About Marriage

[francois]

hi' all HNY

well, we have been to city-hall this morning with my wife, and we asked about marriage papers, for my luck a french guy was there, so I had direct explanations.

So, to get married (for french people), we have to go through Ambassy to apply for marriage, to do so, we need to show some papers like a born paper, a single or divorve certificate, and the most "disturbing", a statement of your income, based on european standard, which, useless to say, is quite impossible to reach here ... if you can comply and produce all the papers required, you can apply and then they send the papers to France, they are "published" as "official' marriage annoucement in your home city-hall, within a month, everything is back, and then you have all the papers required by the Thai city-hall to get married, then, you have to transmit or deliver yourself, your Thai marriage certificate to the ambassy, and a few weeks later they deliver you all the french marriage papers, including the familly book.

it looks like, that there is no other way.

so, back to get another way to be able to be back with my wife and daughter ...

we talked about this with IT, and I thought it was going to be simple ... no no

could it be possible that, asking for a private visit to my mother, saying that

I want my mother to see my kid, (as she's getting lod[84]), would they give a visa to the mother (my wife)?

I intend to put my daughter's name on my passport, and may be get a letter from her mum saying that I am allowed to go with my daughter without her mum being present.

also, is there a law about this, has it to be official, lawyer and stuff?

anyone have answer to all this?

I'm going back to france for a couple of weeks on saturday, I'll be back early

february, and at that time, we will have to find a solution that works !

so .. help

francois

[pepe]

Bien sûr qu'ils donneront un visa de visite privée à ta femme: Elle est ta femme et la mère d'un ressortissant français (si tu as fait faire un passeport français à ton enfant). Ma copine a sans problème obtenu un tel visa.

Pour ce que j'en sais, les enfants ne sont plus portés sur le passeport d'un des parents mais obtiennent leur propre passeport (c'est le cas de mon fils).

My sincere apologies to the mainly english speaking members.

[singa-traz]

Call the French Embassy: http://www.ambafrance-th.org/dsp_page.cfm?...page&select=182

Never heard about income requirement to get married ...

Are you legally married ? (Registered)

[pepe]

As French is not a trendy language on this forum, I advise you to send me an e-mail.

I can't help you about marriage (as I'm not married) but I think that I can give a few good tips about the visa (My girlfriend easily got one last year)

[lopburi3]

Are you legally married ? (Registered)

That appears to be what he is in the process of trying to do unless I am reading wrong again.

Never heard about income requirement to get married

Have you been married in Thailand? If so am quite sure you had to fill out paperwork with your Embassy attesting to your income that was then translated and registered at the Foreign Ministry.

[singa-traz]

Have you been married in Thailand? If so am quite sure you had to fill out paperwork with your Embassy attesting to your income that was then translated and registered at the Foreign Ministry.

Married, but not in Bangkok.

What I meant was 'could you get disqualified ... because of lake of income ?"

Francois, pls clarify !

A lot of paperwork, but once done, the Visa for your wife is easy !

[Sassie]

I'm new at most of this save for reading too much stuff (like cramming for an exam), but if i am a farang girl wanting to marry a Thai, do all the financial requirements apply to myself too? Will I need to be working in Thailand and/or would my Canadian income and account suffice? I understand that I would be visiting my embassy for the proper papers (she is single etc.) but beyond that...hmmm, I am not certain, considering he is supporting me.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Guess that would go for insight into visa requirements etc. I read alot but to receive information from those who have experienced such situations makes it easier to catch a grasp of what really goes on and what is required.

Thanks to anyone for their comments, and information etc.

Sassie

[lopburi3]

do all the financial requirements apply to myself too?

There are no set requirements that I am aware of (by the Thai side - your Embassy may have other ideas). What there is are questions about your employment/income/references. This information is then recorded in official paperwork and the district office reads it and determines if you are fit to marry. As long as the paperwork is done don't believe they refuse to marry many but they may share the information with the intended and let them decide.

[francois]

That appears to be what he is in the process of trying to do unless I am reading wrong again.

right, and this is the problem, how to show income that could be a guaranty in your country when you actualy don't live in?

this is what we call to be " not politicaly correct" ....

What I meant was 'could you get disqualified ... because of lake of income ?"

Francois, pls clarify !

exactly what I just said ...

we have to bring a proof of income that is far above what I can show ...

so, have to try another way ...

pepe, thanks for nice reply .. I PM you now

sorry guys .. has to be in french to be real clear

thanks anyway ...

francois

more ideas welcome

[singa-traz]

What I meant was 'could you get disqualified ... because of lake of income ?"

Francois, pls clarify !

exactly what I just said ...

we have to bring a proof of income that is far above what I can show ...

so, have to try another way ...

Is it a Thai or French requirement this income statement ?

[francois]

Is it a Thai or French requirement this income statement ?

this is from the french side ... and it does concern me

they are asking me, a paper, taxes-clearance, salary papers or else that certify that I have an income, and it has to be of at least thrree last months ...

no pension is valid for this purpose, except if you are retired.

but, it sems that if my dauhter has her french passport, then they "would" give a visa to my "wife" so she can go with us, which seems pretty logical ...

but, as I know the french consulate a bit, logical or human are not very present in there ...

so, my last worry is, how can I get a passport for my daughter?

did anyone do this before?

I mean, going to your ambassy and declare your kid as born in thailand but as your are the father he\she can be bi-national ... is this all true?

and how to do it? .. simply go to ambassy with birth certificate and ask for it?

it looks pretty " may loo luang .." but, papers had never been very friendly to me..

thanks for help

francois

[Pi Sua]

Bonjour; Hi

I'm also French.

François,

The French ministry of foreign affair has been sued in "Conseil d'état" by A French living in Chiang Mai. As the 'Conseil d'état" refused to juged the case, it is actually in the European Court of the Human Right. They have juged the case acceptable but it'll take long for the final decision and also concerning the amount of money that France will have to pay to the "victim"

As the French Embassy refused my weding, I have also sued in "Conseil d'état".

The Foreign Ministry Affair asked to reject the case. I gave my reply and I think they can't afford to refused a second time because they are going against the French and international laws. I did write it clearly in my "memoire". I can send you the all document exchanged with the Conseil d'état.

There is also an article in the French Magasine published in Thailand "Le gavroche" in september 2003 or maybe october about this possibility.

For French people, there is a law from 1939 which gives the power to a consul or an ambassador to marry a French man to a foreign woman (Not the opposite because in 1949, the french woman who marry to a foreigner lost a civil rights) in ten countries in the world including Laos, Cambodia and Thailand.

My GF is Burmese but even if she was Thai as it is for the French man living in Chiangmai.

In this embassy, they don't want to apply this law even if it was reaffirmed valid by the foreign ministry affair at the national assembly in paris last year. But what they say and what they do is different.

In Laos, they accept to apply....but not in this Embassy....why.?...I have sued them for power abuse and raciale discrimination and asked 200,000 Euros as indemnities because it has longed for the last four years. For years of lies, before they said they could only marry two french citizens, after the Chiangmai man's case, they said to me "only under special circonstances"....just bullshit ! The law is the law and they have to apply it.

Don't forget the most important thing: if you succed to marry at the embassy, this wedding won't have any value for the Thai authorities but it is very good because your Thaie girl friend won't lose any of her rights.

The French have no right to ask you the amount of money you earn to marry you. Read the constitution and the laws concerning the wedding to understand quickly that they are cheating us.

All the documents the French embassy gives to you about the wedding are illegal and they stilll carry on. It's absolutly unacceptable.

You can contact me personnaly even the guy in Chiang Mai who is retired from the French administration. I can give you his phone number by e-mail.

I promised, they've lost already twice against us and the game is not over and we don't thing we are going to loose against something that is written in our constitution, our laws and in the international conventions.

I recommend to write a letter to the embassador asking him to marry you under the French law and if he refuse, to send the case immediatly to the "Conseil d'état".

Please, forget the spelling and grammar mistakes, I've written it quickly with passion.

Bruno

[Pi Sua]

About your daughter passeport, you need a Thai birth certificate and you must recognise her at the French embassy. Then she'll automatically get the French citizenship.

For the bi-nationality, I'm not sure....it seems to be not so simple. Before it was only wether the father was Thai that the child would be Thai. When it was only the mother, it was not possible. I've heard that it has changed...and also different information from different sources but I don't think you can rely on the information of the French Embassy.

For our case, as the Thais refuse to marry us, the French embassy has lied to the conseil d'état saying they have been waiting the answer from the Thais authorities to know wether it was true or not. After few month, it appeared, following the sayings of the French Embassy that the Thai had not given a response yet

Could you believe it ? I of course NOT ! As I reply to the Conseil d'état: They are here to know and to inform us. If they don't know wether it's true or not seems to be totally unreal and irresponsible.

I can sent you the letter they adressed to the Conseil d'état saying that and in which they asked them to discharged the case for "out of the Conseil d'état's competency".

Following this article from

Article 12 - Droit au mariage

A partir de l'âge nubile, l'homme et la femme ont le droit de se marier et de fonder une famille, selon les lois nationales régissant l'exercice de ce droit.

This in French concerning the wedding celebrated by a consul or an ambassador:

le décret du 26 Octobre 1939 s’applique même lorsque le pays concerné n’est pas partie à la convention de La Haye du 14 mars 1978. Ceci est la réponse donnée par Monsieur le Ministre des Affaires Etrangères au Sénateur Hubert Durant-Chastel en séance publique du 10 octobre 2002.

BAck to your daughter; something is sure 100%, if you are the father, your daugther is already French by blood. By the law, Is french the one who was born in France or if one of the two parents is French.

To get her an ID card, you need a registration in that embassy but not to get a passeport nor to be resident to get a passeport as they pretend.

After you recognize her, they can't refuse to give her a passeport or if you are in a hurry they can't refuse to give a pass to France only. You can ask that she'll be put her in your passeport as well anytime you want unless you haven't recognise her.

If they do not, we can help you to show you the way to alert the "conseil d'état" to get in within 48 hours.

And as the case is really serious once again, I'll personnally inform the senators of the French living abroad as I usually do when they do like that and can also inform the "mediateur des enfants" about this new case.

These people, refused my sun's ID card for almost three years even he is French, even he has a thai and a French birth certificate, even he was registered in my French family book.

I won it last year and this embassy still refused to give to him. I informed the senators, they lied to them, I informed "the mediateur des enfants", they lied to her saying it had already been done, I informed the Conseil d'état by the legal way, they just execute it immediatly.

When I got to the French Ambassy last month to get my son ID card, talking about the wedding....they just add....ah yes....you've found an old law....but it will changed....brave people I thought ! I just said thenm....it's good, you'll inculde the Myanmar inside...no anwzer....they just expected me to have some adrenaline coming up...it didn't work.

Whatever, I don't think they take this law out.....in fact....it's not so old....and the cambodia and Laos have been included in 1956.

The behaviour is absolutly against all the logical thing but I really do thing they do not have any logical.

For your wife, as she is the mother of a European child, I mean the European community, she's granted to get a visa in any country belong this union and this for all her life. I don not mean a life visa but she can get there anytime she want.

I hope it's not to confuse and once again, sorry for the mistakes.

By the way Dr Pat pong, as I'm sure you'll read this, the french Embassy hasn't removed the dangerous information they have spread yet. They do some private local policies which are totaly under their control and as long as the French don't make a move to stop them, they'll carry on. As you can see, we do have a real problem with them.

Don't have any hesitation contacting me.

Bruno

[Pi Sua]

Pour ce que j'en sais, les enfants ne sont plus portés sur le passeport d'un des parents mais obtiennent leur propre passeport (c'est le cas de mon fils).

My sincere apologies to the mainly english speaking members.

You can still have you child on your passeport with a 10 year validity but he or she (or they) have to move as you move. It can be a real problem.

As you say, they can get their own passport and the validity is only 5 years....than can easily be understand.

Every French children (I don't know for the other) who where born in Thailand but who don't have the Thai citizenship are exempt of carriyng a visa untill the age of eight. That was the reply by registred letter from the ex French Embassador.....is it right.... ?

[francois]

If they do not, we can help you to show you the way to alert the "conseil d'état" to get in within 48 hours.

bonjour'

merci pour tout ca ... c'est encore mieux que ce que je pensais ... on peut donc les obliger a appliquer la loi! good !

sorry a little french for Bruno ...

SO, I'll ask to the french ambassy to marry us ... and if they refuse, well, we'll see.

anyway, we are going to recognize our daughter, she will get a french passport and then we will ask a visa for her mother, and with all this we can go to france, and overthere, we can marry in the city-hall of my village, easily

then, make all the official papers, for my 2 ladies

I doubt that the ambassy would say yes to marry us ...

I've been there quite a few time, and I was wondering ..

are they here for us, or just to get a "good" salary in the sun?

as you might have seen, they are far to be helpful ... just the minimum they have to do for you ... and even if you are registered as resident here, I saw a french guy registered, having a kinda headhache with them ...

everybody already talk about "the french exeption" ..never more true than here!

we have to deal with so real Sh### rules and laws ...

anyway, thanks for help

francois

reponse par mail tout bientot

[Pi Sua]

If you ask them to marry you, do it through a registered letter (EMS).

I can send you the one I sent them. There are always small things that you have to write that can help you to accelerate the process and show them that you're not going to accept any bullshit for answer.

To counter me and the other and justify their "sacrilege against the sacred wedding", they have used an article (134-4) that is an intern article of the foreign ministry affair, just a working sheet.

So I've asked the Conseil d'état to register it as a "production of fake in writing" because it is not belong any codes nor named, nor dated and of course, it"s not in the "Journal Officiel". No any legal existence.