Huge Widening Income Gap

[Heng]

"The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind." -G. Gekko

[Baal]

"The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind."    -G. Gekko

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On that note Im really , really upset with myself for not buying gold in 2001 right before the war when I said "wow I should probably buy some gold".

....with myself...

[Firefan]

He,he - Baal! I share your pain! I HAVE been holding gold and gold mining stocks since before 2001 - but kept saying "I should pick up some more...."... maybe I still should...

Cheers!

[chownah]

In Buddhist thought, greed is one of the hindrances.

[GuestHouse]

There's a lot of envy here.

[greenwanderer108]

I bet if you followed that fine lady from Japan around for a day you would be tired at the end of the day.

Now if Im wrong let me know,  Ill make sure to tell all the Interns  that I know from Europe who are studying Hotel Management to head to Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to my girlfriend, all she does is sit at a desk and talk on the phone to Japanese customers. When she's not doing that, she's eating, in the bathroom, or out at some free social function meeting with customers. Just talking about her schedule makes me tired...

What's your point? This is not about hard work paying off, etc.. It's about a huge income gap and social stratification. Do you think it's possible for any one of the maids/bus boys/clerks in the hotels to climb to a management position of six figure income. The system don't work that way. If a bus boy worked at the hotel 20 years, his salary wouldn't even reach 20k. Follow any laborer around at Klong Toey. If you find yourself tired, does that mean they should be getting six figured salaries?

I've had it wrong from the beginning. I've been living in poverty this whole time? Jesus, thanks for the enlightenment. Since I'm considered poor by many of you, can I get some charity donations or something. Just a measily 200,000 baht will do. After all, it's only peanuts. That way I can buy some food and drink or something and survive for the next month or two...

[mrbojangles]

Since I'm considered poor by many of you, can I get some charity donations or something. Just a measily 200,000 baht will do. After all, it's only peanuts. That way I can buy some food and drink or something and survive for the next month or two...

I was just about to send you the 200,000 baht by Western Union but then i noticed Thai Visa rule#8) "It is not acceptable to solicit for, nor accept donations, gifts, etc for providing advice to visitors and members of the thaivisa.com forums, nor is it permitted to steer, promote or solicit persons to go to locations or businesses in which it is necessary to pay for services or assistance.

And 10) Please do not post links to pages that contain objectionable material. This includes, warez, cracks, pornography, pyramid schemes, referral ID's, ebay listings and requesting donations.

Sorry Greenwanderer, i wouldn't want to break any rules

[OlRedEyes]

"The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind."    -G. Gekko

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Greed dehumanises.

Greed also is solely responsible for the current global attempted suicide of said ex-humans. Greed destroys it's own environment and it's host, a bit like shitting on your own doorstep, just worse.

Admiring greed illustrates a lack of any vision.

Edited December 2, 2005 by OlRedEyes

[GuestHouse]

What's all this greed nonsense?

I only want to earn and save enough now so that I can retire to Thailand in my mid fifties, perhaps do something more personally rewarding with my time and above all else get out of a system in which the chancellor of the exchequer dives into my wallet to rob me of my money so he can give it to people who can't be bothered to w0rk (sorry if that four letter word offends anyone).

The reason some places are poorer than others does have a lot to do with greed, but don't go looking to people who don't live in those places for your culprit.

The greed that keeps poor people in Thailand poor is to be found wearing uniforms, working in local government, the government itself.

Blaming people who have worked overseas, earned overseas and then bring their wealth to spend it in Thailand is utter &lt;deleted&gt;.

[Heng]

"The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind."    -G. Gekko

Greed dehumanises.

Greed also is solely responsible for the current global attempted suicide of said ex-humans. Greed destroys it's own environment and it's host, a bit like shitting on your own doorstep, just worse.

Admiring greed illustrates a lack of any vision.

Hit a nerve eh?

[Heng]

snip

The reason some places are poorer than others does have a lot to do with greed, but don't go looking to people who don't live in those places for your culprit.

The greed that keeps poor people in Thailand poor is to be found wearing uniforms, working in local government, the government itself.

Blaming people who have worked overseas, earned overseas and then bring their wealth to spend it in Thailand is utter &lt;deleted&gt;.

Some people are victimized, a lot of people also hurt themselves though. There are millions out there who have no concept of savings. They often choose to purchase the semblance of luxury, when in fact all that usually does is blockade their path to true wealth (which is relative anyway). Blaming those that can afford luxuries ("oh, they're setting a bad example...") is just plain silly.

[solo siam]

Greed dehumanises.

Greed also is solely responsible for the current global attempted suicide of said ex-humans. Greed destroys it's own environment and it's host, a bit like shitting on your own doorstep, just worse.

Admiring greed illustrates a lack of any vision.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If it wasnt for what you call greed we would all still be living in mudhuts dieing of pointless and curable diseases.

[Baal]

What's your point? This is not about hard work paying off, etc.. It's about a huge income gap and social stratification. Do you think it's possible for any one of the maids/bus boys/clerks in the hotels to climb to a management position of six figure income. The system don't work that way. If a bus boy worked at the hotel 20 years, his salary wouldn't even reach 20k.

If a Busboy works for 20 years as a busboy he doesnt deserve to reach 20k.

Nothing disgust me more than the "self-entitlement" chip so many people carry on their shoulders these days.

Its simple, work your ass off, go to school, get an education, then get a job, continue your education......then go out and buy a DVD player, Mp3 player, TV, go to clubs, have children etc etc.

I know too many people who have worked two jobs to get through school eating Mac and Cheese for dinner 5 nights a week to ever feel sorry for someone boo hooo hoooing about someone who gets "paid more than me".

[solo siam]

Besdies Thailands full of rags-to-riches stories of waiters, cooks, busboys etc... opening up their own business and making it big. Does a person whos worked as a busboy for 20 years deserve to earn 4 times as much as someone whos been a busboy for 2 years, Sure if they do 4 times the work!

[Baal]

Greed dehumanises.

Greed also is solely responsible for the current global attempted suicide of said ex-humans. Greed destroys it's own environment and it's host, a bit like shitting on your own doorstep, just worse.

Admiring greed illustrates a lack of any vision.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Greed is exclusively human.

I think you are confusing "greed" with "ambition", hookers are Greedy, Jay Leno likes really nice cars and worked his ass off playing 2 bit comedy clubs for 20 years before he hit it big and got the Tonight Show gig.

[solo siam]

Greed is exclusively human.

I think you are confusing "greed" with "ambition",  hookers are Greedy,  Jay Leno likes really nice cars and worked his ass off playing 2 bit comedy clubs for 20 years before he hit it big and got the Tonight Show gig.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why do some animals if given the chance and unlimited food, eat themselves to death?

[Baal]

Greed is exclusively human.

I think you are confusing "greed" with "ambition",  hookers are Greedy,  Jay Leno likes really nice cars and worked his ass off playing 2 bit comedy clubs for 20 years before he hit it big and got the Tonight Show gig.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why do some animals if given the chance and unlimited food, eat themselves to death?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont know, why dont you ask one.

I think you are confusing Gluttony with Greed.

[vjoe]

Wow, active thread!

This disparity in pay is everywhere.

I recently read a story in the paper about how much some non-profit CEO gets paid.

One example is "the $785,446 compensation package earned by the head of Portland's Goodwill Industries"

This non-profit employs many disable worker for less than the minimum wage of $5.15 an hour.

Now, this is ridiculous, if you want that kind of money, get out of the non-profit business.

In the high tech industries, it's normal for CEO to get paid 200-400 times the rank and file salary. Personally, my CEO gets paid 560 times more than me and I make comfortable money.

Worst thing is I keep hearing for the past 3 years, oh economy is not that good, here is a 0.5% salary increase.

*rant off*

[Baal]

Wow, active thread!

This disparity in pay is everywhere.

I recently read a story in the paper about how much some non-profit CEO gets paid.

One example is "the $785,446 compensation package earned by the head of Portland's Goodwill Industries"

This non-profit employs many disable worker for less than the minimum wage of $5.15 an hour.

Now, this is ridiculous, if you want that kind of money, get out of the non-profit business.

In the high tech industries, it's normal for CEO to get paid 200-400 times the rank and file salary. Personally, my CEO gets paid 560 times more than me and I make comfortable money.

Worst thing is I keep hearing for the past 3 years, oh economy is not that good, here is a 0.5% salary increase. 

*rant off*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats your problem, you're reading biased politically oriented papers. I can only assume that because any average joe can go to the financial page and clearly see that the economy is booming.

[OlRedEyes]

Hit a nerve eh?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not really.

Greed is exclusively human.

I think you are confusing "greed" with "ambition",  hookers are Greedy,  Jay Leno likes really nice cars and worked his ass off playing 2 bit comedy clubs for 20 years before he hit it big and got the Tonight Show gig.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, it is, isn't it. Unless the other poster is right about animals eating themselves to death. Havn't come accross that one yet

No, it seems you and some others are confusing greed and ambition. Unless the ambition is to have it all, and screw everybody else.

Mankind, if less greedy, could have advanced without destroying everything. Maybe not as far and as quickly... but more sustainably.

It is a moot point though whether it has actually advanced or regressed. Depends on the limits of the picture you look at. A bit like the pretty pics you see on travel programs. The camera never zooms out wide enough to also take in the poverty and dirt surrounding the pretty little island created to draw the tourist.

But then many can't handle the bigger picture. Focus and specialization keeps them 'sane' and happy.

[Baal]

A bit like the pretty pics you see on travel programs. The camera never zooms out wide enough to also take in the poverty and dirt surrounding the pretty little island created to draw the tourist.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cuba?

[think_too_mut]

I bet if you followed that fine lady from Japan around for a day you would be tired at the end of the day.

Now if Im wrong let me know,  Ill make sure to tell all the Interns  that I know from Europe who are studying Hotel Management to head to Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to my girlfriend, all she does is sit at a desk and talk on the phone to Japanese customers. When she's not doing that, she's eating, in the bathroom, or out at some free social function meeting with customers. Just talking about her schedule makes me tired...

Do you think it's possible for any one of the maids/bus boys/clerks in the hotels to climb to a management position of six figure income. The system don't work that way. If a bus boy worked at the hotel 20 years, his salary wouldn't even reach 20k. Follow any laborer around at Klong Toey. If you find yourself tired, does that mean they should be getting six figured salaries?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course it is not possible for the maids/bus boys/clerks in the hotels to do what that well paid lady does.

Can you imagine a maid talking to Japanese hotel chains and tour operators, making millions in one call for the hotel?

It's about how easy it is to replace someone like her. A maid could be (almost) anyone off the street.

Also, the clark position. In a day one could be found to do the job and nobody would even notice.

Remove someone with connections and access to Japanese market and the whole hotel would be corkscrewing down as soon as existing reservations are exhausted.

[solo siam]

Greed is exclusively human.

I think you are confusing "greed" with "ambition",  hookers are Greedy,  Jay Leno likes really nice cars and worked his ass off playing 2 bit comedy clubs for 20 years before he hit it big and got the Tonight Show gig.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why do some animals if given the chance and unlimited food, eat themselves to death?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont know, why dont you ask one.

I think you are confusing Gluttony with Greed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right, I'll go ask one, they will probably look it up in "The Animal Dictionary" where it will be listed as "Someone who keeps wanting more than they currently need, except (of course) for food".

I think you are of the belief that the word Gluttony takes the place of Greed always when referring to food, which is not the case.

Edited December 3, 2005 by Ben@H3-Digital

[Baal]

Greed is exclusively human.

I think you are confusing "greed" with "ambition",  hookers are Greedy,  Jay Leno likes really nice cars and worked his ass off playing 2 bit comedy clubs for 20 years before he hit it big and got the Tonight Show gig.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why do some animals if given the chance and unlimited food, eat themselves to death?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont know, why dont you ask one.

I think you are confusing Gluttony with Greed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right, I'll go ask one, they will probably look it up in "The Animal Dictionary" where it will be listed as "Someone who keeps wanting more than they currently need, except (of course) for food".

I think you are of the belief that the word Gluttony takes the place of Greed always when referring to food, which is not the case.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah, I only said that because the definition of gluttony is,

glut·ton·y (glŭt'n-ē)

n., pl. -ies.

Excess in eating or drinking.

and because Greed is defined as,

greed (grēd)

n.

An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth: “Many . . . attach to competition the stigma of selfish greed” (Henry Fawcett).

Since you seem to dig the animal analogy perhaps you would be better served with as story about nuts, and how Squirrels will stash more than they need to make it through the winter!

I had Goldfish as a kid and they would eat till their eyes popped out if you kept feeding them. Considering they have a short term memory of 3 seconds I find it hard to believe they do that because of Greed.

[Patex]

...I had Goldfish as a kid and they would eat till their eyes popped out if you kept feeding them.  Considering they have a short term memory of 3 seconds I find it hard to believe they do that because of Greed.

Maybe they think after 3 sec: Oh, food! Why not eat something, can't remember when I had my last meal...

[Heng]

Jay Leno likes really nice cars and worked his ass off playing 2 bit comedy clubs for 20 years before he hit it big and got the Tonight Show gig.

Good example. There's no reason why the OP couldn't do the same if he isn't happy with his income. The world is full of opportunity. Seen plenty without the benefit of a western education go well beyond the numbers thrown about here. Incidentally, not that anyone ever listens, most will tell you (myself included) that after a certain point, the actual numbers involved don't matter. You can't take it with you and giving your kids too much of a head start will only make them soft. It's the challenges of life/life is sweet asymptote (or whatever you want to call it). I think if you make a conscious effort to amass after this point (it's a different point for everyone), then THAT'S greed. That's not to say that allowing it to amass on its own or not giving it all away is wrong either though.

[greenwanderer108]

Jay Leno likes really nice cars and worked his ass off playing 2 bit comedy clubs for 20 years before he hit it big and got the Tonight Show gig.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good example. There's no reason why the OP couldn't do the same if he isn't happy with his income. The world is full of opportunity. Seen plenty without the benefit of a western education go well beyond the numbers thrown about here. Incidentally, not that anyone ever listens, most will tell you (myself included) that after a certain point, the actual numbers involved don't matter. You can't take it with you and giving your kids too much of a head start will only make them soft. It's the challenges of life/life is sweet asymptote (or whatever you want to call it). I think if you make a conscious effort to amass after this point (it's a different point for everyone), then THAT'S greed. That's not to say that allowing it to amass on its own or not giving it all away is wrong either though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the end, even with my impoverished income of 32000 a month I'm still in the top richest 13 percent of the world...I own most of my possessions and am not in debt to any banks, credit agencies, or any financial institutions. But like you are suggesting, all this is materialism and irrelevent when I die. I'm just concerned about the condition we're leaving this planet for future generations, particularly my offspring (selfishness and greed being the drive )

While some of us try to justify hi-end wealth, i.e. hard work, social ladders, fair game, I think we tend to forget a fundamental principal...That is it is not possible for one person to be rich without thousands of others becoming poor. In other words, in order to win, someone else must lose. Money doesn't grow off of trees. We all know this, it just seems we forget or write it off when we are on the advantage end.

Some of the comments I'm reading here are coming off quite ethnocentric. I hope people aren't that ignorant to believe that this world, particularly free market capitalism provides equal opportunity for everyone just because some rare exploited examples. If you honestly believe such nonsense, perhaps you should take a sociology course, or atleast look up 'Social stratification'.

I'm not trying to say that I'm at the bottom of any food chains, in fact I realize compared to most of the world, I am much better off as far as 'opportunity' and 'social mobility'. But all these 'rags to riches' examples are outdated and irrelevent to the point....Widening income gaps where the rich are getting richer and powerful and the poor getting poorer and more vulnerable.

This is the nature that will ultimately bring humans to destroy ourselves or host, whichever comes first. Just take a look at the current havoc wer're in, i.e. overpopulation, depleting resources. Moreso for my offspring is what worries me.

What goes up, must come down...bla bla bla dee da da da

[Baal]

...I had Goldfish as a kid and they would eat till their eyes popped out if you kept feeding them.  Considering they have a short term memory of 3 seconds I find it hard to believe they do that because of Greed.

Maybe they think after 3 sec: Oh, food! Why not eat something, can't remember when I had my last meal...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL, thats probably exactly why!

I still wonder how scientist figure out that kind of stuff??

Fishbowl Maze?

[Heng]

In the end, even with my impoverished income of 32000 a month    I'm still in the top richest 13 percent of the world...

snip

I'm just concerned about the condition we're leaving this planet for future generations, particularly my offspring (selfishness and greed being the drive )

If you feel your income is too high and you're ruining the planet for future generations, there is plenty of work in the world where you can work for free. There are also countness charities that you can donate to if indeed your problem isn't jealousy but actually are just unsure of where to direct your altruism.

[solo siam]

Since you seem to dig the animal analogy perhaps you would be better served with as story about nuts, and how Squirrels  will stash more than they need to make it through the winter!

I had Goldfish as a kid and they would eat till their eyes popped out if you kept feeding them.  Considering they have a short term memory of 3 seconds I find it hard to believe they do that because of Greed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But surely a goldfish is still able to feel pain, and that 3 seconds memory is the 3 seconds that are currently happening, not in little 3 second bouts where it suddenly forgets everything that happened in teh last 3 seconds, when the next 3 seconds start.

back to the OP, there has always been a wide gap between the haves and have nots, just look at some of the banquets that where held in the huge castles whilst others lived in one room mud-huts, and starved to death.

The guy who earns 32k a month, how would you go back home in the case of an emergency?, how are you saving for your retirement? What happens if you or your family get seriously ill?