Why Do People Migrate?

[Felt 35]

I think we also should have in mind like said in a previous post above that many people moved here years and decades ago but some had never done so if they not was financial capable to take care of themselves both there and here.

But what`s got to their nerve on some of this people who in fact are a economical plus for Thailand (however so little it’s a plus) is that the unspoiled places they once loved have been turned into a concrete jungle and stuffed with sh…t and today all of the lovely places are true copies of Patpong.

….and so goes the song, progress, development, the world change etc,

Progress is when the whole society benefit, not a few, development is to get thing better than they was before...not worse… the world not change...people change the world. Usually they change it to the better but TIT not always.

None who have more with them in the backpack and hidden under stones in their homeland than they eventually can gain with being here is an economical immigrant.

My Grand Grand’s emigrated to America in 1905. They did well but it is a very different story to why I spend 10 out of 12 months in Thailand annually. Besides my visa says Non immigrant and I`m grateful for that.

[xthAi76s]

When discussing this topic, it is also important to keep in mind expectations. Many moved here years or decades ago with the expectation that living in Thailand would be cheap compared to the West. Much of the rest is tolerable if that basic condition is met. Unfortunately, in the last few years this is no longer the case. It is not surprising given this changing dynamic that people start to bemoan more of what they gave up when they migrated. They expected the world to remain the same, but it has shifted, and now they feel slighted.

And, yes, I know that it is still possible for some people to live cheaply here. But I recently had a stay with my mother who was over here from the states for 4 weeks. If you are like me and are raising children, have zero interest in Thai women or night life, need a 4 bedroom house with a yard for the children to play near Bangkok, which is the only practical center of commerce, with 2 cars and a dog but lacking the money for servants, you will find that the cost of living in Thailand is very much the same as if not more than the cost of living in a smaller metropolitan area in the states. The expectation with which many of us moved here that Thailand would be good value for money no longer holds.

But with so much tying us to the country, it is very, very difficult to uproot and move somewhere else. So a type of despondence over circumstances is to be expected, and the reaction of many on this site of "if you don't like it, leave" is neither particularly constructive nor desirable. That doesn't mean that incessant moaning is the solution, but one would hope that everyone would at least understand where some of the discontent is coming from.

People migrate for a variety of reasons, but the unifying factor is that they always believe that life will be better where they are headed. When things change and that is no longer the case, the requirement that they throw away their entire investment in the new location and try again is disheartening to say the least. Whether you love it here or are miserable, keeping a proper perspective on how the recent shifts in the global economy are affecting people has the ability to make threads here much more pleasant. I would prefer to see more constructive comments, rather than the trollish statements which seem to get bandied about every time this subject comes up.

I like your post and agree with almost all of it.

I don't think that everyone is looking for happiness so-to-speak. I'm not. My wife is not. We left very comfortable lives behind us in the US to try something new -- a new challenge. We expected our lives to get harder for some time and maybe never be as comfortable as they once were.

[KeyserSoze01]

Why do people migrate from their home country? Easy, the grass is always greener.

[Trembly]

To the OP :

Probably because they didn't know in advance that it would be racist banana republic with overly spiced food, slow internet, bad service, police who are so corrupt and evil that they would probably place an old rag in the middle of the road to foul your motorcycle chain so that they can come and help you remove it and then walk away without . . . er . . . making any sense (the bastards). Not to mention the impossible and woefully deficient language (god only knows how the natives manage to coherently talk about anything other than food), women who make you buy houses and land for them and dodgy beer that makes holes in your socks.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Trembly

[folium]

I offer my sincere appreciation to all who took the time to post their personal views for this question. 2 weeks after posting, all replies (some serious and others not so serious), sure enlightens one to think about this subject in many different angles.

Thank you

The causes of migration are similar to the glass half full, half empty scenario.

If someone emigrates from a country with the push factors (ie reasons why they want to leave a particular place) being the prime motivation, that feeling of disgruntlement, unhappiness etc can often be transferred on to their reaction to the destination where they become an immigrant. (Funny how few people on TV ever class themselves as an immigrant. Being an expat is so much better and still allows folk to slag off the "immigrants" ruining their home country). To be somewhat harsh if you are an unhappy misfit in one place, moving just transfers those issues to a different location.

If the pull factors (positive reasons that attract someone to a different place) are the main reason for migrating it is likely that that person will be more content unless they had ludicrously optimistic/naive expectations in the first place. Streets paved with gold, grass always green.

With some 200 million immigrants around the world today, there is almost an equal number of motivating factors behind individual decisions. Every person has a slightly different cocktail of reasons behind that decision to up sticks and move.

Perhaps few of us think of ourselves as "immigrant" because our visas tell us we are "non-immigrant"?

We are merely permitted to stay for 12 months, and then able to re-apply for another visa.

So if you moved to the USA for work and you were classified as a 'Non-Resident Alien", would you go around thinking that you were from a different planet?

An immigrant is "someone who leaves their own country to move to another, potentially on a permanent basis". Get over it.

[Ricardo]

To the OP :

Probably because they didn't know in advance that it would be racist banana republic with overly spiced food, slow internet, bad service, police who are so corrupt and evil that they would probably place an old rag in the middle of the road to foul your motorcycle chain so that they can come and help you remove it and then walk away without . . . er . . . making any sense (the bastards). Not to mention the impossible and woefully deficient language (god only knows how the natives manage to coherently talk about anything other than food), women who make you buy houses and land for them and dodgy beer that makes holes in your socks.

Many thanks for your succinct summary of why I enjoy living here ! Beats a boring efficient place like the UK anyday !

[StreetCowboy]

To the OP :

Probably because they didn't know in advance that it would be racist banana republic with overly spiced food, slow internet, bad service, police who are so corrupt and evil that they would probably place an old rag in the middle of the road to foul your motorcycle chain so that they can come and help you remove it and then walk away without . . . er . . . making any sense (the bastards). Not to mention the impossible and woefully deficient language (god only knows how the natives manage to coherently talk about anything other than food), women who make you buy houses and land for them and dodgy beer that makes holes in your socks.

How is one to filter the broken glass out one's whisky when the beer makes holes in your socks?

Its intolerable.

No wonder so many of us go back home.

Luckily I don't believe in spirits

SC

[Berkshire]

From all the other foreigners I've in my 8 years here in Thailand, most of them are happy with their choices. And those few who weren't, moved back to their home countries after a few year.

The odd thing is that some of those who have left actually still post on TV...as if to convince everyone (or themselves) what a great choice they made. Very odd.

Name names!

Surely you don't believe that I'm going to go back and dig up info that is clearly obvious to everyone who can read. These guys typically make it clear in their Thai-bashing rhetoric that they no longer reside in the LOS...but used to. One guy comes to mind who left Thailand for Cambodia. This guy was pretty vocal for awhile...until Cambodia came out with some ridiculous law prohibiting marriage between older foreigners and young Cambodian women. He may still be around but seems to avoid bringing up where he currently lives.

[Berkshire]

People migrate for a variety of reasons, but the unifying factor is that they always believe that life will be better where they are headed.

I agree with much of what you say, particularly regarding the financial aspects and how Thailand isn't the value that it used to be (mostly due to weak western currencies). But it really isn't the Thais' fault that the currency exchange is what it is. Many farangs seem to want to blame someone for their miserable lot in life and the Thais are always an easy target. So it's perfectly acceptable to tell a foreigner who hates the Thais and Thailand that they might be better off elsewhere. The Thais sure aren't leaving.

Regarding expectations, I think some of the disillusionment felt by whining/whinging farangs may not be money related. A lot of these guys come to Thailand for the first time and visit touristry places, e.g., Pattaya and Phuket (and the bars of BKK). They have the locals kissing up to them and treating them like the white messiah. And the bargirls...no need to say more. A lot of these guys are convinced that Thais really do worship farangs. When they start living here full-time and find that this is really not the case, that they aren't as "hansum" as they thought, then frustration steps in. Maybe even a sense of betrayal (self-inflicted, of course). "Why don't the Thais look up to me?" "Don't they know that I have more money than them?" "My opinion should matter more!" "What's wrong with these people?" And so it goes...

[mackes]

When retiring I moved from Europe to Thailand for three reasons; Climat, money and people. This does not change and I'm perfectly happy with it. But my new life I need to create by myself with the help of the wonderful Thai people. One thing I realized when coming here is that it was very hard to take part of the Thai culture if I do not learn to speak the Thai language.

Of course, you can choose to create a colony of your own culture where you live. But to be honest, what do you think of people doing that in your own native home country?

Before moving to another culture,

there are some small things that we need to be aware of for not take the wrong decisions and make our lifes miserable. Some of us got the luck to have parents teaching those things in the beginning of life, some learn "the hard way" and some never learn...

1. You can't run away from yourself. You are always the same you regardless of where you are.

2. You will always need a social platform like a family or closed community (real friends) that you belong to that will support you when in trouble. Those you have to find in your neighbourhood so you need to be careful with choice of home, be open and show respect to your neighbours. Or you will stay alone.

3, Realize that culture and behavior are different throughout the world. Be prepared to change when you move to another culture. If you are not prepared to change, don't move.

Trying to change the people in your environment to "your" culture is disrespectful and doomed to fail. You will only make yourself impossible

4. Drugs can ease your pain, but never solve your problems. The problems will always come back when your sober again, with renewed strenght.

5. You need to fill your days with something, otherwise it will be empty and miserable. That is, you need to take part of the culture you live in.

[IMA_FARANG]

Why did I "migrate"?

Bruce Springsteen says it all is his song, "Born In The U.S.A."

Born down in a dead man's town

The first kick I got was when I hit the ground

and then:

Got into a little home-town jam

So they put a rifle in my hand

Sent me off to a foriegn land

Go and kill the yellow man.

For me, that was Vietnam...but they also taught me electronics...and after I got out of the Army, electronics became my job and carreer. I just never went "home".

Everything else began with that. Good decision too...because I was back to my "home-town" in July 2011...and everything...factories and stores...is all closed up. All the jobs have been out-sourced overseas.

Depressing place now.

That's why I "migrated".

[roadrunerboi]

Singapore is way too expensive... its too close to JB.

There are way too many PRC'ers there now...

Its an island but no beaches even close to Cha-am...and the beach at Cha-am aint even that great!

Viva Thailand...

555

[Naam]

One thing I realized when coming here is that it was very hard to take part of the Thai culture if I do not learn to speak the Thai language.

Of course, you can choose to create a colony of your own culture where you live. But to be honest, what do you think of people doing that in your own native home country?

i views are recognised Mackes... here are mine:

-i respect Thai culture but am not interested to take part in it,

-i live with my family (wife and two dogs) a "cultured" life without having created a new own culture as i did when living in another half a dozen countries,

-i never needed a "social platform" when solving personal problems and i have no intention to use one in future,

-i have not changed a bit since living in Thailand (now 8 years),

-i have never tried to change people in my environment except instructing contractors and workers when building and maintaining my home how things are done my way (not the Thai way),

-you will make yourself "impossible" and lose your personality with futile and doomed attempts to integrate in Thai culture,

-it is utmost arrogant and even insulting to tell people that they have "to fill their days with something", similar to a lecture that "two plus two equals four" besides the irrelevant advice to submerge in Thai culture.

summary (no offence meant): people like you will be always exploited. they are anvils on which others are hammering, never being a hammer themselves.

[lazygourmet]

As a kid -family & I- migrated every two years or so, I loved it... Dad was a a diplomat.

As a teenager, I hated sedentary lifestyle at boarding schools that's why I have chosen hospitality management.

Now, in my mid-forties, I am bored with extensive travels and short-timed contracts.

I am back to a sedentary lifestyle in Thailand... Why Thailand? Because this is where I opened my bag for the last time.

But my bag is always ready to be re-packed.

[zzaa09]

To the OP :

Probably because they didn't know in advance that it would be racist banana republic with overly spiced food, slow internet, bad service, police who are so corrupt and evil that they would probably place an old rag in the middle of the road to foul your motorcycle chain so that they can come and help you remove it and then walk away without . . . er . . . making any sense (the bastards). Not to mention the impossible and woefully deficient language (god only knows how the natives manage to coherently talk about anything other than food), women who make you buy houses and land for them and dodgy beer that makes holes in your socks.

Simple research towards the projected paradise beforehand might suffice.

It still amazes me how folks "expect" a non-Western foreign place to be like home.....and then whinge and whine when it isn't. Best for this majority to stay put in there lovely developed and exceptional homelands.

The real world [at large] would be much better off.

[ravip]

To the OP :

Probably because they didn't know in advance that it would be racist banana republic with overly spiced food, slow internet, bad service, police who are so corrupt and evil that they would probably place an old rag in the middle of the road to foul your motorcycle chain so that they can come and help you remove it and then walk away without . . . er . . . making any sense (the bastards). Not to mention the impossible and woefully deficient language (god only knows how the natives manage to coherently talk about anything other than food), women who make you buy houses and land for them and dodgy beer that makes holes in your socks.

... they didn't know in advance - Who, is to blame for ignorance? The entire world other than your self?

... impossible and woefully deficient language - Whose incompetence are you referring to?

... women who make you buy houses and land for them - forcefully? At the point of a gun?

... and dodgy beer that makes holes in your socks - again forcing it down your throat?

(is it the beer or the quality of your socks?)

Which part of the Universe are you from?

You should make sure you stay there and never move out - any part of the Universe you go to, you WILL definitely find the people and the ambiance you have mentioned about - that is an absolute fact.

Seems nature has gifted you that trait!

(or maybe, a pathetic situation where urgent medical advice is called for?)

Edited January 27, 2012 by ravip

[zzaa09]

To the OP :

Probably because they didn't know in advance that it would be racist banana republic with overly spiced food, slow internet, bad service, police who are so corrupt and evil that they would probably place an old rag in the middle of the road to foul your motorcycle chain so that they can come and help you remove it and then walk away without . . . er . . . making any sense (the bastards). Not to mention the impossible and woefully deficient language (god only knows how the natives manage to coherently talk about anything other than food), women who make you buy houses and land for them and dodgy beer that makes holes in your socks.

... they didn't know in advance - Who, is to blame for ignorance? The entire world other than your self?

... impossible and woefully deficient language - Whose incompetence are you referring to?

... women who make you buy houses and land for them - forcefully? At the point of a gun?

... and dodgy beer that makes holes in your socks - again forcing it down your throat?

(is it the beer or the quality of your socks?)

Which part of the Universe are you from?

You should make sure you stay there and never move out - any part of the Universe you go to, you WILL definitely find the people and the ambiance you have mentioned about - that is an absolute fact.

Seems nature has gifted you that trait!

(or maybe, a pathetic situation where urgent medical advice is called for?)

Frankly, creatures of this sort will be miserable old grouches anywhere.

[poanoi]

For me it was an easy one:

I had the option to

1] stay & freeze to death, or

2] get the hell outa there !

also: i don't think i can be classified as religious, but i have a theory that if if i die when freezing, i might end up in hell

[sparebox2]

My neighbour migrated from China during the culture revolution. They have been suffering for the past 40 years making end meet in Thailand. Now they are regreting it as China is now more developed than Thailand.

[Berkshire]

To the OP :

Probably because they didn't know in advance that it would be racist banana republic with overly spiced food, slow internet, bad service, police who are so corrupt and evil that they would probably place an old rag in the middle of the road to foul your motorcycle chain so that they can come and help you remove it and then walk away without . . . er . . . making any sense (the bastards). Not to mention the impossible and woefully deficient language (god only knows how the natives manage to coherently talk about anything other than food), women who make you buy houses and land for them and dodgy beer that makes holes in your socks.

... they didn't know in advance - Who, is to blame for ignorance? The entire world other than your self?

... impossible and woefully deficient language - Whose incompetence are you referring to?

... women who make you buy houses and land for them - forcefully? At the point of a gun?

... and dodgy beer that makes holes in your socks - again forcing it down your throat?

(is it the beer or the quality of your socks?)

Which part of the Universe are you from?

You should make sure you stay there and never move out - any part of the Universe you go to, you WILL definitely find the people and the ambiance you have mentioned about - that is an absolute fact.

Seems nature has gifted you that trait!

(or maybe, a pathetic situation where urgent medical advice is called for?)

Frankly, creatures of this sort will be miserable old grouches anywhere.

So true...

[mackes]

One thing I realized when coming here is that it was very hard to take part of the Thai culture if I do not learn to speak the Thai language.

Of course, you can choose to create a colony of your own culture where you live. But to be honest, what do you think of people doing that in your own native home country?

i views are recognised Mackes... here are mine:

-i respect Thai culture but am not interested to take part in it,

-i live with my family (wife and two dogs) a "cultured" life without having created a new own culture as i did when living in another half a dozen countries,

-i never needed a "social platform" when solving personal problems and i have no intention to use one in future,

-i have not changed a bit since living in Thailand (now 8 years),

-i have never tried to change people in my environment except instructing contractors and workers when building and maintaining my home how things are done my way (not the Thai way),

-you will make yourself "impossible" and lose your personality with futile and doomed attempts to integrate in Thai culture,

-it is utmost arrogant and even insulting to tell people that they have "to fill their days with something", similar to a lecture that "two plus two equals four" besides the irrelevant advice to submerge in Thai culture.

summary (no offence meant): people like you will be always exploited. they are anvils on which others are hammering, never being a hammer themselves.

Agree about the "filling days" comment Naam, my mistake. Sorry

As I see it you social platform is your wife (and dogs). I have a broader need and am speaking out from myself.

I think we can provide Thai people with good Western ideas like you mentioned about house construction but on their terms.

Respect is my keyword, and I see it lacking in so many comments in this forum.

Thanks for comments

[Trembly]

To the OP :

Probably because they didn't know in advance that it would be racist banana republic with overly spiced food, slow internet, bad service, police who are so corrupt and evil that they would probably place an old rag in the middle of the road to foul your motorcycle chain so that they can come and help you remove it and then walk away without . . . er . . . making any sense (the bastards). Not to mention the impossible and woefully deficient language (god only knows how the natives manage to coherently talk about anything other than food), women who make you buy houses and land for them and dodgy beer that makes holes in your socks.

... they didn't know in advance - Who, is to blame for ignorance? The entire world other than your self?

... impossible and woefully deficient language - Whose incompetence are you referring to?

... women who make you buy houses and land for them - forcefully? At the point of a gun?

... and dodgy beer that makes holes in your socks - again forcing it down your throat?

(is it the beer or the quality of your socks?)

Which part of the Universe are you from?

You should make sure you stay there and never move out - any part of the Universe you go to, you WILL definitely find the people and the ambiance you have mentioned about - that is an absolute fact.

Seems nature has gifted you that trait!

(or maybe, a pathetic situation where urgent medical advice is called for?)

Hook, line and sinker (and I wasn't even fishing)!

As it happens I hail from a corner of the universe called Thailand (and very glad to be back after temporarily migrating to the fatherland).

Your ironicalizer is broken.

xx

[nocturn]

deleted,

Edited January 27, 2012 by nocturn

[Soutpeel]

I think we can provide Thai people with good Western ideas like you mentioned about house construction but on their terms.

But what if Thai people dont want "good western idea's".....you are sounding rather like an old colonial...."lets show the natives how they should live"....

So it would appear your posts are lacking in respect as well !!

[4evermaat]

When discussing this topic, it is also important to keep in mind expectations. Many moved here years or decades ago with the expectation that living in Thailand would be cheap compared to the West. Much of the rest is tolerable if that basic condition is met. Unfortunately, in the last few years this is no longer the case. It is not surprising given this changing dynamic that people start to bemoan more of what they gave up when they migrated. They expected the world to remain the same, but it has shifted, and now they feel slighted.

And, yes, I know that it is still possible for some people to live cheaply here. But I recently had a stay with my mother who was over here from the states for 4 weeks. If you are like me and are raising children, have zero interest in Thai women or night life, need a 4 bedroom house with a yard for the children to play near Bangkok, which is the only practical center of commerce, with 2 cars and a dog but lacking the money for servants, you will find that the cost of living in Thailand is very much the same as if not more than the cost of living in a smaller metropolitan area in the states. The expectation with which many of us moved here that Thailand would be good value for money no longer holds.

But with so much tying us to the country, it is very, very difficult to uproot and move somewhere else. So a type of despondence over circumstances is to be expected, and the reaction of many on this site of "if you don't like it, leave" is neither particularly constructive nor desirable. That doesn't mean that incessant moaning is the solution, but one would hope that everyone would at least understand where some of the discontent is coming from.

People migrate for a variety of reasons, but the unifying factor is that they always believe that life will be better where they are headed. When things change and that is no longer the case, the requirement that they throw away their entire investment in the new location and try again is disheartening to say the least. Whether you love it here or are miserable, keeping a proper perspective on how the recent shifts in the global economy are affecting people has the ability to make threads here much more pleasant. I would prefer to see more constructive comments, rather than the trollish statements which seem to get bandied about every time this subject comes up.

Perhaps few of us think of ourselves as "immigrant" because our visas tell us we are "non-immigrant"?

We are merely permitted to stay for 12 months, and then able to re-apply for another visa.

I was wondering where the assumption came from that people were immigrants. All farang, unless they have Thai PR or citizenship are non-immigrants at best. This means that you are just a passerby-er. When you come to a place like LoS, you must be willing to relinquish some of your Western wants. If you want to keep them, then be prepared to pay for them. You may need a roof over your head, some food to eat, air to breathe. I mean to have a clean studio room with air condition and hot water for $130-250 with electric,

I rent a rather large place now for 2800 baht with water. 1200 for electric. We use the a/c only when have customers, although that might change when i move one of the units into the bedroom. I installed two western toilets and two hot water shower heaters. Sure I cannot take some of these extra fittings with me, but so what? It increases the resale value of the business. I got my use out of them, and the next person can enjoy them also.

If you come here to latch on to land, then you have a far road of disappointment ahead. None of this stuff was ours in the first place. When you reach that level of awareness, then you play and enjoy what is left of your life.

I agree with much of what you say, particularly regarding the financial aspects and how Thailand isn't the value that it used to be (mostly due to weak western currencies). But it really isn't the Thais' fault that the currency exchange is what it is. Many farangs seem to want to blame someone for their miserable lot in life and the Thais are always an easy target. So it's perfectly acceptable to tell a foreigner who hates the Thais and Thailand that they might be better off elsewhere. The Thais sure aren't leaving.

Regarding expectations, I think some of the disillusionment felt by whining/whinging farangs may not be money related. A lot of these guys come to Thailand for the first time and visit touristry places, e.g., Pattaya and Phuket (and the bars of BKK). They have the locals kissing up to them and treating them like the white messiah. And the bargirls...no need to say more. A lot of these guys are convinced that Thais really do worship farangs. When they start living here full-time and find that this is really not the case, that they aren't as "hansum" as they thought, then frustration steps in. Maybe even a sense of betrayal (self-inflicted, of course). "Why don't the Thais look up to me?" "Don't they know that I have more money than them?" "My opinion should matter more!" "What's wrong with these people?" And so it goes...

Good point. Can't change people. Accept them as they are and then make a choice. Obviously we can influence a particular area, but that's about it. It's a victim role thing, and the ego goes through great lengths to ensure that you remain a victim.

[gregb]

I was wondering where the assumption came from that people were immigrants. All farang, unless they have Thai PR or citizenship are non-immigrants at best.

One of my pet peeves is people who continually try and say we are all guests simply because the bureaucracy says we are. My life is here. My job is here. My children are Thai. Just because I have to request an extension of stay every year on what is technically a non-B has nothing to do with reality. In every way that matters, I've been here 15 years and am an immigrant. Technicalities are largely irrelevant.

By all means, think of yourself as a guest if that makes you happy. My home is here. I object to people continually trying to tell me I am a guest simply because there are a few rules I have to follow to maintain my residency. I wouldn't consider myself to be a "guest" in an apartment complex where I lived simply because I had to pay rent every month, and could be evicted if I didn't. Similarly, I don't consider myself a "guest" in this country simply because I have to apply for an extension of stay periodically.

[F1fanatic]

I was wondering where the assumption came from that people were immigrants. All farang, unless they have Thai PR or citizenship are non-immigrants at best.

One of my pet peeves is people who continually try and say we are all guests simply because the bureaucracy says we are. My life is here. My job is here. My children are Thai. Just because I have to request an extension of stay every year on what is technically a non-B has nothing to do with reality. In every way that matters, I've been here 15 years and am an immigrant. Technicalities are largely irrelevant.

By all means, think of yourself as a guest if that makes you happy. My home is here. I object to people continually trying to tell me I am a guest simply because there are a few rules I have to follow to maintain my residency. I wouldn't consider myself to be a "guest" in an apartment complex where I lived simply because I had to pay rent every month, and could be evicted if I didn't. Similarly, I don't consider myself a "guest" in this country simply because I have to apply for an extension of stay periodically.

And let's all hope that the government will always allow us foreigners to stay here.

Unfortunately, there's always the fear that as few foreigners are granted citizenship, and politics tends to look for 'someone to blame' - we could all be thrown out at any moment to satisfy a voter need to get rid of the 'jews' - or rather, the Thai equivalent....

[Naam]

Agree about the "filling days" comment Naam, my mistake. Sorry

As I see it you social platform is your wife (and dogs). I have a broader need and am speaking out from myself.

I think we can provide Thai people with good Western ideas like you mentioned about house construction but on their terms.

Respect is my keyword, and I see it lacking in so many comments in this forum.

Thanks for comments

Mackes,

the sad truth is that we Farangs do not exactly behave like role models, exceptions prove the rule. i'm not talking short term experience but based on multiple times i have visited Thailand during the 25 years before i settled down here. of course i admit that this experience is based what i saw in a fistful of tourist areas and my knowledge of foreigners living in rural areas is rather limited. but it's tourist areas where the show goes on, to which Thais from all areas moved to work, get their impressions and based on the latter make a mental judgment.

as you correctly realised, this forum provides an opportunity for any loser to bash Thailand, Thai citizens, Thai traditions and traditional Thai behaviour. quite often the complaints are to a certain extent justified. but in many cases the complaints are based on trivial incidents blown out of proportions. it is only logical to assume that a high percentage of foreigners display their "much better than you native!" attitude during their daily contacts with Thais and it's logical to assume that Thais generalise and mentally judge, if not all, but most of us based on their experience.

to sum it up: basic respect of us Farangs towards our host country and its inhabitants is missing. with this sentence i have committed two serious crimes. i have used the word "Farang" (genrally used for caucasian foreigner) which the crème de la crème of Thaivisa members (with limited education) consider an insult and i used "host country" which -according to the afore-mentioned unlearned members- is not applicable because "they want only our money, we are barely tolerated, they move up the bar every now and then, soon they will kick us out because they hate us and our righteous life style".

[Naam]

One of my pet peeves is people who continually try and say we are all guests simply because the bureaucracy says we are. My life is here. My job is here. My children are Thai. Just because I have to request an extension of stay every year on what is technically a non-B has nothing to do with reality. In every way that matters, I've been here 15 years and am an immigrant. Technicalities are largely irrelevant.

By all means, think of yourself as a guest if that makes you happy. My home is here. I object to people continually trying to tell me I am a guest simply because there are a few rules I have to follow to maintain my residency. I wouldn't consider myself to be a "guest" in an apartment complex where I lived simply because I had to pay rent every month, and could be evicted if I didn't. Similarly, I don't consider myself a "guest" in this country simply because I have to apply for an extension of stay periodically.

strange, i have never thought of being anybody else than a guest when i'm living in a hotel or eat in a restaurant paying for accomodation and/or food.

[samran]

I was wondering where the assumption came from that people were immigrants. All farang, unless they have Thai PR or citizenship are non-immigrants at best.

One of my pet peeves is people who continually try and say we are all guests simply because the bureaucracy says we are. My life is here. My job is here. My children are Thai. Just because I have to request an extension of stay every year on what is technically a non-B has nothing to do with reality. In every way that matters, I've been here 15 years and am an immigrant. Technicalities are largely irrelevant.

By all means, think of yourself as a guest if that makes you happy. My home is here. I object to people continually trying to tell me I am a guest simply because there are a few rules I have to follow to maintain my residency. I wouldn't consider myself to be a "guest" in an apartment complex where I lived simply because I had to pay rent every month, and could be evicted if I didn't. Similarly, I don't consider myself a "guest" in this country simply because I have to apply for an extension of stay periodically.

And let's all hope that the government will always allow us foreigners to stay here.

Unfortunately, there's always the fear that as few foreigners are granted citizenship, and politics tends to look for 'someone to blame' - we could all be thrown out at any moment to satisfy a voter need to get rid of the 'jews' - or rather, the Thai equivalent....

it is largely a paranoid fear based on not very much evidence. I mean this is a country which gives away work visas like candy to historical enemies in Burma and Cambodia and has integrated the Chinese better than just about any other SE Asian country. If they are doing that for them, thinking that they are going to chuck out westerners (who can visa run their life here) is a bit of a stretch.

As for the citizenship one...well given that so few bother to apply, then you wouldn't expect many to be granted it now would you?

Gregb is right, it is largely semantics. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck....etc etc.

Edited January 28, 2012 by samran