I Want To Put On 3Kg Of Muscle

[robblok]

I think the whole bulky / ripped is not dictated by cardio but by diet. Cardio does burn calories but not as much as people think. Diet is a much better tool for getting ripped. However cardio is good for your health and that is why i do it.

[tropo]

I think the whole bulky / ripped is not dictated by cardio but by diet. Cardio does burn calories but not as much as people think. Diet is a much better tool for getting ripped. However cardio is good for your health and that is why i do it.

My philosophy on leaning up is summed up in "burn the fat, don't starve the fat". In actual fact it's a too pronged approach - burn more fat, eat less calories - combined.

For example, the best way to lose 1kg of fat in a week (7000 cal) would be to burn an extra 500 a day and eat 500 less per day. Reducing calories alone leads to the risk of going into starvation mode where you'll hold onto fat and burn muscle for energy.

Right now I'm actually eating more while still leaning up.

[Tolley]

I am not a big fan of creatine. It can be hard on the liver. Unless you are a professional athlete or body builder I would avoid it.

As for losing fat I will say once again the majority of older guys I see lifting heavy weights are carrying a bit of a gut. Not sure why this is unless you need to eat so much to keep that big frame going and feed those muscles. I recommend more empahsis on diet and supplements rather than trying to exercise to get rid of fat.

[transam]

I am not a big fan of creatine. It can be hard on the liver. Unless you are a professional athlete or body builder I would avoid it.

As for losing fat I will say once again the majority of older guys I see lifting heavy weights are carrying a bit of a gut. Not sure why this is unless you need to eat so much to keep that big frame going and feed those muscles. I recommend more empahsis on diet and supplements rather than trying to exercise to get rid of fat.

No picture but take a look at the worlds strongest man. Depends what you want, and really it all can be achieved IF you have the determination.

[robblok]

I am not a big fan of creatine. It can be hard on the liver. Unless you are a professional athlete or body builder I would avoid it.

As for losing fat I will say once again the majority of older guys I see lifting heavy weights are carrying a bit of a gut. Not sure why this is unless you need to eat so much to keep that big frame going and feed those muscles. I recommend more empahsis on diet and supplements rather than trying to exercise to get rid of fat.

100% agree.. its all diet. You really don't burn that much by doing exercise. Not if you compare it to what you can do with your diet. I have used creatine but don't really like it.... caffeine tablets.... hmmm love those too bad comming off is a bit hard but they do give a good workout.

I don't see my cardio as a way to loose weight.. i hope it does but i don't expect much from it. I do 40 minutes on a spinning bike at a nice rate i cant really talk when doing it (indication of exertion). Anyway.. waiting for my food to settle so i can hit the iron.

Its fun to see that there are some enthusiasts here, we might not always agree with others views but at least we all try to work out. In the end its the determination that helps a lot.

[robblok]

I think the whole bulky / ripped is not dictated by cardio but by diet. Cardio does burn calories but not as much as people think. Diet is a much better tool for getting ripped. However cardio is good for your health and that is why i do it.

My philosophy on leaning up is summed up in "burn the fat, don't starve the fat". In actual fact it's a too pronged approach - burn more fat, eat less calories - combined.

For example, the best way to lose 1kg of fat in a week (7000 cal) would be to burn an extra 500 a day and eat 500 less per day. Reducing calories alone leads to the risk of going into starvation mode where you'll hold onto fat and burn muscle for energy.

Right now I'm actually eating more while still leaning up.

I agree that really starving the fat is not a good thing. I mean that its hard to burn 500 cals extra a day. Its quite a lot. Mostly the count of what you burn is exaggerated by machines its a lot less to be honest. Anyway im going to do some exercise.

[Naam]

i want to put on 3 centimeters. how do i proceed?

[robblok]

i want to put on 3 centimeters. how do i proceed?

Take some rope.. A 5 kg weight.. Connect the rope with the weight then proceed... You get the picture.

[tropo]

I agree that really starving the fat is not a good thing. I mean that its hard to burn 500 cals extra a day. Its quite a lot. Mostly the count of what you burn is exaggerated by machines its a lot less to be honest. Anyway im going to do some exercise.

I know I could lose fat a lot more quickly if I reduced calories, but I love to eat. Cardio allows me to eat so much more in a day without putting on fat. I also find that I'm getting more active as a result of the fitness I'm getting from the cardio... so I'm spending less time sitting on my a** at home therefore burning more calories throughout the day.

Usually I burn between 500 and 1000 calories per session on cardio equipment. I don't know if you've ever used the Cybex Arc Trainer but it's fantastic for burning calories without causing any negative stress on joints and muscles.What I really like about it is it doesn't interfere with my weight training by fatiguing the muscles.

It's a bit like cross-country skiing but you can adjust the step angle from 1 - 10. At about 3 or 4 it approximates cross country skiing. At 10 it's a bit like climbing but without the stress on the knees. Because you're able to put a lot of upper body work into the movement it burns calories a lot more easily than the bike. You program in your bodyweight so the heavier you are the more the machine compensates by adding resistance (a lot of people forget to do this when they step on). I burned 1055 the other day in an hour. I'd have to nearly kill myself on the bike to do that and I'd mess up my knees in the process. If I tried that on a rowing machine I'd hurt my back. The fitter I get the more calories I'm able to burn in an hour.

A lot of people confuse it with the elliptical trainer, but they are totally different movements. There's no contest - it's superior by far.

Just to use this one piece of equipment would be worth the price of a gym membership.

A good piece of professional equipment: eg. Lifecycle, Life treadmill, Life Elliptical, Concept Rower, Cybex etc should be fairly accurate in determining calorie consumption. Calories burned are proportional to watts of energy produced. The machine determines your calorie consumption from the watts of energy you produce. There could be a slight variance depending on how efficient someone's body is but I don't believe it would make a lot of difference for us normal folk. To get the number of calories spent in one hour, just take your average wattage for an hour and multiply by 3600 (seconds in one hour) then divide by 1000 (to get the number in kilo calories).

Then of course we should calculate the net calorie burn. For example, I would burn about 100 calories in an hour sitting around the house doing nothing. I'd subtract that to work out the net calories I've burned during a cardio session.

Edited March 10, 2012 by tropo

[tropo]

i want to put on 3 centimeters. how do i proceed?

A couple of buffet dinners per week should easily accomplish that.

[connda]

@connda,

Talking about misinformation... reaching muscle failure each and every training day will be hard and will lead to over training. How do you define muscle failure ?

About training shedules.. there are so many out there. I am sure you have tried many too. Some work for you and some don't. I done many too and must say the one i do now keeps working the longest so far. Does not mean i will go on with it forever. If i get bored with it i might have to change.

You are right about being consistent that is the biggest problem and it affects me too. Actually it affects me more then i want at least once a year something happens that gets me off training for a month or so. (mostly my parents visiting for a month and going with them on a holiday). I think many people have stuff like this. Its bad.. but almost unavoidable.

@robblok

I understand what you're saying, but you could write pages upon pages regarding techniques to use based on the goals you want to reach. And there is good info in this thread, and some of it is silliness. This 40 something year old guy is looking to bulk. But a 40 year old needs to train differently than a 20 year old. A body builder is going to train differently than a power lifter. I trained throughout my 40s. Been there, done that.

Muscle failure -- lifting in isolation until the muscle fail to contract anymore. I use that technique -- it works to bulk. No I don't over-train. Look up Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy. Actually I should have just recommended that @sidjameson look that term up and do his own research.

Over-training: One other reason I don't over train. The schedule I gave is an example. I do a couple of things that prevents me from over training. First, I listen to my body. If the muscle group is fatigued and sore, I either push the training out a day or two, or I train less intensively. Lower the weight, up the reps. Second, I don't do the same routine over and over again. I mix it up. I try to attack the muscles at different angles on different days. Maybe I concentrate on inclined bench presses one day, and decline benches the next training day. I hit each muscle group with three to four different exercises if I'm training for intensity, but I will mix those exercise up the next training day. I usually will have a primary compound movement lift, followed by isolation lifts. Attack the muscles at different angles, listen to your body, mix it up -- you won't over-train. Jing jing!

And taking a month off every year really isn't so bad -- well, as long as your not swilling brew and eating pizza. If you train consistently and go off for a month, you whole body recovers. When you get back into gym, you'll probably see some great gains in strength, mass, or both.

I hear ya...we're on the same page!

Edited March 10, 2012 by connda

[connda]

Agree with you that balanced diet and regular workout is essential. But if you have certain goals then supplements can help you to reach this a little faster and easier - I don't know if that is cheating already. I personally think the only supplements that are worth their money are: Whey, creatine, BCAAs, multivitamin tablets and maybe glutamine when dieting.

I am dieting right now and planning to go for competition next year but even my supplements are very basic (whey, L-carnitine, multivitamin, ginger and gotu kola tablets, 7-keto) and I am trying to get as much as I can out from food. The stuff is also really expensive here in Thailand...

I'm going to chime in on this. Supplements can be expensive. If I only had the money to buy one supplement, it would be creatine. If I had the money to buy two supplements, I would buy creatine and a high quality whey isolate. Man, supplements are expensive back home, but in Thailand -- holy cow -- Pang Mak Mak!!!

Edited March 10, 2012 by connda

[connda]

Hit the wrong button. Duplicate post.

Edited March 10, 2012 by connda

[Tolley]

Why I think diet is more important is that there will be times when you dont train that much or cant train because you are sick, injured, busy away etc. If you establish good eating habits and nutrition then these periods wont be so much of a problem for your weight. If you start off by halving your food portions over time your stomach will shrink and you will naturally eat less.

Additionally as you get older you will inevitably exercise less and less strenuously so creating those good nutrition and eating habits will stand you in good stead as you age.

[robblok]

Agree with you that balanced diet and regular workout is essential. But if you have certain goals then supplements can help you to reach this a little faster and easier - I don't know if that is cheating already. I personally think the only supplements that are worth their money are: Whey, creatine, BCAAs, multivitamin tablets and maybe glutamine when dieting.

I am dieting right now and planning to go for competition next year but even my supplements are very basic (whey, L-carnitine, multivitamin, ginger and gotu kola tablets, 7-keto) and I am trying to get as much as I can out from food. The stuff is also really expensive here in Thailand...

I'm going to chime in on this. Supplements can be expensive. If I only had the money to buy one supplement, it would be creatine. If I had the money to buy two supplements, I would buy creatine and a high quality whey isolate. Man, supplements are expensive back home, but in Thailand -- holy cow -- Pang Mak Mak!!!

I just use ebay for my supplements. I buy loads of fish oil capsules for a fraction of the Thai price. Heavy stuff like whey protein i just buy here. But i dont use that too much so it will be ok. I did order some of the more expensive vitamins to replace my blackmores vitamins to see if there is a extra benefit.

I think diet is a real important part of training. Especially if you want results because if you eat too much then you just get fat.

[tropo]

Why I think diet is more important is that there will be times when you dont train that much or cant train because you are sick, injured, busy away etc. If you establish good eating habits and nutrition then these periods wont be so much of a problem for your weight. If you start off by halving your food portions over time your stomach will shrink and you will naturally eat less.

Additionally as you get older you will inevitably exercise less and less strenuously so creating those good nutrition and eating habits will stand you in good stead as you age.

I think you're confusing "good diet" with calorie restriction. Unnecessary calorie restriction is not a "good diet".

A well balanced individual on a good exercise program and eating a healthy diet will surely be able to adjust his food intake during times of less activity.

A well balanced person will eat more when they are more active and eat less when they are less active. It is natural that a person's appetite will increase during active periods.

Edited March 11, 2012 by tropo

[tropo]

I just use ebay for my supplements. I buy loads of fish oil capsules for a fraction of the Thai price.

How much do you end up paying for fish oil including postage? Watson's does 200 x 1g caps for 550 baht.

[robblok]

I just use ebay for my supplements. I buy loads of fish oil capsules for a fraction of the Thai price.

How much do you end up paying for fish oil including postage? Watson's does 200 x 1g caps for 550 baht.

I got 900 at 1426 baht. So i saved a bit. 900 at watsons would be 2475. Its not a great deal (must say most of the fish oil i seen was more expensive than the one you mentioned.

[poanoi]

What's good about fishoil ?

Anyway when i said day 1, day two, that doesnt translate into monday & tuesday, it relates to monday & wednesday,

and i just got a flue/cold and now i remember the curse of building !

When i keep breaking down my muscles this is what happen every now and then, sick, sick, and sick

Edited March 11, 2012 by poanoi

[robblok]

The health benefits of fish oil include its ability to aid in treatment of heart diseases, high cholesterol, depression, anxiety, AHDH, low immunity, cancer, diabetes, inflammation, arthritis, IBD, AIDS, Alzheimer’s disease, eye disorders, macular degeneration and ulcers. It is helps in weight loss, pregnancy, fertility and skin care (particular for disorders such as psoriasis, acne).

Most of the these health benefits of fish oil can be attributed to the presence of Omega 3 essential fatty acids such as Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA). Other useful essential fatty acids include Alpha-linolenic acid or ALA and Gamma-linolenic acid or GLA.

Sorry for being lazy but i just copied this from a site.

Poanoi, maybe you started working out too hard right away and your body could not take the stress ?

[deejah]

what's the best way to tone at home with as little paraphernalia as possible?

Make your own for B500; I did:

http://www.youtube.c...pension+trainer

Works great. No more gyms for me! I take it along when traveling, too.

this looks really cool

thanks

i only watched a couple of minutes

because i have no idea how i would trust something like this to support my weight and not seriously injure myself

so back to my question, only add the word safe as well as easy to install/use

Nonsense. Anyway if you're that much of a klutz, you gotta stay away from weights, kettlebells, rubber, and machines. OK here you go:

http://www.amazon.co...k/dp/B004XIZN5M

Google and youtube around. Good stuff and it don't get cheaper. Now don't hurt yourself.

interesting book thanks

you completely missed my point on the device

did you install one in your abode?

i would like to see how people install these in thailand rooms

my post is in regards to installation

the device looks fantastic once it is installed but completely useless without the support structure

perhaps it is in the video but after two minutes i doubted it

if it is please advise i will watch it through

i would also like a chin up bar

but again these need to be installed properly to support the weight

especially for inversion positions!

thanks

[connda]

I just use ebay for my supplements. I buy loads of fish oil capsules for a fraction of the Thai price.

How much do you end up paying for fish oil including postage? Watson's does 200 x 1g caps for 550 baht.

I got 900 at 1426 baht. So i saved a bit. 900 at watsons would be 2475. Its not a great deal (must say most of the fish oil i seen was more expensive than the one you mentioned.

Is customs hitting you up for any fees?

[robblok]

I just use ebay for my supplements. I buy loads of fish oil capsules for a fraction of the Thai price.

How much do you end up paying for fish oil including postage? Watson's does 200 x 1g caps for 550 baht.

I got 900 at 1426 baht. So i saved a bit. 900 at watsons would be 2475. Its not a great deal (must say most of the fish oil i seen was more expensive than the one you mentioned.

Is customs hitting you up for any fees?

So far i haven't been hit by any fees. Maybe im just lucky but if things are send not using the DHL or UPS and are not too big they usually stay under the radar.

[robblok]

@deejah

My powerrack has a chinup bar.. but i think a complete powerrack is a bit too big and expensive for you. But it would support the thing you are looking for. There are good manufacturers of power racks in Thailand. I also think you could resell it for a good value if you were patient and had the time.

[JuliaThazinMayerhofer]

I personally think that everything has to be 100% to see optimum results:

100% on the diet (with few cheat meals once in a meal, that will also shock your body - good for metabolism and the mind while being on a diet)

100% on the cardio (with the right heart rate and duration)

100% on the weights

If all of this is 100% then supplements are not that important, they may just speed up things a little - depending on your goal.

I also don't believe that there is one common programme that will apply to everyone - in the end every body is different. I am doing 1.5 hrs of cardio per day now and also do weights 4-5 times per week. I don't have any signs of overtraining even though I am on a almost zero carb diet. Some people like me also have very good recovery - I don't even take any glutamine or other stuff for recovery. So my advice is really to closely observe your body: see how you react to certain kinds of foods and diets, if you don't see results then try to change a little (e.g. only eat chicken or fish as a protein source for 2 weeks). Also don't forget that your body will adapt over time, that's when you will stop seeing results, that's why you need to increase and change things up.

A personal note on the cardio: I also think that to you should eat enough and then burn it off through exercise.Starving and cutting down calories will end up in loosing muscle - that's the worst for me as a bodybuilder

[tropo]

(with few cheat meals once in a meal, that will also shock your body - good for metabolism and the mind while being on a diet)

I also don't believe that there is one common programme that will apply to everyone - in the end every body is different. I am doing 1.5 hrs of cardio per day now and also do weights 4-5 times per week. I don't have any signs of overtraining even though I am on a almost zero carb diet.

The only reason to cheat on your diet is to give you a mental break from time to time which would be important if your diet is zero carb. There's no shock which will benefit your metabolism.

You must be dreaming about carbs. If your diet truly is zero carb, that's brutal and impossible to keep up for any length of time - I wouldn't dream about punishing myself to that extent. It's a far better idea to balance your calorie intake with moderate carbs. Losing weight should be enjoyable, not punishment. Do it slowly, normalize your diet and aim for the long haul.

You say you do 1.5 hours of cardio per day. What type of cardio are you doing? Do you monitor your heart rate? Do you count your calorie burn on each session to keep tabs on the intensity. There are more efficient ways than doing it for that long - for example, increasing the intensity... or course with increased intensity you'll need to be more mindful of over training.

Edited March 12, 2012 by tropo

[JuliaThazinMayerhofer]

The cheat meal is important, otherwise my metabolism will slow down - but my cheat meal is usually clean just with high carbs, high protein and low fat.

I have no problem with low carb - actually the only carb I am taking right now is from vegetables and nuts, which is mostly fiber. After some time your body and mind gets used to it - no cravings anymore. I wanna compete and I will do everything to get really lean - over time I found out this approach works for me. And loosing weight/dieting is never enjoyable - but after some time you don't care anymore what you eat, you become like a robot - it's all about the results. But I still have the passion and love for this sport, I absolutely enjoy what I do and the results I see make me happy every day. Ask any bodybuilder who is competing, they will say similar things. But of course I understand that for many this might be too drastic and a too limited lifestyle. An ordinary person probably doesn't need to go that extreme, just eat clean, do the cardio and lift heavy with proper form.

For the cardio: I do a ketogenic diet right now, so cardio should not be too intense otherwise I will end up loosing muscle. I usually do 50 mins in the morning and 40 mins at night + weights. Heartrate is around 130. I can recover like crazy, only when I do legs I need more rest.

[tropo]

The cheat meal is important, otherwise my metabolism will slow down - but my cheat meal is usually clean just with high carbs, high protein and low fat.

I have no problem with low carb - actually the only carb I am taking right now is from vegetables and nuts, which is mostly fiber. After some time your body and mind gets used to it - no cravings anymore. I wanna compete and I will do everything to get really lean - over time I found out this approach works for me. And loosing weight/dieting is never enjoyable - but after some time you don't care anymore what you eat, you become like a robot - it's all about the results. But I still have the passion and love for this sport, I absolutely enjoy what I do and the results I see make me happy every day. Ask any bodybuilder who is competing, they will say similar things. But of course I understand that for many this might be too drastic and a too limited lifestyle. An ordinary person probably doesn't need to go that extreme, just eat clean, do the cardio and lift heavy with proper form.

For the cardio: I do a ketogenic diet right now, so cardio should not be too intense otherwise I will end up loosing muscle. I usually do 50 mins in the morning and 40 mins at night + weights. Heartrate is around 130. I can recover like crazy, only when I do legs I need more rest.

Ok, now your post makes more sense - you're a competition bodybuilder.

Your diet is not zero carb, but it would seem devoid of starchy carbs - because you're sticking with the fibrous carbs.

My basic philosophy still holds true though - you punish yourself too much, you'll cut your career short. Bodybuilders don't usually think long term but to the next competition and then let go for a period of time before the next training phase. Unfortunately they are heavily into drugs (you need to be if you want to be competitive) and screw themselves up long term. Many become metabolic disasters at a young age from the hormonal abuse.

[Tolley]

Why I think diet is more important is that there will be times when you dont train that much or cant train because you are sick, injured, busy away etc. If you establish good eating habits and nutrition then these periods wont be so much of a problem for your weight. If you start off by halving your food portions over time your stomach will shrink and you will naturally eat less.

Additionally as you get older you will inevitably exercise less and less strenuously so creating those good nutrition and eating habits will stand you in good stead as you age.

I think you're confusing "good diet" with calorie restriction. Unnecessary calorie restriction is not a "good diet".

A well balanced individual on a good exercise program and eating a healthy diet will surely be able to adjust his food intake during times of less activity.

A well balanced person will eat more when they are more active and eat less when they are less active. It is natural that a person's appetite will increase during active periods.

In theory you are right that you should be able to adjust diet according to activity rate. But my point is that many people including yourself I think stated that they like to work out a lot so that they can eat what they want. In other words they are punishing themselves so that they can eat or drink anything rather than eat the right kind of foods and no too much food. Setting up those sort of habits is the wrong way to go i think.

And i am not advocating calorie restricted diets just stating that most people probably eat twice as much as they need to and something not mentioned here before probably dont chew their food properly.

[tropo]

Why I think diet is more important is that there will be times when you dont train that much or cant train because you are sick, injured, busy away etc. If you establish good eating habits and nutrition then these periods wont be so much of a problem for your weight. If you start off by halving your food portions over time your stomach will shrink and you will naturally eat less.

Additionally as you get older you will inevitably exercise less and less strenuously so creating those good nutrition and eating habits will stand you in good stead as you age.

I think you're confusing "good diet" with calorie restriction. Unnecessary calorie restriction is not a "good diet".

A well balanced individual on a good exercise program and eating a healthy diet will surely be able to adjust his food intake during times of less activity.

A well balanced person will eat more when they are more active and eat less when they are less active. It is natural that a person's appetite will increase during active periods.

In theory you are right that you should be able to adjust diet according to activity rate. But my point is that many people including yourself I think stated that they like to work out a lot so that they can eat what they want. In other words they are punishing themselves so that they can eat or drink anything rather than eat the right kind of foods and no too much food. Setting up those sort of habits is the wrong way to go i think.

And i am not advocating calorie restricted diets just stating that most people probably eat twice as much as they need to and something not mentioned here before probably dont chew their food properly.

Just to clear up a few misunderstandings here.

I train often, but I enjoy it. I managed to keep it up for over 36 years so far and I certainly would not call it punishment, however one man's meat is another's poison and others may consider it punishment. I would suggest if anyone feels their exercise program is "punishment" that they stop, reconsider and adjust to something more enjoyable.

Now, on the other hand, not eating or very restricted eating when I feel hungry does feel like punishment and that is a feeling I'd have to deal with all day long. You don't ever get used to that - eventually you're going to crack no matter how disciplined you are. This is one of the reasons why severe calorie restriction never works in the long run - it just can't be maintained.

Your stomach does not shrink - that's a myth.

Calorie restriction without exercise is foolish. They will lose too much muscle and eventually rebound to a fatter level than before they started dieting. It is very important that one monitors body composition when restricting calories.

An aspect not covered much - an intelligent exercise program will make a person feel more alive, more energetic and more healthy. It adds to the quality of life and may extend it too.

I never said that I can eat what I want by training more. I can eat more good food. If I go through a period of less activity I eat less but that's easy because my appetite reduces when my activity levels decrease.

Edited March 12, 2012 by tropo