A "Real" Degree In Education In Just 15 Days....

[Pseudolus]

This is actually a considerable pain in the butt for all concerned. I did a quick search on my database for this Belford university, and up popped 11 people with a degree from there that have registered; most were American, a couple of Indians, and 2 hiso Thais with the prefix Dr... courtesy of their bought PhDs. Worryingly enough, a lot of them are working in HSE critical roles, and one of the Thai nationals is a public speak on this subject.

Jumping onto Wiki to see the list of "unaccredited universities", for Unaccredited, read fake, and there are so many of them particularly with names very close to real institutions that it is really tough for people who might not be au fait with universities outside of their own country.

Some examples...

American University of Hawaii

Ashford University

Atlanta University,

Bennington University

Bridgewater University

Cal Southern University

Canbourne University

European Open University

Greenwich University^[

Kingston College

LaSalle University (Louisiana)

University of Humberside

and my favourite, from where I will be ordering my Doctor of Medicine from this afternoon,.,,

United Nations University,

[richard10365]

If I had one of those phony life time experience degrees, I would hate to go thru life knowing that at any moment my academic background could be exposed and everyone would think of me as a fraud. What if I had a family.....I might be fired from my job and have no way to support my family. If we had a house and car payments we could lose both. Imagine that sick feeling in my stomach when I am standing in front of my wife telling her that my degree that was part of the security she might have considered when she married me was fake. Imagine the lost trust and damage to the relationship. Then going to work to collect my things....everyone looking at me. They all think I am a fraud.

I think a real degree is the best way to go.

[Loaded]

Greenwich University^[

I was little surprised to read that as the University of Greenwich is a reputable university that runs an accredited BEd. However, a little Googling showed me there is a Greenwich University (Pakistani) and a University of Greenwich (UK and reputable). I wonder if anyone has had their BEd from UofG knocked back after a Google search by a Thai admin.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Loaded

[Loaded]

If I had one of those phony life time experience degrees, I would hate to go thru life knowing that at any moment my academic background could be exposed and everyone would think of me as a fraud. What if I had a family.....I might be fired from my job and have no way to support my family. If we had a house and car payments we could lose both. Imagine that sick feeling in my stomach when I am standing in front of my wife telling her that my degree that was part of the security she might have considered when she married me was fake. Imagine the lost trust and damage to the relationship. Then going to work to collect my things....everyone looking at me. They all think I am a fraud.

I think a real degree is the best way to go.

The end of the world and no doubt suicide to follow.

I agree that a real degree is the way to go. There are on-line courses from institutions as reputable as the Uni of London. Alternatively, enroll at a Thai university. However, is a Thai University degree recognised in any developed country? If not, it's going to be as worthless as a life-experience degree in a Western country.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Loaded

[richard10365]

If I had one of those phony life time experience degrees, I would hate to go thru life knowing that at any moment my academic background could be exposed and everyone would think of me as a fraud. What if I had a family.....I might be fired from my job and have no way to support my family. If we had a house and car payments we could lose both. Imagine that sick feeling in my stomach when I am standing in front of my wife telling her that my degree that was part of the security she might have considered when she married me was fake. Imagine the lost trust and damage to the relationship. Then going to work to collect my things....everyone looking at me. They all think I am a fraud.

I think a real degree is the best way to go.

The end of the world and no doubt suicide to follow.

I agree that a real degree is the way to go. There are on-line courses from institutions as reputable as the Uni of London. Alternatively, enroll at a Thai university. However, is a Thai University degree recognised in any developed country? If not, it's going to be as worthless as a life-experience degree in a Western country.

I get that question alot at Payap so I emailed Harvard, Cambridge and UCLA and asked if I graduate with a bachelors degree from Payap University would they accept my degree as meeting the requirement for further study?

They all said as long the institution that issued the degree is accredited by the government body that regulates education in that country where the issuing school is located, then the would accept that degree.

Now if a business in the west is so short sighed as to not see the value in an international degree issued in Thailand, the center of the AEC, then I would not want to work for that business anyway.

I suspect there are many people who also feel the same way about education in Thailand which is based on something they heard from someone else. I have been studying for 4 years at Payap. We are using western textbooks (mostly from the USA), international and Thai professors, and tested on the knowledge I have learned many times. If I am unsure about what I am learning, I can easily go to YouTube and see Stanford teachers teaching the same material that I am learning here in Chiang Mai. Just presented differently. I have failed about 4 courses at Payap which I had to take over because I am not good at math and needed to take the class again for a 2nd time to fully understand it. The teachers are not perfect, the bureaucracy here is no perfect. Sometimes I find Payap very frustrating; however, I'm sure students in Europe and the US have had similiar experiences in their schools. Anyone who says Thai international programs are not comparable to programs in the west don't really know what they are talking about.

A degree from Payap University is a million times better than a life time experience degree. I earned my degree the way that society feels degrees should be earned. Hard work and study.

[Pseudolus]

I do not think there is any fraud involved as long as if questioned they say it is an experienced unaccredited certificate. After all, a lot of universities will allow people with work experience entrance to their second year, and this is not fraud.

[BlackArtemis]

I used to sell these things. Great for fooling employers - I think.

Are today's employers still that easily fooled? I check not only the references given but I also check the applicant's Facebook account, usually a wealth of information.

I haven't come across an applicant who graduated from a university I don't know, but would consider it due diligence to check. An HR manager who doesn't check this should be fired.

By the way, having a degree printed on Khao Sarn Road is even cheaper, so if the employer doesn't even check...

I still don't understand why any teacher would have a facebook with their real name or any connection to themselves. My facebook has been made rather difficult to find. Had 4 classes of 9th graders just spend a whole semester trying to find me without success. I don't even have things on there I would be ashamed of either!

[wolf5370]

Greenwich University^[

I was little surprised to read that as the University of Greenwich is a reputable university that runs an accredited BEd. However, a little Googling showed me there is a Greenwich University (Pakistani) and a University of Greenwich (UK and reputable). I wonder if anyone has had their BEd from UofG knocked back after a Google search by a Thai admin.

My sister has a BSc and MSc from Greenwich University - in London. Its a huge university with many campuses (it was cobbled together from mergers of several colleges, polytechnics and a university). When I have seen lists before the country is often put in brackets after to differntiate : "Cambrige University (Seychells)" for example differs from "Cambridge University (England)"

[puchooay]

As I mentioned before, it's the school that validates the certificate. The MoE will accept the school's validation and only investigate if they have information that the degree is fake/false. That's certainly the case in Chiang Mai.

So what about the TCT when applying for a TL. I cannot imagine that the TCT would leave it up to schools.

[Loaded]

As I mentioned before, it's the school that validates the certificate. The MoE will accept the school's validation and only investigate if they have information that the degree is fake/false. That's certainly the case in Chiang Mai.

So what about the TCT when applying for a TL. I cannot imagine that the TCT would leave it up to schools.

The TCT office contains around 5 people to process teacher licenses, and waivers, for all Thai and foreign teachers. It's almost impossible to get someone to answer their phones and emails aren't responded to. I would put money on they don't check but take the schools word instead.

[GarryP]

I used to sell these things. Great for fooling employers - I think.

Are today's employers still that easily fooled? I check not only the references given but I also check the applicant's Facebook account, usually a wealth of information.

I haven't come across an applicant who graduated from a university I don't know, but would consider it due diligence to check. An HR manager who doesn't check this should be fired.

By the way, having a degree printed on Khao Sarn Road is even cheaper, so if the employer doesn't even check...

I still don't understand why any teacher would have a facebook with their real name or any connection to themselves. My facebook has been made rather difficult to find. Had 4 classes of 9th graders just spend a whole semester trying to find me without success. I don't even have things on there I would be ashamed of either!

Also as many people make their content private and only viewable by friends, there are limits to what you can glean unless you are able to hack their account.

[tombkk]

If I had one of those phony life time experience degrees, I would hate to go thru life knowing that at any moment my academic background could be exposed and everyone would think of me as a fraud. What if I had a family.....I might be fired from my job and have no way to support my family. If we had a house and car payments we could lose both. Imagine that sick feeling in my stomach when I am standing in front of my wife telling her that my degree that was part of the security she might have considered when she married me was fake. Imagine the lost trust and damage to the relationship. Then going to work to collect my things....everyone looking at me. They all think I am a fraud.

I think a real degree is the best way to go.

The end of the world and no doubt suicide to follow.

I agree that a real degree is the way to go. There are on-line courses from institutions as reputable as the Uni of London. Alternatively, enroll at a Thai university. However, is a Thai University degree recognised in any developed country? If not, it's going to be as worthless as a life-experience degree in a Western country.

Degrees from Thai universities accredited by the Ministry of Education are recognised world-wide. In Thailand, a teaching institution is not allowed to call themselves a university if they are not approved by the MoE. I have an MBA from a Thai university, teach as a guest lecturer at a Thai university (with many international students), and am pursuing my PhD at a Thai university. All these degrees are internationally recognized.

Other countries see that differently. In the US, you can call your learning institution a university, and the accreditation is another step. Before I knew about all this, I came across a university in Hawaii that offered a Master's degree based on life-time experience. I found it a bit fishy and did some background checks - and indeed, they were not accredited.

So, it's not the country were the university is based, but the regulations in that country that let's them use the term "university"in their company name. Check with the Ministry of Education in the respective country whether they are accredited. And if the university says they are approved by the US Department of Foreign Affairs, ask them for the email address, so you can verify it...

[tombkk]

This is actually a considerable pain in the butt for all concerned. I did a quick search on my database for this Belford university, and up popped 11 people with a degree from there that have registered; most were American, a couple of Indians, and 2 hiso Thais with the prefix Dr... courtesy of their bought PhDs. Worryingly enough, a lot of them are working in HSE critical roles, and one of the Thai nationals is a public speak on this subject.

Jumping onto Wiki to see the list of "unaccredited universities", for Unaccredited, read fake, and there are so many of them particularly with names very close to real institutions that it is really tough for people who might not be au fait with universities outside of their own country.

Some examples...

American University of Hawaii

Ashford University

Atlanta University,

Bennington University

Bridgewater University

Cal Southern University

Canbourne University

European Open University

Greenwich University^[

Kingston College

LaSalle University (Louisiana)

University of Humberside

and my favourite, from where I will be ordering my Doctor of Medicine from this afternoon,.,,

United Nations University,

There is a UN University:

http://unu.edu/

[sirchai]

Academic Programmes

The United Nations University offers a variety of academic programmes in line with its obligations under Article I, Clause 7 of the UNU Charter, which states that “the University shall assist scholars, especially young scholars, to participate in research in order to increase their capability to contribute to the extension, application and diffusion of knowledge”.

In December 2009, the UN General Assembly approved an amendment to the UNU Charter, Article I, Clause 8, to facilitate UNU’s role as a global graduate school with the ability to “grant and confer master’s degrees and doctorates, diplomas, certificates and other academic distinctions”.

Across the various UNU institutes, credited programmes are offered at the master’s degree and doctorate levels. In addition, UNU continues to offer a variety of continuing professional and executive education reaching over 3,000 young professionals each year, mainly from developing countries.

CONTACT

Office of Academic Affairs

United Nations University

5-53-70 Jingumae

Shibuya-ku, Tokyo

Japan 150

Edited February 16, 2012 by tombkk
Unnessary slime remark deleted.

[richard10365]

This is actually a considerable pain in the butt for all concerned. I did a quick search on my database for this Belford university, and up popped 11 people with a degree from there that have registered; most were American, a couple of Indians, and 2 hiso Thais with the prefix Dr... courtesy of their bought PhDs. Worryingly enough, a lot of them are working in HSE critical roles, and one of the Thai nationals is a public speak on this subject.

Jumping onto Wiki to see the list of "unaccredited universities", for Unaccredited, read fake, and there are so many of them particularly with names very close to real institutions that it is really tough for people who might not be au fait with universities outside of their own country.

Some examples...

American University of Hawaii

Ashford University

Atlanta University,

Bennington University

Bridgewater University

Cal Southern University

Canbourne University

European Open University

Greenwich University^[

Kingston College

LaSalle University (Louisiana)

University of Humberside

and my favourite, from where I will be ordering my Doctor of Medicine from this afternoon,.,,

United Nations University,

We had a guy walk in with a Bachelors of Administration degree from Belford University. He wanted to study our Masters TESOL program. We rejected his education credentials as being fake. We never saw him again.

[bangkokburning]

I want a degree, but I am not intelligent enough or too lazy to actually make it through even a community college + tranasfer to mediocre state college.

I work in a field in which a degree is perhaps the paramount determining factor of hiring - so I am faking it becasue I am a fraud.

Communications - Study TV and media. The "Mrs." degree of the 90s-10s. Idiot's diploma

Education - The school marm degree, only (women) seeking to teach K-6 would persue this unless it is an MA/PHD and they were going into administration. This in the US is a bigger loser degree than Communications.

T/ESL - These are more scam majors and in fact, there was a time that even the lesser legitimate universities would never offer a BA let alone an MA in such. A PHD in such a subject is laughable. These days, some legitimate schools in states are offering this turd degree but it is often as certificate or online or sometihing like that. As the international teaching industry rose up, many schools could not leave that sweet money on the table. A BA in TESL, laughable.

I have limited but poor experiences with "professional teachers" and "administrators" that had taken the ED, TESL route. Funny how serious and professional they take themselves, an obvious ruse as they know how shallow their real academic training is. I would take an applicant with a BA from a good university before I would touch anyone with a MA/PHD in Education or (snark) TESL.

Teaching "English" is simply about handling a class well (not boring your students), getting them to interact and HOPEFULLY you will have a few that will do some homework (study vocab). Not rocket science and no need for a degree.

I detest the Philippino now Indonesian - Thailand should NEVER host these teachers. It is so annoyingly sing-song.

Unless those KSR printed degrees have become better all you need to do is use a loupe and have a look at the printing - you will see its off a laser printer. Besides - who carries around their diploma and where are your transcripts! Have my diploma right here....(fake duh).

Thailand - never was so much asked of an employee to which was paid so little and given so much hassle.

Edited February 18, 2012 by bangkokburning

[tombkk]

Teaching English is not only about handling a class well - it is also about knowing the grammar (you won't believe how some "English teachers" spell) and about teaching techniques.

Also, you may not like the Filipino or Indonesian accent, but some of the teacher coming from those countries are better qualified to teach English than native speakers who have no qualification except for having grown up in an English-speaking country.

No, I am not an English teacher. But I do agree with the MoE's required that teachers must have a qualification. The question here is whether life experience (i.e. having taught for so many years) should be acceptable as a qualification. One way to find out would be independently testing the students to evaluate the teacher.

[Scott]

Providing a quality education should be the goal of schools. Schools are best staffed by people with a degree in education. Most employers can quickly and easily spot those with an education degree over those without. Employees who major in education have usually chosen it as a profession. They are committed and it is what they want to do. There are exception.

English is best taught by native speakers with a degree in education, if none are available, they should be taught by people with a degree. If none are availabe, they should be taught by someone with a TEFL. Again, people with a TEFL have some training in the area of education.

Non-native speakers should only be employed to teach English as a last resort. Non-native speakers can be effective if they have good resources, including CD's etc. Again, there are exceptions.

Where I work, we employ a large number of non-native speakers, but they are primarily subject teachers--Mathematics, Science, Social Studies, Health Education, Physical Education, Music etc.. Most have education degrees and are committed workers who produce excellent results in their teaching.

Just my take on the situation.

[aussiestyle1983]

I would like to think that after coming back to Aus to get a degree that I could find at least some schools/language institutes or whatever that will take into account my quals and the fact that they are REAL!

I had a very similar experience to you. My first teaching experience in LOS was at the place with the name of a tobaco company. Others teaching there put me in touch with a large private Catholic school chain that was equally if not more dodgy... Anyway, after 2 years of teaching, I returned to Australia to earn a degree. I studied through Open Universities Australia whilst working full-time in Oz and after 4years of studying I have ended up with 2 bachelor degrees, one from Griffith and one from Macquarie. It's good to read a post from someone who had a similar experience. I don't know if I'll ever use the degrees for anything or even return to Thailand (hopefully I can use them for something as I spent about $15,000AUD and used 4 years of my life), but if I do return to Thailand to teach at least I know I will have a real degree behind me...

[jaiyenyen]

I come from the UK, and around thirty years ago, I completed a four year apprentiship, and gained two City&Guilds certificates. During this time I studied at a College of Further Education, which is now part of the University of Kent.

I now teach in Thailand, and wanted to get a work permit.

I went to the British Embassy with my two original certificates, and signed a statutory declaration, saying that I had studied for four years at a college that was now part of a university, and I believed that my four years of study, plus my three years teaching experience, was the equivalent to a modern day masters degree.

The declaration was signed by me and a member of the embassy staff, then embossed with the embassy seal. I took it along to the MOE, and collected my work permit seven days later.

[rediculouspom]

I come from the UK, and around thirty years ago, I completed a four year apprentiship, and gained two City&Guilds certificates. During this time I studied at a College of Further Education, which is now part of the University of Kent.

I now teach in Thailand, and wanted to get a work permit.

I went to the British Embassy with my two original certificates, and signed a statutory declaration, saying that I had studied for four years at a college that was now part of a university, and I believed that my four years of study, plus my three years teaching experience, was the equivalent to a modern day masters degree.

The declaration was signed by me and a member of the embassy staff, then embossed with the embassy seal. I took it along to the MOE, and collected my work permit seven days later.

I am very interested in what you say as to some extent it mirrors my experience! I studied for 3 years at Princeton College of FE to get a Fellowship Cert and then at the City of London Poly, (now London Metropolitan University) for 1 year to get my CPE in Law.I have letters from the university etc stating my exam passes are equivalent to an LL.B i.e. BA.

I recently went to the British Consul to sign a Declaration to th effect that they were authentic professional docs and that they were equivalent to a BA. This has not been submitted to the TCT yet.

Prior to presenting the sealed Declaration to the MOE, to get a work permit, please confirm that you obtained permission to teach from the Teachers Council for Thailand. If so did the docs you submitted include the aforeesaid Declaration? Did you make a personal Appearance?

Do you think I should Complete another Declaration, along similar lines to yours, before appearing before the TCT?

I've been teaching for 3 years and i am desperate to have my qualifications recognised, so I can start living again. Any help you can provide wil be wecomed.

Rediculouspom

[jaiyenyen]

rediculouspom,

I've sent you a PM