Visa'S For The Whole Family... Help Guys!

[mike724]

Alright gents, I have spent hours scouring various forums, and researching online, and am having a tough time piecing together how to do this for the family. Let me give you guys some background, and hopefully I can get some guidance.

Nationality: Whole family is American, no Thai relations whatsoever.

We are moving the whole family to Thailand on a permanent basis.

Family is : Myself, wife, and 4 (four) Children ages 16, 13, 11, and 4.

We are moving over to Asia due to my employment in China, but are unable to support a family there due to Costs, so have elected to commute to China from Thailand. I will be in and out of Thailand at least 3 times a month.

My oldest Son will be covered under an ED visa from school. My other 3 Children will be home schooled.

I would appreciate guidance firstly for myself, being in-and-out 3 X a month, what Visa type should I get given our desire to stay for 20+years. (I am willing to do Thai language school, if that helps with some of the dependents)

Now what to do with the wife, I know she can attach to the one oldest Son as a caretaker with the 500K Baht. Now what about the other three home schooled kids?

It is possible that my employer may write a letter for me indicating it's desire to have me in Asia to perform my duties, in persuit of a Non B, but it is a very beauracratic employer, and they aren't required to do it for me, as Thailand is my choice, not company mandated.

So, in summary, we have myself (visa type?), oldest son who will have ED visa, that leaves wife and 3 home schooled kids.

Counting on the Thai Visa forum guru's!!

Fire away on some workable scenarios for us.

[beano2274]

I am certain that only one parent can piggyback your eldest childs ED visa.

You have no change of a Non Immigrant B visa as you do not work in Thailand.

The rest will probably have to have tourist visas and do border runs.

I would personally go to China with my family and live there, might be easier for the

visas

[CharlieH]

Sounds like a job for Mario/Litebeer or Lopburi to me.

[mike724]

I am certain that only one parent can piggyback your eldest childs ED visa.

You have no change of a Non Immigrant B visa as you do not work in Thailand.

The rest will probably have to have tourist visas and do border runs.

I would personally go to China with my family and live there, might be easier for the

visas

Thanks for all that. China just is not an option for a number of reasons.

I realise that a Non-B for me would be unlikely, so what should I use exactly? I was hearing that there are some potential problems with living in Thailand on perpetual tourist Visas. BTW, which tourist visa specifically are we talking about here. Please keep em coming guys, really need the help on this one!

[beano2274]

Does not matter what kind of tourist visas, those on tourist visas would have to leave the country to do border runs going to another Embassy and getting tourist visas again, but be aware that some places will stamp a passport indicating that the person is flaunting the law and using tourist visas to remain in country (this could happen).

Investment Visa if you have enough cash is another one, you could do a Thai Language course online, but you might be asked questions at Immigration if you wanted to extend, and if you were unable to answer basic questions in Thai they might refuse an extension.

The gurus will be online soon.

[Mario2008]

As said, your oldest child can get an ED-visa and your wife can stay as his dependend on that one till he turns 21 (or stops his education if that is sooner) if she can show 500,000 in a bank account in Thailand.

Your other children don't have a reason of their own and you also don't have a valid reason. (Unless you or your wife are 50 years or older) Your only current option would indeed be an ED-visa for yourself, requiring you to study at least 4 hours a week and let your other children stay as a dependent of you. Your wife could also be a dependent of you.

For children and wife to be dependents of you, you must be on an extension of stay.

Once your children turn 21, they can no longer be a dependent of you and need their own reason for staying in Thailand.

A non-B would only be issued for being busines or working in Thailand.

Staying 20 years is a long time on an ED-visa. Not untill you or your wife turn 50 will you have another option for staying in Thailand.

[Lite Beer]

As said, you do not really qualify for anything but Tourist Visas and Visa exempt entries.

Trying to work out a year in advance is tricky let alone 20 years.

Try getting in touch with one of the Thai Language schools that advertise here.

Here is the Police order that deals with Extensions of Stay.

Police Order 2008.pdf

[Gone]

You might also want to consider living in Phnom Phenn Cambodia as it is cheap there, has all the same infrastructures (Schools, shopping, hospitals etc.) as Thailand and you can fly to China from there. Visas are easy as well.

Many of us have lived here in Thailand for a long time and have struggled with visas rules and regulations on pretty much a day to day basis as the laws here change daily. You don't seem old enough for a Retirement visa (50) and seems you have not spent a great deal of time here in the LOS so sad news or not I think you are looking at the most difficult country to stay in here in South East Asia. Maybe try Malaysia or Cambodia for awhile and at least get the feel of living in SEA without the visa hassles.

PS: I'm not sure why Hong Kong is not an option for you? It is not THAT expensive and with the money you would save on visas, flights back and forth and spending time away from your wife and 4 children you would be much better off. It seems like you have the 500k for the Ed visa and I assume you have a decent paying job in China if you're planning the BIG move etc.

[beano2274]

have you thought about Hong Kong, maybe expensive but I would think the visa situation would be a lot easier, and also communication would be easier as they speak English

[Jingthing]

You might also want to consider living in Phnom Phenn Cambodia as it is cheap there, has all the same infrastructures (Schools, shopping, hospitals etc.) as Thailand and you can fly to China from there. Visas are easy as well.

...

Yeah, that was my first thought but I'm happy someone else said it. My initial reaction to the OP was frankly, this idea is not feasible and better to forget it to avoid inevitable pain and failure. (Sorry, my opinion.)

Anyway, about Cambodia. Yes business visas are incredibly easy there but even in Cambodia I wouldn't presume to say it would easy to do an entire family that way for twenty years. If there is interest, I suggest the OP seek out the appropriate venues for advice on that country.

[TerryLH]

OP, you don't need a visa if you'll be coming here three times a month. 30 day visa exempt entries should suit you.

The problem you might have is if you tried coming here without a return flight the airline might not let you board the plane. I assume that would be a non issue as long as you would be returning to China for work.

The three youngest children could come here on any type visa. They wouldn't be charged overstay until they are 14 (?). That would give you some time to sort each of their situations out.

If you really plan on staying here long term, why not consider some combination of home schooling and a regular school?

[steve187]

the way i see it is for the older 2 children to get ed visa's, your wife to piggyback on one of them, the 2 younger ones to enter on a visa and then overstay, no problem up to 14 years, and for you to enter, with a return ticket booked to china, on visa exempt visa's each visit,

Long term i cannot see this working, the children once finished schooling would have no permanant status anywhere, USA would be a distant memory, and with no education from there, difficult to settle there with jobs etc.

China is the future place to be, and finances aside i'm sure thats the place to settle in place of Thailand, where you and yours would never really be welcome, that said from a person that loves it here in Thailand,

Anyway all the best with this quest.

[mike724]

Hi guys! True to form, the responses have been excellent. A few follow up notes, and additional questions. My job is actually in Hong Kong, which is a great town (minus the pollution) Right now my cost for a small place in the mid-levels is running well over $1,000,000 USD (for a shoebox in the sky!) Being American kids used to big house and blue sky, I can't in good conscience cram them into that, we need an alternate option.

Question to the poster on Myself getting an ED visa (to learn Thai, which would be great, love a challenge) and my wife and non ED children covered under me, but only on a "extension of stay". Could you elaborate a bit on this? We do have other reasons for wanting to come to Thailand, so really want to give it the old college try. We have many friends in the Missions community up North, and would love to lend a hand.

All further thoughts welcome!

[Mario2008]

Volunteering would be another reason to stay in Thailand, provided you volunteer for a registered charity and they are willing to support you with a work permit etc.

Edit:

Seems you would even be allowed to let your wife and children stay with you as your dependent.

Volunteering requires at least 4 hours a week.

[Jingthing]

How can he maintain an ED or charity based extension to stay when he plans to be outside Thailand so much for his real work?

[jamescollister]

No expert on visas, but think as a long term option Thailand is out. May be you could defect to Lao. Jim

[Jingthing]

Its an interesting academic question, how to possibly make this situation work visa-wise, but is it really the best tactic to encourage someone to try something like this with such poor prospects?

[Mario2008]

How can he maintain an ED or charity based extension to stay when he plans to be outside Thailand so much for his real work?

It is an average, besides it can also be his wife that goes volunteering instead of the OP himself.

[ludditeman]

Get your wife a volunteer job as a Christian Missionary (or womens groups, etc.)

All the kids can stay as her dependents.

You are flying in and out all the time so Visa on entry or tourist Visas for you.

[mike724]

OP, you don't need a visa if you'll be coming here three times a month. 30 day visa exempt entries should suit you.

If you really plan on staying here long term, why not consider some combination of home schooling and a regular school?

Great advice here, follow up question: Will I not attract unwanted attention with a passport full of ten years of back to back 30 day Visa exempt entries? I have no problem doing it, I just don't want to exploit any Thai laws, and I want to do it right. It would be clear after a few years, that I was living in Thailand on Visa exemptions. Any input/potential pitfalls on this?

[Jingthing]

How can he maintain an ED or charity based extension to stay when he plans to be outside Thailand so much for his real work?

It is an average, besides it can also be his wife that goes volunteering instead of the OP himself.

Oh, OK. I sounds like you think it may be possible for the OP to meet his living in Thailand goals. I stand corrected and best of luck to this family.

[ludditeman]

OP, you don't need a visa if you'll be coming here three times a month. 30 day visa exempt entries should suit you.

If you really plan on staying here long term, why not consider some combination of home schooling and a regular school?

Great advice here, follow up question: Will I not attract unwanted attention with a passport full of ten years of back to back 30 day Visa exempt entries? I have no problem doing it, I just don't want to exploit any Thai laws, and I want to do it right. It would be clear after a few years, that I was living in Thailand on Visa exemptions. Any input/potential pitfalls on this?

It shouldn't be a problem if you have a legit job in China.

The crackdowns on tourist Visas are to stop 'wide boys' abusing the rules.

You don't even need a Visa if you fly in an out every month and can do it forever.

[Jingthing]

OP, you don't need a visa if you'll be coming here three times a month. 30 day visa exempt entries should suit you.

If you really plan on staying here long term, why not consider some combination of home schooling and a regular school?

Great advice here, follow up question: Will I not attract unwanted attention with a passport full of ten years of back to back 30 day Visa exempt entries? I have no problem doing it, I just don't want to exploit any Thai laws, and I want to do it right. It would be clear after a few years, that I was living in Thailand on Visa exemptions. Any input/potential pitfalls on this?

Legally, it is allowed to use the 30 day stamps as much as you like. It is very hard to predict flak decades in advance or rule changes, or policy enforcement changes. There would likely be issues now boarding in HK if you don't have a return ticket exiting Thailand within 30 days. One practical problem, you will need to keep getting new passports because you will run out of pages. There is nobody here who can honestly say a plan to use 30 day stamps for ten years plus is definitely going to work.

[mike724]

Get your wife a volunteer job as a Christian Missionary (or womens groups, etc.)

All the kids can stay as her dependents.

You are flying in and out all the time so Visa on entry or tourist Visas for you.

Definitely open to this option, what kind of Visa would this be for wife and all of us? We have plenty of options in that arena.

[mike724]

OP, you don't need a visa if you'll be coming here three times a month. 30 day visa exempt entries should suit you.

If you really plan on staying here long term, why not consider some combination of home schooling and a regular school?

Great advice here, follow up question: Will I not attract unwanted attention with a passport full of ten years of back to back 30 day Visa exempt entries? I have no problem doing it, I just don't want to exploit any Thai laws, and I want to do it right. It would be clear after a few years, that I was living in Thailand on Visa exemptions. Any input/potential pitfalls on this?

Legally, it is allowed to use the 30 day stamps as much as you like. It is very hard to predict flak decades in advance or rule changes, or policy enforcement changes. There would likely be issues now boarding in HK if you don't have a return ticket exiting Thailand within 30 days. One practical problem, you will need to keep getting new passports because you will run out of pages.

Thanks Jing for all the thoughts! So many things to consider here!

[ludditeman]

Get your wife a volunteer job as a Christian Missionary (or womens groups, etc.)

All the kids can stay as her dependents.

You are flying in and out all the time so Visa on entry or tourist Visas for you.

Definitely open to this option, what kind of Visa would this be for wife and all of us? We have plenty of options in that arena.

Contact one of the groups that do Missionary work, they can do all the paperwork for the family.

Your wife could also take courses like 'Womens studies' run by CMU in English.

[Mike45]

Hi guys! True to form, the responses have been excellent. A few follow up notes, and additional questions. My job is actually in Hong Kong, which is a great town (minus the pollution) Right now my cost for a small place in the mid-levels is running well over $1,000,000 USD (for a shoebox in the sky!) Being American kids used to big house and blue sky, I can't in good conscience cram them into that, we need an alternate option.

Question to the poster on Myself getting an ED visa (to learn Thai, which would be great, love a challenge) and my wife and non ED children covered under me, but only on a "extension of stay". Could you elaborate a bit on this? We do have other reasons for wanting to come to Thailand, so really want to give it the old college try. We have many friends in the Missions community up North, and would love to lend a hand.

All further thoughts welcome!

I had a friend that lived in HK with his family. He was an IT guy and not a manager . They lived on one of the islands and he took a ferry to work like many of the locals. I don't know the area but it is my impression that you have not looked at HK well enough. I think you would better serve your family if you found something like I described. Keeping your family together should be one of your highest priorities.

[mike724]

Hi guys! True to form, the responses have been excellent. A few follow up notes, and additional questions. My job is actually in Hong Kong, which is a great town (minus the pollution) Right now my cost for a small place in the mid-levels is running well over $1,000,000 USD (for a shoebox in the sky!) Being American kids used to big house and blue sky, I can't in good conscience cram them into that, we need an alternate option.

Question to the poster on Myself getting an ED visa (to learn Thai, which would be great, love a challenge) and my wife and non ED children covered under me, but only on a "extension of stay". Could you elaborate a bit on this? We do have other reasons for wanting to come to Thailand, so really want to give it the old college try. We have many friends in the Missions community up North, and would love to lend a hand.

All further thoughts welcome!

I had a friend that lived in HK with his family. He was an IT guy and not a manager . They lived on one of the islands and he took a ferry to work like many of the locals. I don't know the area but it is my impression that you have not looked at HK well enough. I think you would better serve your family if you found something like I described. Keeping your family together should be one of your highest priorities.

Thanks for that, your referencing what are called the "New territories" i.e. South Lantau Island, and areas like clear water bay, and Sai Kung. I am intimately familiar with Hong Kong, the homes out there, are referred to as "Village homes", and have a max 50% loan LTV from the banks, requiring more than US 1Mil as just the DOWN PAYMENT! It really is a lesson in insanity in the HKG real estate market. Thanks for the thoughts there though,

[Mario2008]

Get your wife a volunteer job as a Christian Missionary (or womens groups, etc.)

All the kids can stay as her dependents.

You are flying in and out all the time so Visa on entry or tourist Visas for you.

Definitely open to this option, what kind of Visa would this be for wife and all of us? We have plenty of options in that arena.

You will first need to find an organisation that is willing to accept you as a volunteer. They then send you a letter for the Thai consulate, satting that they are a registred charity, with registration number etc and asking for a visa for you (and your wife and children) in order for you to volunteer for them.

That should give you (and family) a non-O visa, giving you a stay of 90 days in Thailand. Once you arrive in thailand, you apply for a work permit with the help of the charity. Once you have the work permit you apply for an extension of stay from immirgation for 1 year based on your volunteering during the last 30 days of your first 90 days in Thailand At the same time your wife (if she dosn't volunteer herself) and children apply for an extension of stay for 1 year as your dependents.

Note that when you arrive in Thailand, you have to apply for a multiple re-entry permit in order to keep your permission to stay alive when you want to leave Thailand.

[mike724]

Talking to the wife here, and she has indicated a desire to want to finish her elementary teaching degree at Chiang Mai U. This would have great Missions applications, and allow her something to plug into once the kids are grown. So, if she goes on ED Visa, how exactly does that work for the other 3 kids (extension of stay clarification)

We're getting there! Thanks for the help so far guys!