Increase In The Cost Of Rental Housing In Chiang Mai

[sanukcode]

TL;DR - I am moving out of my current house and my landlord will charge 40% more when we move out. The cost of renting a home in Chiang Mai seems to have gone up about this much all over the city since 2008-2009. Has this been your experience? What are you paying for rent and where do you live?

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Only moved here in (late) 2008, so I'm not one of the geezers that's been here since a pound brought 65 baht and a dollar 45.

Still, it seems like there has been a fairly dramatic increase in the cost of rental housing since 2008. I remember seeing lots of decent fully furnished, 2-3 bedroom homes with A/C, kitchen etc for between 6-9k in the cheaper areas (Nong Hoi, Sankampaeng, San Sai, Doi Saket, Hang Dong) and 10-15k in the more expensive areas (CMU / Nimmen, in the city, Chang Klan).

Two years ago, my girlfriend and I rented a house in San Sai near Roamchok plaza. It is a large 4 bedroom home, fully furnished, 4 ac, 42 inch TV, big western style kitchen and so on for 10k baht / month. Back in November of last year, I took a new job out in Sutthep near Wat Umong with a German company. The commute is about 40 minutes each way, so we are trying to find something a bit closer to the office.

My girlfriend and I have been looking for a new place to rent for almost two months now, with no luck finding something for less than 12k (2 bedrooms is enough, we would accept a signifigant downgrade from our current place considering we are looking over around CMU (Jed Yord, Huay Kaow, Sutthep / Umong - even as far north as Fa Ham or southern parts of Mae Rim).

Seems like almost everything over there with a kitchen, at least one air conditioning and a bit of furniture is 15k and up.

I didn't think much of it at first - like I said, we are looking in the more expensive parts of town - but I found out from my landlord that she planned to raise the rent on our current place to 16-17k after we move out...

So my house out in Sansai has appreciated about 40% in two years (at least in the eyes of my landlord) - and it seems like prices out in Sutthep and around CMU have as well. I have a friend who rented a town home off huay kaow in 2008 for 7500. His neighbor just moved out and the landlord wants 12k for the place (No AC, horrible furniture, empty kitchen with no stove, appliances, etc). A somewhat larger town home in the same neighborhood is also for rent, for 20k (some furniture and A/C).

Anyone else having similar experiences right now? Is it from the floods and migration of BKK people up this way or what?

Where do you live and what are you paying for rent?

If you made it this far, thanks for reading!

[Ulysses G.]

It seems to me that places with a Western kitchen have always been expensive. The places that you are talking about from a few years ago seem amazingly cheap to me, but I have not looked at renting houses for quite a few years.

[el jefe]

My house in the Nimmanhaemin area has gone up by only about 15% in the last 5 years. But my rent started out much higher than the prices you're quoting.

[elektrified]

IMHO rents are the one and only thing that have remained stable in the last 5 years. There is more suppy than demand. Some landlords may raise the rents but that doesn't mean they will actually get the higher rents. Many people charge high rents and the homes/condos stay vacant forever. I think you just need to keep looking. Believe me there are good deals out there. I often sumble upon them by chance and I'm not looking to move - just yet. And rents can be negotiated...

About a year ago a lot of low-class, white trash started showing up in droves in the area of Sansai where I live and renting the homes. Many of the landlords raised the rents and they moved out thank God. I woud say that 90% of those places are still vacant a year later.

[ludditeman]

House rentals are cheaper than ever before.

You are either looking for something unusual or looking like a particularly daft foreign tourist.

[Hooters]

This is no surprise. Chang mai is constantly being touted as the best 'cheapest' place in the world to live by international tourist mags and surveys. So now you have everyone wanting to live there = price inc.

Im going there myself next week to see what all the fuss is about

[sanukcode]

It seems to me that places with a Western kitchen have always been expensive. The places that you are talking about from a few years ago seem amazingly cheap to me, but I have not looked at renting houses for quite a few years.

To be fair, our kitchen isn't 100% western. Nice tile and Thai style built in cabinetry with a build in range, but no oven, dishwasher, etc. No hot water in the kitchen either. But yeah, places with a full western kitchen have always been quite expensive, and rightly so I think. Quite a rare thing to have.

My house in the Nimmanhaemin area has gone up by only about 15% in the last 5 years. But my rent started out much higher than the prices you're quoting.

I was worried this might be the case... it might just be that I'm too cheap. We spent nearly 6 weeks house hunting last time before we found the steal that we have now. Thinking back, I do remember some houses being priced much higher, but the "deals" were in the prices I quoted. These are mostly middle class homes in older neighborhoods with wooden Thai style furniture, a few AC units and a semi-western kitchen like what we have now.

Seems like the prices on these budget middle class homes have gone up quite a bit as well though.

[worgeordie]

Well the houses we rent out have not risen in last 7 years,

bought houses at good price and getting return of 10%

so its better than the banks and houses have increased

in value by 40/50% , so I am happy.

Too many houses for rent,not enough tenants, Bht too strong

thats why cannot put up rents, and also not greedy.

regards Worgeordie

[sanukcode]

There is more suppy than demand.

Even after the steady migration of BKK people north (even before the floods)? Seeing an awful lot of Bangkok license plates and a lot more traffic these days than I did back in 2008... There might still be more supply than demand but I feel like that is changing...

About a year ago a lot of low-class, white trash started showing up in droves in the area of Sansai where I live and renting the homes. Many of the landlords raised the rents and they moved out thank God. I woud say that 90% of those places are still vacant a year later.

I noticed the same... can't say I miss them.

[sanukcode]

Well the houses we rent out have not risen in last 7 years,

bought houses at good price and getting return of 10%

so its better than the banks and houses have increased

in value by 40/50% , so I am happy.

Too many houses for rent,not enough tenants, Bht too strong

thats why cannot put up rents, and also not greedy.

regards Worgeordie

Thanks for this Worgeordie - good to hear the landlord's side of it.

[Dean1953]

I own a large house on one rai just outside of Chiang Mai and have had it listed with several rental sites, including Thai Visa, since my family moved to the U.S. over three years ago. I've had probably 20 inquires in that time, including from someone moving from the U.S. and would take care of house (was a carpenter) in exchange for free rent, but no firm long term rentals. I advertise it for 20,000 baht and can (but would prefer not to) let it sit, paying my wife's friend 6,000 baht per month to clean the inside, when needed, and take care of the grass and water the plants/trees (I did put in an underground sprinkler that covers 80% of the land). I don't consider a rent in the mid $600 as being excessive for a teak house in a quiet area with a large, walled in area. Obviously, since it is outside of the city, I get no walk by people that would like to rent it. I could put in a more western style kitchen (oven, dishwasher and hot water) and probably will before we move back, as my wife now likes a western kitchen (it took her almost three years to use the dishwasher here). I did have a German that wanted a long term rental but wanted me to knock a hole in the concrete wall between one of the bedrooms and one of the bathrooms, for his elderly father. That request was the deal breaker. I'll continue to list it but I'm not sure that I would want the type of person that wants it for a steal and then worrying about the condition of the house (it is mainly teak and cost 4.2 million baht to build when the dollar was 40-1) or the yard (which I personally have put a lot of time and effort into ).

[alfieconn]

About a year ago a lot of low-class, white trash started showing up in droves in the area of Sansai

Can you elaborate a bit more on these type of people and perhaps explain how you differentiate between them and high class non-white trash as i'm wondering which category i fall in

[amexpat]

houses have increased in value by 40/50% , so I am happy.

Get back to us when they are sold and the check clears your bank.

[T_Dog]

Well the houses we rent out have not risen in last 7 years,

bought houses at good price and getting return of 10%

so its better than the banks and houses have increased

in value by 40/50% , so I am happy.

Too many houses for rent,not enough tenants, Bht too strong

thats why cannot put up rents, and also not greedy.

regards Worgeordie

The rental house availability is indeed very high right now. Last two houses we rented for 80% of asking rate and a friend has been able to reduce his rent each of three years running now. Sanukcode...just keep looking until you find a landlord willing to negotiate. If they are eager to get you as a tenant, they will be helpful later on. An unoccupied house doesn't provide much income to a land owner. Some desired areas like Nimenhemin are tougher, but you should be able to bargain just about everywhere else.

[kjhbigv]

Jesus, the GF will do it for 4k!

"paying my wife's friend 6,000 baht per month to clean the inside, when needed, and take care of the grass and water the plants/trees"

[L&J]

I kept a copy of one of the tourist magazines from when we first visited Chiang Mai. In it there are real estate advertisements

and the cost of rental properities is almost exactly what they are today. Know the baht has fluctuated in value over the years

but the prices in baht seem almost the same as they were in 1989.

[Fishenough]

Always surprised at the variety of rental rates people pay since moving to CM. If the landlord snags a high rental rate, good for them. And if the tenant negotiates a low rate then good for them.

Met missionaries that have paid 45,000 b for a house that'd have guessed was expensive at 25,000 b or less. A couple of regular ThaiVisa posters moved out of there houses due to increasing rents by a couple thousand baht, and the new tenants managed to get on the hook for double the rent previous rent.

Seem to know more stories of the 'good deal'. Like several down right western style mansions, either right on the river or 30 mins from the town center, that were rented for, and below, 25,000 b a month. One friend just rented a (empty) upscale guest house set up, with 5 rooms, paying the same for 2 months what my family pays for a weekend in a similar sized house (on the beach, but in March) in Canada. Our first house of 2.5 years we rented because I made a low offer that was accepted, and felt we couldn't back away from the accepted offer.

With that Thai style kitchen we added a stove, portable counter space and other items to it making it a very acceptable western kitchen - at a cost similar the difference of a couple months higher rent for the places with a full western kitchen.

[hellodolly]

About a year ago a lot of low-class, white trash started showing up in droves in the area of Sansai

Can you elaborate a bit more on these type of people and perhaps explain how you differentiate between them and high class non-white trash as i'm wondering which category i fall in

He is definitely not the kind of person I would choose for a neighbor. Probably easy to spot. You know nose in the air to good for others.

[worgeordie]

houses have increased in value by 40/50% , so I am happy.

Get back to us when they are sold and the check clears your bank.

Now why would I want to sell them ?put money in the bank and get 2/3%, that would not be sensible,right, regards Worgeordie

[Ulysses G.]

About a year ago a lot of low-class, white trash started showing up in droves in the area of Sansai where I live and renting the homes. Many of the landlords raised the rents and they moved out thank God.

We moved back to the area around Veerachai Court where we are welcome.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I did have a German that wanted a long term rental but wanted me to knock a hole in the concrete wall between one of the bedrooms and one of the bathrooms, for his elderly father. That request was the deal breaker.

Sounds like a sensible thing to do anyway, especially if he wanted to pay for that work? Farangs like 'ensuite' bathrooms even if that means two doors in the bathroom. 'Elderly father' also sounds good, I hear that as 'long term'. I looked at a house recently and it has a teeny-tiny bathroom upstairs, with useless empty space right next to it, followed by the master bedroom wall. That just begs at being used as a nice big bathroom including an internal door to the main bedroom.

Anyway, "rents". Yes I can't see a whole lot of increase in rent, but perhaps I do see a bigger variation in rents these days. I see people renting for 25K (and actually getting it) for furnished homes where they provide some additional services that newbies would appreciate, such as making sure that phone and internet work when they walk in the door. But the cheapie completely empty homes for 5-6K are also still around.

If I were to rent out something then the 'value-add' region seems to be where it's at, especially when combined with a very good location that isn't miles our of town in Mae Rimbabwe. Then offer something that includes Internet and a dreambox, no hassles on where to go pay for water and electricity, and of course a 'western kitchen'. (Western kitchen to be honest isn't _that_ major an investment.. Can be a bar-style with a nice granite slab on top, built in gas or electric stove and a bunch of wooden cabinets. I don't think it means that there absolutely needs to be a full size oven and dishwasher. The stuff below the counter top can be brick & cement, as long as the outside finish isn't some of that horrible bathroom tile. But anyway, when 'looking nice' and in a location that wouldn't require a car or motorbike to get to places, you bet that will cost 15K to rent. (I think if you go much higher it may be 'worth it' in terms of what you offer for the price, but you just run into hard budget limits of most people.) Even right now 15K is 300 GBP, under 500 USD; I think if people can't afford that for rent then you don't want them as renters.

[ludditeman]

I own a large house on one rai just outside of Chiang Mai and have had it listed with several rental sites, including Thai Visa, since my family moved to the U.S. over three years ago. I've had probably 20 inquires in that time, including from someone moving from the U.S. and would take care of house (was a carpenter) in exchange for free rent, but no firm long term rentals. I advertise it for 20,000 baht and can (but would prefer not to) let it sit, paying my wife's friend 6,000 baht per month to clean the inside, when needed, and take care of the grass and water the plants/trees (I did put in an underground sprinkler that covers 80% of the land). I don't consider a rent in the mid $600 as being excessive for a teak house in a quiet area with a large, walled in area. Obviously, since it is outside of the city, I get no walk by people that would like to rent it. I could put in a more western style kitchen (oven, dishwasher and hot water) and probably will before we move back, as my wife now likes a western kitchen (it took her almost three years to use the dishwasher here). I did have a German that wanted a long term rental but wanted me to knock a hole in the concrete wall between one of the bedrooms and one of the bathrooms, for his elderly father. That request was the deal breaker. I'll continue to list it but I'm not sure that I would want the type of person that wants it for a steal and then worrying about the condition of the house (it is mainly teak and cost 4.2 million baht to build when the dollar was 40-1) or the yard (which I personally have put a lot of time and effort into ).

This is a great example of the foolishness of some (potential) landlords.

Landlord wants 20k, renter will only pay 10k, landlord holds out for 3 years while paying 6k extra to maintain the house.

Dean, rent it for 10k, renter maintains, saving you 6k ....... effectively you would be getting 16k which is better than nothing.

Plenty of house rentals right in CM for 6k.

[Fishenough]

I own a large house on one rai just outside of Chiang Mai and have had it listed with several rental sites, including Thai Visa, since my family moved to the U.S. over three years ago. I've had probably 20 inquires in that time, including from someone moving from the U.S. and would take care of house (was a carpenter) in exchange for free rent, but no firm long term rentals. I advertise it for 20,000 baht and can (but would prefer not to) let it sit, paying my wife's friend 6,000 baht per month to clean the inside, when needed, and take care of the grass and water the plants/trees (I did put in an underground sprinkler that covers 80% of the land). I don't consider a rent in the mid $600 as being excessive for a teak house in a quiet area with a large, walled in area. Obviously, since it is outside of the city, I get no walk by people that would like to rent it. I could put in a more western style kitchen (oven, dishwasher and hot water) and probably will before we move back, as my wife now likes a western kitchen (it took her almost three years to use the dishwasher here). I did have a German that wanted a long term rental but wanted me to knock a hole in the concrete wall between one of the bedrooms and one of the bathrooms, for his elderly father. That request was the deal breaker. I'll continue to list it but I'm not sure that I would want the type of person that wants it for a steal and then worrying about the condition of the house (it is mainly teak and cost 4.2 million baht to build when the dollar was 40-1) or the yard (which I personally have put a lot of time and effort into ).

This is a great example of the foolishness of some (potential) landlords.

Landlord wants 20k, renter will only pay 10k, landlord holds out for 3 years while paying 6k extra to maintain the house.

Dean, rent it for 10k, renter maintains, saving you 6k ....... effectively you would be getting 16k which is better than nothing.

Plenty of house rentals right in CM for 6k.

Yes getting trouble free renters that take care of the house as if it was theirs is no problem what so ever, and commonly provides years of head ache free tenant interactions and profitable near endless rental revenue.

Don't forget the formula that where the higher the rent, the more trouble free your life will be as a landlord.

[Paagai]

The people we rent from have many properties in Chang Puek area, all rented to Farangs. They did adjust the prices upwards four/five years ago when long term residents moved on or died (some had been renting ten plus years...). Since then they haven't increased, I know several other tenants and they're still paying about the same. The previous house I rented is still going for the same money now as it was five years ago and it's only recently they've managed to fill all their properties.

That said, property is their family business and they run it as such, they don't rent too cheaply, but won't leave a place empty for months for the sake of not cutting a deal. I think the erratic pricing is more from people who own one or two properties and think they can price above the market, rather than those who do it as a long term business.

The construction and sale price of shop houses in this part of town has shot through the roof. Many seem to get rented for a few months, the business folds and they then stand empty with a rent/sell sign for ages and ages. I don't get it, but they keep building them.

My assumption would be some rents will have taken a short term opportunistic hike because of people escaping the floods in BKK and high season demand. Wait until after Songkran to see where prices really stablise!

[Semper]

Met missionaries that have paid 45,000 b for a house that'd have guessed was expensive at 25,000 b or less. A couple of regular ThaiVisa posters moved out of there houses due to increasing rents by a couple thousand baht, and the new tenants managed to get on the hook for double the rent previous rent.

My guess is that the missionaries don't pay the rent out of their own pockets.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Met missionaries that have paid 45,000 b for a house that'd have guessed was expensive at 25,000 b or less. A couple of regular ThaiVisa posters moved out of there houses due to increasing rents by a couple thousand baht, and the new tenants managed to get on the hook for double the rent previous rent.

My guess is that the missionaries don't pay the rent out of their own pockets.

... and that there is an additional creative money arrangement going on, with the property being owned by a Christian person or organization.

[uptheos]

Even right now 15K is 300 GBP, under 500 USD; I think if people can't afford that for rent then you don't want them as renters.

I don't go along with that, a decent single guy or gal, might not want or need three bedrooms etc, and would rather settle for a small tidy house with a bit of a garden, which can be found for 5-6,000. I don't quite see the point in building or renting a palatial palace, unless you plan to copy Hugh Heffner.

[ludditeman]

Even right now 15K is 300 GBP, under 500 USD; I think if people can't afford that for rent then you don't want them as renters.

I don't go along with that, a decent single guy or gal, might not want or need three bedrooms etc, and would rather settle for a small tidy house with a bit of a garden, which can be found for 5-6,000. I don't quite see the point in building or renting a palatial palace, unless you plan to copy Hugh Heffner.

I know many Thais paying less than 2k for shopfronts and 1 bedroom houses.

The landlords seem to think they are OK as tenants.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Even right now 15K is 300 GBP, under 500 USD; I think if people can't afford that for rent then you don't want them as renters.

I don't go along with that, a decent single guy or gal, might not want or need three bedrooms etc, and would rather settle for a small tidy house with a bit of a garden, which can be found for 5-6,000.

Sure, but those might want to stay close to town or in town / in a lively area. That costs money too.

[Dean1953]

I own a large house on one rai just outside of Chiang Mai and have had it listed with several rental sites, including Thai Visa, since my family moved to the U.S. over three years ago. I've had probably 20 inquires in that time, including from someone moving from the U.S. and would take care of house (was a carpenter) in exchange for free rent, but no firm long term rentals. I advertise it for 20,000 baht and can (but would prefer not to) let it sit, paying my wife's friend 6,000 baht per month to clean the inside, when needed, and take care of the grass and water the plants/trees (I did put in an underground sprinkler that covers 80% of the land). I don't consider a rent in the mid $600 as being excessive for a teak house in a quiet area with a large, walled in area. Obviously, since it is outside of the city, I get no walk by people that would like to rent it. I could put in a more western style kitchen (oven, dishwasher and hot water) and probably will before we move back, as my wife now likes a western kitchen (it took her almost three years to use the dishwasher here). I did have a German that wanted a long term rental but wanted me to knock a hole in the concrete wall between one of the bedrooms and one of the bathrooms, for his elderly father. That request was the deal breaker. I'll continue to list it but I'm not sure that I would want the type of person that wants it for a steal and then worrying about the condition of the house (it is mainly teak and cost 4.2 million baht to build when the dollar was 40-1) or the yard (which I personally have put a lot of time and effort into ).

This is a great example of the foolishness of some (potential) landlords.

Landlord wants 20k, renter will only pay 10k, landlord holds out for 3 years while paying 6k extra to maintain the house.

Dean, rent it for 10k, renter maintains, saving you 6k ....... effectively you would be getting 16k which is better than nothing.

Plenty of house rentals right in CM for 6k.

It depends on whether I could trust the renter to maintain the property. I am concerned about the interior, as it is teak and I don't want to come to LOS sometime and see the inside painted white (or a lot of hole in the walls). But my main concern is the outside. I had around 10 trees die the hot season before last because the previous lady/friend that I had taking care of the house refused to use the automatic sprinkler system because of the water costs (as I was paying it, it shouldn't have made any difference). As she had to leave town for several weeks then, noting was watered. She also didn't inform me that one of my cinder block walls on the land's perimeter was leaning out 3 inches. The owner of the adjoining property does not want anything on his property that would prop up the wall, so I will have it re-built when it collapses. I've had several people mentioning to me that 120,000 baht a year is better than nothing a year, which is what I'm making now. Fortunately, my wife pays the 6,000 baht a month to her friend (she can't stand my thai lady friend and looked for any excuse to get her out of out property), so that isn't money out of my pocket. Concerning cutting a mew passageway to one of the bedrooms to the bathroom, I was told that it would possibly cause major damage to the surrounding concrete. In any event, before I could come to some sort of negotiations with the German, his father took a turn for the worse and he ended up staying in Germany.