Russians Trapped In Pattaya Following Collapse Of Tour Company

[Estrada]

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

If you were the hotel owner and someone didn't pay his bill, what would you do?

I can remember when the owner of the hotel owed money to the suppliers involved in the construction of the Ambassador Hotel Jomtien. He refused to pay also!

Edited January 31, 2012 by Estrada

[DanielGoldfish]

You might be supprised but it's still common among Russians to bring USD50-100 for personal expenses when travelling on a package tour. Turkey is the reason, with all that "all-inclusive" services offered. The second issue is the principle: I paid for it and won't back off, period. The Russian airlines already confirmed they will not charge the "trapped" tourists for the return flight (should they have free seats). Hope it all ends well with the hotel too. Truth be told, the majority of Russians in Ptt earned a very unpleasant image, so ex aequo et bono the nation should expect same attitude in return once in a while.

[axel2001]

Russian tourists already paid to Lanta-tour for air fair and hotel rooms, so the hotel credited the company Lanta-tour Thai and expect to get money later. Tourists don't have any responsibility to pay their rooms because they already paid. It's problem of the hotel that they credited tour company. And nobody said that Lanta-tour will not pay (responsibility of this company was insured by special fund) to the hotel, but the hotel already seized tourist's belongings.

PS: Small remark. There were more than 6000 customers of Lanta-tour around the world and they didn't have any problems in other countries except Thailand. They were allowed to stay in hotels and flight back to home.

PSS: It's really big news in Russia and thai hotels who seized belongings already blacklisted by Rostourism.

[OzMick]

Once the tour company has announced bankruptcy, the contract is void, and the hotel is under no further obligation to provide any service without an arrangement for payment being agreed. Any payments made over and above that paid to the tour company would be claimable on travel insurance, and if you decide to carry that risk yourself, dont whine.

Until some arrangement to pay ALL of the a/c, I would be allowing nothing - including access to the room os safe-box.

[puntmeister]

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

I was staying in a hotel in Pattaya last May and there were mainly Chinese and Russians staying there. My wife had a friend who worked at the hotel and she told her that they hate the Russian tourists because they are unfriendly and mean, whilst the Chinese are friendly and generous. Apparently the Russians want everything for nothing and nothing about the hotel is ever good enough for them. Seems these stranded types will not be getting any special treatment if hotel staff feel this way about them.

I once stayed for a week in a resort hotel in a coastal town in Egypt - about 95% Russians in the hotel. The resort was easily 4 stars - rooms were about $30/night, including buffet breakfast, lunch, and dinner (a fairly extravagent buffet). The rooms/grounds were spotless. The Russians griped and griped and griped.

Now I, personally, have stayed in many hotels and apartments in Russia and Ukraine. For $30, you get to sleep under a bridge. For $100, you get a dingy room, a lumpy mattress, and a shower in the basement of the hotel ($5 extra fee for shower). 4 star hotels - only found in a couple major cities - ballpark, $400/night (and STILL no smiles from the staff!).

Russians aren't known for being fair and reasonable.

[tragickingdom]

The world should of course know which hotels are refusing access to the safe boxes with the belongings of their guests so people worldwide can avoid these mMafia establishments. Anyone has a list?

[Gers1873]

Holding personal belongings in a safe deposit box is despicable. A classic no class Thai move.

And of course things like this only happen in Thailand ----- <deleted> --- what utter boll.......

[sailor59]

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

I was staying in a hotel in Pattaya last May and there were mainly Chinese and Russians staying there. My wife had a friend who worked at the hotel and she told her that they hate the Russian tourists because they are unfriendly and mean, whilst the Chinese are friendly and generous. Apparently the Russians want everything for nothing and nothing about the hotel is ever good enough for them. Seems these stranded types will not be getting any special treatment if hotel staff feel this way about them.

A friend of mine just returned from Pattaya and told me they were rude beyond belief. They would just push their way into line with no regard for any body. Maybe it is a good thing they get treated like they treat every one else.

Maybe the local Russian Mafia will help them out for a price.

Rude is not the right word. A few years back i was traveling from BKK to Athens via Istanbul. I was the first at the airport because i like to get an isle seat at the back of the plane. The check in was still closed and i waited at the entrance like any civilized human would.

And then i saw Armagedon in all its glory! Three buses had pulled over and a million of russians were running towards me, they jumped the entrance cordon and made their own lines in front of every check in desk. The yelling, the screaming, the changing between lines to a shorter one was unbeliavable. And i was still waiting at the entrance like an idiot.

Finally the desks opened and there was the real chaos. So i just walked between them, cut off a clerk and ask for the manager. When he came i went nuts. I called them (the russians) every kind of name i could think of, explaining to the manager what had happened. Of course he stoped the person on line, checked me in and i left.

But the flight itself was no better, it was hell all the way to Turkey. They never stoped drinking, yelling and jumping around all the way to Istanbul. They reminded me of the russians going bananas inside Macy's at the 80's movie "Moskow on the Hudson".

[puntmeister]

The guests should be accommodated and should pay the bill when they can access their funding

Have you had any in depth dealings with Russians, other than mild chance encounters?

Its pretty much a given that these tourists - and yes, they are victims of the bankrupt RUSSIAN tour company - would NEVER cough up a penny for the hotel bill.

Short of insurance policies and legitimate, functional legal processes limited to Wetern countries, the way this situation should be handled: The hotels muscle as much cash they can squeeze out of the Russian tourists, the Russian tourists in turn fight with the bankrupt Russian tour operator (they'll get nowhere, but that's a notch closer than the Thai hotels would get....)

[axel2001]

Once the tour company has announced bankruptcy, the contract is void, and the hotel is under no further obligation to provide any service without an arrangement for payment being agreed.

Hotel can ask tourists to move to another hotel but not seize they passports ask for payment for nights they already stayed. Blackmail is bad business practice.

[z12]

On a paid tour package, would not the hotel and airline already have been paid?

I can't see an airline nor a hotel accepting unpaid customers on a tour package.

I can only understand additional charges that a hotel guest might incure, like room service, etc.

Edited January 31, 2012 by z12

[stockholm1995]

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

If you were the hotel owner and someone didn't pay his bill, what would you do?

The agreement is between Lanta-Tour Company and the Hotel and not between the russian tourist and the Hotel. The 2 hotels have already filed a Police Report against Lanta-Tour Thai Co Ltd which they see as the counterpart.

[airconsult]

Just to draw lessons from this and food for thought, my understanding is that nobody can withold your passport, unless it is by court order. The passport you hold does not belong to you, it is the property of the respective Government. If anyone witholds your passport, inform the embassy at once. It belongs to them, they will get it back.

Try going through the border at Maisai on a visa run and keeping your passport. The Burmese Immigration keep it until you return through on your way back into Thailand, which may be up to a week later. If you don't hand it over you won't be allowed in so what are we supposed to do; call the British Embassy in Rangoon?

all that "passport belongs to the government" is rubbish not applicable except it applies (to my best knowledge) only to one country, namely The British Empire. passports are confiscated and held till a certain problem is resolved a zillion times every day by authorities and private parties and no embassy will lift a finger to recoup one. period!

Bit of a history / geography lesson for you. The british empire was not a country, it was a number of countries comprising roughly one fifth of the worlds population at the time. Britain is not a country it is a nation. British passports are the property of the british government not the holder. Inside it states that they should not be given to anyone. They only reason passports are held is because the holder is stupid enough to hand it over, it is illegal to hold one in most countries even thailand (where you are required to keep it on you at all times ).

Fairly recently in Phuket a policeman confiscated an Australian passport from a tourist (a dispute over jet-ski damage.....) and the Honorary Consul in Phuket spoke to the police officer, pointing out that the passport is in fact the property of the Australian Government, resulting in it's return to the tourist concerned immediately. Most police officers are not aware of the specific legality so it's important to contact the embassy or consul concerned. I believe US passports are also the property of the US Government.

[robblok]

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

If you were the hotel owner and someone didn't pay his bill, what would you do?

The agreement is between Lanta-Tour Company and the Hotel and not between the russian tourist and the Hotel. The 2 hotels have already filed a Police Report against Lanta-Tour Thai Co Ltd which they see as the counterpart.

Sure but if you are a freelance web designer and you are hired by a company A to make a design for company B and Company B has paid company A but company A did not pay you. I am sure you would not go on working.

B is a victim. You are a victim. A is the one responsible. But still you wont go on designing if you know your not going to get paid.

So I do understand both sides but i understand the hotel too.

[tonypace02]

While shopping for a Jomtien hotel room for a couple of nights in October I ran across a line like this in the web pages of some of the better hotels.

"- Rates are not applicable to Russian, CIS and Indian Market."

Another included Arab Markets. Does anyone know what that is all about?

[jshorts]

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

If you were the hotel owner and someone didn't pay his bill, what would you do?

I can remember when the owner of the hotel owed money to the suppliers involved in the construction of the Ambassador Hotel Jomtien. He refused to pay also!

And your point is?

[jshorts]

Russian tourists already paid to Lanta-tour for air fair and hotel rooms, so the hotel credited the company Lanta-tour Thai and expect to get money later. Tourists don't have any responsibility to pay their rooms because they already paid. It's problem of the hotel that they credited tour company. And nobody said that Lanta-tour will not pay (responsibility of this company was insured by special fund) to the hotel, but the hotel already seized tourist's belongings.

PS: Small remark. There were more than 6000 customers of Lanta-tour around the world and they didn't have any problems in other countries except Thailand. They were allowed to stay in hotels and flight back to home.

PSS: It's really big news in Russia and thai hotels who seized belongings already blacklisted by Rostourism.

Does this surprise you?

The Thai philosophy is: Only be concerned about today.

"Que sera, sera."

[stockholm1995]

This must be a nightmare situation for both hotels.

first, they may not get paid then all these less good PR.

Most people tend to read hotel reviews and google the hotel name before booking a hotel room.

I know that the tourists got their stuff back but it was already too late.

Bad PR like this is devastating for a hotel.

[longtom]

Holding your property is one thing. Holding your passport and wallet is another. It may be "legal" in Thailand but it shouldn't be.

If you rented your motorcycle to a stranger who gave you his ID as security and then that person didn't pay you, would you return the ID?

They were left in lock boxes, not left as a security deposit.

I don't understand your point.

The hotel hasn't been paid and they don't want to release the personal property until they get payment.

You just don't get it, do you? The guests already payed to their tour company. Their belongings are being held hostage because the tour operator didn't pay the hotel! You find it perfectly normal to let them pay twice?

[moe666]

I would be will to bet that some where in that contract that the guest is responsible for all unpaid bills of services rendered. My ex girlfriend is a medical provider in the US she has contracts with insurance companies, but her patients are responsible for all unpaid services.

Since no one here knows what the contract says its all a matter of personal opinion.

[david555]

Holding personal belongings in a safe deposit box is despicable. A classic no class Thai move.

And your point is?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I could easily imagine many hotels taking this route in the case of non-payment.

And also considering that a Russian tour operator would negotiate a rock bottom price with the airlines and hotels i can see a point for doing so in mean time, also so put more pressure to Russian embassy to help

[welbymd]

Another example of why not to go on a package holiday. Make you own flight, hotel, rental car reservations. Still, it blows to be in their position. They have already paid the tourist company, and will probably have to pay the hotels again just to get their luggage.

[z12]

They were left in lock boxes, not left as a security deposit.

I don't understand your point.

The hotel hasn't been paid and they don't want to release the personal property until they get payment.

You just don't get it, do you? The guests already payed to their tour company. Their belongings are being held hostage because the tour operator didn't pay the hotel! You find it perfectly normal to let them pay twice?

Had the hotel not been paid before check in by the tour company, why would they let them check it?

Edited January 31, 2012 by z12

[chooka]

Another example of why not to go on a package holiday. Make you own flight, hotel, rental car reservations. Still, it blows to be in their position. They have already paid the tourist company, and will probably have to pay the hotels again just to get their luggage.

And for those unfortunate souls who have spent thier holiday money and can't pay to get thier own property back including passport which is required to leave will be stuck in Thailand. Thier visa's will expire and eventually could find themselves arrested and locked up. Love to know the name of the hotels so I can avoid these sleazebags and spread the word around to everyone I know and paste it on the internet.

[HerbalEd]

Anyone know where they are staying? PM me. Might can help.

Yes. They were staying in the hotel that was stated in the article. Read it and then you'll know.

[Mugg]

How does anyone get to 5 pages and not read at least a few lines from the original post?

[Nisa]

the real point in question here is, thai's enter into a contract with X party

As long as all thing go okay this contract is good

But all contracts have 2 sides and things may go wrong

In this case when things did the Thai Hotels no longer wanted to honour the contract with Party X and expected the end user to pay for the risk they had taken in the first contract

Even my Thai wife understands "Double Dipping"

This is an incredibly strange view. So, you think folks should continue to honor a contract when they other party makes clear they have no intention of paying? Or is this only the way it should be for Thais and that they should be the ones considered breaking a contract by not delivering good or services for free when the contract clearly states they will be paid for those goods and services.

How do you know their intentions?

a) They didn't pay

They didn't make arrangements to pay

c) They filed for bankruptcy (basically overnight & without warning) to protect themselves from having to pay debts and forcing those they owe to file claims with the court to have any hope of seeing any portion owed to them.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I'm still having difficulty understanding what you mean. You say "their respresentatives." What exactly do you mean by that? If they are wiring money (Western Union?), that takes only a matter of minutes.

If I were the hotel management I would be concerned about receiving payment for services rendered. I can easily see the hotel's point of view that it will be more than happy to release the "loot" when payment is received.

For what reason would a Thai even consider attending school in Switzerland?

(Why would you ever put a wedding ring in a safe?)

I find all your questions simple-minded.

1. The guests of the hotel already paid their money to the tour company, and have now been ripped off just as much as the hotel. If the tour company collapses, a customer-oriented hotel would do their best to show some sympathy, and not hold the personal possessions of their fellow victims hostage to try to make sure the bill gets paid. Some of their guest may not be able to come up with the money for airfare to get home, much less pay a second time for their hotel room.

The hotel is surely going to suffer some losses, but if word gets around (which it does faster and wider than ever these days) they will lose far more long-term by showing themselves to be rapacious <deleted>.

2. Many Thais aiming for careers in the hospitality industry do in fact attend the world-leading educational institutions overseas, by far the most respected in the world are Swiss. I have also seen local "branch/franchises" set up here affiliated with these Swiss schools, but suspect they wouldn't have the same level of quality.

Thais learning their philosophy of customer service from other Thais, especially those with a Chinese business mindset will never provide the level of customer care (see that word - genuine **caring** is required!) that the higher reaches of international traveller has come to expect from having their needs met by western-trained professionals.

Losing a bit of money in the short term in order to provide outstanding customer satisfaction is a formula followed by the world leaders in this industry, and a growing number of others as well. Thais need to start adopting the same long-term philosophy in order to effectively compete as the world continues to open up.

3 Why would you ever put a wedding ring in a safe?

***personal attack removed***

Edited January 31, 2012 by cdnvic

[softgeorge]

Russian tourists stranded in Vietnam as tour operator goes bust

At least 300 Russian tourists are stranded in the resort town of Mui Ne after a major Russian tourism firm that brought them to Vietnam went bankrupt last week.

It would take around two weeks to send them all home, a Russian diplomat said

The tourists have been unable to check out because Lanta-Tour did not transfer money totaling some US$300,000 to the resorts that housed them, he said.

The resorts have held on to the visitors' passports to prevent them from leaving.

Source: Thanh Nien News.

Lanta Tour ruins holidays of 3,500 Russians

The information about the number of Lanta's clients abroad appeared on Saturday. The largest group of Russian tourists, who found themselves stuck in foreign lands, was in Thailand - 1,072 people. The list continues with 468 people in India's Goa, 309 in Vietnam, 250 in the Czech Republic, 146 in France, 135 in Cuba and 112 tourists in the Dominican Republic. The now-bankrupt company has sold over 3,000 tours before the middle of February 2012.

Source:

Pravda.Ru

Edited January 31, 2012 by softgeorge
Edited for fair use.

[Nisa]

the real point in question here is, thai's enter into a contract with X party

As long as all thing go okay this contract is good

But all contracts have 2 sides and things may go wrong

In this case when things did the Thai Hotels no longer wanted to honour the contract with Party X and expected the end user to pay for the risk they had taken in the first contract

Even my Thai wife understands "Double Dipping"

This is an incredibly strange view. So, you think folks should continue to honor a contract when they other party makes clear they have no intention of paying? Or is this only the way it should be for Thais and that they should be the ones considered breaking a contract by not delivering good or services for free when the contract clearly states they will be paid for those goods and services.

The answer is simple

If two parties enter a contract, then that contact is legally binding,

The contract will state what must be provided and how payment will be made

if some one signs such a contract with out first making surre that the other parties part of the contract is carried out then they are responsible

For instance if you are not prepared to take the risk simply make sure the contract you sign sees you paid before your part of the contract becomes your responsible to complete, then it the fault of the 2nd party that the contract was never paid

People enter into these contracts to increase their financial gain, and must realise their is always risks in such money making ventures

So yes the contract was with the tour company not the end user

My wife and I run a business in Thailand and sometimes look at doing contracts to supply goods to other companies

Our risk is with the company we contract with, once the goods have left their premises and delivered to the end user, we must take action against the company we have a contract with, as the goods have already been sent out

Once the hotel found out they were not getting paid, as per the contract, the travel agency broke the contract. As you say, the hotel had no contract with the guests and therefore own no free services to the guest ... the guest need to take their complaints up with the travel agency minus any bad treatment from the hotel which doesn't include not providing free services to them.

It is ridiculous to believe any company is going to deliver goods and services once they find out they are not getting paid as per the contract.

And this type of thing is not uncommon and when it happens travelers are stuck without ways homes or places to stay unless the bills are paid. Hotels and airlines are not in the business of providing services for free because some 3rd party went under. Some countries force travel agencies to post bonds in the event they go under to ensure this doesn't happen but Russia has not such laws.