slots on the transformer.... (dunno what they look at as there is no meter, as for looking at the house side wiring, that is nothing to do with them, JUST WANT A METER OUTSIDE THE HOUSE!!)

2nd application, another official comes out, looks everywhere again and talks for hours... answer is the house cannot have 3 phase..! who the F wants 3 phase? (I hear it's more expensive anyways and the house does not have large power needs) so FINE, single phase, lets do it... then that "disappeared" ...

3rd time cannot be post here, but similar...

much fishiness odour here... need someone at a higher level to make this happen.

Yes, the average farang user we averaged out is about 3.6 Baht/unit and yes this house is paying about 7/unit and up. First Bill was 8600Baht!

So the gentleman with the 4-5k cost of the new meter count your lucky stars! By the way, if a temp power and normal power is charged at different rates then perhaps they have different meters... yeah I know, they could just change their math.. lol...

Thanks to all.

If you are the owner of the house and the house has its own address, then you should be able to get a meter. I agree that something looks fishy.

Thanks

[cmsally]

Confirm that if you are building you need temporary meter. You get most of the money back when they come and replace it with your permanent meter. To get the perm. meter you need house number/address. So basically when the house is finished. Perm meter means new deposit which can be got back if you decide you don't want the meter anymore. I guess if you knock the house down!