What'S Next For A Beach Tourist Destination Like Pattaya?

[Nignoy]

Surely Pattaya was better like this , no concrete, not a hooker or katoi insight 4th of may 1964

[Mario2008]

1 post deleted for advocating slicing throaths.

[JSixpack]

It's time for this year's first DYING PATTAYA thread! Yay! Let's all say the same thing we did last March-April in the Even More Dead Than Last Year thread. After Pattaya had already "died," this has been a good high season. Whoops.

Even the topic subtitle presumes the "death." As usual, anybody who disagrees MUST be a real estate agent! Or wearing rose-tinted glasses! Gotta love this forum.

For most our posters there can be only two kinds of progress: 1. More beer bars on Beach Rd, cheaper beer, and cheaper bar fines; deserted, pristine beach although they'd seldom if ever swim in the sea 2. Ban all the beer bars, end all the "vice" or zone it outside of their privileged area (the beach), and have a granny resort like St. Augustine, Florida.

OK, for the 10th time or so:

Pattaya has been getting progressively better. Development slowed during the financial crisis of '97 but quickly resumed. Derelict buildings like the now Northshore were renovated. Lots of new infrastructure. (Love the inevitable chantings of "no infrastrcture" as if chanting that makes it true. Can't even see that new road from the airport; didn't notice the new traffic lights; can't remember when there was no internet in PTY.) Day Night renovated to be the wildly successful Tukcom, now another a-building on Pattaya Klang (new PowerBuy just opened). Changing demographics, but the old demographic is being served as well or better at Soi Buakow, where another beer bar complex just opened. The go-go and bar scene has greatly expanded in the last few years; plenty of bars still facing Beach Rd; shows just as raunchy as ever. Central means we no longer need to go to Robinson's in Siricha. 'Twas predicted to be deserted and even to fall down, of course, here on the forum; in fact it's doing great. Tremendous expansion of the housing and condo markets still going on now. A vast number of jobs have been added to the economy in the non-beer bar category.

PTY is crowded and still booming. Sorry!

The critical subject of beer prices. Prices throughout all developed cities in Thailand have risen substantially in the past few years. In fact inflation has been worldwide. Yet some years ago there were no happy hours and 85 baht for a beer in a go-go was the norm. Now w/ happy hours, a draft in a go-go ranges from 50-65 baht. Also recent years have seen the rise of the discount beer bar such as Mick's across from Soi 8 where the price of bottle is only 45 baht (last I checked)--same price as a typical bottle 15 years ago.

Nobody ever came to PTY to swim and they don't now. The sidewalks have always been crap; still are, always will be: TIT. Nobody comes to or stays away from PTY (or BKK) because of the sidewalks. But keep thinking that you've made a big point w/ the sidewalks!

You see, contrary to most postings by the whingers here, most residents of Pattaya like it better now than before. Yes, a bitter pill to swallow for you whingers, but there it is. We like having a Tukcom and Central and Big C Extra (hot button issue: YES, Carrefour was better) and the new bars/restaurants around Soi Buakow/LK Metro, for example. Walking St is so much better now than before it was closed to traffic and you had dodge all the posers on their rented Steeds.

And we don't want any goddam zoning, which our nanny staters will always advocate. Pattaya's great being chaotic w/ beer bars and ho's everywhere--as it always has been.

The DYING PATTAYA advocates can't say what it is that was SO much better before except they liked it less crowded, or their favorite beer bar w/ Miss Lek closed. But PTY has always been crowded during high season. What is true is that traffic is far worse and the parking situation is the worst ever. The bottleneck preventing much remedy is the baht bus mafia. However, if it really does get so bad that business begins to suffer, something will be done about it, just as it was in Bangkok. When the condo market began to slump, for example, the foreign ownership rule was relaxed. Truth is, it's not at the critical point yet, though it seems so to our whingers and fear mongers. PTY doesn't exist for farangs: it exists for Thais. Yeah, yeah, I know.

Kinda reminds me of the whinging and disputes over food and restaurants here. Meanwhile, Kiss Restaurant across from Mike's on 2nd Rd is packed out every single day! I'd say that most posters here just aren't in touch w/ the reality of Pattaya.

See also, from two years ago,

Why Is Everything Opening Up

Same, same.

Remember, Bang Chang or beautiful, static Pyonyang are ready and waiting for you!

No, I'm not a real estate agent or developer or speculator. Yawn. Hope yu enjoyed!

Edited January 23, 2012 by JSixpack

[StreetCowboy]

Surely Pattaya was better like this , no concrete, not a hooker or katoi insight 4th of may 1964

It doesn't appear to provide much employment opportunity.

I think if I wanted that sort of a place, I'd go to Cove.

There are many thousands of idyllic fishing villages in many countries where people can go to watch archaic fishing practices. In my country, there are many idyllic fishing villages where the local industry has died out, to be replaced by pensioners and a scattering of holiday homes. Pattaya, by dint of its proximity to a major international air port and US military bases, has had the opportunity to change, and become an attraction of world-wide fame, and a source of employment for people from all over Thailand and beyond. Perhaps you don't want people to have jobs, but they do.

SC

[craigt3365]

"It's time for this year's first DYING PATTAYA thread! Yay! Let's all say the same thing we did last March-April in the Even More Dead Than Last Year thread. After Pattaya had already "died," this has been a good high season. Whoops."

You were in the minority, but thanks for the brief respite from your 'objective' pontification.

However, at least you are a resident, and not some nosy self centered tourist who does not have to deal with the ever increasing herds of pachyderms.

Ask your self this question: How many dark skinned Isaan girls do I see working in Central, Hilton, Holiday Inn, Naklua resorts? Due to systemic racism, the bar scene offers the only hope for these girls to provide for their families, so - while I may experience inconvenience, they endure real hardship. This is not progress. It is systematic re-construction designed to funnel money out of Pattaya, with little or no reinvestment in to the local community.

One last thought. You guys that live outside Northern Naklua, central Pattaya, and Jomtien, and are singing praises, remind me of the elites who live on the hill. They look down upon the masses and decide what is best for them. However, they live in gated communities because they do not want the observed changes to enter their world.

I think that's extremely unfair. I know many who live in very humble abodes in the surrounding communities. Even if they are gated (some are not), doesn't mean they are hi-so. Security is a real issue here. And seems to me almost all of the condos in and around Pattya have security guards protecting their entrances also...hi-so and lo-so ones.

[stailmanki]

" whats-next-for-a-beach-tourist-destination-like-pattaya ?"

When are we going to get a casino ?

How about a monorail to the airport ?

What will Koh Larn be like in 20 years time ?

Edited January 23, 2012 by stailmanki

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Pattaya continues to develop and expand daily and has done ever since the 97 crash, new shops, new roads and infrastructure (i know some will say not enough and not quick enough), some new condos being snapped up at an alarming rate, more and more people coming here to stay all points to progress, certainly no decline as some would like to believe.

Tourist numbers continue to rise, maybe the types of tourist are not to everyone's liking but they are tourist numbers regardless, i reckon the city would rather have tourists spending big money in Central, the numerous tourist attractions, the big resorts and hotels than sipping on a 40 Baht beer in in a dusty beer bar with their arse crack hanging out for all to see!!

Most of the doomsayers on here tend not to look at the big picture of Pattaya as an international tourist destination and home to many thousands of expats, instead they focus on what does not suit them and think the whole of Pattaya should be changed to satisfy their needs - which is a bit sad really.

So in answer to the OP, "What'S Next For A Beach Tourist Destination Like Pattaya?Rejuvenation or decline..." I think it will continue to grow and prosper as it is doing now without any major intervention needed.

The jet ski scammers do need to be sorted out urgently though!!

Actually it is the real estate developers/investors that hate the place and want to make it into something it will never be. They want to destroy virtually everything that was good about it, and have pretty much done so. Those who do not like what is happening are certainly aware of the place as an "international" destination, and we all know for "what" (hint, it is not for the beaches). Yes, it will continue to grow. It might be a good idea for people to embrace the concept that all growth is not good. It is sad to see the place decline the way it has declined. It used to be inexpensive, stress free, fun, crime free, etc. The growth you love has destroyed most of that. Yes, I see more destructive growth in the future and am so happy I did not invest in the place.

[Ulysses G.]

is sad to see the place decline the way it has declined. It used to be inexpensive, stress free, fun, crime free, etc.

When I first came here more than 20 years ago it was a dirty, sh*thole with people selling heroin on street corners and plenty of other crime. It improved after the 1997 crash, but is better now than it was before that time.

[LennyW]

"It's time for this year's first DYING PATTAYA thread! Yay! Let's all say the same thing we did last March-April in the Even More Dead Than Last Year thread. After Pattaya had already "died," this has been a good high season. Whoops."

You were in the minority, but thanks for the brief respite from your 'objective' pontification.

However, at least you are a resident, and not some nosy self centered tourist who does not have to deal with the ever increasing herds of pachyderms.

Ask your self this question: How many dark skinned Isaan girls do I see working in Central, Hilton, Holiday Inn, Naklua resorts? Due to systemic racism, the bar scene offers the only hope for these girls to provide for their families, so - while I may experience inconvenience, they endure real hardship. This is not progress. It is systematic re-construction designed to funnel money out of Pattaya, with little or no reinvestment in to the local community.

One last thought. You guys that live outside Northern Naklua, central Pattaya, and Jomtien, and are singing praises, remind me of the elites who live on the hill. They look down upon the masses and decide what is best for them. However, they live in gated communities because they do not want the observed changes to enter their world.

The topic is not about what ladies staff the shops in Pattaya or what their backgrounds are, The topic is about Pattaya as a tourist destination, and tourisim in Pattaya, like it or not – is thriving !!

“Little or no re-investment into the community” you have got to be kidding?? I am not going to quote what was already posted by JSixpack, just broaden your outlook and open you eyes you will see how way off the mark that statement was!

Your comment about people that live outside Northern Naklua, central Pattaya, and Jomtien is completely ridiculous in this context, this is precisely what I was trying to get across by “looking past Beach road and Walking street”. ….

Attractions to the North include Sri Racha Tiger Zoo, Kheo Kheow Open Zoo, and to the south Nong Nooch Tropical Garden, Silverlake Vineyard, Khao Chee Chan, Wat Yan and Virayah Sien (SP?)..all of these attractions are listed as Pattaya attractions as far as tourisim is concerned, but way outwith the boundaries that you suggest, and guess what…..they all get busier by the day!!

Of course the usual chant by the haters will be that all of the above are just tourist traps – well hello!!! this topic is about tourisim, these establishments were built to cater for tourists and they do it well. One of the best examples is the Floating market, despite some peoples personal opinions, there is no denying that it is a remarkable success and goes from strength to strength every day, this single attraction is pulling nearly 8000 visitors most days, even the Jurassic garden opposite, which was a dead duck for a long time, is seeing incredible visitor numbers.

In the context of this topic please stop being blinkered by the “central Pattaya and Bars / Ladies” mentality, look beyond that and you may well learn something about your surroundings that might just surprise you!!!

[LennyW]

Pattaya continues to develop and expand daily and has done ever since the 97 crash, new shops, new roads and infrastructure (i know some will say not enough and not quick enough), some new condos being snapped up at an alarming rate, more and more people coming here to stay all points to progress, certainly no decline as some would like to believe.

Tourist numbers continue to rise, maybe the types of tourist are not to everyone's liking but they are tourist numbers regardless, i reckon the city would rather have tourists spending big money in Central, the numerous tourist attractions, the big resorts and hotels than sipping on a 40 Baht beer in in a dusty beer bar with their arse crack hanging out for all to see!!

Most of the doomsayers on here tend not to look at the big picture of Pattaya as an international tourist destination and home to many thousands of expats, instead they focus on what does not suit them and think the whole of Pattaya should be changed to satisfy their needs - which is a bit sad really.

So in answer to the OP, "What'S Next For A Beach Tourist Destination Like Pattaya?Rejuvenation or decline..." I think it will continue to grow and prosper as it is doing now without any major intervention needed.

The jet ski scammers do need to be sorted out urgently though!!

Actually it is the real estate developers/investors that hate the place and want to make it into something it will never be. They want to destroy virtually everything that was good about it, and have pretty much done so. Those who do not like what is happening are certainly aware of the place as an "international" destination, and we all know for "what" (hint, it is not for the beaches). Yes, it will continue to grow. It might be a good idea for people to embrace the concept that all growth is not good. It is sad to see the place decline the way it has declined. It used to be inexpensive, stress free, fun, crime free, etc. The growth you love has destroyed most of that. Yes, I see more destructive growth in the future and am so happy I did not invest in the place.

Real estate developers are driven by customer demand, customers want to purchase real estate in the Pattaya / Jomtien - then developers will respond by providing the accommodations they require, you too are a customer that requires a nightly roof over your head!

Nobody is destroying anything, progress and investment is continuing to improve the Pattaya region as a whole, blinkered selfishness by a few old timers will not change that, you need to look past your own feelings / agenda and see beyond self satisfaction – you will then see that Pattaya is on anything but decline.

[StreetCowboy]

" whats-next-for-a-beach-tourist-destination-like-pattaya ?"

When are we going to get a casino ?

How about a monorail to the airport ?

What will Koh Larn be like in 20 years time ?

Its unusual to have positive suggestions on TV.

I normally go to Pattaya for family holidays or just for a break from Bangkok.

SC

[CGW]

I have lived here over 20 years, Pattaya has come a long way in that time, but It's not sustainable, traffic will gridlock, the gabage lined streets are getting smaller, parking spaces are all full, Soi dogs everywhere, polluted ocean, now they are going to tear up Sukhumvit for the next 2 years ( +++). City hall just rakes in the cash, no action why the hell they can't clean the place up is beyond me, its hardly considered rocket science to repair footpaths or pick up garbage.

But it doubtless beats being in Siberia in < 40c weather, as long as people are coming, nothing will change until it has too, though I see no slow down, avoid downtown like the plague now, Jomtien has become a tip, as has the "darkside" sad really city hall are only interested in lining there pockets......

[janverbeem]

I have lived here over 20 years, Pattaya has come a long way in that time, but It's not sustainable, traffic will gridlock, the gabage lined streets are getting smaller, parking spaces are all full, Soi dogs everywhere, polluted ocean, now they are going to tear up Sukhumvit for the next 2 years ( +++). City hall just rakes in the cash, no action why the hell they can't clean the place up is beyond me, its hardly considered rocket science to repair footpaths or pick up garbage.

But it doubtless beats being in Siberia in < 40c weather, as long as people are coming, nothing will change until it has too, though I see no slow down, avoid downtown like the plague now, Jomtien has become a tip, as has the "darkside" sad really city hall are only interested in lining there pockets......

I thought sukhumvith,and most other roads in Pattaya since this mayor is in charge, were digged up already.

At least that is the experience when you're using them.

[CGW]

^ The "Latest money maker" is underpasses at each of the major junctions starting with Klang, at > 2 years apiece we are looking at a minimum of 6 years traffic disruption!

[Soutpeel]

^ The "Latest money maker" is underpasses at each of the major junctions starting with Klang, at > 2 years apiece we are looking at a minimum of 6 years traffic disruption!

dont forget about the dolphin statutes and the U-turns that are being installed in the underpasses, this takes time...

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Pattaya continues to develop and expand daily and has done ever since the 97 crash, new shops, new roads and infrastructure (i know some will say not enough and not quick enough), some new condos being snapped up at an alarming rate, more and more people coming here to stay all points to progress, certainly no decline as some would like to believe.

Tourist numbers continue to rise, maybe the types of tourist are not to everyone's liking but they are tourist numbers regardless, i reckon the city would rather have tourists spending big money in Central, the numerous tourist attractions, the big resorts and hotels than sipping on a 40 Baht beer in in a dusty beer bar with their arse crack hanging out for all to see!!

Most of the doomsayers on here tend not to look at the big picture of Pattaya as an international tourist destination and home to many thousands of expats, instead they focus on what does not suit them and think the whole of Pattaya should be changed to satisfy their needs - which is a bit sad really.

So in answer to the OP, "What'S Next For A Beach Tourist Destination Like Pattaya?Rejuvenation or decline..." I think it will continue to grow and prosper as it is doing now without any major intervention needed.

The jet ski scammers do need to be sorted out urgently though!!

Actually it is the real estate developers/investors that hate the place and want to make it into something it will never be. They want to destroy virtually everything that was good about it, and have pretty much done so. Those who do not like what is happening are certainly aware of the place as an "international" destination, and we all know for "what" (hint, it is not for the beaches). Yes, it will continue to grow. It might be a good idea for people to embrace the concept that all growth is not good. It is sad to see the place decline the way it has declined. It used to be inexpensive, stress free, fun, crime free, etc. The growth you love has destroyed most of that. Yes, I see more destructive growth in the future and am so happy I did not invest in the place.

Real estate developers are driven by customer demand, customers want to purchase real estate in the Pattaya / Jomtien - then developers will respond by providing the accommodations they require, you too are a customer that requires a nightly roof over your head!

Nobody is destroying anything, progress and investment is continuing to improve the Pattaya region as a whole, blinkered selfishness by a few old timers will not change that, you need to look past your own feelings / agenda and see beyond self satisfaction – you will then see that Pattaya is on anything but decline.

Some people seem to live inside a real estate brochure. When I am commenting, I am not doing so thinking about myself only. I am commenting on what is happening to the place for the majority. A small minority hates the place and wants to change it in the name of "progress." They have a "vision" about what it "should be like" according to their fantasy. They are driven totally by selfish reasons. Because of what they have done the city has been ruined and is set for more destructive growth in the future. The major decline took place over the past ten years. The model the OP pointed out is valid. The golden period is already over--destroyed by mindless growth. The 5 star vision of the future is dead, destroyed by reality on the ground. Good luck selling your idea. I will not be buying into it.

[CGW]

^ The "Latest money maker" is underpasses at each of the major junctions starting with Klang, at > 2 years apiece we are looking at a minimum of 6 years traffic disruption!

dont forget about the dolphin statutes and the U-turns that are being installed in the underpasses, this takes time...

Yes sorry forgot about these important additions, they recently did an underground by pass in Khon Kean, took about 3 years! given that this is Pattaya and there are three such underpasses, 10 years traffic upheavel? Not that bad, it took over 5 years to get the highway to Bangkok finished & lets not mention Jomtien ..............

[JeffreyMcCollum]

Pattaya - a beach resort?

I have been going there for years and haven't ever seen a beach. Is that really what people go there for ?

[Darrel]

There's no shortage of people doing beachy things on Pattaya/Jomtien beach.

[JSixpack]

is sad to see the place decline the way it has declined. It used to be inexpensive, stress free, fun, crime free, etc.

When I first came here more than 20 years ago it was a dirty, sh*thole with people selling heroin on street corners and plenty of other crime. It improved after the 1997 crash, but is better now than it was before that time.

Heh. The "crime free" bit was especially amusing. Anybody who knows Pattaya (and Thailand, and Thais) would realize the absurdity of that assertion, but in any event those old issues of the Pattaya Mail will bear witness.

A textbook example of the delusory nature of nostalgia.

[LennyW]

Pattaya continues to develop and expand daily and has done ever since the 97 crash, new shops, new roads and infrastructure (i know some will say not enough and not quick enough), some new condos being snapped up at an alarming rate, more and more people coming here to stay all points to progress, certainly no decline as some would like to believe.

Tourist numbers continue to rise, maybe the types of tourist are not to everyone's liking but they are tourist numbers regardless, i reckon the city would rather have tourists spending big money in Central, the numerous tourist attractions, the big resorts and hotels than sipping on a 40 Baht beer in in a dusty beer bar with their arse crack hanging out for all to see!!

Most of the doomsayers on here tend not to look at the big picture of Pattaya as an international tourist destination and home to many thousands of expats, instead they focus on what does not suit them and think the whole of Pattaya should be changed to satisfy their needs - which is a bit sad really.

So in answer to the OP, "What'S Next For A Beach Tourist Destination Like Pattaya?Rejuvenation or decline..." I think it will continue to grow and prosper as it is doing now without any major intervention needed.

The jet ski scammers do need to be sorted out urgently though!!

Actually it is the real estate developers/investors that hate the place and want to make it into something it will never be. They want to destroy virtually everything that was good about it, and have pretty much done so. Those who do not like what is happening are certainly aware of the place as an "international" destination, and we all know for "what" (hint, it is not for the beaches). Yes, it will continue to grow. It might be a good idea for people to embrace the concept that all growth is not good. It is sad to see the place decline the way it has declined. It used to be inexpensive, stress free, fun, crime free, etc. The growth you love has destroyed most of that. Yes, I see more destructive growth in the future and am so happy I did not invest in the place.

Real estate developers are driven by customer demand, customers want to purchase real estate in the Pattaya / Jomtien - then developers will respond by providing the accommodations they require, you too are a customer that requires a nightly roof over your head!

Nobody is destroying anything, progress and investment is continuing to improve the Pattaya region as a whole, blinkered selfishness by a few old timers will not change that, you need to look past your own feelings / agenda and see beyond self satisfaction – you will then see that Pattaya is on anything but decline.

Some people seem to live inside a real estate brochure. When I am commenting, I am not doing so thinking about myself only. I am commenting on what is happening to the place for the majority. A small minority hates the place and wants to change it in the name of "progress." They have a "vision" about what it "should be like" according to their fantasy. They are driven totally by selfish reasons. Because of what they have done the city has been ruined and is set for more destructive growth in the future. The major decline took place over the past ten years. The model the OP pointed out is valid. The golden period is already over--destroyed by mindless growth. The 5 star vision of the future is dead, destroyed by reality on the ground. Good luck selling your idea. I will not be buying into it.

Your perception of a city in decline is based on a yearning for a past that will never be repeated, your failure to embrace, harmonise with and adapt to the present , makes you see things with the blinkered vision that you do!!

You persist that the city is on some sort of decline over the past 10 years. If you truly believe that then answer me this…….

1) Have tourist/visitor numbers to Pattaya declined over the last 10 years? – NO, perhaps not the type of tourist you are familiar to seeing, but numbers are increasing year on year.

2) Have the number of retirees coming to reside in Pattaya over the last 10 years? – NO, just ask any immigration official.

3) Has the Government budget for infrastructure projects declined over the past 10 years? – NO, far from it, whilst the budgets may have been better allocated/spent, there is certainly no decline the amount being provided.

4) Have the number of investments in new condo buildings and housing projects declined over the last 10 years? – NO, perhaps a little respite around 2008 but current spending more than makes up for that.

5) Have the number of tourist attractions in the area decreased over the last 10 years? – NO, quite the opposite, many new have opened up and visitor numbers to these attractions increase week by week.

6) Has there been a reduction in foreign investment as far as hotels in Pattaya goes over the last 10 years? – NO, Hilton, Hard Rock, Holiday Inn to name but a few have smart people working for them to advise them where is best to invest.

None of the above would point to a city in decline as far as any city administration would read it – (and I am sure these are some of the yardsticks they would use to determine that !!), or any investor for that matter, not to a realist anyway.

I understand some people have a morbid fear of change and an un-willingness to adapt, but this should never be confused with decline, even if saying it over and over again may make you feel somehow justified, it does not make it so.

The Pattaya administration is here to steer their city in a direction that is beneficial to the people of Pattaya and Thailand, not just to please a few misguided foreigners who have a hankering for years gone by, and in that respect I think the city is far from being on the decline and the signs for the future are very good!

[JSixpack]

Ask your self this question: How many dark skinned Isaan girls do I see working in Central, Hilton, Holiday Inn, Naklua resorts? Due to systemic racism, the bar scene offers the only hope for these girls to provide for their families, so - while I may experience inconvenience, they endure real hardship.

How many? Proportionately as many as you see working in comparable resorts and department stores elsewhere in Thailand. Says nothing, really. (And not our business, as foreigners here.) Only hope? Ridiculous. But have you ever noticed how ambitious, career-minded, hard-working, and academically inclined are the girls working in the bar scene? If offered a sales job at Central for a lower monthly take than they get from the bar, would they accept? Did you ever happen to notice a different attitude among Chinese Thais?

Those working in the resorts and dept. stores aren't just the pretty ladies on the front counters. Many of the service staff seem to be from Isaan. A manager at any level could be from Isaan, as I think you'll find that successful Thais will adamantly deny that darker skin is an impediment to financial success except perhaps in something like fashion modeling.

This is not progress. It is systematic re-construction designed to funnel money out of Pattaya, with little or no reinvestment in to the local community.

It's great progress, funnels an incredible amount of money into PTY. Also great progress for tourists and those of us living here who enjoy occasional shopping or eating in said establishments. They couldn't stay in business if they didn't meet the needs & wants of a market in Pattaya. Native-born Pattayans exclusively could not possibly have financed them, and those who did deserve a return on investment--but after all they are publicly listed companies and anyone, including any Pattaya resident, may invest. BTW, Central paid for a major upgrade of the electric grid. Earlier I didn't mention how much better the the power situation is now than before. Used to have a blackout or brownout every few days . . . .

I'd suggest taking a few courses in economics.

One last thought. You guys that live outside Northern Naklua, central Pattaya, and Jomtien, and are singing praises, remind me of the elites who live on the hill. They look down upon the masses and decide what is best for them. However, they live in gated communities because they do not want the observed changes to enter their world.

Thought? I'm glad you were called out on this embarrassing, naïve bit of nonsense. Seems you have a chip on your shoulder and victim mentality, projected onto others as well. Good for a laugh, though, thank you.

[Felt 35]

Ah....Great nobody spotted my irony, all good then.

[JSixpack]

None of the above would point to a city in decline as far as any city administration would read it – (and I am sure these are some of the yardsticks they would use to determine that !!), or any investor for that matter, not to a realist anyway.

Very true. A city in decline looks, on the contrary, like this:

http://www.time.com/...1882089,00.html

and

So what's next for Pattaya? In the near future, the new overpass, the new Tukcom, new IT complex at the old X-Zyte, and supposedly a Maboonkrong. There've been rumors of a Robinson's. A number of new condo developments, such as Zire at Wong Amart. Traffic and parking will get worse and worse, partly a reason for more development in Jomtien. Russian language study will become compulsory in all local public schools. (Just joking, panty twisters.)

The big breakthrough, maybe in the next 10 years, will be action to alleviate the traffic problems: a real bus service and metered taxis--for a start. That said, the traffic problems will never entirely go away, just as BTS and MRT haven't put an end to Bangkok traffic problems.

Seems to me no reason that Pattaya can't just continue expanding indefinitely. Honolulu was once the size of Pattaya; it doesn't yet need "rejuvenation." I could see a future metropolis stretching from Siricha to Sattahip. Got the port at Laem Chabang, got the airport road, got U-Tapao, got room for more industrial estates and housing. What's needed is a high speed rail link from Bangkok that would eventually go through to Rayong.

Well, I'm about done with this particular DYING PATTAYA thread till it reboots in a few months. OP, there's your future for the next 50 years or so. Sorry to disappoint all you naysayers.

[Darrel]

Anybody who knows Pattaya (and Thailand, and Thais) would realize the absurdity of that assertion, but in any event those old issues of the Pattaya Mail will bear witness.

Not really. Go back 25 - 30 years and there was hardly any of the rather vicious crime that goes on these days. You didnt get mugged by hookers on Beach Rd at night ( though there were plenty of hookers there), and even hotel robberies were of the sleight of hand type and not the date-rape drug type. No Pattaya Flyers, and precious few tales of marriage followed by rapid loss of all worldly goods. No traffic jams, no police scamming farang motorbike drivers for 100B.

And Pattaya Mail didnt even exist, nor did the estate agents, the property developers, the expat families and the myriad farangs running more or less illegal businesses (apart from the classic bars/hotels, of course).

All in all it was one hell of a lot nicer and much more fun then, and I'm very glad that I'm now old and so was able to experience it at the time. I would willingly forego today's "advantages" (which when you get right down to it are limited to broadband internet, cable TV and Tesco) to go back to how it was 25 years ago.

But it's not going to happen.

[JSixpack]

Anybody who knows Pattaya (and Thailand, and Thais) would realize the absurdity of that assertion, but in any event those old issues of the Pattaya Mail will bear witness.

Not really. Go back 25 - 30 years and there was hardly any of the rather vicious crime that goes on these days. You didnt get mugged by hookers on Beach Rd at night ( though there were plenty of hookers there), and even hotel robberies were of the sleight of hand type and not the date-rape drug type. No Pattaya Flyers, and precious few tales of marriage followed by rapid loss of all worldly goods. No traffic jams, no police scamming farang motorbike drivers for 100B.

And Pattaya Mail didnt even exist, nor did the estate agents, the property developers, the expat families and the myriad farangs running more or less illegal businesses (apart from the classic bars/hotels, of course).

All in all it was one hell of a lot nicer and much more fun then, and I'm very glad that I'm now old and so was able to experience it at the time. I would willingly forego today's "advantages" (which when you get right down to it are limited to broadband internet, cable TV and Tesco) to go back to how it was 25 years ago.

But it's not going to happen.

Why stop at 30 years? Can't we just go back, say, 100 years ago when Darrel didn't exist? And there was no traffic whatsoever or any humans in Pattaya to mess up things for the monkeys, snakes and lizards? Crime will be less with fewer people of course. PTY is vast now compared to the time to which you refer. Still, you're not claiming it was crime-free. And there was probably a lot of Thai-on-Thai that you couldn't or didn't find out about.

We can always find a time when something or another didn't exist. If you loved primitive PTY so much, move to Ban Chang.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. I just happen to enjoy much more about modern PTY than internet, cable TV and Tesco. Nor do I or anyone claim PTY is perfect. However, the horrors you cite, excluding traffic, never affect me personally, though I did get caught in a little police parking scam once, about 10 years ago. Yeah, cost me 200 baht.

Seems to me that the DYING PATTAYA threads really got started with the construction of Central. Some beer bars were displaced, and that was the beginning of the end. Before, we just had informal surveys in which bar owners opined on the strength or lack thereof of high season. Yet bar owners are notorious for poor mouthing anyway, so usually each season was worse than that preceding.

[Ulysses G.]

I would willingly forego today's "advantages" (which when you get right down to it are limited to broadband internet, cable TV and Tesco) to go back to how it was 25 years ago.

The foreign food is a heck of a lot better.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Anybody who knows Pattaya (and Thailand, and Thais) would realize the absurdity of that assertion, but in any event those old issues of the Pattaya Mail will bear witness.

Not really. Go back 25 - 30 years and there was hardly any of the rather vicious crime that goes on these days. You didnt get mugged by hookers on Beach Rd at night ( though there were plenty of hookers there), and even hotel robberies were of the sleight of hand type and not the date-rape drug type. No Pattaya Flyers, and precious few tales of marriage followed by rapid loss of all worldly goods. No traffic jams, no police scamming farang motorbike drivers for 100B.

And Pattaya Mail didnt even exist, nor did the estate agents, the property developers, the expat families and the myriad farangs running more or less illegal businesses (apart from the classic bars/hotels, of course).

All in all it was one hell of a lot nicer and much more fun then, and I'm very glad that I'm now old and so was able to experience it at the time. I would willingly forego today's "advantages" (which when you get right down to it are limited to broadband internet, cable TV and Tesco) to go back to how it was 25 years ago.

But it's not going to happen.

All true....and the destructive development--fueled by an all growth is good model--will continue along with the negative consequences. I almost put some big money in Jomtien. Now I am so happy I did not do that. There are many people who are stuck here and can't get out. I am not one of them.

[bangkokburning]

Pattaya many,many years ago used to be a great place to hole up for the low season. The place was vacant, city life almost bordered on village life. The bars were empty and you knew all the girls that lived on your soi. The women that stayed thru the low season stayed year after year and you had aquiantences and loads of fun. It was easy to avoid any nonsense still about but walking circuitious routes from A to B and thus avoiding construction, traffic and tourist nonsense. Pattaya still had a bit of a beach but a 10B ride got you to Jomtien for the day or with a friend off down to Ban Sare. USD was 40/1 and life was good. Thai's treated local guys with far more respect, especially in your regular eating stalls and hawkers. As the years wore on it was odd to find new girls wandering into town and treating me as a tourist, they were the new arrival. I'd been an on/off fixture for years.

The last time I was there visiting friends I noticed lots of small and well established business had folded. Hotel prices were very poor value.

I feel sorry for package tourists who book thinking Pattaya BEACH actually has - a beach.

I had commented for years about Pattayas decline and everyone scoffed. It just gets worse and worse. Pakistani's in their pajama's on Beach road approaching raw looking hookers atempting to paw them rather than getting a room, hey its free. Priceless.

[bangkokburning]

I would very much agree - Pattaya is not in decline, rather it is morhing into a big, banal and hum-drum Thai city that happens to be on the water. The seediness is on its way out, families on their way in. A new set of suckers - Westerners out, Russians and Easterners in.

We can question what is has become - but it is not in decline (despite condo glut).

Pattaya will continue to draw in the sex tourists - but this activities are very contained. Especially so for first time or occassional "sex tourist". Walking street last time I was there (years ago) was practically family friendly.