Uk Holiday Visa

[gbswales]

I want to bring my Thai friend to the UK on a totally sponsored holiday. What concerns me is how to prove he will intend to return after the visit - the logistics are simple I spent holiday with him in Thailand but due to work can only make one three week visit in a year - on the other hand sponsoring him to come to Uk for a few months will cost me no more than the holiday to thailand and will broaden his experience. I cant see how he could remain in UK as he is clearly not allowed to work or have means to support himself.

Its possible at some later stage we might apply for same sex fiance visit but this is purely a holiday for him at this stage. He lives at home and works just part time to support himself while studying english at AUA. However he will have to leave the part time job he has to come here and will resume his AUA studies when he returns (but unortunately AUA will not acccept advance registration - only on 4 week term cash basis)

We will only have known each other on line for about a year and have only spent 3 weeks together in Thailand. Obviously he would have a pre-paid return ticket, I have a sufficient income/accommodation to sponsor him 100% and I can get him a reference from a UK business man in thailand but if anyone with experience can contact me with advice or suggestions it would help as it will be very difficult for me to get to thailand again next year if he cannot come here

[the scouser]

You are evidently aware of a visa officer's thought process, so I would write in your covering letter what you've written here. That would display to the visa officer that you've fully considered the circumstances of your friend's application, and that you have a notion of how it is intended your relationship will progress.

Of course, this, in itself, is not guaranteed to get your friend his visa, as his situation in Thailand will be the overriding factor when considering whether to grant the visa. However, it would at least demonstrate to the visa officer that a degree of thought has gone in to the application and it's not being made frivolously.

Your friend should also support his application with evidence of his financial standing and details of any property he owns in Thailand. He should additionally supply evidence of the contact between the 2 of you and proof of your ability to sponsor the visit.

Scouse.

[gbswales]

Thanks for first reply - really quick

That summarises precisely the problems I am anticipating - he is from a poor background, though has worked hard himself to gain a moderate understanding of English. However he only has part-time catering work as he needs 2-3 days off each week for english lessons. As for financial standing he will only have what I can provide him with and that is going to look obvious to the embassy. He is only 19 and so a long way from owning property etc -

He really does intend to return but I just cant see how we can prove this to some hard faced embassy official - I find it difficult to believe that I cannot bring a friend here for a visit at my expense - if he had all the things that are suggested then he would not need this sponsorship from me.

It has been suggested that education is the best route and i could sponsor him to take a 4 week english language course at my university but would still want him to stay for a few months either side of the course - does anyone know if he could, for example apply for an education visa but arrive a month or two before the course begins and stay for a month or two after?

come on guys I really could use some advice from people who have successfully brought thai boyfriends / girlfriends over here for fully sponsored visit first.

[the scouser]

If he were to apply for a student visa, the same difficulties would exist. As a prospective student, an applicant must satisfy the visa officer, inter alia, that he/she intends to leave the United Kingdom at the end of their studies, and your friend's circumstances don't indicate that to be the case, especially if it became apparent to the visa officer that the two of you are romantically involved.

I'd stick with a visit application, get the reference from the businessman, and hope that your friend is convincing at the interview.

By the way, as your friend is 19, he will need his parents' permission to obtain a passport.

Best of luck,

Scouse.

[silomfan]

Thanks for first reply - really quick 

That summarises precisely the problems I am anticipating - he is from a poor background, though has worked hard himself to gain a moderate understanding of English.  However he only has part-time catering work as he needs 2-3 days off each week for english lessons. As for financial standing he will only have what I can provide him with and that is going to look obvious to the embassy.  He is only 19 and so a long way from owning property etc -

He really does intend to return but I just cant see how we can prove this to some hard faced embassy official - I find it difficult to believe that I cannot bring a friend here for a visit at my expense - if he had all the things that are suggested then he would not need this sponsorship from me. 

It has been suggested that education is the best route and i could sponsor him to take a 4 week english language course at my university but would still want him to stay for a few months either side of the course - does anyone know if he could, for example apply for an education visa but arrive a month or two before the course begins and stay for a month or two after?

come on guys I really could use some advice from people who have successfully brought thai boyfriends / girlfriends over here for fully sponsored visit first.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello,

I have been in your position with 2 different Thais over the last 12 years. Your problems are almost identical to what mine were. The Scouser has, as usual, given you fantastic advise. I did manage to get multiple visas for both of them , but it was not easy . I am often accused on this forum of being too pessimistic ...realistic i call it. If you want a more detailed reply and advise you , and anyone else in this position, can e-mail me on

[email protected]

and i will try to help.

By the way ..don't say "...some hard faced embassy official..." in your posts .. you will upset GU22 who is this Forum's representative of the British Embassy ECO's supporters club. Just kidding GU22 .....!!

SILOMFAN

[gbswales]

Thanks again scouse - I can see its not going to be easy bringing a friend into my own country I just wonder what embassy official is going to believe that I would sponsor him 100% and not be romantically involved! We issue visitor visas for limited stays with restricted conditions - i dont see what the problem is - if he overstays then they find him an send him packing -he knows no one else in this country so where would he go anyway without me. I dont see why the governemnt should object to someone bringing a boyfriend (or girlfriend) over for a visit to see how you get on - that is surely the responsible way rather than use the fiancee / civil partnership route on a first visit. Of course our large 39 year age difference is likely to be another barrier I imagine. It would be so much easier if I could live there but anything more than a 3 or 4 week visit once or twice a year is out of the question as I work full time a good job here and have a medical condition which could not be insured for private medical care other than for holidays - bringing him here is our only long term hope

Yes we know about he passport that is not a problem as his parents have even said I can stay there with him. Anyway he will be 20 next year.

thanks again

If he were to apply for a student visa, the same difficulties would exist. As a prospective student, an applicant must satisfy the visa officer, inter alia, that he/she intends to leave the United Kingdom at the end of their studies, and your friend's circumstances don't indicate that to be the case, especially if it became apparent to the visa officer that the two of you are romantically involved.

I'd stick with a visit application, get the reference from the businessman, and hope that your friend is convincing at the interview.

By the way, as your friend is 19, he will need his parents' permission to obtain a passport.

Best of luck,

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[GU22]

Thanks again scouse - I can see its not going to be easy bringing a friend into my own country    I just wonder what embassy official is going to believe that I would sponsor him 100% and not be romantically involved!

It is not your intentions and sincerity that is uppermost in the ECOs mind, but his. It is not unknown for visa nationals to con people into sponsoring them, only to disappear once here. Similarly, sponsors have been known to con applicants and once in the UK sell them to a brothel! (Not that I am suggesting in any way that either is the case here.) So it is important to show that the relationship is genuine and lasting.

i dont see what the problem is - if he overstays then they find him an send him packing -he knows no one else in this country so where would he go anyway without me.

I'm sure this is so in you're case, but sometimes it isn't, despite what the sponsor may believe.

I dont see why the governemnt should object to someone bringing a boyfriend (or girlfriend) over for a visit to see how you get on - that is surely the responsible way rather than use the fiancee / civil partnership route on a first visit.

The British government have no objections to this. Unfortunately, the activities of criminals mean that genuine couples now have to go to greater lengths to prove that they are genuine and trustworthy.

Follow Scouse's advice, and forget about pseudo student visas, and that will give you the best chance of success.

Added in edit:-

BTW, it is not just the UK authorities that have these concerns. When I first knew my wife, before we were married, I took here on a visit to my brother who lives in the Philippines (Thais dont need a visa for the Philippines). We had a tough time at passport control leaving Thailand, and I had to convince them that I was not taking her to the Philippines to sell her into sex slavery. Our passport numbers were recorded and it was made abundantly clear what would happen to me if I were to return to Thailand without her.

Edited December 8, 2005 by GU22

[gbswales]

I'm sure this is so in you're case, but sometimes it isn't, despite what the sponsor may believeThe British government have no objections to this. Unfortunately, the activities of criminals mean that genuine couples now have to go to greater lengths to prove that they are genuine and trustworthy.

Follow Scouse's advice, and forget about pseudo student visas, and that will give you the best chance of success.

I seem to get conflicting advice about this - some say we should say we are boyfriends to prove our relationship is real others tell me that we should not say this as it will prejudice (presumably for the reasons you mention) Also it was not my idea to use student visa as some kind of deception - I genuinely want him to take some english classes (he does too) but he cannot do this on a visitor visa - the purpose of the trip is to improve english for him and see how we get on.

I really believe, and so do my ex-pat friends there, that this is all genuine - but apart from unprovable things like "family love" and "respecting our rules" and "lack of opportunity here for him to work" there isnt one good reason we can think of why he would "want" to return to Thailand! He wil return I am sure but we will then work towards applying for partnership/settlement visa in the long term. Assuming this is what we both still want after the visit.

How can he prove to embassy that he intends to return - he is looking for a job now but can only work part-time as he studies english 2-3 days a week there - anyway he would lose any job he got to come here for several months - if anyone wants to wrtite me privately its [email protected]

Added in edit:-

BTW, it is not just the UK authorities that have these concerns. When I first knew my wife, before we were married, I took here on a visit to my brother who lives in the Philippines (Thais dont need a visa for the Philippines). We had a tough time at passport control leaving Thailand, and I had to convince them that I was not taking her to the Philippines to sell her into sex slavery. Our passport numbers were recorded and it was made abundantly clear what would happen to me if I were to return to Thailand without her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had not even considered exit problems there? He would be travelling alone and I would be meeting him at Heathrow - I am visiting in Feb or March to go to embassy with him but cant buy ticket until he has visa and then will need to buy his ticket a month or two in advance to get a sensible price. I have adequate income to sponsor his vist but am not rich enough to be reckless and pay £1000 for a ticket! Again any thoughts on how to arrange this welcomed.

My last concern is about the large age gap - almost 40 years - he, his family and our friends there are comfortable with it - he is a very old fashioned boy mature and serious and I am young at heart. We know ourselves that this is a genuine relationship but proving it is another matter - we have one UK business man in Pattaya who knows us and will supply reference but that is about it

ANY advice genuinely appreciated [email protected]

[colmx]

Hi gbswales

I went through a similar process to the one you are going through trying to get my Thai BF a visa to visit Ireland (Republic)

Mine was 19 when we started to try to get the visa... he is 21 now....

It eventually took 1.5 years to get, but was well worth it...

First things first...

Does your BF have a passport?

Where does he live?

As the Scouser points out, he is only 19 so will need parental permission to get a passport... If he is from upcountry this will mean one of his parents going to Bang Na with him to authorise the Passport application.

This could be troublesome if they are Issan folk and don't fancy a trip to Bangkok.

Secondly:

The Army!

One thing all the str8 guys here don't have to deal with in relation to their GFs is the national draft.

All Thai males must report for the Army Draft lottery in april of the year they turn 20.

When will your BF turn 20?

Soon?

If so, He may have to attend the army lottery in Early April next year.

Attendance is mandatory....

Then depending on the outcome of the lottery, backhanders and volunteeers, he has a 1 in 4 chance of having to spend the next 1-2 years doing compulsary National Service.

If he doesn't get drafted he will receive a red piece of paper from the army entitling him to travel abroad... without this paper he may find it difficult to leave thailand and go anywhere but Asean countries

Even if Thai immigration will let him out without the Army release form, The ECO may just consider that your BF is going to UK to dodge the draft and will then claim asylum (as a gay draft dodger)once he gets to the UK...

Sorry of this seems a bit negative... Its just that ur bf is at a difficult age!

So i suggest you check out the PAssport and army draft situation first...

Any questions you can mail me on [email protected]

Or post here...

[the gent]

I'm sorry but try as I might I cannot ignore this thread which is like a festering sore.

The OP has no chance whatsoever of sponsoring a successful application by that poor wretch. And, despite the blithe advice so far elicited, that cannot be such a bad thing in any civilized book.

In these dreadful times when it seems no one has a moral compass that points anywhere but to perdition, I still find it surprising that people can be so utterly shallow and baseless.

The OP, a 60 year old British homosexual, contracts a relationship with a 19 year old Thai boy after a casual holiday encounter possibly mediated through a well know sexual predator active within Pattaya. On the basis of this, the OP in his sanctimonious arrogance, thinks it appropriate that the Be visa section should willy nilly issue an entry clearance simply because they should.

In his post, the OP states that the object of his lust is an old fashioned lad, mature for his years whose family is comfortable with their relationship. Well, isn't that all hunky dory? Oh c'mon, this is everyone is equal, no one can do anything wrong, let's all behave like rooting pigs time is it not? So why not everyone, let's all club together and share our thoughts in how this 60 year old can somehow achieve his goal and get his little catamite safely home in the UK, away from his kith and kin?

Oh, of course he is 19 after all and therefore fair game. Hey, if he was a girl you wouldn't be making all that fuss,would you? You bet your sweet bippy, I would.

Anyone who has spent any time here in Thailand would know that the average 19 year old Thai is nothing but a child in adult's clothing. Jesus, does responsibility extend further than the length of someone's prick on this forum or is Thailand just a foetid pool where the dross can go fishing without any prick to the moral conscience?

Sorry, but I detest exploitation with a passion and this OP makes me want to puke. No education, no prospects,no money, but somehow a 60 year old pederast actually thinks the lad is his friend and wants him.......christ,in any other civilized country his father would put a bullet through the OP's head.

[GU22]

Don't hold back, mate! Say what you think!

The OP's boyfriend is above the age of consent in both Thailand and the UK. You may not care for homosexuals or for large age gaps, though I suspect it is the former that has upset you, but in the eyes of the law in both countries he is an adult and so capable of making his own decisions. Your use of words like "catamite" and " pederast" are totally over the top and bear no relationship to the actual situation here.

[the gent]

Legality is one thing, morality another.

A young immature adolescent from the third world is vulnerable to exploitation by those from western countries who have no compunction in exercising their economic droit de seigneur.Social restraints that may protect such an individual, such as family and other role models, are inevitably undermined when the promise of economic betterment is dangled as an inducement.

The OP could not corrupt someone of his own culture in the UK so easily for obvious reasons.That is why he came to Thailand.

The line between crime and simply disgraceful behaviour may be demarcated in law to his favour but it does not alter the fact that the bounds of decency have been crossed. I chose my terms with care.

His victim will not get a visa, rest assured.

[silomfan]

Don't hold back, mate! Say what you think!

The OP's boyfriend is above the age of consent in both Thailand and the UK. You may not care for homosexuals or for large age gaps, though I suspect it is the former that has upset you, but in the eyes of the law in both countries he is an adult and so capable of making his own decisions. Your use of words like "catamite" and " pederast" are totally over the top and bear no relationship to the actual situation here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Will wonders never cease...i find myself agreeing with GU22 on all points. Really i can't understand why people can't mind their own business and let others lead their lives how they chose.

As Jerry Springer once said in answer to those who critisise his show "if you don't like it ... don't watch it "

SILOMFAN

[caledonia]

Whilst I wouldn't have put it quite as strongly as The Gent I feel he has made a pretty valid point here.

This does smack ever so slightly of exploitation! Just as it would if it was a 19 year old Thai girl with a man of nearly 60 - this is not about sexuality but about what a 19 year old young man can possibily be expected to gain from this relationship! If he was ten years older then its a different ball game but come on we all know how mature the average 19 year old Thai guy is.

I have a 21 year old brother who is gay and I think my parents would have a heart attack if his boyfriend was ten years older than them - then my Dad may well want to knock him out! GBS is very lucky that this young man's family are so supportive but really, it all just does not sit well with me.

19 was not tooooo long ago and well yes legally I was old enough to marry and have sex but to go half way accross the world with a man I had met once who was 39 years older than me!!

I'm sorry but if this had been a 19 years old girl my response would have been he same!

Yes I could have chose to ignore this post, which is exactly why I didn't offer advise but I felt that Gent's point was being lost in the words that he chose to use

[Guest endure]

Legality is one thing, morality another.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Legality is all that matters. 'Morality' is your particular set of prejudices.

[gbswales]

I am not a person to get angry with anyone and if some people feel they should interfere in situations that is entirely up to them. This has not been some simple holiday encounter nor was any kind of "introduction" effected - I have been talking with him regularly on line for almost a year before meeting this October.

Of course I share concerns about the age gap and realistically face the problems and issues this will bring - not least the problem of other gay people who will try to interfere by persuading either me or him that we are both perfectly content with is somehow morally wrong. Exactly what gives someone the right to judge to judge what is right for two other adults.

My friend has no interest in guys his own age or near it, and he is good looking enough to attract a younger gay boyfriend if he wanted to.

What will he have to look forward to - well he will be loved as long as I live (whether he gets here or not!) he will be cared for and nurtured and I hope that I can help him develop and make use of his obvious (but ignored) intelligence.

Of course I am aware that the passion of love that he displays now could change and if it should I will be responsible and let him develop in whatever way is right for him - even if it means letting go.

If I was looking for cheap sex - then it is easily found - do you think I would begin to put myself through all these hurdles just for that?

However this is a free world and you are entitled to an opinion like the rest of us

just make sure however that what you state is "factually" correct

Thanks to all the people who have given advice and support - you outnumber the bigots both in number and stature.

[the gent]

I rather think you know what you should do.

The rest is just so much verbiage, as you full well know.

The visa aint an option.

Merry Xmas.

[gbswales]

I rather think you know what you should do.

The rest is just so much verbiage, as you full well know.

The visa aint an option.

Merry Xmas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you so much for your kind thoughts - it is the usual tactic of someone prejudiced to claim that any reply or debate is "so much verbage" as if there is some kind of absolute morality that only they understand - I feel you know nothing of love - if you did then you would at least find out facts and ask before laying into someone with your version of morality and making false accusations. I know lots of people with similar age gaps who are happy - but sure, I know that for some it does not work - which is precisely why I want to let things go slowly to give him the chance to decide - he states he has no interest in people under 40 which is a choice he made long before he met me, even though I believe him when he says I am the first person he actually met. I encourage him to go out and make friends with all ages becaus I want him to understand what he is doing. If I was selfish enough to let him, he would commit straight away to a civil partnership, but I want to give him time to understand all the implications and to change his mind one day if he wants to - whatever his choice I will do my best to help him achieve something with his life. He will meet many people who think like you and I want to be sure that he realises this and is ready to face it. Younger and older relationships do not seem to have been frowned on in Thailand until the crusading americans decided "Thailand should clean up its act" - well lets not forget who caused the growth of the sex industry in Thailand in the first place!!!

One american resident summed this up when he said in frustration at something - "thai people need to learn.....blah blah" i wont go on about that because it incenses me so much - compared to most americans - thais are 100% more loving, caring and less aggressive. If not for impossible personal reasons I would choose to live there and he would be happy with that too but that is something which can never happen

I have little time for many of the guys who live in thailand, or some in UK who constantly message or email him trying to date him for sex or get him to cyber sex or go naked on cam for them - I dont say any of that is wrong for people who look for that, but his profile makes it clear that he is not looking for that and that sex is not important to him. I know all this because he openly shares his email account with me. I am lucky in that I have found someone that I trust and who trusts me and if we have to wait for the wheels to grind then we will - if he has to go to the army he will be 23 before any serious decision is made - all I am suggesting here is a holiday in the UK to see how he feels. My own concern is that he will be lonely here for Thai friends and company, and better that he find that out sooner rather than later. If it all goes wrong and he decides later that this is not what he wants, why should you begrudge him the opportunity to discover.

I dont know if you are gay or straight but I dont believe that gay relationships are directly comparable to straight ones - for one thing there will be no children and so things like age really only affect the individuals involved. One of my concerns is that if he came from a wealthy background and could afford to come here himself the government would welcome him with open arms - I know others of his age who have come to visit people in such circumstances. It is his inability to prove that he will come back and not overstay that is the stumbling block not my age or his. If I was 25 and offering to sponsor him the problems would be as great.

The big question I put to you is this - if HE is happy, and can change his mind if he wants to, and I treat him with love and respect - what is your concern? I am an experienced parent and know how to care for someone young - I also have contact with many young gay and straight people - but I would not condemn either of my children if they wanted a relationship with someone much older or younger than themselves - as long as they were happy and the person treated them lovingly and they were not breaking any laws. I dont know where you are from by the way but the age of consent in the UK is 16, even younger than in Thailand.

Anyway I wish you (sincerely) for christmas half the measure of love I feel for him - if you get that then you will be a happy man.

[the scouser]

I think this discussions gone as far as it can go without degenerating. Both gbs and the gent have stated their cases.

If gbs goes ahead with his sponsorship, then he can re-post if he so wishes.

Scouse.