Gay Photo Contest Sparks Controversy

[Lite Beer]

Gay Photo Contest Sparks Controversy

BANGKOK: Many would say Thailand is one of most accepting countries with it comes to homosexuality. Not only are we famous for our Tiffany-like shows and gay pride activities, society in general seems to be more open to the less traditional genders. However, when it comes to people in uniform, we're just like any other country. The “All for Men” fan page on Facebook recently organized a photo contest to celebrate upcoming Valentine's Day in style. The page administrator, Pattanasak Monkata, is encouraging fans to post romantic pictures themselves and their boyfriends on the fan page. Whichever picture receives the most “Likes” wins the grand prize.

More than 50 couples have participated so far and the contest has been deemed by most as advocating acceptance of a third gender. However, things got rather heated after some couples posted racy kissing pictures. The situation was further aggravated when men in uniform sent their own pictures. The most controversial one shows an army soldier piggy backing on his boyfriend while still in uniform.

Although there has not been any official comment from officials, many in the cyber world have expressed dissatisfaction at what they feel to be inappropriate.

The contest organizer says he's not worried about their concerns and will continue with the activity. The couple with the most “Likes” by the end of this month wins a romantic getaway to Khao Yai.

The All for Men fan page has more than 2,000 fans and is known to represent part of the male gay online community.

Translated from www.thairath.co.th

-- Tan Network 2012-01-26

[Jingthing]

Many would say Thailand is one of most accepting countries with it comes to homosexuality. Not only are we famous for our Tiffany-like shows and gay pride activities, society in general seems to be more open to the less traditional genders.

Not in any way imaginable is Thailand famous for its gay pride activities! Again, a typical confusion about tolerance for transgender people role playing in a socially limited number of roles (Tiffanys drag shows) rather than REAL equal civil rights for sexual minorities, such as legal gay marriage, etc. It is really bizarre how so many people think transgender is the same thing as homosexuality. Edited January 26, 2012 by Jingthing

[endure]

What's the URL?

[Jingthing]

What's the URL?

Good question. I can't find it but I'm not on facebook.

Anyway, here are some nice pictures of the alleged "controversy":

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2012/01/26/thai-gay-valentine-kiss-contest-on-facebook-criticized/

[endure]

What's the URL?

Good question. I can't find it but I'm not on facebook.

Anyway, here are some nice pictures of the alleged "controversy":

http://www.pattayada...ook-criticized/

I'm always up for a Thai soldier...

[Ijustwannateach]

This highlights one of the cracks in what is often misperceived as Thai 'acceptance' of homosexuality. Though homophobia is virtually non-existent, homosexual people are expected to stay in their place as hairdressers, queenie entertainers, comedians, and drama queens. The existence of apparently non-conformist, even 'normal'-appearing role models as gay ruffles conventions (which is the real offense here, not the homosexuality per se).

The more sexualised pictures would be considered problematic even in a straight context, as recent self-censorship of some TV material demonstrates.

[Jingthing]

Very well said, Teacher.

[Suradit69]

Though homophobia is virtually non-existent, homosexual people are expected to stay in their place as hairdressers, queenie entertainers, comedians, and drama queens.

While a valid point to some extent, it's a bit of an over-generalization. Accepting that advancement depends to a degree on conformity, whether the individual is gay or straight, it's not that difficult to find gays in places like Immigrations, hospitals, educational institutions, business etc.

One of the purposes of wearing a uniform, for example in the police/Immigrations, is to achieve uniformity. To a lesser extent the same is true of wearing a lab coat or business suit or academic robes. Many gay people manage that level of conformity in the workplace in terms of the their appearance & behavior, and unless your gaydar in operating their gayness is not in-your-face obvious.

If someone insists on behaving flamboyantly gay or flamboyant anything else, and finds conformity difficult, it's not likely he will do well in the workplace unless being flamboyant is a criteris for advancement.

Not saying that Thailand is all that wonderful for gay Thais, but life in general for Thais who were not born into wealthy, influential families isn't all that easy regardless of sexual orientation.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Suradit69

[Ijustwannateach]

^I thought it was implied- obviously there are gays in all positions in every walk of life here in Thailand (including, most assuredly, the military, police, immigration, office jobs, etc.)- but if they want to be out or 'obvious' there are only a few accepted social roles for them (as 'recognised' gays).

[Suradit69]

^I thought it was implied- obviously there are gays in all positions in every walk of life here in Thailand (including, most assuredly, the military, police, immigration, office jobs, etc.)- but if they want to be out or 'obvious' there are only a few accepted social roles for them (as 'recognised' gays).

Recognized by whom?

Nonprofessional football players have work everywhere, but they don't arrive at work bouncing a football even though their collegues probably are aware of their skills. Christians and Muslims work in jobs everywhere, but aren't expected to make the sign of the cross all day long or wear a burkha. If you want to make being gay your most important characteristic, then you probably haven't much else to offer to whoever is employing you.

Being "out" versus being "in the closet," is not the same as making your sexual identity a big issue or shoving it down peoples' throats. Certainly being out and being obvious aren't the same.

And again, I'm not saying there's no prejudice. We all know it exists to lesser or greater degrees everywhere, but if you want employment and if you want to advance in your employment, in Thailand or anywhere else, then you have to put your skills and performance first. That doesn't mean you're denying who you are, but rather that if you don't want your gayness to be an issue then you shouldn't make it into an issue by performing to some negative stereotype..

Saying that Thais encounter prejudice, as we all have, is not the same as saying

homosexual people are expected to stay in their place as hairdressers, queenie entertainers, comedians, and drama queens.

.

And, being homosexual doesn't mean you have to make a production out of it any more than being straight means you have to dress badly, fart loudly or grope women. Stereotypical behavior shouldn't define anyone and behaving in a certain way to "please the boss" is not something only gays are subjected to.

It's a very easy out to claim you didn't get a job or weren't promoted because you're gay or a women or a Muslim. Even when it's true, whining about it doesn't make you more employable.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Suradit69

[Ijustwannateach]

^Somehow I don't think we're on the same wavelength here, and we're not going to make this a discussion of anyone's gripes against women, Muslims, etc. I'm saying that socially, it isn't 'done' to be out unless you are in certain limited contexts publicly. I'm not saying that gay people aren't around, or that people in general aren't aware that gay people are around, or that people run into blatant mistrust or disrespect in their work as a result of being gay. I'm saying that it isn't socially acceptable for people in certain positions or with certain expectations to simply come out- never mind behave flamboyantly.

To try to keep things on the topic, in this case soldiers (who have a certain set of social expectations and roles) are putting pictures of themselves revealing themselves to be gay publicly. This is a big faux pas. It is not that the reaction is homophobic- of course some soldiers are gay. But they are not supposed to bring that into their public social roles as soldiers. That's the topic of the thread, and that's what I'm talking about. You may be talking about something else, in which case why are you responding to me?

[onthemoon]

May I kindly add that I know people in all walks of life that are known to be gay. I'm in business, and the gay bankers, managers at large Thai companies, or the cashier at BigC come to mind. I have customers who are gay, and I have suppliers who are gay. Alas, it does not matter whether they are gay or straight, what matters is their product, presentation and performance.

They are not flamboyant in the sense of being provocative, but they are also not ashamed of who they are. Thailand is the most tolerant country I know in this respect, and I have lived in several countries.

That said, I live in Bangkok, where things might be easier than in the provinces. Also, there certainly are Thai that are intolerant.

[Ijustwannateach]

^Of course. Most Thais personally are exactly as you describe. But the mainstream cultural monolith has a number of important myths. To understand the myths, you have to look at the messages in the mainstream media sources, like news, TV, movies, and other media.

The most 'normal' gays we know are typically absent. You get the obvious types and the loudmouths and the kathoeys and the fashion queens- being 'out'. Of course, a number of the actors are obviously gay- but they all deny it, which is currently culturally 'enough' to stay with the program. One would think that never in the history of Thailand had two gay men kissed each other, based on mainstream film (granted, it took English language cinema a certain amount of time to deal with this, too). Gays are stereotypical, says mainstream culture.

The faux pas of the soldiers wasn't that Thai people don't know that soldiers can be gay. The faux pas of the soldiers was that the Thai cultural monolith won't tolerate the public acknowledgement of this fact. This is one of the very many ways that the internet threatens the public monolith of 'Thainess'.

[onthemoon]

Well yes, IJWT, but the fact is that this contest is now in the press, and people do submit their pictures and are not afraid of them being published, so we see something is changing.

You are describing a very traditional way of Thais dealing with homosexuality, but in the 21st century, things are changing. Ten years ago, people would not have submitted these pictures but today they do.

Edited January 29, 2012 by onthemoon

[Ijustwannateach]

That's also true, that things are changing- but the fact that this is reported as a 'controversy' (also in the press) shows that opinions are, in fact, divided. I have a feeling that if we were talking 'majority rule' it wouldn't be a big deal for most actual Thai people. But power is not evenly divided, either.

I'm not saying those soldiers shouldn't have done what they did, but what they did still counts as 'brave' for me because there is some risk because of the nature of the 'old school' in charge of most things here.

Guess I'm just hanging out in the grey area where I feel the reality is- Thailand is not a 'gay paradise', nor is it as hellishly homophobic as some other countries.

[endure]

Anyone found the Facebook URL yet?

[onthemoon]

That's also true, that things are changing- but the fact that this is reported as a 'controversy' (also in the press) shows that opinions are, in fact, divided. I have a feeling that if we were talking 'majority rule' it wouldn't be a big deal for most actual Thai people. But power is not evenly divided, either.

I'm not saying those soldiers shouldn't have done what they did, but what they did still counts as 'brave' for me because there is some risk because of the nature of the 'old school' in charge of most things here.

Guess I'm just hanging out in the grey area where I feel the reality is- Thailand is not a 'gay paradise', nor is it as hellishly homophobic as some other countries.

I joined a Gay Pride march in uniform when I was a soldier in my European home country in the early 1980s. I think apart from the military itself, nobody noticed. That would have been very different 10 or 20 years earlier. I think these soldiers in the contest are trying to change something, and I applaud them. And I also think they would not have done that 10 or 20 years ago, so something has already changed.

By the way, I find some of the pics cute, but some others (like people in bed, deep-kissing) inappropriate. Maybe those were the ones sparking controversy, not the fact that these are gay couples in general. These pics would have sparked controversy even if they were straight couples, I'd say.

[attrayant]

Anyone found the Facebook URL yet?

http://www.facebook.com/allformenmodel

I've looked almost of the thumbnails and haven't seen anything even mildly controversial, but then again I'm American.

[onthemoon]

Anyone found the Facebook URL yet?

http://www.facebook.com/allformenmodel

I've looked almost of the thumbnails and haven't seen anything even mildly controversial, but then again I'm American.

Not on that facebook site, I agree. There were some pictures in the newspaper article linked earlier in this thread that could easily be considered controversial.